If humanity can continue on for a century without moving forward or even changing in the slightest then what's the point? And humanity has moved on a bit from 'grovelling in the dirt' so why not roll back the drama.
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Cause lots of people have a different idea of change for example, like should I tear down a old building cause it hasn't changed for a new one? No it's all up to a thing called context and the fact that nasu seems to have not considered that is kinda annoying, It also tramples on certain ideals and conflicts as people have previously said
Kiritsugu for example or friggen amakusu, it makes the conflict pointless in the long run.
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Immortality = complete stagnation in the Nasuverse.
So it really doesn't matter what the World does; you'll basically be dead anyway.
https://forums.sufficientvelocity.com/posts/7506661/
There's also a bit more on the next page.
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I'm still on the side of Salty here, its fucking offensive and spits in the face of the human spirit to aim for a better tomorrow, its fucking dumb that makes no sense in any form of scrutiny whatsover, hell it makes me dislike gaia/alaya even more as it increases its kill count to something fucking ridiculous.
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I mean, I don't disagree. I find that image of immortality nauseating, and I suspect that Nasu is just outright wrong when it comes to people finding purpose without death or even conflict.
*shrug* Not much more to say there. Though I believe @fallacies did clarify that it wasn't Alaya really doing it, so much as the timelines themselves just calcifying for whatever mystic reason. It's still pretty bullshit though.
*shrug* Not much more to say there. Though I believe @fallacies did clarify that it wasn't Alaya really doing it, so much as the timelines themselves just calcifying for whatever mystic reason. It's still pretty bullshit though.
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Immortality doesnt mean people can't die either, if you have biological immortality people can still be stabbed to death. and it makes the struggle of NOTES pointless too as someone pointed out, there just gonna get pruned.
And there is a thing called HOBBIES that people do, lots of people find purpose in that, you know why people struggle? cause they desire a thing called peace, be it for themselves or there people, but since Nasu has his own head stuck so far up his own ass that half his logic makes zero fucking sense and I have to have people put things in laymens terms to understand.
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I mean, Gaia's dead in Notes, and Alaya probably isn't exactly happy either since most of the humans are dead. So... it's questionable if Notes would get pruned?
Iunno. Ask @fallacies.
Iunno. Ask @fallacies.
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I take it you haven't gotten to the next page yet.
The entire point is that humanity will consume itself if it advances too fast, literally unable to keep up with the standards it creates way too quickly. And if it doesn't do anything, it's completely stagnant, leaving the thematic message null (human brilliance is evident in its transience).
https://forums.sufficientvelocity.com/posts/4179383/ [Important for understanding the franchise as a whole; the other three just help showcase it in action.]
https://forums.sufficientvelocity.com/posts/4179004/
https://forums.sufficientvelocity.com/posts/6150062/
https://forums.sufficientvelocity.com/posts/6084426/
The entire point is that humanity will consume itself if it advances too fast, literally unable to keep up with the standards it creates way too quickly. And if it doesn't do anything, it's completely stagnant, leaving the thematic message null (human brilliance is evident in its transience).
https://forums.sufficientvelocity.com/posts/4179383/ [Important for understanding the franchise as a whole; the other three just help showcase it in action.]
https://forums.sufficientvelocity.com/posts/4179004/
https://forums.sufficientvelocity.com/posts/6150062/
https://forums.sufficientvelocity.com/posts/6084426/
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Think of it like this. Complete hells or utopias that cause nothing to significantly change causes the universe to get really bored. It doesn't matter what the people inside the universe want, because the universe doesn't care about their opinions and wants things to actually happen.
It's like if you were watching a show and it reached a point where there were no more conflicts and everything stayed the same. Sure, it'd be nice for the characters, but it'd be boring for the audience, the audience would stop watching, and the life support for the show is cut off.
And for people who may say, "that's not how timeline pruning works at all", I'm just trying to make an extremely simplified explanation of it.
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No no, fuck that , I disagree so heavily with this. its just a author pushing his viewpoint onto a story to the point were it becomes choking and wank worthy, If nasu would stop certain things from being wanked maybe I would agree with you, but no, If humans have to condemn themselves to have there very fucking souls to be shredded in the name of not being stagnent, than fuck him.
I mean, yes. It's the same old tired deathism that gets trotted out every time someone that isn't a serious science fiction writer starts thinking about death, and I'm very tired of it.
Blah, blah, transience is beautiful. Blah, blah, human life is valuable because it is short. Blah blah blah.
I have no patience for such things. I think we will one day look back on our puny lives of a mere century or less and wonder how on earth we could get anything worthwhile done in such a timescale. I think that one day we will reach the stars and wonder just what it was that "death" was, that so plagued our ancestors, because the concept itself has been lost to time. Or perhaps we will not wonder, because on that day thousands of years from now there will still be people alive who were alive today, to tell them of a time when human life was not eternal.
And we will find, then, that all this idolization of the briefness of human life was so much sour grapes, and life really is so much more wonderful when it is long.
Blah, blah, transience is beautiful. Blah, blah, human life is valuable because it is short. Blah blah blah.
I have no patience for such things. I think we will one day look back on our puny lives of a mere century or less and wonder how on earth we could get anything worthwhile done in such a timescale. I think that one day we will reach the stars and wonder just what it was that "death" was, that so plagued our ancestors, because the concept itself has been lost to time. Or perhaps we will not wonder, because on that day thousands of years from now there will still be people alive who were alive today, to tell them of a time when human life was not eternal.
And we will find, then, that all this idolization of the briefness of human life was so much sour grapes, and life really is so much more wonderful when it is long.
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This guy gets it, I'm reminded of a guy apart of a scientific council said something like 'its out duty to die' and than someone replied 'your fucking stockholming death.'
If nasu thinks like that than he should be shown a bunch children in hospital, ones who are dying of terminal illness, I could criticise this 10 ways to sunday.
Existence doesn't care about us, we have to give our own lives meaning, people deserve to have the choice the make the world a better place and try and keep it that way instead of having the controls snapped away and there entire timeline being erased cause its 'stagnant' FUCK THAT, there are many era's in human history I could consider stagnent already and it makes no fucking sense, Like the time when there was no life on Earth, shouldn't the timeline have calcified than? It feels like nasu took a cursory glance at some quantum mechanics stuff and put it in the setting without thinking bout the rest of the setting
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I mean, I don't think he would. That'd be a strawman. He'd put the number of "good years" at some safe number - say, 90, or even 120 - where nobody would have to actually have to confront it. How many 120-year-olds do you know?
It's... it's human. You called it Stockholm syndrome and that's not a bad way of describing it. It's not really something blameworthy, or disgusting. It's just part of how brains work. They change what they can. If that's the world, then the world gets better; but if they can't change the world, then they rewire themselves to not only accept but to be happy with what they have. It's why Buddhism exists.
It's human.
It's just tiresome.
Such things as limits, I won't acknowledge them, they're meaningless.
It's... it's human. You called it Stockholm syndrome and that's not a bad way of describing it. It's not really something blameworthy, or disgusting. It's just part of how brains work. They change what they can. If that's the world, then the world gets better; but if they can't change the world, then they rewire themselves to not only accept but to be happy with what they have. It's why Buddhism exists.
It's human.
It's just tiresome.
Such things as limits, I won't acknowledge them, they're meaningless.
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The fact that organizations like Atlas and Chaldea, as well as civilizations like the Velber, have managed to co develop both successfully (sefar absorbs electrons and spiritrons to grow) makes me thing the two are as diametrically opposed as originally believed.
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Dude, calm down. It's just an element in fiction.
It's not like Nasu's actively trying to attack your views or opinions.
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Sorry its just I dislike when people try to shove views down peoples throats, and this feels like that.
The idea that we should just keep fighting is fucking dumb., I am curious as to how the Japanese fandom views this plotpoint.
They're not really opposed, no, but, mm... Science, to be honest, seems to me to basically be the effect of Alaya's imposing the rules of its Reality Marble, its Common Sense, onto the World. So where rules of magecraft - Gaia and the wider world outside Gaia - and the rules of science come into active, direct conflict, I'd expect science to win unless whatever entity it is can override Alaya as a whole.
(Like Sefar, or a TYPE. >.>)
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Nasuverse Ideas Thread 7 | Page 449fallacies said:
What is Theme
I suspect this will be a long discussion.
Sadly (not really), I'm busy right now.
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Sorry to ask this question, but I feel a bit confused. Isn't that talking about the mental alchemy that leads to the super calculations that Sion uses? I thought the point was that they used that to make super weapons that made up for having weak circuits. Plus since the Atlas entry in Melty Blood always said that they branched out from medieval alchemy, I thought that the western one the Einzberns used magic circuits, while the one practiced in Atlas tried to rely less on them focusing on their thought acceleration.
This whining is getting annoying. It's not like Nasu has anything against immortality, that's basically what Extra is leading up to and the point of the true magics including the third is that it's something that humanity will eventually reach. The issue is that humanity is not mature enough right now but that once we grow up and go scifi to colonize the stars and leave behind our dependency on the planet that we'll be ready.
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Nasu still has no fucking clue what he is talking bout bludflag, dont try to defend him, you can't have the kaleidoscope with 'oh alternate timelines exhaust other timelines.' It makes 0 sense.
Grue
滅亡迅雷
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Except Nasu's not shoving it down people's throats, or stating that they have to accept it as the truth. All he's doing is stating a certain element in the setting and saying it just works that way within the franchise.
To say that a detail within a person's own creation is wrong and shouldn't be even represented is not only extremely rude, but goes into the territory of arrogant when you start mentioning of how it should be.
Even if you don't personally agree with it, please don't start a rant about it. Just state your dislike (to a mild degree) and leave it at that.
Conservation of energy doesn't apply across universes >.>. Unitarity does but there's no evidence that probabilities are quantized, so the multiverse can support an infinite number of universes in theory. Or at least, as many universes as there are real numbers.
And what's so wrong about moving quickly? What makes us not ready now? Why do we have to "earn" immortality, or world peace, or any of the other things? It's not like we "earned" death or war in the first place.
And what's so wrong about moving quickly? What makes us not ready now? Why do we have to "earn" immortality, or world peace, or any of the other things? It's not like we "earned" death or war in the first place.