Threads Of Destiny(Eastern Fantasy, Sequel to Forge of Destiny)

Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
Welp. Feels bad Han Fang. I liked you. But if u gonna tussle against Lanlan and the gang u gon get stomp'd >:[

It's interesting to view Han Jian through a lens of "over-kindness leading to decision paralysis" as opposed to laziness. Makes everything more tragic about how bad he screwed up year one actually.

I . . . hope he redeems himself a bit. Honestly he's a good character, he's just not like. Good for us lololol. Just look how he treated his original clique/allies
1. Xiulan was broken, tribulated, left his faction
2. Fan Who was broken, still broken, lost his wife
3. Han Fang had to do everything for himself, and ultimately failed without enough backing/support.
4. Ling Qi was sort of ignored, not properly integrated. She left.

I think it'd be nice to have him actually seek us out now that we've been doing our own thing for so long. I'd like to know his thoughts on how year one went down, and learn a bit about what his plans for longer term politicking are.

Because I don't mind having a very kind SL 1 or 2 who represents a family that has different political priorities to our SL4's (xiulan's for sure. Maybe others, like Cai/Bai/Xuan trade deal) desires. It's a moral conundrum of sincerity right? How much of a friend can you be with someone that may be an adversary?

if he never reaches out though . . . well.
good luck lol. Xiulan's looking like she could be the spark that revives the Gu Phoenix/Inferno finally. And that'd be great <3
 
[X] Infiltrate the fortress by using your wisps to move through the walls (Base DC 40 higher degrees of success allow deeper infiltration, degrees of failure shorten time spent before turning back)
 
Jian, his liege, his brother hurried to off him a hand, streams of qi still fluttering in a lazy spiral around him.
offer


Han Jian just basically flubbed every decision he made during Year 1. He started out as a sort of friendly social guy, but the only SLls he had were his original circle and Ling Qi (yes, I know its mechanical issue, but still), whose SL he handled badly due to Xuilan issues. And his Hail Mary SL consolidation of the Golden Fields group which again pushed away all other SLs, failed miserably.

Really, I dont think Han Jian even pushed Fan Yu to learn how to communicate with Han Fang. I doubt Fan Yu has any other person to talk to other than them two (minus one as stated) as well. And them being cultivators should make learning such things a lot easier due to their better memory + processing.
 
It's interesting to view Han Jian through a lens of "over-kindness leading to decision paralysis" as opposed to laziness.
He's naturally inclined towards a Way that is utterly incompatible with his Grandfather's, I think.

Not exactly a situation that'd teach him initiative.

Han Fang, on the other hand, is much more in tune with Grampa Tiger. "You need to be able to make the hard decisions!"

Something's going to break in there, sooner-or-later.

Break again, really.
 
Welp. Feels bad Han Fang. I liked you. But if u gonna tussle against Lanlan and the gang u gon get stomp'd >:[

It's interesting to view Han Jian through a lens of "over-kindness leading to decision paralysis" as opposed to laziness. Makes everything more tragic about how bad he screwed up year one actually.

I . . . hope he redeems himself a bit. Honestly he's a good character, he's just not like. Good for us lololol. Just look how he treated his original clique/allies
1. Xiulan was broken, tribulated, left his faction
2. Fan Who was broken, still broken, lost his wife
3. Han Fang had to do everything for himself, and ultimately failed without enough backing/support.
4. Ling Qi was sort of ignored, not properly integrated. She left.

I think it'd be nice to have him actually seek us out now that we've been doing our own thing for so long. I'd like to know his thoughts on how year one went down, and learn a bit about what his plans for longer term politicking are.

Because I don't mind having a very kind SL 1 or 2 who represents a family that has different political priorities to our SL4's (xiulan's for sure. Maybe others, like Cai/Bai/Xuan trade deal) desires. It's a moral conundrum of sincerity right? How much of a friend can you be with someone that may be an adversary?

if he never reaches out though . . . well.
good luck lol. Xiulan's looking like she could be the spark that revives the Gu Phoenix/Inferno finally. And that'd be great <3
it'd be pretty wild if Han Jian becomes a villian, as a direct result of the events that happen here.
 
[X] Infiltrate the fortress by using your wisps to move through the walls (Base DC 40 higher degrees of success allow deeper infiltration, degrees of failure shorten time spent before turning back)
 
I'm pretty sure that "melding" is when you meld your impurity coalesced body with Qi for power, but it starts to erode you. Like. It's not easy/trivial to gather/cultivate the impurity to grow in "cultivation" but accepting the channeling of Qi. Melding yourself with Qi. That's where really strong power comes from . . . even if you erode for it.

it would explain why the shishigui are undetectable to Qi senses typically, right? and why they use talismans/formations for the most part, and are able to suicide-attack well above their perceived weight class, and why their corpses are still live channeling aids for group summons. Their cultivation would be self carving, shoring up impurity, making themselves more resilient/robust for when qi is eventually channeled. I duno. Some thoughts
This is my first comment in the thread (since I caught up with the story yesterday) and I haven't payed that much attention to the discussion so maybe this theory has been discarded but maybe the whole shortening their lives thing is not a consecuence of their cultivation but of the place they live in.

From what we know, this place is poisonous for those with higher cultivation, the shishigui get shorter lifespans to gain power, they farm and distill something similar to impurities and its lack is something that worries the populace. So I think that it might be possible that the gunk they are distilling is not used to aid their cultivation by adding impurities to their warriors but to shield their people from the poison to qi by adding more impurities to their bodies. If they have to keep adding it because the protection degrades then it makes sense that they would worry about a shorter supply and if their melding process removes impurities from their bodies then it would make them more suceptible to the poison, which would explain them living less.

It would also explain a bit the whole awakening their pups thing. Cultivation usually makes human better in all aspects, which includes smarts. So they might be in a situation in which they are born being little more than beast and they have to awaken into the Red stage to be sentient but by doing so they need to incorporate the gunk to their bodies to keep alive since they become suceptible to the poison. So there is a waiting list to awakening since every new pup means less resources for every new awakened.
A bit of a hint:
The Elder hummed thoughtfully. "Once, many, many millennia ago, long before the Sage Emperor arose and ended the Age of Sorrow, the world was not as it is today," Ling Qi leaned forward listening intently. "Great Spirits walked, flew and burrowed freely through the world, which held to order and form only at their whim. There were no humans then, and beasts and spirits were born purely from the churning turmoil of the elements, most of them mere fragments and extensions of greater spirits, with little true will of their own."

It was a difficult thing to picture, but Ling Qi remained silent, letting the Elder speak. "Not all were pleased with the arrangement," Elder Ying said with a slight smile. "The spirit which we know only as the Nameless Mother was one of the greatest spirits, mighty even by the reckoning of their kind, and she grew to despise the disorder of the world, and the loneliness of her existence. She came to desire companionship of beings who were not simply her thoughts given temporary form. She sought her fellows, but their incomprehensible company left her unfulfilled, for great spirits were as alien to one another as such beings often are to us."

Ling Qi thought about her own isolation in the streets, and nodded despite herself. "So what did she do?" She thought that she had a pretty good idea of where this was going, but she wouldn't interrupt the story.

"She tried, for a time to create something which she could converse meaningfully with, but it was for naught. No matter what she attempted, her creations were little more than dolls, moving at her whim," Elder Ying replied, a note of sadness touching her voice. "She tried again and again to no avail, using every element and combination she could think of. When her latest attempt, dolls shaped of clay and river water had failed yet again, the Nameless Mother despaired, and broke into tears over the clay dolls, which held no will of their own," the Elder shook her head and sighed. "Her despair was not for naught though, as the sound of her tears brought the attention of another great spirit, he found the dark vortex formed by the Mother's emotions a great curiosity, and when he beheld her crying over the dolls, a strange feeling came to him."

Ling Qi's lips quirked up for a moment, of course it did. A man coming upon a crying woman, well that was an opportunity wasn't it. She supposed that wasn't where the story was going though, especially since this was a story about spirits, and the description was likely symbolism to make it comprehensible.

Elder Su paused, giving her an amused look, as if her thoughts were heard, and Ling Qi ducked her head and flushed a bit. "Great Spirits were alien to one another, each was their own unique being with little connection to one another, yet this spirit felt strange at the sight of the Mother's tears. He felt a pain, as if he had come to harm. At first he imagined it an attack, and withdrew in suspicion," she continued without pause. "Eventually though, he found that he was not wounded, and once again grew curious, filled with a desire to understand. He returned and considered the scene. Soon, he came to the conclusion that the Mother's pain had caused his, and set about to correct the problem. The dolls were the obvious problem, but he could find no damage, they were filled with her essence, active fragments, just as such things should be. Yet they were without motion or will, as the Mother was a being of order and stillness." Elder Ying paused here, turning here, spreading her hands. "The other spirit however, was a being of chaos and motion, and so he considered that perhaps the stillness was the problem. He extended his own essence to the dolls, and made them dance."

Ling Qi couldn't help the slight snort of laughter that escaped her lips. Elder Ying, surprisingly, did not reproach her and instead let out a quiet chuckle herself. "This story makes Great Spirits seem very simple," Ling Qi noted. "Is that intentional?"

"Most likely," Elder Ying replied. "You must understand, that the beings of this time had no real comprehension of communication with one another just yet. The world was new, and they were in many ways as children.There are many treatises on the evolution of Great Spirits, if the subject has your interest. For now though, simply keep that in mind as we continue," she answered kindly. "Now, this of course startled the Mother, who had been so embroiled in despair that she had not noticed the approach of the Other. She grew excited for the dolls before her acted without her will, she could perceive the existence of the other being before her though, and it quickly became clear that he was the source. Her mood fell, as she realized it was only another Great Spirit playing with her discarded creations," Ling Qi cocked her head to the side. What must it have been like, to simply be fundamentally unable to communicate at all like that. "The other spirit saw her plunging mood and thought furiously about a solution. To a being such as him it was obvious. The dolls needed more motion. He poured greater essence into the effort, going so far as to longer puppet the dolls, but to infuse them himself," Elder Ying smiled. "And so, his essence mingled with the Mothers, and from it was born two things. Understanding, and the very first humans."

"So, we are different because we were created?" Ling Qi ventured a guess. "We aren't… natural the way spirits are?"

"That is roughly correct," Elder Ying replied. "To summarize the rest of the tale, from their new understanding, the Mother and the Father found happiness and fulfillment for a time, but other spirits found their mingling of essence, the 'impurity' wrought by allowing oneself to be affected and changed by another being to be repugnant, and an abomination. The two were attacked, and most of their first human children slain, but this proved a mistake, wrought by the other spirits ignorance and incomprehension. The Father and the Mother were mighty beyond compare, and the assault enraged them. They reshaped the very world into what we know today, slaying dozens of their kin before sacrificing everything down to their names, to forge a world where their children could live and prosper. This is why Great Spirits can no longer interact directly with the world, and its nature is no longer ephemeral, but ordered and solid."
The Nameless Mother could create Substance, but not Motion or Mind.
The Nameless Father's first efforts created dolls with motion but not mind.
By infusing more of himself, he created humans.

Most of the prototype humans were slain by the other Great Spirits due to being wrought of impurity. Nothing was said of the leftover dolls with motion but not mind(the mindless Stage 0s?) The awakened received both Motion and Mind.

I reckon we're looking at the descendants of survivors of the first prototype humans. Living within the Nameless Mother, they could not be killed. As the closest to the human origin they may be nearly immortal, being the closest to the original dolls of clay, but as early design the energy wasn't so well melded and tended to degrade the container at higher intensities?

Freedom to Choose includes the power to choose one's loyalty.

Han Feng can take it back at anytime, and the fact that he has elected to double-down on his own personal choice is why he fits it so well. Perhaps slightly better thematically than even Ji Rong as shown that while Rong is willing to give his all he never fully believed that he could lose and so lacked that desperate push.

Han Feng has it, but lacks the talent and the Talent to make use of it and isn't that just the story of the Empire in a nutshell.
Thunder is ambition, decisive action and conflict.
Its the element of Choice.

IIRC Han Fang cultivates mostly Thunder, Han Jian mainly cultivated Thunder and Mountain(at least before he chose to go finish off the Argent Arts), while Heijin is a White Tiger, which is traditionally of the element of Metal.

Which is funny because of the elemental associations:
-Thunder is as ambitious and decisive.
-Mountain is steadfast and resolute.
-Metal is brave and rational.

Han Jian is a terrible fit for all of the above in the year we knew him. He wants everyone to be happy, and tries to bend to fit everyone. He'd make a great Earth, Wood or Lake cultivator though.
Han Fang on the other hand is a great fit for all three of the Han elements that we know of. He lacks the material resources and bloodline advantages, but as far as personality fits go he's perfect.
I . . . hope he redeems himself a bit. Honestly he's a good character, he's just not like. Good for us lololol. Just look how he treated his original clique/allies
1. Xiulan was broken, tribulated, left his faction
2. Fan Who was broken, still broken, lost his wife
3. Han Fang had to do everything for himself, and ultimately failed without enough backing/support.
4. Ling Qi was sort of ignored, not properly integrated. She left.
Actually he did his damndest to drive Ling Qi away for her own good apparently. He just wasn't very good at it.
 
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Story of his life.

And I do agree with his ill fitting elements. Maybe the Argent Arts rounded him out enough? Though I cant remember what Argent Arts he had other than Argent Current.
He has all of the basic set. Getting and using three of the argent arts unlocks the fourth argent art. There was argent current which LanLan gave him, argent mirror which we traded with him, and argent storm that he found in his own trial. With those three he would have unlocked argent pulse.
 
A bit of a hint:

The Nameless Mother could create Substance, but not Motion or Mind.
The Nameless Father's first efforts created dolls with motion but not mind.
By infusing more of himself, he created humans.

Most of the prototype humans were slain by the other Great Spirits due to being wrought of impurity. Nothing was said of the leftover dolls with motion but not mind(the mindless Stage 0s?) The awakened received both Motion and Mind.

I reckon we're looking at the descendants of survivors of the first prototype humans. Living within the Nameless Mother, they could not be killed. As the closest to the human origin they may be nearly immortal, being the closest to the original dolls of clay, but as early design the energy wasn't so well melded and tended to degrade the container at higher intensities?
The theory I've been tossing around - and I have no idea if it's already been suggested; I haven't been following this thread for long - is that the "fallen star" thing from Turn 5 Arc 2 is entirely literal, and there's an actual fallen star encysted somewhere down here, filling the caverns with the primordial poison of unfiltered starlight. The Shishigui would then be the descendants of the "children of the stars" mentioned in this sidestory.

If it's true, it would suggest some things about the value of sun and moon arts against them, and possibly also Heaven arts, which would explain why Ji Rong is here. Elder Jiao may be working on some sort of Venom-Filtering Moonlight art to enable safe incursions by more powerful cultivators.
 
The Bai girl had broken through just a few weeks ago, she acted like some vicious ghost from an old story, stalking the cross roads and challenging anyone not aligned with Cai who crossed her path, she'd broken Fan Yu's elbow just last month.
Fen breaking Fan Yu's arm.

Is this becoming some sort of Bai family tradition?


That wasn't even thinking of the Cai's faction. Su Ling remained a hermit, but since the attack, she had been cooperating closely with them, and everyone knew she was churning out elixirs and pills at a ferocious rate.
Good news! I'm pretty sure Su Ling won't be actual competition. Because a) she's a crafter and b) I'm pretty sure she's getting a direct promotion to the inner sect after this mission.

Oh wait sorry, that's probably not actually comforting at all.

I just wanted to boast about Su Ling.
 
IIRC Han Fang cultivates mostly Thunder, Han Jian mainly cultivated Thunder and Mountain(at least before he chose to go finish off the Argent Arts), while Heijin is a White Tiger, which is traditionally of the element of Metal.
Han Jian cultivated Wind/Earth, and Heijin is Wind.
Yeah as mentioned Han Jian began with Fire/Wind, then began working on Earth soon after. The argent arts meant he dabbled in most every other elements like Ling Qi also did, but his big ticket arts were Fire/Wind/Earth. He might decide to give more of a focus on the Argent arts than his own family arts later, I guess, but what I suspect is that Argent Pulse will be more of a "showing off to the Argent Sect for relationship reasons" thing and being helped with being earth, one of the elements he cultivates.

It would be interesting if he discarded the Han way for the Argent way, but this kind of decisiveness would not only goes against a lot of his own personality, but also it might create issues with his dad.

What with his dad being the heir of the Han, and having his only child discarding the Han way.

EDIT: week 1 on RR
Han Jian had wind-aligned meridians open in his legs, as well as fire-aligned meridians through his heart and spine. A practitioner essentially had a limited amount of space in their body to use for channeling qi, which allowed the use of arts. A meridian could only channel a single type of qi at a time, limiting the number of arts a cultivator could use. As one grew in power, their body could withstand the opening of more meridians, allowing them a greater breadth of techniques.
 
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It would be interesting if he discarded the Han way for the Argent way, but this kind of decisiveness would not only goes against a lot of his own personality, but also it might create issues with his dad.

What with his dad being the heir of the Han, and having his only child discarding the Han way.
...huh, if you focus on that thought and:
"Hmph, shameful was correct, you have given up," Heijin replied coldly, and Han Jian felt the tigers displeasure as a churning in his dantian. He grimaced at the discomfort. Heijin was at the peak of second realm, and would likely break through in time for the tournament. Luckily, his families Dust King Meditations allowed one to hold a spirit in the third realm, if at inflated costs. It was making him arrogant again though.

"There are only so many places," he said quietly as much to himself as the cub. '...And Xiulan needs it more.' He added, a silent thought that could only be heard by his spirit companion.

He could feel Heijin's discomfort, the cub liked her, but he knew he was betraying his family in a small way, putting her needs over his own. He looked down as the memory of her tears, and then her anger returned to his thoughts. He could at least do this, try to help her one more time. He wouldn't lose anything irretrievable if he held off for one year. Hopefully it could make up for hurting her the way he had.

He was betraying Fan Yu too, even if he was sure that was for the best in the end. There could be no happiness there, or even contentment. If he repeated it to himself often enough, he might even believe that was really his reasoning.

He wished things between the Gu and the Han were simpler, that his silly childish promise wasn't impossible, because his Grandfather would never give the Gu another lever of power, not when they were already testing the limits of a viscount house's power. For once, he was happy for the scrutiny of the Guo, preventing Grandfather from moving to cement his authority further.

He heard the thump of flesh on metal and looked up to meet his cousins eyes, the taller boy grinned at him and motioned with his hands. 'The trade went well?'

"It did," He said, smiling back. It was so easy to put on an expression he wasn't feeling that he didn't even notice doing it anymore, for the most part. "We'll be able to Master the first step of the Argent Way now. You'll definitely get a spot in next years tourney." Between them, they knew that Han Fang would not make the cut this year, the competition was simply too much.
His inner monologue as he resolved himself to master Argent Mirror DID focus an awful lot on the things he was betraying.
He finally made a resolution there, but its not stated what.
 
The betrayal being discussed in that section of the story was pretty clearly Han Jian's prioritization of Gu Xiulan's chances for the tournament over his own and, by extension, the prestige of his family. Ceding the edge in the tournament to Gu Xiulan is a betrayal of Fan Yu because it affords her the opportunity to make good on her aims and get out of the engagement. Everything in this scene comes down to Gu Xiulan and the tournament; the mention of the Argent Way is only out loud to Han Fang at the end, with no connection to any of the previous internal monologue, and immediately after he highlights the disconnect between his inwards thoughts and feelings and his outward expression.

He even thinks to himself that he "wouldn't lose anything irretrievable if he held off for one year" which makes it absolutely clear that he's not pondering a significant long-term departure from his family's Way in favor of the Argent path. The passage is about his entry into the Inner Sect. On a thorough reading, there's no textual support for the idea that his resolution is related to the Argent Way or any of its arts.
 
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Han Jian is a terrible fit for all of the above in the year we knew him. He wants everyone to be happy, and tries to bend to fit everyone. He'd make a great Earth, Wood or Lake cultivator though.
Han Fang on the other hand is a great fit for all three of the Han elements that we know of. He lacks the material resources and bloodline advantages, but as far as personality fits go he's perfect.
Actually he did his damndest to drive Ling Qi away for her own good apparently. He just wasn't very good at it.
It would be interesting if he discarded the Han way for the Argent way, but this kind of decisiveness would not only goes against a lot of his own personality, but also it might create issues with his dad.
He finally made a resolution there, but its not stated what.
it'd be pretty wild if Han Jian becomes a villian, as a direct result of the events that happen here.
What I could easily see happening, at this point:

Han Jian and Han Fang both make it to the tournament, but it's still packed with enough monsters that it's not a sure thing both of them will win. Han Jian might still be ahead of Han Fang, might not. Whichever it is, Han Fang punches Han Jian out of the Tournament, possibly as an attempt at claiming Han Jian's position as heir.

Han Jian lets him, part out of surprise at the betrayal, part because Han Fang is fighting with him for something he doesn't actually want.
 
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What I could easily see happening, at this point:

Han Jian and Han Fang both make it to the tournament, but it's still packed with enough monsters that it's not a sure thing both of them will win. Han Jian might still be ahead of Han Fang, might not. Whichever it is, Han Fang punches Han Jian out of the Tournament, possibly as an attempt at claiming Han Jian's position as heir.

Han Jian lets him, part out of surprise at the betrayal, part because Han Fang is fighting with him for something he doesn't actually want.
I'd be shocked. Fang's internal monologue is pretty clear that his ambition is other-focused: that he wants to get strong and kick ass for the sake of Jian.
For Han Jian, he would scale the highest mountain of the Wall. He would face any enemy, no matter how overwhelming. For his brother, his foolish, too kind brother, he would do anything. How could he let something as petty as his own limits stand in the path of that?
 
Han Fang's both intensely personally loyal and adopted, so him becoming heir's heir is impossible, and he'd forfeit if paired up against Han Jian. Well. Probably not actually forfeiting, but definitely wouldn't actually land a winning blow.

But because of that kind of issue, the Argent Sect would never place them in brackets where they'd have to fight each other until after the Inner Sect advancement cutoff. Besides making for a poor show(like it was when Kang fought a much weaker subordinate for his qualifying match), it would be a direct insult to the Han clan.

Also, the only reason Han Jian slowed his pace last year was so Gu Xiulan had an opportunity to pull ahead and push through the tournament. It's not like the guy doesn't want to make it into the Inner Sect, he just had different priorities. partly owing to the enormous privilege of being a high noble scion. Han Jian definitely wants into the Inner Sect, and he even happily benefits from Gu Xiulan being gone so it won't even be awkward.
 
I'd be shocked. Fang's internal monologue is pretty clear that his ambition is other-focused: that he wants to get strong and kick ass for the sake of Jian.
Purely left to his own devices, probably.

Trick is, so far he is holding much closer to Grampa Han's Way, and as Arkeus points out about Han Jian following a different Way:
it might create issues with his dad.

What with his dad being the heir of the Han, and having his only child discarding the Han way.
Such a betrayal isn't against the Han way, from what we've seen of it - and I can definitely see a hard old man deciding that he can't afford the political costs of his heir discarding his Way at the moment. Having a "wastrel son" get trampled on the climb of an adoptee who better fits his Way might be considered preferable.

And Han Fang already sees Han Jian as too kind, which is only a step away from too weak.
 
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