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Time of the Gods: Into the Amber Age

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sidestory said:
@ninjafish, can I somehow convince you to include

--[] Reflecting Pool - Dedicate greater efforts to studying the still sea and the strange energy you encountered. Costs: 14 DE (reserves two uses of Calm Seas)

at the partial expense of these two





?

I mean with reflecting pool you would have auto calm seas twice and personally I find spending 20DE on petitioners all for Astrology somewhat excessive (Especially when I'm not 100% sure there are still enough people left alive in our domain for all that DE)
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True... but I don't want to just change the plan wholesale either, but I think I could shift some around if others are okay with it.

@Ando Owen @Sivantic what say you?
 
On the one hand, it's not mechanically ideal. But fuck it, I don't think it ever will be mechanically perfect. Gimme an octopus monster.


DE: 74-15 (Moonlight)-4 (Calm)-6 (Fish)-5 (Inspire)-17 (Blessings)-8 (Future)-14 (Pool)-5 (Saiga) = 0
Ambrosia: 1-1 (Sustenance) = 0/1
Sustenance: 16-2 (Study Stars)-2 (Saiga)-1 (Demand)-8 (Baby)+10 (Ambrosia) = 13/20
Trait Usage: Astral Affinity - Moon, Ocean Affinity - Sea, Minor Spirit of the Sea, Minor Spirit of Mischief


[X] Plan: Octopus Baby

[X] Moonlight
-[X] In your territory.
[X] Control Waters
-[X] Calm Seas.
--[X] At night.
[X] Direct Fish
-[X] Call Fish.
--[X] At night.

[X] Inspire Petitioner
[X] Bless Petitioner for Sacrifices
-[X] Expend 7 DE on petitioners for Astrology
-[X] Expend 5 DE on petitioners for Trickery
[X] Bless Petitioner for Growth
--[X] Expend 5 DE on petitioners for Navigation

[X] Study Stars
-[X] Read the Future
-[X] Reflecting Pool
[X] Meet with Saiga.
-[X] Learn more about him
-[X] Learn more about him x2
-[X] Learn more about Niogg
-[X] Consummate your marriage, but refuse a child for now

[X] Make Demand
-[X] Your shrine is lacking. Demand that they put their efforts to improving it.

[X] Lay with Antarctic Octopus
-[X] Contribute a rank of Avatar to sire an Ur-beast
-[X] Contribute 8 Sustenance


  • Future Telling because that's always great. I also wanna play with our new toy, so let's try out Moonshine - and if we're doing that, let's give Reflecting Pool a shot too. This also firmly secures Astral Affinity - Moon.
  • Calming the sea and directing fish at night to secure Ocean Affinity - Sea and Minor Spirit of the Sea, while also prepping for our return two turns from now where we scare the shit out of everyone who thinks Saiga tamed us.
  • Inspiriation + Astrology blessing to spurn some social development and try to work on that oracle class, blessings in general to promote DE income. Iirc and we can expect about 1.5 DE per 1 DE put in, this plus the base 8.8 income should give us 34 DE to use next turn. Not enough for random experiments, but a solid spending amount for a quiet turn. Trickery blessings and the state intent of calming only to scare people later should be enough to secure Minor Spirit of Mischief.
  • Consummate with Saiga but hold of on the spirit kid. Learn as much as we can.
  • @Raising Kittens has a very solid point about Shrine. Use that demand.
  • Have an Octopus Baby!

This look okay to you @ninjafish? Didn't like your exact spread of minor stuff, but if I'm reading the room right it's the baby that's most important, :V. We invested a rank of Avatar into this kid and lose the ability to bless fish, but the latter is mostly a nonfactor and the former...I'm okay with that. Let's see how this first one goes before we embark and future eugenics.
 
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Van Ropen said:
On the one hand, it's not mechanically ideal. But fuck it, I don't think it ever will be mechanically perfect. Gimme an octopus monster.


DE: 74-15 (Moonlight)-4 (Calm)-6 (Fish)-5 (Inspire)-17 (Blessings)-8 (Future)-14 (Pool)-5 (Saiga) = 0
Ambrosia: 1-1 (Sustenance) = 0/1
Sustenance: 16-2 (Study Stars)-2 (Saiga)-1 (Demand)-8 (Baby)+10 (Ambrosia) = 13/20
Trait Usage: Astral Affinity - Moon, Ocean Affinity - Sea, Minor Spirit of the Sea, Minor Spirit of Mischief


[X] Plan: Octopus Baby

[X] Moonlight
-[X] In your territory.
[X] Control Waters
-[X] Calm Seas.
--[X] At night.
[X] Direct Fish
-[X] Call Fish.
--[X] At night.

[X] Inspire Petitioner
[X] Bless Petitioner for Sacrifices
-[X] Expend 7 DE on petitioners for Astrology
-[X] Expend 5 DE on petitioners for Trickery
[X] Bless Petitioner for Growth
--[X] Expend 5 DE on petitioners for Navigation

[X] Study Stars
-[X] Read the Future
-[X] Reflecting Pool
[X] Meet with Saiga.
-[X] Learn more about him
-[X] Learn more about him x2
-[X] Learn more about Niogg
-[X] Consummate your marriage, but refuse a child for now

[X] Make Demand
-[X] Your shrine is lacking. Demand that they put their efforts to improving it.

[X] Lay with Antarctic Octopus
-[X] Contribute a rank of Avatar to sire an Ur-beast
-[X] Contribute 8 Sustenance


  • Future Telling because that's always great. I also wanna play with our new toy, so let's try out Moonshine - and if we're doing that, let's give Reflecting Pool a shot too. This also firmly secures Astral Affinity - Moon.
  • Calming the sea and directing fish at night to secure Ocean Affinity - Sea and Minor Spirit of the Sea, while also prepping for our return two turns from now where we scare the shit out of everyone who thinks Saiga tamed us.
  • Inspiriation + Astrology blessing to spurn some social development and try to work on that oracle class, blessings in general to promote DE income. Iirc and we can expect about 1.5 DE per 1 DE put in, this plus the base 8.8 income should give us 34 DE to use next turn. Not enough for random experiments, but a solid spending amount for a quiet turn.
  • Consummate with Saiga but hold of on the spirit kid. Learn as much as we can.
  • @Raising Kittens has a very solid point about Shrine. Use that demand.
  • Have an Octopus Baby!
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I'm literally gonna do the octopus monster when I get back, and if doesn't cost de I'll add a demand for shrine improvement.

I'm also doing reflecting pool.

Yeah shrine improvement is go, soon as I get access to a proper computer.

@Van Ropen please do not split the vote edits to the plan Are coming as soon as i can get on a proper computer.
 
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Raising Kittens said:
Stars and Frost are unchanged for some reason.
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Still not caught up, but I have the answer to this! And I don't care if anyone has already answered this, because I live in Alaska (this will be relevant later).

So the answer to Stars is pretty obvious, they both pop up at night, and therefore share a relationship. Therefore, no price hike (or a price hike that is immediatly discounted).

As for Frost? That's because WE'RE IN THE ARCTIC CIRCLE (or close enough). That means that Day and Night are roughly synonymous with Summer and Winter. @Powerofmind even confirmed that the "Long Night" lasts for a solid 5 days. In fact, chuck your concept of a 'day' being half a light cycle and half a dark cycle, because that is a purely seasonal phenomenon, that lasts only two quarters of a year! And those quarters are separated by seasons that are dominated almost entirely by Sunlight, or Moonlight.

Which has some hilarious affects on our Astrology, actually, since that means that the height of the Summer season is actually a dead zone forus, since the sun will be up for, like, 90 percent of the time.

Also casts Veekies old plan to roil the waters during the day and calm them at night absolutely hilarious, because he framed it using an idea that would actually only be a SEASONAL event for our people, and would absolutely RUIN them during the Light/Summer season, while being an immense boon during the Night/Winter season... or not, because the entire ocean could potentially freeze over during mid-winter, but I think we can gloss over that as weird local planet thing, aka acceptable break from reality.

I live in Alaska!
 
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ninjafish said:
I'm literally gonna do the octopus monster when I get back, and if doesn't cost de I'll add a demand for shrine improvement.

I'm also doing reflecting pool.
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Well, you haven't yet, sooo...:p

I mean, I just don't like your spread in general. Learning about Saiga/the village is important, wander is cool but 20 DE cool?, you didn't bless Trickery, etc. These are small fixes, but they matter to me.
 
Powerofmind said:
Traits don't disappear from the buy chart, but they do get a much smaller piece of the pie by comparison (they go down to having roughly 40-30% of the numbers from 60+). If you let yourself pick up 5/4 traits, you will explode into a cloud of energy.
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So we should drop a trait now, or risk blowing up next turn if the rolls give us a trait?
If so, then Fear spirits in effect have a trait slot less than Faith spirits, since they have to keep one slot empty in case they happen to gain a trait.

Edit: Aaargh what is it with people wanting to make an Ur-monster and cost us the ability to have more children for Harzivan knows how long? At least make it a regular monster.
 
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Van Ropen said:
Well, you haven't yet, sooo...:p

I mean, I just don't like your spread in general. Learning about Saiga/the village is important, wander is cool but 20 DE cool?, you didn't bless Trickery, etc. These are small fixes, but they matter to me.
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Yes but saiga is right there and easy to get information about. It can be done next turn, also astrology helps our worshippers more than trickery.
 
ninjafish said:
Yes but saiga is right there and easy to get information about. It can be done next turn
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Creatures are right there, we can have a monster next turn.
Our people are right there, we can improve the shrine next turn.
The ocean is right there, we can explore it next turn.

also astrology helps our worshippers more than trickery.
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Slightly arguable in a too-much-of-a-good thing sense, but even then, so what? And are you okay with potentially losing Spirit of Mischief?


tbh, editing your plan from no child to monster child is significant enough a change that I personally would rename it anyways, so...
 
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@Powerofmind is it 5 DE for each action we take with saiga? Or do we just pay 5 DE once?

@if it just 5 DE to get to saiga I'll vote for some learning about his village and himself and etc, but if I have to give more than 5 DE then I won't.
 
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Annotated Results (Turn 5 - 7)
Annotated Updates Archive/Mechanics Post Link​
Powerofmind said:
Stats at start of turn:
Fear 1
Avatar 2
Influence 2
Shrine 1
Navigation 3
Astrology 4
Inherent CA - Water
!
Survival rolled 11 vs 11
???
(55 + 2X vs 55, where x is Saiga's survival--so not enough for a success over us, unless he has survival 10+)
Roil Waters
Influence rolled 16, 9
(90 + crit + 4 = 94 + crit, 5, almost 6 flat successes; 36 + 4 = 40, 2 flat successes)
Calm Waters
Influence rolled 14
(79 + 4 = 83, 4 flat successes)
Quest: Labor of the Moon Sphere
Influence rolled 12
(64 + 4= 68, 3 flat successes.)
Avatar rolled 15
(85 + 4 = 89, 4 flat successes)
Sustenance -2 (additional), Quest Progress now 30
(7 flat successes gave us 30 Progress)
Drink to Forget
Rolled 17
Fishing -2, New Fishing 0
(94...So doesn't really tell us much about how hard Drinking to Forget is XD)
Guide Ships
Navigation rolled 6
(15 + 6 = 21, 1 flat success, but DC is probably 40, so a minor failure)
'Guide' Ships
--- rolled 9
(--- is Perform(trickery), untrained atm; this applies a -1 written/strong penalty-- 9/20 becomes 8/20 -> 28/100 value. 1 flat success, again DC is probably 40, so minor failure)
Read the Future
Astrology rolled 17
(94 + 8 = 102, Major Success I on DC 40)
Raise Shrine
Influence rolled 12
(64 + 4 = 68, 3 flat successes)
Servitude
Fear rolled 13
(72 + 2 = 74, 3, almost 4, flat successes)
Spirit Interaction
Awe rolled 12
Gained 3 legend
(...I just realized i'd been calculating these wrong in earlier annotations--awe is untrained so we get a written penalty. 12 -> 11 : 55/100, 2 flat successes. Presumably base legend of 1. If we had this trained at skill 1 it would have been 64 + 2 =66/100, for another legend. That said, this is fear/faith now, so it doesn't matter)
FEAR BUY - Fear value (3)

1-3: Shrine 2
4-6: Fear 2
7-9: Influence 3
10-15: Avatar 3
16: Astrology
17: Navigation
18: Aspect of the Fish
19: Aspect of the Crustacean
20: Aspect of the Walrus
21-30: Aspect of Humanity
31-60: Spirit of the Sea
61-80: Spirit of Mischief
81-84: AA - Moon
85: OA - Sea
86-95: OA - Waves
96-99: AA - Stars
100: Capricious One
(Our actions (calm/roil, guide/'guide', stars, quest) gave us low chances at most things; highest attribute 6% avatar, 10% humanity, 30% sea, 20% mischief, 10% waves, 1 % Capricious)
Rolled 70: Spirit of Mischief
Fear Value reached/exceeded
Legend Rolled 8
No additional purchases
(Legend value: 28 + crit + ???(Legend modifier) -> 2+ flat successes, not enough to let us gain more than our fear value worth.)
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Powerofmind said:
Stats at start of turn:
Fear 1
Avatar 2
Influence 2
Shrine 1
Navigation 3
Astrology 4
Perform (Trickery) 2
Inherent CA - Water
Minor Spirit of Mischief
Read the Future
Astrology rolled 3
(3 + 8 = 11)
Blessings for Sacrifices
Trickery rolled 18, 13, 5, 10
(97 + 4 = 101, 72 + 4 = 76, 10 + 4 = 14, 45 + 4 = 49.)
(5, 3, 0, 2 flat successes...Saiga is really single minded to ignore these people...or blessings aren't that powerful, since they probably apply +1 or 2 skill per success, or our skill at DC 40, with more/less with each success away from 40 we get.)
Saiga's arrival time
Rolled 6 - Early in the year
(15/100, certainly early, yeah)
You can't hide from me! (All contested rolls: Enemy vs You)
Saiga's Survival rolled 11 vs 2
(55 + 2(S) vs...how does a -1 written/strong penalty work with a 2??? critical failure AND a written penalty...)
First Sight
Astrology rolled 3
???
(3 + 8 = 12...yeah, not the best)

Holy Place Bonus active
(Said by PoM to be a strong/written bonus, Shrine/2 rounded up, +1 for Holy Place)
Show Dominance - First Round
Awe + Perform rolled 13 vs 12
Draw
(72 + 2(A + P) vs 12 -> 14 : 79 + 4 = 83. PoM says ties in opposed checks are "within 10%", so 83 * 1.1 = 91.3 >=72 + 2(A + P) >= 83/1.1 = 75.4, so 10 <= A + P >= 2)
Lovestruck - Second Round
Trickery rolled 6 vs 11
Major Success
(Saiga has no trickery so:
6 -> 5 : 10 vs 11 -> 13 : 72 + 4 = 76. 76 - 10 = 66; Major Success)
Show Dominance - Third Round
Awe + Perform rolled 7 vs 13
Major Success
(Per word of PoM, trickery win meant he lost his modifiers, and our success was great enough that he got another strong -1 penalty)
(7 -> 6 : 15 vs 13 -> 15 : 85 + 4 = 89; 89 -15 = 64, 3 full successes...and PoM has a typo in his annotated version of this encounter)
Spirit Encounter
Awe rolled 11
Gained 4 legend
(Untrained: 11 -> 10 : 45. 2 Flat successes, likely base legend 2)
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Powerofmind said:
Coupling
Siphon 1 Ambrosia. Avatar low, convert to sustenance (+1 DE)
(...i think PoM said 1 Ambrosia = 10 sustenance, so presumably we went from 11 to 20, with teh overflow becoming DE?)
Sleight of Hand
Trickery rolled 4 vs 8
Total threshold too low for success, no failure
(4 -> 3 : 3 vs 28 + 4 = 32. 32 - 3 = 28, 1 flat success...presumably needed 2 successes to succeed, and 0 successes we'd have gotten caught?)
Extended Interaction
Awe rolled 7
Gained 1 Legend
(Untrained: 7 -> 6 : 15. No successes, just base 1 legend)
Luring
Trickery rolled 11
(55 + 4 = 59, almost 3 successes, but enough to beat likely DC of 40 with minor success)
Luring
Awe rolled 4
No legend gained
(4 -> 3: 3...yeah, no wonder we got no legend XD)
FEAR BUY - Fear value (5)
1-15: Shrine 2
16-20: Fear 2
21-35: Avatar 3
36: Astrology
37: Navigation
38-40: Perform (Trickery)
41-45: Minor Aspect of the Walrus
46-50: Minor Aspect of Humanity
51-60: Minor Spirit of the Sea
61-65: Lesser Spirit of Mischief
66-70: AA - Moon
71-80: OA - Sea
81-85: OA - Waves
86-90: AA - Stars
91-100: Capricious One
(Our actions: Blessing, luring, stars, trickery, building a shrine)
(15%: Shrine, Avatar. 10%: Sea, Capricious One. 5%: Fear, Walrus, Humanity, Mischief, Moon, Waves, Stars)
Rolled 58: Minor Spirit of the Sea
1 remaining Fear Value
Legend rolled 11
(Trait/Attribute purchases disabled, secondary roll: Astrology 1-30, Navigation 31-50, Perform (Trickery) 51-100)
Rolled 63: Perform (Trickery
No additional Purchases
(55 + <Legend Mod>. Enough to get extra purchase with 1 extra FV, but only enough for skills, not extra.)
Gained Minor Spirit of the Sea (+2 Fishing, +1 Navigation)
Gained Perform (Trickery) 3, Gained Navigation 4, Gained Fishing 2 (Locked)
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Powerofmind said:
Stats at start of turn:
Fear 1
Avatar 2
Influence 2
Shrine 1
Navigation 4
Astrology 4
Perform (Trickery) 3
Inherent CA - Water
Minor Spirit of Mischief
Minor Spirit of the Sea
Quest: Labor of the Moon Sphere
Influence rolled 12
(64 + 4 + Crit = 68+crit, 4 flat successes.)
Avatar rolled 18
(97 + 4 = 101, 5 flat successes.)
Quest Progress: 30 + 40 = 70
(40 progress from 9 flat successes...30 from 7 before, so probably (Successes - 1) * 5?)
Demand Knowledge
Fear rolled 10
(45 + 2 = 47, 2 flat successes)
Demand Attendants
Fear rolled 10
(Same, 2 flat successes)
Lure
Trickery rolled 13, 9
(72 + 6 = 78, 3 almost 4 flat successes)
(36 + 6 = 42, 2 flat successes)
Whip Waves
Influence rolled 9
(36 + 4 = 40, 2 flat successes)
Saiga does not come
Awe rolled 18
Gained 3 Legend
(Untrained: 18 -> 17 : 94...How the hell did we only get 3 legend with 4 flat successes??? Did Saiga not contronting us while we killed his dudes somehow have negative base legend/a higher DC than most things/our earlier interation? o_O)
FEAR BUY - Vehemence (9)
1-6: Shrine 2
7-8: Fear 2
8-14: Influence 3
15-30: Avatar 3
31: Navigation
32-35: Perform (Trickery)
36: Minor Aspect of the Fish
37: Minor Aspect of the Crustacean
37-40: Minor Aspect of Humanity
41-55: Lesser Spirit of the Sea
56-70: Lesser Spirit of Mischief
71-80: OA - Sea
81-90: OA - Waves
91-100: Capricious One
(Our actions: Disrupt via Lure and Whip Waves, Quest, Demand attendants and info)
(15%: Avatar, Spirit of the Sea, SO Mischief; 10%: Sea, Waves, Capricious One; 7%: Influence; 6%: Shrine, 4%: Humanity)
Rolled 76: Ocean Affinity - Sea
5 remaining Vehemence
Legend Rolled 5
No Additional Purchases
(10 + (Legend Mod), not enough for more purchases even with 5 remaining VV out of 9...)
Gained Ocean Affinity - Sea
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ninjafish said:
Where can I view how much sustenance we have available for next turn, I'll probably edit the plan to get more learning actions provided we have enough sustenance.

And I can split the blessings between astrology and trickery if no one objects.
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The number in parenthesis next to Avatar Actions and Commune Actions on the action list. It's 16/20 right now, consuming an Ambrosia when we hit 10/20 to get back up to 20.

...and pls, if it's this much hassle, can you just copy/paste my plan? Is there anything in it you actually oppose? Because the goal was "ninjafish's intent of octopus baby, without the poor action spread".
 
Van Ropen said:
The number in parenthesis next to Avatar Actions and Commune Actions on the action list. It's 16/20 right now, consuming an Ambrosia when we hit 10/20 to get back up to 20.

...and pls, if it's this much hassle, can you just copy/paste my plan? Is there anything in it you actually oppose? Because the goal was "ninjafish's intent of octopus baby, without the poor action spread".
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Considering your plan has 1 vote and mine has a bunch... pretty sure most people don't mind my action spread.

And yeah I'll edit to do more learning actions when I get home, so in 2-3 hours.
 
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ninjafish said:
And I can split the blessings between astrology and trickery if no one objects.
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It's not so much an objections as that I want to remark that with how heavily we are screwing with the nightsky next turn, (moonlight, reflecting pool, seeing into the future, moonbeam) the high among of astrology blessing might give our people a greater understanding of what we are actually doing and in turn would generate us mmore fear then a trickery blessing might do

Just something that occured to me in the last five minutes
 
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sidestory said:
It's not so much an objections as that I want to remark that with how heavily we are screwing with the nightsky next turn, (moonlight, reflecting pool, seeing into the future, moonbeam) the high among of astrology blessing might give our people a greater understanding of what we are actually doing and in turn would generate us mmore fear then a trickery blessing might do

Just something that occured to me in the last five minutes
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Ahh I won't be changing that anyway.

Van is the only one who seemed to care.

I'll still edit for some learning actions though, because won't change the plan much

chocolote12 said:
You guys know those things are smaller than one of our hands, right?

Well, you changed it, so there's that.
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Well yeah, we impregnated a tree once though, and this doesn't make any less sense than that.
 
veekie said:
Making a Ur-Child costs us Legend. We currently have significant extra Legend(which is going to be gone in a hurry, since Fear Spirit, it'd be lucky to last the turn), which we'd recoup over time. 12 is a pretty big amount of unspent Legend for a fear spirit of our age really, unless we get lucky on the Astrology rolls and recoup that via moonshine. Ur-Children would take time to grow up, but they can specialize into the skills we don't, which is very useful for us. They don't pay out a lot of Legend, but fortunately at this point, if they make it to adulthood, we'd get the cashback already.
Generally speaking, we should make Ur-Child when we have an unusually high amount of Legend and are at the Trait cap. This increases the chances of us fearbuying Fear/Shrine/Influence/Avatar when our more costly traits are off the table.

Making an Ur-Beast costs us a level of Avatar. We do not currently have excess of Avatar rating, so doing so will remove our ability to spawn lesser monsters and demihumans when our Avatar hits 2 again. Ur-Beasts are great for cashing out Legend when they die, so despite the costs, they're very valuable for Legend generation later on. Once we can sustain one and still have kids anyway
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Ur beasts costing avatar levels is kinda dumb and seems like railroading to keep monsters from being a practical thing,

Still worth it, it never said it stops us from gaining any more levels in avatar.
 
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