Remove ads

Traveller, The Rise of Empire: A Naval Design, Procurement and Command Quest

Reader mode
4WheelSword said:
Uhhh, I don't feel great with just two votes? Gonna give it a couple hours.


Not really. An FSS with plenty of supplies and a repair team is the closest, or if the ship is small enough you could put it aboard a conveyor to bring back to Home for yard repairs.


Don't worry, I wont screw you by making it take additional weeks.

The intention is that you will build a station in Heimdall for Hermosan diplomants and the Hermosans will build one in Equus for Home diplomats, according to an identical brief.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
hmm, we should look into that. In addition to the utility of being able to repair ships in the field instead of having to write them off, "big hollow tube with some workshops and a jump drive" could be useful for things like transporting emergency supplies, large landing contingents, or monolithic defensive stations

In light of us not having something we can use to help with repairs, [X] OPLAN: Quick Clot
 
Trying to grasp our yeardspace situation. So, If I correctly understand, we have:

1. 9,750Dtons yards in Home, which are our biggest (and this is a max size of a ship we can build at the moment. (Non-modular ship).)
2. Rest of the tonnage, 18,150 - 9,750 = 8,400Dtons are in Cassalon. Cassalon in fact has two separate yards, one much bigger ex-Junta's, and other smaller, ex-Dynast. We used 1kton of Dynast yardspace at one point, and it was a significant par of it. So probably the ex-Dynast yards are aront 2kDtons, and ex-Junta's are 6,400Dtons then.

we thankfully do not track which yards are building what, but it could be a usefull ballpark of "what are our most important targets, and how much damage some imagined enemy could inflict if they destroy one of the yards"

3. The Xyri yards, described as "small", exist. We had an option to get to control them during our articles of war event, but had chosen only basing rights in Xyri. So apparently they are still "gettable"? (How much is "small"? Don't know, and I haven't found a description of Xyri ships. Probably 500/1000/2000Dtons, I'd guess.)
 
Remove ads
11-7: Enemy at the Gates
  • Threadmarks
    • Adhoc vote count started by 4WheelSword on Oct 9, 2024 at 7:17 AM, finished with 19 posts and 6 votes.
    • [X] OPLAN: Quick Clot
      [X] It should host an FLF contingent.
      [X] It should be able to source and refine its own fuel.
      [X] Dispatch a task force, consisting of our Expeditionary force and the best signals intelligence craft we have to serve as long-range reconnaissance. Broadcast messages on all known frequencies stating our peaceful intent to support their repair and survival efforts, but be prepared for any eventuality, including a direct FLF boarding action.
    Click to expand...


    Are there any further modifications to this plan that the HSWS would like to propose? It should host an FLF contingent. It should be able to source and refine its own fuel.
    What is the appropriate response? Dispatch a task force, consisting of our Expeditionary force and the best signals intelligence craft we have to serve as long-range reconnaissance. Broadcast messages on all known frequencies stating our peaceful intent to support their repair and survival efforts, but be prepared for any eventuality, including a direct FLF boarding action.

    Available Budget: 849.239MCr
    Current Dockyard Usage: 16,400Dtons
    Current Pilot Usage: 81/80


    Diplomatic Outreach
    The plans for the Diplomatic station are presented to HSWS high command in the mid-to-late months of 17y, a meticulous redesign of the MDS that utilises the same hull-form but contains a vastly different internal layout. A full third of the platform is given over to comfortable accommodations for the crew, an FLF platoon and a full hundred additional visitors who can rest in relative comfort. This includes the largest biosphere ever built into a space platform, a series of disparate vegetation clusters and bio-vats providing not just oxygen, but also fresh produce for those aboard.

    This relatively small station can host a single CFA or a trio of Interstellar Cruisers at any one time, and is capable of hosting the Hermosan Combat Platforms as designed, according to what we saw of them. All it needs now is a stamp of approval and yard space being assigned to its construction.
    ​

    What does the Senior Staff make of it:
    [ ] This is what was requested. Lay one down at the next available opportunity.
    [ ] Actually, there are some minor modifications - write in changes.
    [ ] No, this is awful. It should actually be - write in a new spec.

    Deep Hope
    The Expeditionary Force under Vice-Marshall Matxalen Gebara deploys on its first operation since the change of command staff. The HSWS Segomo leads six other ships on the one-jump deployment to deep hope with messages of kindness and peace. They depart on 17y08m01w for their week long transit through jump space and the best wishes of the HSWS go with them.

    Post-Action Report, Vice Marshall Matxalen Gebara
    I was able to bring my forces out of jump space in formation and within ten hours of each other. From the first arrival (HSWS Neto) to the last we transmitted pre-assigned messages of goodwill to the unknown craft and standard log exchanges with the Deep Hope Mining Station. There was no reply from either.

    Though we emerged from jump space well within sensor ranges our scans were only able to detect the mining station. We attempted several times to detect the unknown contact and though we could see it docked on visual sensors, we could not acquire it with any other systems - Radar and Lidar both assured us that either there was only the station, or that there was a void between us and the station. We can only assume that the unknown vessel was running some sort of passive stealth system. I ordered my crews to action stations and, with the last arrival, began the short descent towards the station.

    It was at this moment that the enemy - and I feel confident calling them that - chose to act. The Deep Hope Mining Station was either targeted with close-in weapon systems or pre-placed charges were detonated, cutting the modular station into several pieces. Simultaneously, the enemy vessel activated its drives and began an erratic series of escape and evasion manoeuvres supplemented by a chemical rocket that they - you'll pardon the euphemism - used to 'goose' their course to retain a vector towards the jump limit.

    We attempted to engage, but between the inability to get a reliable sensor reading and the enemy ships ability to almost keep pace with our munitions, we were not able to effectively create the conditions that would force then enemy to turn and engage us. They jumped away and we presume from their exit trajectory that they were heading towards the Northern systems though that is, of course, uncomfirmed.

    Recovery efforts at the Deep Hope Mining Stations demonstrate casualties both before and during the enemy ships escape. Fourteen of the thirty-nine crew have been recovered alive with various injuries and other maladies. It would seem that the Mining Station was taken under enemy control shortly after the departure of the Courier. Debriefings for all recovered crew will follow, and I will be posting two cruisers on rotation in Deep Hope in case of the enemies return.

    -

    The above report was filed after the return of part of the Expeditionary Force, circa 17y09m00w.

    What is the HSWS immediate response?
    [ ] Demand additional resources from Home - what for?
    [ ] Deploy forces - where?
    [ ] Call upon your allies - to do what?
    [ ] Other - write in.
    What is the focus of the debriefing of the DSMS crew?
    [ ] What can we learn about the enemy crew?
    [ ] What can we learn about the enemy ship?
    [ ] What can we learn about where they came from?
    [ ] Other - write in

    Please present votes as plans. Voting opens at .
     
  • Threadmarks
    • Perhaps a little more paranoia about letting unknown ships dock with Home's stations is in order.

    It's clearly much higher TL, but at least it wasn't such a high TL that the one ship felt like it could take on the entire Task Force.
     
    Last edited:
    THE RADIOACTIVE DEATH-BEAMS WOULD HAVE... ASSISTED WITH THIS
    A bit more seriously, this ships is either almost as fast as our torpedoes, or worse case, as our missiles (we should confirm which). Some sort of beam weapons, whose beams move at the speed of light would probably be better it this engagement.
    But we don't have non-radioactive such weapons, which is mightily inonvenient.

    C_Z said:
    A MINEFIELD WOULD HAVE STOPPED THIS
    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...

    We DO have the ship that was supposed to be our minelayer now. So we SHOULD start at least war-gaming the minefileds.

    4WheelSword said:
    Demand additional resources from Home - what for?
    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...

    We can run minefield experiments. And build defensive fighters for our planets. Those aren't much, but streamlined fighters that start from planet surface would not need us building some sort of carrier ship or station for them.

    @4WheelSword, would we also need to allocate yardspace for such fighters? Or could they be build planet-side, on some existing facilities?

    We also need to transmit this to Xyri - even if our dedicated diplomatic ship is not available, we do have some other diplomats. Maybe we can get more integration.

    Also our Aslan embassy should ask Aslan if they have met such ships and know who use them.

    In a pinch we still can hire some ships from Aslan, too, on the additional funds that we want to request from Home's government. Maybe not yet, but we have this option.
     
    Josiah said:
    THE RADIOACTIVE DEATH-BEAMS WOULD HAVE... ASSISTED WITH THIS
    A bit more seriously, this ships is either almost as fast as our torpedoes, or worse case, as our missiles (we should confirm which). Some sort of beam weapons, whose beams move at the speed of light would probably be better it this engagement.
    But we don't have non-radioactive such weapons, which is mightily inonvenient.



    We DO have the ship that was supposed to be our minelayer now. So we SHOULD start at least war-gaming the minefileds.



    We can run minefield experiments. And build defensive fighters for our planets. Those aren't much, but streamlined fighters that start from planet surface would not need us building some sort of carrier ship or station for them.

    @4WheelSword, would we also need to allocate yardspace for such fighters? Or could they be build planet-side, on some existing facilities?

    We also need to transmit this to Xyri - even if our dedicated diplomatic ship is not available, we do have some other diplomats. Maybe we can get more integration.

    Also our Aslan embassy should ask Aslan if they have met such ships and know who use them.

    In a pinch we still can hire some ships from Aslan, too, on the additional funds that we want to request from Home's government. Maybe not yet, but we have this option.
    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...

    The issue with beam weapons is I think we never even got into range. We assembled at a distance, then as soon as we started burning in they ran off. Lightspeed lag combined with their stealth making ranging difficult complicates shooting at them.

    The reason a minefield is useful IMO is that they would be in the middle of it when they blew up the station, at which point they can't outrun the torpedoes (they're coming from every direction), and the targeting is as simple as "fly towards the bright drive plume".

    I'm not sure how helpful fighters would be if they have high TL point defence...
     
    Considering most of our warships are running tl9 or prototype tl10 sensors at best (and we haven't started sensor refits), I don't think it's that much higher tech than us. Possibly just stealth coated.

    Seems like its doing something similar to our strikecraft where it has a reserve reaction drive to help boost it out of the system at something like thrust 8 or 9. Means they can close or flee quickly but we can engage them if we need to, I think.

    I think asking the Aslan if they've encountered similar ships is worth while. We may want to consider for a rebuilt Deep Hope system to include additional defensive armaments and an increased FLF force.

    Debrief wise, all of those questions are pertinent. Not sure which would be best.
     
    Rat King said:
    Considering most of our warships are running tl9 or prototype tl10 sensors at best (and we haven't started sensor refits), I don't think it's that much higher tech than us. Possibly just stealth coated.

    Seems like its doing something similar to our strikecraft where it has a reserve reaction drive to help boost it out of the system at something like thrust 8 or 9. Means they can close or flee quickly but we can engage them if we need to, I think.

    I think asking the Aslan if they've encountered similar ships is worth while. We may want to consider for a rebuilt Deep Hope system to include additional defensive armaments and an increased FLF force.

    Debrief wise, all of those questions are pertinent. Not sure which would be best.
    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...
    Didn't we send our best electronic warfare ship with them? Chances are that's prototype TL10 sensors, and based on how the stealth was described as resisting tracking so thoroughly, I suspect TL11-12.

    Based on them running when we arrived, though, they're definitely weak enough that we can pose a threat to them. If we can somehow trap a ship with a numerically superior force, we could probably beat them.

    I agree with the Aslan thing.

    For future stations, we should probably standardize on a common design and throw them everywhere. IIRC there are (modest) benefits to that kind of mass production? We've also seen that the assets you have to fight the engagement with are the ones you have in-system when the enemy decides to show up (and vice versa), so if we're serious about extending our influence, that means local defense units that can repel weird raids like this one; if they're permanently stationed in the system, then we can forego expensive jump drives and limited pilots.
     
    C_Z said:
    Didn't we send our best electronic warfare ship with them? Chances are that's prototype TL10 sensors, and based on how the stealth was described as resisting tracking so thoroughly, I suspect TL11-12.

    Based on them running when we arrived, though, they're definitely weak enough that we can pose a threat to them. If we can somehow trap a ship with a numerically superior force, we could probably beat them.

    I agree with the Aslan thing.

    For future stations, we should probably standardize on a common design and throw them everywhere. IIRC there are (modest) benefits to that kind of mass production? We've also seen that the assets you have to fight the engagement with are the ones you have in-system when the enemy decides to show up (and vice versa), so if we're serious about extending our influence, that means local defense units that can repel weird raids like this one; if they're permanently stationed in the system, then we can forego expensive jump drives and limited pilots.
    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...

    Our "best" electronics ship might actually be a CFA or Enhanced Frigate, with new sensors (TL 9 or TL 10). The DSS/ISS have older sensors, unfortunately.

    Yeah, defensive stations (and mines) are the best "fast reaction" force, but at best they'll dissuade a smash and grab, if someone really wants to roll in heavy a single station won't be able to stop them. To a certain extent we're going to have to maintain a large fleet in being within a jump or two of anything we really consider important to defend.
     
    C_Z said:
    I'm not sure how helpful fighters would be if they have high TL point defence...
    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...

    Eh.
    1. More than having nothing at all. We of course have something for defence of our domestic systems - task force fleets and MDS, but having a bit more spaceframes able to throw some missiles (or torps; or intercept some missiles/torps) is still beneficial. Maybe we can consider a planetside "gunship" with a single beam laser barbette - there is no point in limiting the size of planet-based fighters, unlike carrier-based.
    2. This particular ship relied on its stealth and high speed to evade/outrun our missiles/torps long enough for them to jump away. So maybe they were not that sure of their point defences.

    4WheelSword said:
    This relatively small station can host a single CFA or a trio of Interstellar Cruisers at any one time, and is capable of hosting the Hermosan Combat Platforms as designed, according to what we saw of them. All it needs now is a stamp of approval and yard space being assigned to its construction.
    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...

    Is there any point that this station uses Prototype TL10 sensors, rather than production TL10s? Like, "we don't want to show Hermosans the designs that we've lifted from the Glaive", or it's cheaper?
     
    Last edited:
    Rat King said:
    Our "best" electronics ship might actually be a CFA or Enhanced Frigate, with new sensors (TL 9 or TL 10). The DSS/ISS have older sensors, unfortunately.

    Yeah, defensive stations (and mines) are the best "fast reaction" force, but at best they'll dissuade a smash and grab, if someone really wants to roll in heavy a single station won't be able to stop them. To a certain extent we're going to have to maintain a large fleet in being within a jump or two of anything we really consider important to defend.
    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...
    Yeah, it's definitely not something that we can wholly rely on, but these kinds of hit-and-run raids could really screw us over. Keep in mind that, realistically, someone can jump into orbit near a planet, blow something up, and jump out before a fleet in the same system can get there, if my napkin math is right. If we've distributed our economy over ~4 systems, and 3-4 bodies in each system, then we are very vulnerable to attacks by a single ship jumping in and out. Dissuading attacks like this are IMO very important.

    The defensive stations aren't there to utterly win every fight, we can't afford that. Instead, their purpose is to:
    1. The stations (and associated minefields) provide strong enough defences that an attacker (in the sense of "someone approaching"; minefields can be deployed as part of a bite-and-hold offensive to defend against counterattacks) will take significant enough casualties to make an attack by a "small" force no longer effective, either in that it will be unable to kill the defensive station or it will be mutually destructive (and a defence station is cheaper than an interstellar vessel). If the attacker doesn't care about this, then we destroy their vessels and "win".
    2. If the attacker is smart and tries to overwhelm defensive stations, they're forced to concentrate their forces. Instead of us dealing with dozens of attacks all over the place, the fleet only has to respond to a few, larger attacks. It's easier to respond to one big fire than a dozen small ones.
    3. The defensive stations and minefields should have a reasonably high effectiveness, meaning that they will hopefully inflict significant casualties on the attacker. This means that when the fleet arrives, instead of fighting an opponent at 100% strength, they're fighting someone who's already been softened up, increasing the odds of our victory. The defensive stations act as a defence in depth, absorbing the attacker's powerful initial thrust with a cheap, "spammable" crumple zone and then letting the fleet counterattack in an optimal manner.
    It's kinda like a conceptual Hindenburg Line - we've got a bunch of defences that we think will get overrun, but they wear out the attackers and channel them into a few locations that make it easier for us to counterattack (and in doing so, we indirectly prevent them from attacking everywhere else too).
     
    So, initial thoughts....

    [ ] OPLAN: FILLER NAME
    - [ ] This is what was requested. Lay one down at the next available opportunity.
    -[ ] HSWS Response
    -- [ ] Demand additional resources from Home for construction of additional defensive stations (using torpedoes, lasers, missiles, smallcraft, and mines) to prevent repeat raids on our outlying systems until such a time as additional hulls can be constructed for active fleetships.
    -- [ ] Demand additional resources for reconstruction of the Deep Hope station and anchorage, with additional defensive capabilities.
    -- [ ] Maintain the two cruisers in Deep Hope for the time being.
    -- [ ] Deploy two frigates from the Home Force to Xyri to act as a tripwire until we can establish a defensive station for their orbitals.
    -- [ ] Send what little information we have to the Aslan and ask if they have encountered such vessels before and, if so, if they would be willing to share information on it and its source.
    -- [ ] Send what little information we have to the Xyri and ask if they have encountered such vessels before and, if so, if they would be willing to share information on it and its source.
    -- [ ] Attempt further integration of Xyrian defense forces (such as they are) with the HSWS.
    - [ ] Crew debrief
    -- [ ] What can we learn about the enemy crew?
    -- [ ] What can we learn about the enemy ship?
    -- [ ] What can we learn about where they came from?


    Honestly still don't know what to ask the survivors about. I think they might be able to tell us the most about the crew, considering our sensors couldn't tell us much about the ship (although presumably we can get some idea of its capabilities). I don't know if they'll be able to tell us much about where it came from, though.
     
    Last edited:
    Pilots are required just for the jumps, right? Could we create a ship that can be carried by the same ship we use for the defensive stations, and ferry them to whatever system requires them? Call it a System Defense Frigate or something.
     
    Rat King said:
    Still takin' thoughts on what question to ask our survivors.
    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...

    All three are reasonable questions to ask, but I would start with enemy ship. "Enemy crew" and "where they came from" would tell us more about the enemy's location, government, and society. Could be useful for diplomacy, or for a retaliatory strike—but even with a known target I don't like the idea of a retaliatory strike on an enemy with higher tech and cloaking, and I'm not particularly interested in diplomacy with a planet that blew up our station after we offered to refuel their ship either. What we need most right now is information about countering their stealth.
     
    Last edited:
    Boss Tweed said:
    What we need most right now is information about countering their stealth.
    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...
    Don't think we'll be able to learn this juicy titbit at this point - unlikely enemy crewmen shared "and phaser set to this and that frequences would disable our stealth cloak" inforation with our station staff. Shipwise we'll probably get info on the enemy ship's displacement, and weapons (maybe not all of them). Maybe on their shuttles too.
    Though it is something.

    Since the ship previously did not share information on who they are and where they came from, probbaly "What can we learn about where they came from?" would give us least information.

    "What can we learn about the enemy crew?" could give us some info on how they behaved (maybe they felt sorta like irregulars (pirates?), or corporates, and not straightforward navy types. Also if there were ani aliens).
    Though if they were boring and humans this also won't give us much.

    so, "enemy ship" question I think is guaranteed to give us not very comprehensve description, but nothing groundbreaking; "enemy crew" could give us either important details (better info than "ship question"), or not so good ones (worse than "ship"); and "enemy polity" I think won't give us much at all.

    SCPAIC said:
    Gentlemen may I suggest the idea of missile/torpedo mines. Nothing like surprising an enemy with a torpedo to the face from an unexpected angle.
    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...

    That's a general idea, yes.
     
    [X] OPLAN: Retort
    -[X] This is what was requested. Lay one down at the next available opportunity.
    -[X] HSWS Response
    --[X] Demand additional resources from Home for construction of additional defensive stations (using torpedoes, lasers, missiles, smallcraft, and mines) to prevent repeat raids on our outlying systems until such a time as additional hulls can be constructed for active fleetships.
    --[X] Demand additional resources for reconstruction of the Deep Hope station and anchorage, with additional defensive capabilities.
    --[X] Maintain the two cruisers in Deep Hope for the time being, along with a courier for flash traffic.
    --[X] Deploy two frigates from the Home Force to Xyri to act as a tripwire until we can establish a defensive station for their orbitals.
    --[X] Send what little information we have to the Aslan and ask if they have encountered such vessels before and, if so, if they would be willing to share information on it and its source.
    --[X] Send what little information we have to the Xyri and ask if they have encountered such vessels before and, if so, if they would be willing to share information on it and its source.
    --[X] Attempt further integration of Xyrian defense forces (such as they are) with the HSWS.
    - [X] Crew debrief
    --[X] What can we learn about the enemy crew?

    After some thought, going with "crew" because I think learning the motivation for the attack, if any, might help us out in terms of figuring out what motivates them and we can then plan around that and figure out what other targets, if any, they might potentially go after.
     
    Reader mode
    You must login or register to reply here.
    Remove ads
    Back
    Top