Two mage/sorcerer ideas

Which game idea would you like to play

  • Magic on the Frontier - Sorcerer

    Votes: 2 50.0%
  • A slip in the Schedule - Mage/Paragon

    Votes: 2 50.0%

  • Total voters
    4
  • Poll closed .
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TheLastOne

Person of impeccable tastes (for destruction)
I'm interested in running a mage or sorcerer game, and I have two different idea for this. I'm probably going to use MnM 2nd edition to run this rather then the actual WoD rules, because I can more easily force people to define what they can do and follow paradigm that way. I'll work with those unfamiliar with this.

I'll also probably run the game itself out of a Slack Channel, because Slack is really easy to use for both chat and form, and does support dice rollers, and even if your unfamiliar it's really easy for you to just join the room I create and not worry about the rest of the service.


  • Setting: It's the mid-1800ish in a world different then our own the Civil War was fought earlier, won more decisively, and the Americas are finally getting back on their feet. It's an age of progress, an age of discovery, and an age of magic. The new America colonies are caught between struggling and thriving. In the more settle town in the far east, industry now grows as rationalists and inventors push back the borders of human knowledge. Out west it's a different story, a strange and nightmare land filled with never imaginable super-predator both physical and and abstract, only kept at bay through involved and massive warding. The east has slowly been pacified, the predictors hunted out, the wild magics tamed, but civilization starts tapering out around Missouri, and while there are Spanish colonies in California, but they got there by sailing. No one has crossed the Continent and lived to tell about it.

    The Settlement Office is in charge of doling out land grants in the unsettled territories, civilizing and taming them. They're in charge of tracking them, making sure they are supplied, and keeping the warding schema up to date. Part bureaucracy, part ranger, and part army.

    You would be a group of circuit magicians and troubleshooters, traveling from homestead to frontier town in the slowing settling territories west of the mammoth river. Circuit magicians are the most independent agents employed by the Settlement Bureau, to supply the settlements with what they need not to fail. You would have a yearly circuit, where you theoretically winter in the east, then hit about thirty/forty settlements during the good parts of the year, though most experienced circuit riders have been forced to winter out west once or twice when everything went to hell.

    You would be young, untested. Many new settlements have just been opened up over criticism that the frontier is expanding too fast, that they're opening people up to dangers faster then the naturalists are mapping them, and the Bureau is hiring.

    Crunch: While this is a world where alliances and outcomes of the early Tradtion/Technocracy fight played out a bit differently, and so magic is a skill... you all would fall into the somewhat exceptional category that would still count you as hedge wizards/enlightened scientists, though not full mages. You would be better then 95% percent of professional practitioners, but you aren't clued in. I also would be willing to let a few changing breeds hide among you if anyone was interested - though you don't have to be a changing breed to be a shape-changer. Skintheft and Berserker are fine and old magical traditions.

  • Setting: The world slipped sometime in the last few years. For all it's hugeness, it's beginnings are rumor and hearsay on the sleeping side of the fence, but now it everywhere. Superheroes are real, or at least there are people with powers now openly walking the day. The scientist started with questions like, and came up with answers. They began with words like "Unexplained" and "Psychic" and replaced them with words like "Consensual Reality" and "Para-physics," and once verboten words like 'Miracle' and 'Fortean' are taking on defined meaning within the scientific community.

    It would be a great move, if anyone was behind it. Instead, even those who would seem to benefit are scrambling to catch up. Spiritualists and Mediums have long complained about how modern society ignored the spiritual, and it seems like that finally reach a breaking point beyond the Gauntlet. The Middle Umbra disassociated and collapsed, dragging the more abstract High Umbra into it. The violence of the event empowered some spirits, destroyed others, and suddenly the idea of fire and the incarnation of fire were on speaking terms.

    With their spiritual reflections in flux, things in physical reality became unmoored. Items without a spirit suddenly became subject to outside influence, objects whose spiritual reflection was caught up or redefined found themselves in flux. It started minor, the same disbelief that wore away at the middle realm suppressing the effects of it's collapse... but ultimately it was to much. Things have become chaotic, and the new Imageria, the intermixed realm of High and Middle Umbra, is strange, active, and breaking through.

    Some in the traditions think now is the time to strike, or begin to think that they don't need the rest of the Nine. Several Houses of the Order of Hermes have left the Council, and the Dreamspeakers are furious... but things are too chaotic. Open war would... well, no one knows where it would go.

    The Technocratic Union isn't taking it any better. What's happening now threatens the integrity of everything they've built. Worse, it brings up questions - if the other dimensions do have a fundamentally symbiotic relationship with reality like the superstitionalists claim, are other claims of theirs right? How will the Time Table recover, what does this mean for the various plans and long term goals of the Union? Is the war between them and the Traditions about to go hot?

    Some parties in the New World Order aren't waiting to find out. Neutralize, minimize, and sanitize, bring things under control with force then work out what's happened.

    You are all part of the middle ground. Whether Tradition or Technocracy, you want to slow things down, to keep the boat stable long enough for the aftershocks of what was at least a minor apocalypses to settle, to let old horrors stirred into wakefulness go back to sleep. You may also, do, also have an agenda of helping sleeper science understand that the Paragon phenomena is best explained by looking towards your own paradigm, rather then the faulty and incomplete explanations of the other traditions/conventions, but first and foremost you feel stability is necessary. You are backed by elements of your own organization that agree, and opposed by those that disagree.

    To that end, you've helped found one of the new registered superteams with other individuals you would normally never work with. Whether or not this alliance is official, or whether you'll be branded a traitor next year when reviews come in... is up in the air. But there are Nephandi to fight, new odd cults to pull up before they become an issue, and troubled waters that need to be soothed with oil. There are bad things taking advantage of the chaos, the uncertainty. Maybe you'll all go back to fighting in ten years, but for now you are all that stands between reality and madness.

    Crunch: You're going to be built on a bit more points then most supers, but with a lower power level - you're not a custom built team of high power mages capable of going toe to toe with a powerful paragon. If you fight like mages, you won't have to. You're good, but you're also what was available and what your superiors could afford to lose on a doomed across the aisle alliance.

    I'm probably going to set you in Huston - your problems can come from either side of the border, and while your superiors feel you have an international mandate, you government of Mexico and the United States government disagree.
 
*Raises Hand*

You've got my interest and I'd be happy to play. I'll note that I'm not that familiar M&M 2e though I have dabbled with 3e also I've never participated in an IRC game before. Mostly because I stick to PbP but I figure it's time to start branching out.
 
*Raises Hand*

You've got my interest and I'd be happy to play. I'll note that I'm not that familiar M&M 2e though I have dabbled with 3e also I've never participated in an IRC game before. Mostly because I stick to PbP but I figure it's time to start branching out.

If many people prefer MnM 3e I can do it as well, it's just that there are a bunch of good supplements for building powers for 2e that work really well for building Mage mages, with a little bit of thought. I've never really been as comfortable with 3e, but it's not I'm not religious about it.
 
If many people prefer MnM 3e I can do it as well, it's just that there are a bunch of good supplements for building powers for 2e that work really well for building Mage mages, with a little bit of thought. I've never really been as comfortable with 3e, but it's not I'm not religious about it.
I don't mind using 2e since it's not that big a deal to me as from what I understand they shouldn't be that different. What Power Level did you have in mind?
 
Mmmm...

How freeform is M&M?

Because the biggest pull of Mage to me is freeform magic. I don't mind being confined to my paradigm, it's more fun that way, but I do mind having to invent spells or pull them out of a point-buy or whatever instead of just coming up with them on the spot.
 
This seems interesting, though my schedule might be shifting in a bit. Going to take a look through the M&M books and see how it all fits together.
 
Mmmm...

How freeform is M&M?

Because the biggest pull of Mage to me is freeform magic. I don't mind being confined to my paradigm, it's more fun that way, but I do mind having to invent spells or pull them out of a point-buy or whatever instead of just coming up with them on the spot.

Depends how you cut it, really. I'm going to mostly make you buy dynamic power with limiters making you follow your paradigm. If you actually go to the mage book each time you cast a spell, and go through all the modifiers, and calculate the successes, and use all the tables... if you do that, it's a wash - building powers and calculating the needed successes for an effect are pretty close in difficulty and work. You can go down the rabbit whole to built quirky effect in MnM, but I'm going to largely put that on the level of storyteller arbitration and/or fluff.

MnM is a superhero setting with a strong power building framework, and you'll be using a pool of points... but for most effects it "1 point per level, caped at 8" or "2 points per level, caped at 8." It's not nearly as narely as Hero or GURPS. I don't think you would have a problem, but ultimately it's your call.
 
Depends how you cut it, really. I'm going to mostly make you buy dynamic power with limiters making you follow your paradigm. If you actually go to the mage book each time you cast a spell, and go through all the modifiers, and calculate the successes, and use all the tables... if you do that, it's a wash - building powers and calculating the needed successes for an effect are pretty close in difficulty and work. You can go down the rabbit whole to built quirky effect in MnM, but I'm going to largely put that on the level of storyteller arbitration and/or fluff.

MnM is a superhero setting with a strong power building framework, and you'll be using a pool of points... but for most effects it "1 point per level, caped at 8" or "2 points per level, caped at 8." It's not nearly as narely as Hero or GURPS. I don't think you would have a problem, but ultimately it's your call.
Doesn't that mean you have to spend xp on new powers every time you want to do something, though?

Like, the great thing about Mage is that I can sit down and design a spell for making lizards put lasers on their heads and run off to strike down my foes, and this is not only relatively easy (Mind 3, Forces 2, maybe Corr 2), but I don't have to permanently spend xp so that I will, now and forever, have "laser lizards" on my character sheet, which I will probably never use again.
 
Doesn't that mean you have to spend xp on new powers every time you want to do something, though?

Like, the great thing about Mage is that I can sit down and design a spell for making lizards put lasers on their heads and run off to strike down my foes, and this is not only relatively easy (Mind 3, Forces 2, maybe Corr 2), but I don't have to permanently spend xp so that I will, now and forever, have "laser lizards" on my character sheet, which I will probably never use again.

No, Dynamic power gives you a pool of power that you can just reassign whenever "X", where "X "starts out "Each turn" but disadvantages can turn into something longer or more involved. If you're creating laser lizards, I'm going to assume a technocrat, and I'm going to treat "Laser Lizards" as a device so you get to reassign tied up points whenever you go to your lab/workplace.

So for instance a Progenitor could pull out a Summon power (create minions), add disadvantages that represent that they have to grab the lizards and graft lazers on their head. So that's minon 8 (16 points), but it takes hours of surgery to turn them into laser lizards because we're a progenitor doing super-science, so lets say five hours. That -7. It also requires access to resources - we aren't conjuring minions from beyond the veil. Having to have live animals to turn into minions will sometime be a problem, so well call that partial limited for -4.

As long as the progenitor has his lizard minion, he has five points tied up. He can later recover those point and put them to better use - the lizard minions aren't long term stable under the consensus without his effort and they die, and he gets those five points back. He could potentially create more lasting minions using more involved modifiers, but if you want something permanent you do have to pay for it, and that's not limited to magic.

You have to pay for becoming rich, or getting a bunch of reliably allies that I can't take away when the plot demands. In this case it would be paying for minions as a background - it's not that he's paying for the power, it's that he's paying for the infrastructure to always know that he has ready laser lizards.

But lets say he needs his points back now for some effort. He can pay a Hero Point, which is sort of like a willpower point but better, to do something beyond him. He pulls out some gadget that he now announces was prepared before hand, or he briefly grasps deeper truths and for one moment discards a foci. He's a technocrat, so he can't keep doing that willy nilly, but when he really needs it he can get those points back now.

Another Technocrat uses Enlightened Skills instead. He has a Secret Agent Super Skills. He doesn't need to go back to the lab to reassign his points, can literally do it turn to turn, but all his effects must be subtle and look like skills. He can pick up tails, parkour up a three store building in a moment, and ricochet bullets off walls to hit a man around the corner, but he's not making laser lizards with those skills.

And yes, you can have both the skill building devices, and the super-skills, and NWO psionics, and all of them will have diferent things they can be invested into, and different conditions for recovering them so that you can redeploy them to new effect. You either have to be following your paradigm, spending hero points, or buy dynamic powers without limits which are very expressive since they represent true enlightenment such that you've started discarding foci.



You can buy individual powers if you want to, to represent things like Iteration X cybernetics, or an Ecstatic's expanded senses, but mostly you have dynamic ever changing powers that you use to build tool kits to solve your current problems. So no, you can't buy 'Laser Lizards' as a power unless you can convince me that's some sort of permanent thing welded to you, such that you don't even have to try when you want to create laser lizards.
 
Mm. Maybe, then. Still sounds like a lot of work for very simple effects, though. And there'd need to be mechanical interaction between powers and resetting powers, because "I saw this coming with Time 2 so I made laser lizards in advance" is totally valid casting space.
 
Mm. Maybe, then. Still sounds like a lot of work for very simple effects, though. And there'd need to be mechanical interaction between powers and resetting powers, because "I saw this coming with Time 2 so I made laser lizards in advance" is totally valid casting space.

Sure - and if you do that alot then you simply have a slightly more expensive power to represent that, and it's not one direction. You can have a power where you can pretty freely assign your point, but have to wait awhile to free, or you can build a power where you need time in both directions.

As I said, it's not really any more narly then using all the tables. Damage is the Damage power, Mind Control is Mind Control, and so on. I'm having trouble thinking of anything that I've seen done that would require any careful or clever building that isn't basically out of the box.
 
@TheLastOne
Which Sorceror book will Frontier use? Because there are different Paths (and some of the ones that are the same work differently) between Original and Revised.

Since I'm using Mutants and Masterminds instead of actually using the Storyteller System, I'll be more using the various groups like The Cult of Mercury, The Order of the Golden Fly, and the Silver Portal. Though as a second tier group, sorcerers also get caught up in the machinations of others in a way Mages do not - while not all meetings are hostile, there is something of the cosmopolitan nature here, and the politics of the Fae and the groves of the Fera could impinge upon your duty. There are people that grew with Mankind, and those who gird the borders against Man, though which is which is not always clear.
 
Since I'm using Mutants and Masterminds instead of actually using the Storyteller System, I'll be more using the various groups like The Cult of Mercury, The Order of the Golden Fly, and the Silver Portal. Though as a second tier group, sorcerers also get caught up in the machinations of others in a way Mages do not - while not all meetings are hostile, there is something of the cosmopolitan nature here, and the politics of the Fae and the groves of the Fera could impinge upon your duty. There are people that grew with Mankind, and those who gird the borders against Man, though which is which is not always clear.
So for the Frontier if we wanted to be a changing breed what would that entail?
 
Since I'm using Mutants and Masterminds instead of actually using the Storyteller System, I'll be more using the various groups like The Cult of Mercury, The Order of the Golden Fly, and the Silver Portal. Though as a second tier group, sorcerers also get caught up in the machinations of others in a way Mages do not - while not all meetings are hostile, there is something of the cosmopolitan nature here, and the politics of the Fae and the groves of the Fera could impinge upon your duty. There are people that grew with Mankind, and those who gird the borders against Man, though which is which is not always clear.
I misunderstood what was happening, and thought only the Mage one was being done with M&M, because you found the current Sphere System bad. If they're both being done that way, though...
I know absolutely nothing about the system in question, so I'll probably just lurk if I'm able to, but I would like to know how you'd implement the Struggling Awake Merit in it. It's something I assumed wouldn't be available, because it uses Mage Spheres and you don't like those, but if we're using M&M for the Sorcerors anyway...
 
I misunderstood what was happening, and thought only the Mage one was being done with M&M, because you found the current Sphere System bad. If they're both being done that way, though...
I know absolutely nothing about the system in question, so I'll probably just lurk if I'm able to, but I would like to know how you'd implement the Struggling Awake Merit in it. It's something I assumed wouldn't be available, because it uses Mage Spheres and you don't like those, but if we're using M&M for the Sorcerors anyway...

Struggling awake lets you randomly briefly try and do anything - which is something that normal mages can't normally do. Discarding Foci and Paradigm is a big deal. As a sorcerer you can have a moment of inspiration and enlightenment by spending a Hero Point on extra effort. If it's something that happens to you a lot you can represent it by having lots of hero points. If yours are extra dramatic, you might have the Untapped Potential feat that means your extra effort goes farther, or the Holding Back disadvantage to represent the terrible consequences of you pushing yourself and letting go.
 
Interested in both, though the Frontier one a bit more than the Superhero one.

The problem is that I am unfamiliar with the rules.
 
Interested in both, though the Frontier one a bit more than the Superhero one.

The problem is that I am unfamiliar with the rules.

Mutants and Masterminds is built on a very stripped down version of D20, built to be cinematic and abstract rather then nity gritty - there are only three heath levels, instead of hit points, bruised, staggered, and unconscious for non-lethal combat, and injured, disabled, and dying for lethal combat. While the power aspect make things a bit more complex, I'm willing to build your powers for you if you familiarize yourself with the basic rules - you can ignore the powers chapter entirely if you want.

If you've ever played d20, you can almost step right in. If you haven't... the rules are still stripped down enough that it doesn't take a lot. I'm also writing up some rules bits right now, including what I expect spheres to look like.
 
Paradox and sample spheres
Since I'm shifting rule systems, I'm going to use this point to show how various bits work when talking about mages.

Doubt

When a Sorcerer or Mage is shaken as a result of an interaction skill (primarily Intimidate and Bluff in conjunction with the Taunt feat, see M&M, page 64), the player must make a Concentration skill check for the character to maintain any powers, just as if the character had been stunned (see Duration, M&M, page 70).

This affects concentration and sustained duration powers, just like being stunned. It also affects continuous powers, which automatically return once the character is no longer shaken, or succeeds on a Concentration check, whichever comes first.

Paradox

The Wild Surges rules are uses to represent Paradox, with a handful of changes. For those who don't have the rules, the changed version is outlined below.

Paradox may occur under the following conditions -

  • A mage uses extra effort to enhance a power beyond their paradigm, whether to discard a focus or bend the rules that they follow
  • A mage perform a vulgar effect.
  • A mage perform an effect before witnesses that credibility - this can either be a vulgar effect, or the result of piling on too many coincidental effects too quickly.
  • A mage rolls a natural 1 on any roll involving an active use of a power (including attack rolls, and skill, ability, or power checks). This does not apply to passive uses of powers, such as Protection.
When any of the conditions are met, the player makes a Will saving throw, with a Difficulty Class of 10 plus the power's level plus the characters paradox points.

In cases where multiple trigger conditions apply, each additional condition increases the DC of the Will saving throw by +2. A character is only required to make one Will save per round to avoid paradox, regardless of the number of conditions.

A successful Will save means no paradox, but the character gains a paradox point. A character may spend Quintessence to avoid gaining a paradox point. A failed Will save means backlash occurs. Players may spend hero points to improve Will saves and avoid backlash.

When Backlash occurs, three different things might happen.

  • The Storyteller may build an effect with power points equal to 3 * (the level of the power that caused the backlash + as many paradox points as the storyteller feels like spending).
  • The player must make a Fortitude saving throw against a lethal damage bonus equal to half the power's level + as many paradox points as the storyteller feels like spending. Players can spend hero points normally on the save against a damaging backlash.
  • The character gains Taint, at (power's level + as many paradox points as the storyteller feels like spending)/5. This can take the form of Paradox Flaws or Quiet.

Taint gives character addition temporary drawback. The system isn't complicated, but I'm not reprinting it here because frankly it isn't really needed on the players end. You get more more flaw for every level of taint you have, and they go away at appropriate times.

Accumulated paradox can be bleed off the normal ways.

Making Magic

Sample Spheres as Powers

NWO
OODA Training (Correspondence)
Duration: Concentration, Action: Standard, Cost: 5 points per level
(Variable Power: Multiple powers of any type or descriptor at once. Limitations: Duration -1, Limited -1(superskills))

Each level in OODA Training lets and agent become more aware of their surrounding and the options this opens up. Each level give point points per level to invest in skills and powers to represent greater awareness and options, from low levels of ESP, to using smell as a targeting sense, to having sent a call out five minutes ago for a black helicopter to pick you up. You might causally scale a building, but you would do it by finding pretnatual awareness of options and paths, rather then sheer agility. Staying aware take constant concentration.

Field Operations Training (Forces)
Duration: Sustained, Action: Standard, Cost: 6 points per level
(Variable Power: Multiple powers of any type or descriptor at once. Limitations: Limited -1(superskills))

Each level in Field Operations Training represents greater investment in efficacy of action. Each level give point points per level to invest in skills and powers to represent greater ability to physically act like a secret agent, from punching through a structural weak point, to always having a gun hidden on your person, to ricochet a bullet off the wall, to noticing your being followed by the tremor of their feet. You might causally scale a building in a display of agility that would put Jackie Chan to shame.

Order of Hermes
Seventh Seal of the descending Aeon (Time)
Duration: Sustained, Action: An hour of Rituals, Cost: 5 points per level - 7 (Min 1 point)
(Variable Power: Multiple powers of any type or descriptor at once. Limitations: Action -1, Check Required -1 (Intimidate). Drawback: Action - 4, Full Power -1, Disruption -1, Power Loss -1)
You have a contract with a spirit that transcends time, and through bargains and ritual threats you have arranged for it to act on your behalf. You must bargain for each effect in advance, must succeed in an Intimidation check DC 10 + half the affected power points to make the change, and each such change requires an hour of ritual and threat as you rearrange your gifts. You can't ask for a smaller favor then you arranged in advance - the spirit give you what your bargained for, not what you want at the time. And if anything goes wrong, the spirit has a tendency to simply force through an effect that no longer makes sense in context, to unknown effect. You must speak to call on your ally.

In return, you have grasped one of the pillars of causality, shown the supremacy of man. What need you for petty tools when will and ambition suffice.

Academical Engines(Matter)
Duration: Sustained, Action: Standard, Cost: 6
(Variable Power: Multiple powers of any type or descriptor at once as a device)
You are an alchemist with a never ending supply of powders, poultices, concentrates, and enzymes. You have half stable philosophers stones and universal solvents. Five points per level of devices appropriate to alchemy and the Sphere of Matter, whatever you want. But you have to have each device before you can recycle it for points, and people can and will take them away from you and use them against you.
 
Vote totals are -
  1. Magic on the Frontier - Sorcerer

    2 votes(sv) + 3 votes(sb)

  2. A slip in the Schedule - Mage/Paragon

    2 votes(sv) + 1 vote(sb
So it's Magic on the Frontier. I'll throw up a recruitment thread tomorrow or Tuesday with more details.
 
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