I wouldn't go so far as to say that. We probably want to have at least two pelts ready to go for when the next trade ship arrives. Assuming it's a yearly occurrence, we have three turns to obtain two additional pelts (since we're using one this turn for Winter Clothing). That's a fairly tight timeframe.
Try to survive the Winter: A planquest in Fantasy Colonial America
- Thread starter OldShadow
- Start date
- Fantasy Alt. History
In terms of trade, I think we'll be fine even if we don't have a lot of pelts to sell.
With the barrels we can now probably sell food, and booze once we make it.
And by next year the tobacco will have grown enough that we will have a surplus to sell.
So I wouldn't worry about lacking things to sell.
With the barrels we can now probably sell food, and booze once we make it.
And by next year the tobacco will have grown enough that we will have a surplus to sell.
So I wouldn't worry about lacking things to sell.
So @OldShadow what's the the freeds actions this summer.
Chimeraguard
We do deserve to exist.
I don't think we get to know the Freed's actions until they happen, and even then only if our people get to see the direct effects.
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Food's not worth the cost of transportation across the Atlantic, nor is mundane booze, and we don't want to sell something as likely to cause a colonization rush as tobacco.
No, but sailors need to eat, and they do love their booze. So they should still buy some of it.
And the Spanish (and therefore the rest of Europe) already know of Tobacco for at least 50 years, so there's not going to be a massive rush and there's already a market for the stuff.
Chimeraguard
We do deserve to exist.
Hmm, a brief (very brief, as in copied the first thing after a google search) about what 17th century sailors had to eat:
Actually, speaking of booze, now that we're going to have some degree of contact with Europe, we probably want to figure out how we're going to manage the Winter Walkers being exposed to alcohol, since that was a big issue IRL.
My current thought is that we want to get the government more formally established so it can properly enforce laws about it, keep morale high so people don't drown their sorrows in ale, and maybe see about there setting things up so there's other recreational activities than just drinking.
...Yeah, we could probably sell food to the sailors themselves. Though would a single ship purchase it in bulk quantities enough to be worth trade "points"?
Actually, speaking of booze, now that we're going to have some degree of contact with Europe, we probably want to figure out how we're going to manage the Winter Walkers being exposed to alcohol, since that was a big issue IRL.
My current thought is that we want to get the government more formally established so it can properly enforce laws about it, keep morale high so people don't drown their sorrows in ale, and maybe see about there setting things up so there's other recreational activities than just drinking.
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ConfusedCanuck
Where did it all go wrong?
- Location
- Neverland
[X] Plan Hunt Preparations
I think it would be worth at least 1 point.
I think it would be fine. After all, we are not making any hard liquors like whisky. Our first batches will be of relatively low alcohol content beer and wine. And with Union's cultures so thouroughly mixed, I think social pressure will be enough to keep anyone from going overboard.
Lurking_Badger
Cheese Enjoyer
- Location
- Wisconsin
It also makes sense for a ship to only carry enough food for cross the ocean, if they know they can resupply at the colonies. Traders want to fill their hulls with as much goods and people as possible to make a profit. Also, preserved food is a bit expensive in Europe.
Currently, we are still sort of breaking even on food production, but with that will change in the future. America is incredibly fertile and filled with animals compared to Europe. It turns out that hundreds of years of exploitive land use and war does some damage on the land. If things go in the same direction as IRL, we'll have a major food surplus in a couple years. We'll probably be importing barrels of salt and exporting barrels of dried meat.
A bit on the historical side, while food made up only about 30% of the value of exports, it made up more than 50% of the volume of exports. In many parts of Colonial America food production was pretty much the whole economy. For example, 1700s Massachusetts's economy was over 50% fish exports with other foodstuff being about 15-20%.
Interesting note, Europeans really prefer a more mild and sweet tobacco. The stuff that Union is planting right now is going to be the harsher and stronger sort. Tobacco only really took off in America when John Rolfe (husband of Pocahontas) brought the seeds of a more appealing variety with him to Jamestown in 1612. These seeds were from Spanish Trinidad, and the Spanish would have executed him if he was caught smuggling them to the English.
I wouldn't count on this being the same since tobacco seems to have some connection to the supernatural.
But if that's the case then we can probably steal some from the Spanish/buy them of the corsairs the crown wants us to resupply.
Chimeraguard
We do deserve to exist.
I'd actually say we've gotten ahead on food production. We managed to exit the last Winter with 3 seasons' worth of food supply, and this turn our food supply went up to 4 from 3 last turn. I presume from the combo of turkeys + chickens plus probably getting a food result on "what did our The Old Ways Trait give us" last turn.
That we managed to gain food during the Sowing Season without actually putting much effort into it is what makes me say we're probably secure enough to start trading some to the Shepherds.
Lurking_Badger
Cheese Enjoyer
- Location
- Wisconsin
Good point. It might be that we'll have the choice of planting the two different types of tobacco for different purposes. We plant the mild tobacco for trade and the strong tobacco for magic. Of course, the real magic of tobacco is nicotine.
We always have the option of hunting game out in the wilds to get more food, which we are actually doing this turn. That reminds me that we should really set up those paths at some point to get that sweet bonus of gunpowder components and iron with our wild actions.
That might be changing though. We are in much closer communication with the Freed than we used to be.
We might get one point of trade if the entire crew orders a bunch of food and alcohol, but I wouldn't bet on it.
That supernatural connection is part of what worries me. We don't want to trade anything occult to Europe. That's just asking for trouble.
As for the Spanish cultivar of tobacco, I wouldn't be surprised if the more pleasant taste is a result of it being cursed. Seriously, it's a sacred herb that's being treated as a commodity by folks willing and able to use forced labor to grow it in a very supernatural locale. The words "bad juju" don't even begin to cover it.
Even if it's not cursed, or if said curse can be undone, obtaining the seeds won't be all that easy. The Crown isn't asking us to turn Deadport into Tortuga or Port Royal. They're asking us to support a single raid against the Spanish Treasure Fleet in 3.5-5.5 years. Those guys probably won't bother to steal some tobacco, nor should they. Their task will be hard enough without adding side missions.
Now we could do the job ourselves, but I'm rather reluctant to antagonize New Spain more than absolutely necessary. We have enough problems with Winter. It doesn't take a genius to figure out that the ship crewed by the dead probably originated from the enemy settlement who is uncomfortably close to the dead.
Were gonna have problems with the spanish either way since we are gonna be used as a resupply base by cosiars to attack spanish gold fleets. I am not intresnted really in raiding the spanish for a more appeaking form of tobbac I'd be much more intrensted in using our dead galleon to go free some slaves or something
No reason we can't do both. After all, tobacco is grown in slave plantations.
There's a point where caution becomes paranoia. Not everything in the americas is super cursed.
Compared to the literal tons of definitely, 100% cursed gold entering the european market I don't think people are going to notice if the tobacco makes you more suceptible to seeing ghosts.
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
They're not.
First, because the Shepards may lack the art of tanning, and the hides of whatever animals they herd may not be suitable for conversion into good quality leather. Second, because pelts, specifically, refer to the unaltered animal skin with its fur or hair still attached, and we have a lot more use for (and resale value for) actual fur than we do for the skin of just any old animal.
I mean if we get some hurrah I guess? more diveristy in crops is a plus but I don't want to activetly pursue getting it beyond picking it up while doing other stuff
the voot looks pretty decisive, hopefully we roll a nat 100 on the dogs so we can get it done and we can have very very very good boys instead of very very good boys
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
I think it won't be such a big problem here.
A lot of what made alcohol a problem for the Native Americans in real life was the social context in which they got ahold of it. They weren't just sharing beer with white colonists. By the time the natives were trading heavily with the settlers in alcohol, said settlers were already making distilled liquor one of their main trade goods. Since you can use distillation to turn a surplus of edible grain into something much more transportable and storable and thus sellable. And the traders selling liquor by the barrelful to the natives had very little reason to be socially responsible about it, or to help the natives navigate the consquences of their drinking. Meanwhile, all this was happening in the context of the native societies being constantly trapped in an adversarial relationship with whites in general, steadily losing ground and having many problems that would catalyze ongoing social collapse. The firewater addictions were in many ways a symptom, not a cause, of the general problem.
It's not that Native Americans are ultra-super-duper vulnerable to alcohol. Maybe a little more but not absurdly so. It's that distilled liquor, mass-manufactured by societies with much greater populations and farming bases and sold to them cheap, created a drug epidemic not all that different from any number of other drug epidemics throughout history.
But the thing about drug epidemics is that they start around hard drugs that are strongly addictive and can badly impair performance, both. There's no counterpart involving marijuana or coffee and there's a reason for that.
I could be pretty wrong, but I think a lot of that exported salt fish was going to other colonies, particularly the cash crop slave plantations.
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- Location
- Spain
I know the difference between pelt and leather...
But in this specific context, I was asking if "meat and animals" meant "animal products and living animals" the QM said it did, but Hunter531 still had doubts, and I just elaborated that since animal products include meat, bones, teeth, hair, wool, fur, horns, etc. if we get leather we are also getting furs (it´s is the skin of the animal all the same).
[X] Plan Hunt Preparations
Lurking_Badger
Cheese Enjoyer
- Location
- Wisconsin
A horrible bonus is that alcohol is one of the drugs that can easily kill you if you try to quit using it. The body becomes physically unable to function without alcohol. The big killers are seizures and delirium tremens, which are in addition to all of the the vomiting, anxiety, hallucinations, fever, and sweating. It is a horrible way to go.
As a person living in one of the states with the highest alcoholism rates, know your limit and have someone sober to look after you.
You are mostly correct. A lot of the salted fish that the American Colonies produced was shipped to the West Indies and South America to feed the slaves and native people. The cash crops were just so valuable that it was better to trade for food then grow it. Even some of the food that was grown was too valuable to let people eat it, like cacao.
Of course, there is a bit of a caveat to this. The higher quality salted fish was mostly shipped to Europe for the Catholic population. From what I understand, most abstain from eating red meat on Fridays and during Lent. There are some that don't eat it on Wednesdays, specific holy days, or even certain times of the day. My grandma was Catholic, but I'm not so IDK the specifics.