If we were to do this, Tsubame Gaeshi sounds like a good milestone to start with, and wouldn't be too out of place compared to other jutsu.

Did Rin even know about what Assassin could do?

I have no idea, and it's an excellent skill to have, but the concept behind it isn't at all related to the jewel sword.

Heck, who knows if the jewel sword, reinvented using sealing and ninjitsu, would even be a sword.

Yeah, I've decided. Rin Tohsaka would try to perform the 2nd Magic using ninja arts and sealing arts, it's her life's work and she doesn't really have any other projects on her plate. Definitely voting we try to do that next, if only to see whether it's possible or not.
 
Patch said:
I have no idea, and it's an excellent skill to have, but the concept behind it isn't at all related to the jewel sword.

Of course it's related, if not directly, they are both applications of the Kaleidoscope, I get what you mean though.
Also if we're not careful we could have a Hollow Ataraxia-esque incident, which although would be full of shenanigans, is not what we want... right?
 
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Sasuke didn't have the whole month IIRC, he was out of it for nearly half of it. And the Chidori is an A-rank ninjutsu, it's not Nature Transformation of the first level (leaf something). Not to mention Sasuke spent much of that time simply getting his speed up to par.

Shisui's Lightning element was his third element, with all that entails.
The first level training is some of the hardest training because at that point your still learning how to turn normal Chakra into Elemental Chakra. Sasuke had no prior history of using Lightning Chakra. The only reason he could get good enough at Lightning Chakra to use the Chidori in such a fast time was because he had an active Sharingan and even that wasn't an instant process.
There's a reason Orochimaru wanted that dojutsu and it's because it makes learning any none-bloodline jutsu super easy, including elemental jutsu.

Without a Sharingan to cheat the process, Sasuke would be limited to learning how to do Lightning nature transformation the slow way just like everyone else.
 
Changed the first stage of Lightning for Rin from 13 days to 22, and for future Sasuke from 2 days to ~6. I also ~doubled the time it took for the other elements. You did have a point, after all, @GhostKing 666

Oh, and I SERIOUSLY doubt the first exercise was done with help from the Sharingan. After all, elemental recomposition is seal-less, and Sasuke had only two tomoe in each eye. Think about that. Just seeing what the Lightning element is like... what help would that be, especially when he's got an underdeveloped Sharingan? After all, any Hyuuga can do that a hundred times better.

Itachi would be capable of using all the Elements if the Sharingan truly helped in re-composition.
 
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The first level training is some of the hardest training because at that point your still learning how to turn normal Chakra into Elemental Chakra. Sasuke had no prior history of using Lightning Chakra. The only reason he could get good enough at Lightning Chakra to use the Chidori in such a fast time was because he had an active Sharingan and even that wasn't an instant process.
There's a reason Orochimaru wanted that dojutsu and it's because it makes learning any none-bloodline jutsu super easy, including elemental jutsu.

Without a Sharingan to cheat the process, Sasuke would be limited to learning how to do Lightning nature transformation the slow way just like everyone else.
The Sharingan lets you see Chakra. This helps you speed up learning Jutsus because you see the flows of Chakra, and also gain the ability to replicate them. This does not apply to Nature Transformation.
What this means if you don't have the elemental affinity to learn a jutsu, you can't copy it with Sharingan.
 
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The fuck are you talking about?
A chunk of the massacre was caused by growing rifts from the rest of the village, and to boot, just enough visibility on the Uchiha plot to be worrying but also not enough visibility for the Uchiha to slow down or at least make efforts to defuse suspicions.

Ino isn't a bad way to push some degree of integration, given who her father is. Maybe we can get her a more constructive teenage interest than mooning over Sasuke.

Naruto is the opposite, since he's isolated, taking him into the Uchiha sphere is more likely to aggravate other forms of isolation(and also for those who are in on the coup plot...well, taking control of the Jinchuuriki is probably in line with that no?). We know he'll be fine, just lonely.
 
A chunk of the massacre was caused by growing rifts from the rest of the village, and to boot, just enough visibility on the Uchiha plot to be worrying but also not enough visibility for the Uchiha to slow down or at least make efforts to defuse suspicions.

Ino isn't a bad way to push some degree of integration, given who her father is. Maybe we can get her a more constructive teenage interest than mooning over Sasuke.

Naruto is the opposite, since he's isolated, taking him into the Uchiha sphere is more likely to aggravate other forms of isolation(and also for those who are in on the coup plot...well, taking control of the Jinchuuriki is probably in line with that no?). We know he'll be fine, just lonely.


Rin is 4. She can't control clan politics.

Although Ino is a good person to hang out with. I actually could go for any of them.
 
She can influence it. Because 4 year olds meeting involve parents meeting. Which can spark politics
Veekie. Let me explain something very carefully to you.

The Yamanaka don't go around reading people's minds or casually mind walking them. And our parents are in no way in any political power in our Clan. We can't do shit to stop what's coming.
 
Quick question. Where's your evidence? Of Sasuke having used his Sharigan to copy that. Considering how it seems the Sharigan can copy anything instantly and perfectly.
Kakashi can copy almost any jutsu near instantly, because he spent years practicing that particular skill(to the point where he became famed as Copy-Ninja Kakashi). Sasuke hadn't possessed his Sharingan nowhere near long enough to get that good at it.
Changed the first stage of Lightning for Rin from 13 days to 22, and for future Sasuke from 2 days to ~6.

Oh, and I SERIOUSLY doubt the first exercise was done with help from the Sharingan. After all, elemental recomposition is seal-less, and Sasuke had only two tomoe in each eye. Think about that. Just seeing what the Lightning element is like... what help would that be, especially when he's got an underdeveloped Sharingan? After all, any Hyuuga can do that a hundred times better.

Itachi would be capable of using all the Elements if the Sharingan truly helped in re-composition.
The Sharingan lets you see Chakra. This helps you speed up learning Jutsus because you see the flows of Chakra, and also gain the ability to replicate them. This does not apply to Nature Transformation.
Yes, yes it can because the whole point of the Sharingan's justu copy ability is that it lets the Uchiha actually see Chakra and observe it in use.
  1. The user can see chakra, giving it colour in order to distinguish it by its composition and source. Though not as capable in this regard as the Byakugan, it can see chakra through some (but not all) obstructions and detect irregularities in a person's chakra flow, such as those caused by genjutsu influence.
  2. The user is granted incredible clarity of perception, enabling them to read lips or mimic something like pencil movements. Sasuke Uchiha's Sharingan was even able to see on a cellular level. In combat, this allows them to see fast-moving objects and, once fully developed, offers some amount of predictive capabilities: they can anticipate an opponent's next move based on the slightest muscle tension in their body and act accordingly to dodge or intercept. They can also read the enemy's hand seals to give them an insight of the performed technique's nature, regardless of the speed of performance, so long as the hands are not physically hidden from view. Although a Sharingan user can see these things, they also need the physical ability to actually act on the visual information. In the anime, it is shown that with advanced enough prowess, via eye contact, the user can even enter the target's mind to look through their memories.
  3. The user is able to copy almost any jutsu they see, memorising ninjutsu, genjutsu, and taijutsu with near-perfect accuracy. They can then either perform that jutsu or modify it to suit their needs, as when Sasuke Uchiha bases his Lion Combo on Rock Lee's Front Lotus. Again, Sharingan users need the prerequisite abilities before they can mimic a jutsu they have seen, and for that reason they cannot, for example, reproduce kekkei genkai abilities they do not have or nature transformations they haven't learned to perform.

All Kakashi would have had to do was show Sasuke the process of converting regular Chakra into Lightning Chakra and Sasuke would be able to go "oh so I just have to move my Chakra like this". It's the same principle as when Naruto asked Asuma about tips on using Wind Chakra, only rather then have to rely on feeling the Chakra, a Uchiha with the Sharingan can just observe the Chakra directly and copy what they see with their own chakra.

It would still take a lot of practice to actually preform the correct Nature Transformation(hence why it took Sasuke many days to get the Chidori down), but once the Uchiha reaches that point, copying Jutsu is a virtual synch compared to learning said jutsu without the Sharingan.
 
Veekie. Let me explain something very carefully to you.

The Yamanaka don't go around reading people's minds or casually mind walking them. And our parents are in no way in any political power in our Clan. We can't do shit to stop what's coming.

Zero to do with mindreading dude.
Its about Yamanaka, meeting Uchiha adults and talking over cute kids doing cute things.

WHILE giving the Uchiha plotters a nudge to wise up a bit, because of the greater potential for exposure
 
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So what you're saying is that you have absolutely no evidence and are taking something that flat outs contradicts you as you being right. Got it.
 
[X]The Shadowed Sun
[X] Plan I Can Graduate Any Time!
[X] Design the Jeweled Sword using chakra techniques.
 
Kakashi can copy almost any jutsu near instantly, because he spent years practicing that particular skill(to the point where he became famed as Copy-Ninja Kakashi). Sasuke hadn't possessed his Sharingan nowhere near long enough to get that good at it.


Yes, yes it can because the whole point of the Sharingan's justu copy ability is that it lets the Uchiha actually see Chakra and observe it in use.
  1. The user can see chakra, giving it colour in order to distinguish it by its composition and source. Though not as capable in this regard as the Byakugan, it can see chakra through some (but not all) obstructions and detect irregularities in a person's chakra flow, such as those caused by genjutsu influence.
  2. The user is granted incredible clarity of perception, enabling them to read lips or mimic something like pencil movements. Sasuke Uchiha's Sharingan was even able to see on a cellular level. In combat, this allows them to see fast-moving objects and, once fully developed, offers some amount of predictive capabilities: they can anticipate an opponent's next move based on the slightest muscle tension in their body and act accordingly to dodge or intercept. They can also read the enemy's hand seals to give them an insight of the performed technique's nature, regardless of the speed of performance, so long as the hands are not physically hidden from view. Although a Sharingan user can see these things, they also need the physical ability to actually act on the visual information. In the anime, it is shown that with advanced enough prowess, via eye contact, the user can even enter the target's mind to look through their memories.
  3. The user is able to copy almost any jutsu they see, memorising ninjutsu, genjutsu, and taijutsu with near-perfect accuracy. They can then either perform that jutsu or modify it to suit their needs, as when Sasuke Uchiha bases his Lion Combo on Rock Lee's Front Lotus. Again, Sharingan users need the prerequisite abilities before they can mimic a jutsu they have seen, and for that reason they cannot, for example, reproduce kekkei genkai abilities they do not have or nature transformations they haven't learned to perform.

All Kakashi would have had to do was show Sasuke the process of converting regular Chakra into Lightning Chakra and Sasuke would be able to go "oh so I just have to move my Chakra like this". It's the same principle as when Naruto asked Asuma about tips on using Wind Chakra, only rather then have to rely on feeling the Chakra, a Uchiha with the Sharingan can just observe the Chakra directly and copy what they see with their own chakra.

It would still take a lot of practice to actually preform the correct Nature Transformation(hence why it took Sasuke many days to get the Chidori down), but once the Uchiha reaches that point, copying Jutsu is a virtual synch compared to learning said jutsu without the Sharingan.

Kakashi didn't say anything about Sasuke using his eyes to speed up the process, though; he simply said that Sasuke is very talented. If simply seeing a Nature transformation being used helped that much, without hand-seals, then Neji and Hinata would know all the Elements.

I'm not saying that Sasuke didn't learn the Chidori near-instantly with the Sharingan after he got Nature Transformation down - I'm simply saying that 'seeing' the flow won't do much more than Asuma's advice without accompanying hand-seals.
 
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Kakashi didn't say anything about Sasuke using his eyes to speed up the process, though; he simply said that Sasuke is very talented. If simply seeing a Nature transformation being used helped that much, without hand-seals, then Neji and Hinata would know all the Elements.
Hell if anything, the Byakugan would do it better since they'd be more likely to actually see the process. I'm willing to bet at most the Sharigan sees is the Chakra's typical color before it suddenly changes into a different color for said element.
 
Hell if anything, the Byakugan would do it better since they'd be more likely to actually see the process. I'm willing to bet at most the Sharigan sees is the Chakra's typical color before it suddenly changes into a different color for said element.

The two tomoe Sharingan, which we are talking about... yes, probably.

Part 2 Sasuke's Sharingan could do a lot more eventually, I'd bet, even without Mangekyo, Rinnegan etc.
 
The two tomoe Sharingan, which we are talking about... yes, probably.

Part 2 Sasuke's Sharingan could do a lot more eventually, I'd bet, even without Mangekyo, Rinnegan etc.
Sasuke's Sharigan was said to be able to see to a cellular level. But that may not really work on seeing the exact process of element transformation.

Now if you all will excuse me, I am tired and going to bed. Good night.
 
Kakashi didn't say anything about Sasuke using his eyes to speed up the process, though; he simply said that Sasuke is very talented. If simply seeing a Nature transformation being used helped that much, without hand-seals, then Neji and Hinata would know all the Elements.

I'm not saying that Sasuke didn't learn the Chidori near-instantly after he got Nature Transformation down - I'm simply saying that 'seeing' the flow won't do much more than Asuma's advice without accompanying hand-seals.
Neji and Hinata don't use elemental jutsu because that wouldn't be very Hyuuga. Many of the major clans in Konoha(and other ninja villages) have clan specific jutsu that they specialize in to the point where they seem to outright forgo learning jutsu outside said clan techniques. And the Hyuuga are the most anally retentive traditionalist of all the clans of that type we have ever seen. Hell, Neji learning Main Branch jutsu techniques was a big scandal during the Chunin Exams. If the Hyuuga Elders had smaller sticks up their buts they'd probably go around like this:


Learning actual none-hyuuga traditional jutsu?! That's way to extreme for even the liberals of that family.
 
Hinata knows how to use two elements in canon; Neji could use three. Though it IS a bit of an informed attribute.

-----

Either way, my head-canon is that Sasuke was just that good at the Lightning element, and that the two-tomoe Sharingan wasn't enough to see what was going on with the elemental Chakra.

I Edited Rin's learning of the Elements to take approximately twice as long, in case you didn't notice, because you DO have a good point.
 
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So what you're saying is that you have absolutely no evidence and are taking something that flat outs contradicts you as you being right. Got it.

Less hostility about your lack of reading comprehension please.

The whole endeavor is to get the PARENTS to talk, the Yamanaka's status as a founding clan, and the current head of investigations.

Whether they read minds freely or not is not a relevant factor
 
Less hostility about your lack of reading comprehension please.

The whole endeavor is to get the PARENTS to talk, the Yamanaka's status as a founding clan, and the current head of investigations.

Whether they read minds freely or not is not a relevant factor

Can that butterfly away the Uchiha Clan Downfall?

That's for the QM (me) to decide....
 
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