There Was A Different Idea: An MCU Producer Quest

How about making a show about the Thunderbolts to undercut any attempt DC would have to use Suicide Squad? The catch would be that this team would be full of former supervillains who legitimately reformed and became superheroes. The conflict could be between them legitimately fighting crime and the authorities watching them like a hawk for even the slightest sign of them returning to their old ways. I just like the idea of a show following a team of former supervillains who are still getting a handle on the whole "superhero" thing.

This would be after Avengers, naturally.
 
How about making a show about the Thunderbolts to undercut any attempt DC would have to use Suicide Squad? The catch would be that this team would be full of former supervillains who legitimately reformed and became superheroes. The conflict could be between them legitimately fighting crime and the authorities watching them like a hawk for even the slightest sign of them returning to their old ways. I just like the idea of a show following a team of former supervillains who are still getting a handle on the whole "superhero" thing.

This would be after Avengers, naturally.
Eh if Thunderbolts becomes a thing it shouldn't be until after Avengers 2 at minimum I think. The world is just starting to turn into a superpowered clusterfuck. Buuuut~ Helmut Zemo leading it as penance for his father's sins would be an awesome way to do it when it happens~

Also BIG WHEEL is a must when he becomes an option with Spiderman rights. ALL SHALL KNEEL BEFORE THE WHEEL! Played by Will Ferrel of course.
 
Eh if Thunderbolts becomes a thing it shouldn't be until after Avengers 2 at minimum I think. The world is just starting to turn into a superpowered clusterfuck. Buuuut~ Helmut Zemo leading it as penance for his father's sins would be an awesome way to do it when it happens~

Also BIG WHEEL is a must when he becomes an option with Spiderman rights. ALL SHALL KNEEL BEFORE THE WHEEL! Played by Will Ferrel of course.
Good point. There could still be some setup in Phase II before the show is released sometime in Phase III.

One idea I just got regarding Helmut Zemo is that he might be going by a pseudonym as a way of breaking from the legacy of his Hydra fanatic father and grandfather. Because his family's legacy would damage the legitimacy of his team. Which comes with the possibility of using another villain as Helmut's new identity and superhero name.

And along with more jokey villains like Big Wheel, there should be some heavy-hitters recruited into the Thunderbolts.
 
And along with more jokey villains like Big Wheel, there should be some heavy-hitters recruited into the Thunderbolts.
Crossbones, Taskmaster, Abomination, Asbestos lady, there's lots of fun villains you can throw into the team. The balance can be fun too, yeah you have the badass movie villains but you also have this dude Iron Man beat up in ten minutes offscreen.
 
Crossbones, Taskmaster, Abomination, Asbestos lady, there's lots of fun villains you can throw into the team. The balance can be fun too, yeah you have the badass movie villains but you also have this dude Iron Man beat up in ten minutes offscreen.

Heh, I mean… technically both the Abomination and Taskmaster were in the OG MCU, though not as most fans would want.
 
Alright, ideas for Avengers?

Let's set the stage.

Major Characters

Avengers
Iron Man
Captain America
Thor
Wonder Man
Hawkeye
Mockingbird
Hulk?

SHIELD
Nick Fury
Maria Hill
Coulson
Nefaria (SHIELD consultant/potentially brainwashed by Loki)

Other & Side Characters
Bruce Banner?
Pepper
Madame Masque?
War Machine?
Black Widow?
Eric Williams?
Etc.

Antagonists
Loki
Kree
Nefaria (SHIELD consultant/potentially brainwashed by Loki)

Thoughts Regarding Nefaria

Movie could start with Nefaria studying the Tesseract at a SHIELD lab. Perhaps he's requested the ability to study the Tesseract and Power stones together but was denied by Nick Fury. Either way, Nefaria is at SHIELD right now and they have both the Space and Power stones. Perhaps one of the experiments he is prepping to run in secret is an experiment to find any Infinity Stones that exist on Earth using the space stone. He gets a result but easily scrubs the data after memorizing the Longitude and Latitude of the stone so only he remains with the knowledge. (This will be setup for future reality stone in Phase 2, perhaps a post-credit scene is Nefaria prepping an expedition with Maggia agents after to find the reality stone).

At some point during or after the experiment, Loki forces himself through the portal with his staff, attacks SHIELD, etc. Maybe Nefaria has been evacuated by Nick Fury while Maria Hill extracts the power stone from the facility so both stones don't fall into enemy hands. He serves more as a scientist role from then on, having an interesting dynamic with Tony (and Bruce Banner if he's included) and perhaps also Simon Williams? Depending on if Simon knows who Nefaria is or not.

Considering we have introduced the power stone into the story we should find a way for it to have a narrative use. Perhaps someone (mind controlled agent?) sabotages the arc reactor in Tony's suit and Nefaria hooks up the power stone to it to save his life as an alternate source of energy, using his knowledge of the stones. This could be a good moment to heighten the tension and also redeem Nefaria in the eyes of the audience for his experiment being the reason Loki arrived to Earth.

Edit: If Nefaria is mind controlled instead of evacuated, perhaps this could happen near the end of the movie to redeem him after the mind control wears off, but we still need the power stone to have a narrative for the middle of the movie

We've also had Black Widow working for Nefaria in the past, so perhaps he could have hired her to steal the power stone back from SHIELD while all the chaos is going on? Or maybe we could keep the stones under the possession of SHIELD at the end of the movie, while Nefaria plots his next move and waits for an opportune time to steal both stones later in Avengers 2. (sometime after SHIELD falls apart from double agents). Similarily, Madame Masque as the daughter of Nefaria could have a role in the film acting in his interests even if he's mind controlled or being watched closely by SHIELD.

Lastly, we could have it so Nick Fury failed to evacuate Nefaria at the beginning of the movie, so Nefaria is mind-controlled by Loki and being the one that is building a portal for Loki like Erik Selvig was in the first Avengers. Except give him more lines critiquing the intelligence of Loki's plans and mocking how he seems to be relying on the Kree to accept their part of a bargain and so on. Perhaps he also gives some fatherly advice to Loki like Odin never could that Loki takes later on, planting the seed for redemption / Loki character arc in future movies. This probably makes more sense than the alternative, also gives a reason for Nefaria to not be plotting for his own side throughout the movie and he could have a redeeming moment near the end of the movie.

Thoughts Regarding Kree

We need to figure out what the Kree are planning, what their relationship to Loki is like, how that influences Loki's plan, and so on.

Perhaps the Kree are helping Loki build a stable portal from their planet to Earth that is self-sustaining even without the Tesseract, so they can easily conquer Earth and use it as a stepping stone to conquer the rest of the Nine Realms and grow their empire to give them an edge against the Skrulls in their never-ending war?

We could also introduce Hexus for later by having Kree Agents ingratiate themselves with a fake identity and introducing the Hexus parasite on earth (Edit: Or just finding someone to infect with the parasite and leaving), with their end goal to use it to extract as much resources from Earth and the rest of the Nine Realms for their war effort. Perhaps their plan is two-pronged. They simultaneously help Loki with his plan while also introducing the Hexus parasite for if Loki fails or betrays them.

This is the Kree thought pattern (not shown/told in the movie itself but it's still good to think about what the characters are thinking):
  • If Loki succeeds, they help prop up his rule and extract resources for their war effort directly, using the Mind stone to contain the parasite for later as it wouldn't be needed. (Obviously this would never come to fruition because Loki will be defeated by the Avengers)
  • If Loki fails, the parasite is a backup option that will extract resources from Earth without the Kree needing direct control or access, and spread across the Nine Realms portion of space to extract resources for the Kree war effort, building up as a background threat throughout Phase 2 until a mid-phase crossover event movie deals with the Hexus Corporation that was born from the parasite's influence.

Eh if Thunderbolts becomes a thing it shouldn't be until after Avengers 2 at minimum I think. The world is just starting to turn into a superpowered clusterfuck. Buuuut~ Helmut Zemo leading it as penance for his father's sins would be an awesome way to do it when it happens~
I agree. We should have a "regular" big villain team-up in Avengers 2 before we have a big team-up of reformed villains.
 
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Alright, ideas for Avengers?

Definitely agree with what you've outlined. I'll admit I'm not overly familiar with the Kree but them propping up Loki as ruler of a planet for their war sounds perfect. Set up how big of a threat they are, Earth is just a dustball they can use for resources in a much bigger conflict. Nearly unimportant. Loki gets to play dictator, Kree get portals, everyone but Earth wins! Galactic politics at their finest.

My only recommendation is maybe have Ronan the Accuser as a villain alongside Loki as the main military face of the Kree, play off him as a much more serious baddie. Yeah we did it in Captain America but it works and we're already partnering Loki with the Kree. It also would help remind everyone that for all Loki's bravado, he is a dog on a short leash belonging to one of the galaxy's mightiest empires.

Can have stuff like him facing off against Thor hammer v hammer or scoffing at how primitive Iron Man's suit is before the might of the Kree.
 
Crossbones, Taskmaster, Abomination, Asbestos lady, there's lots of fun villains you can throw into the team. The balance can be fun too, yeah you have the badass movie villains but you also have this dude Iron Man beat up in ten minutes offscreen.
And there'd be some humor regarding some of these villains. Like how Asbestos Lady is coughing up a lung because the moron decided to cover herself in poison.

Or the D-list villains deciding they were tired being kicked around by heroes and they wanted to try their hand being D-list heroes instead. The possibilities are endless.

And there's the idea that they get the impression that one of the "big guns" wants to betray the team when, plot twist, he actually enjoys being a superhero.
Heh, I mean… technically both the Abomination and Taskmaster were in the OG MCU, though not as most fans would want.
Here's a hot take: Taskmaster's secret identity is garbage. Or at least his real name is. You know what it is? Tony Masters. Tony Masters. Most of Marvel's supervillains have creative names for their secret identities whereas it feels like they phoned it in with Taskmaster's. And I can at least respect what they were trying to accomplish by making the villain someone from Black Widow's past.
 
Well to be fair, Tony Masters runs a business where he trains agents on both the side of the law and villains alike. So he probably has his legal and identity situation all squared away with backroom deals and the like.
 
Here's a hot take: Taskmaster's secret identity is garbage. Or at least his real name is. You know what it is? Tony Masters. Tony Masters. Most of Marvel's supervillains have creative names for their secret identities whereas it feels like they phoned it in with Taskmaster's. And I can at least respect what they were trying to accomplish by making the villain someone from Black Widow's past.
As a major Taskmaster fan I'd just like to say I hate the Black Widow movie. Made ma boi a silent generic cyborg. Guy's one of my top 10 marvel villains! Number 1 is DOOM obviously. 2 is BIG WHEEL.
 
Definitely agree with what you've outlined. I'll admit I'm not overly familiar with the Kree but them propping up Loki as ruler of a planet for their war sounds perfect. Set up how big of a threat they are, Earth is just a dustball they can use for resources in a much bigger conflict. Nearly unimportant. Loki gets to play dictator, Kree get portals, everyone but Earth wins! Galactic politics at their finest.

My only recommendation is maybe have Ronan the Accuser as a villain alongside Loki as the main military face of the Kree, play off him as a much more serious baddie. Yeah we did it in Captain America but it works and we're already partnering Loki with the Kree. It also would help remind everyone that for all Loki's bravado, he is a dog on a short leash belonging to one of the galaxy's mightiest empires.

Can have stuff like him facing off against Thor hammer v hammer or scoffing at how primitive Iron Man's suit is before the might of the Kree.
Yeah, could be fun. Especially Nefaria lecturing Loki on how he's a pawn in the Kree's game. I find the idea of Nefaria still managing to snark Loki despite being mind controlled to be funny, especially if Loki actually grows to respect his wisdom.

And it's smart to introduce Ronan as a major Kree agent so the audience has someone they can point to that represents the Kree government in this movie.
 
Considering we have introduced the power stone into the story we should find a way for it to have a narrative use. Perhaps someone (mind controlled agent?) sabotages the arc reactor in Tony's suit and Nefaria hooks up the power stone to it to save his life as an alternate source of energy, using his knowledge of the stones. This could be a good moment to heighten the tension and also redeem Nefaria in the eyes of the audience for his experiment being the reason Loki arrived to Earth.

You know, we could get crazy with it because Loki's staff actually contains the Mind Stone which is capable of creating entirely new consciousness rather than just mind control.

What if it is an entirely new personality/identity that takes over in place of typical mind control? The Kree could insert insurgents in an entirely novel way by placing their literal minds inside of other people.

We could have fake Nefaria sabotage Tony's suit, but also have him working to fix it as his real persona. Make it so the audience doesn't know who to trust because anyone could have been secretly turned into a Kree agent.

Definitely agree with what you've outlined. I'll admit I'm not overly familiar with the Kree but them propping up Loki as ruler of a planet for their war sounds perfect. Set up how big of a threat they are, Earth is just a dustball they can use for resources in a much bigger conflict. Nearly unimportant. Loki gets to play dictator, Kree get portals, everyone but Earth wins! Galactic politics at their finest.

This works, but if this is done we might want to have Asgard get involved… because technically Midgard (Earth) is one of the Nine Realms and thus part of their galactic government. The Kree could be betting on them not interfering because Loki is nominally a part of Asgard, but it doesn't work out because he's been exiled.

It would open up a really cool scene where we could have Thor port in the literal Einherjar to fight the alien invasion with the Bifrost.
 
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And it's smart to introduce Ronan as a major Kree agent so the audience has someone they can point to that represents the Kree government in this movie.

Also was looking for Ronan art and apparently his hammer is electric! Lol. Thor can call him a copycat. We definitely should put him in!

This works, but if this is done we might want to have Asgard get involved… because technically Midgard (Earth) is one of the Nine Realms and thus part of their galactic government. The Kree could be betting on them not interfering because Loki is nominally a part of Asgard, but it doesn't work out because he's been exiled.

It would open up a really cool scene where we could have Thor port in the literal Einherjar to fight the alien invasion with the Bifrost.
YESSSSS!

The rainbow bridge opens up, rock music plays as a horde of alien vikings descend onto the battlefield with Thor in the lead! Like a metal album cover in motion!

Also best DOOM design:
 
Well to be fair, Tony Masters runs a business where he trains agents on both the side of the law and villains alike. So he probably has his legal and identity situation all squared away with backroom deals and the like.
I wasn't talking about Taskmaster's personality. A villain smart enough to play both sides seems like a great character. I was just venting about how giving a villain named Task Master the secret identity of "Tony Masters" feels like they phoned it in a bit.
As a major Taskmaster fan I'd just like to say I hate the Black Widow movie. Made ma boi a silent generic cyborg. Guy's one of my top 10 marvel villains! Number 1 is DOOM obviously. 2 is BIG WHEEL.
I don't claim to be a Marvel expert at all. The only comic I collected as a kid were the Archie Sonic comics. I can at least sympathize with the pain of seeing a beloved character be adapted poorly. The benefit of quests like these is that we can prevent the MCU from being a collection of mediocre villains with Loki being the only stand-out villain. It's such a shame that most MCU villains are either generic or killed off after one movie.
 
This works, but if this is done we might want to have Asgard get involved… because technically Midgard (Earth) is one of the Nine Realms and thus part of their galactic government. The Kree we're betting on them not interfering because Loki is nominally a part of Asgard, but it doesn't work out because he's been exiled.

It would open up a really cool scene where we could have Thor port in the literal Einherjar to fight the alien invasion.
I don't recall if we had the Bifrost break or not, but between that and having to deal with Jotunheim peace before the first Thor movie, and now with the Kree looking to the Nine Realms as a potential place of expansion, I could imagine a Thor sequel could be Odin requesting Thor go out into space to learn about galatic politics and assess the situation, looking for potential allies, perhaps the Nova Empire.

The way I see it, The Kree are the big dog with the Skrulls not far behind, while the Nova Empire could be the largest neutral faction.

As for Asguard's role in Avengers itself, perhaps like in the MCU Avengers they could only send Thor with the Bifrost broken.

I think what could be best for galactic politics is if Asguard is the most powerful singular nation, but only within the actual Nine Realms itself (Bifrost and Heimdall). So if they want to expand their influence outside of the Nine Realms they will need allies.

YESSSSS!

The rainbow bridge opens up, rock music plays as a horde of alien vikings descend onto the battlefield with Thor in the lead! Like a metal album cover in motion!

Also best DOOM design:
The only issue with that is that it takes away the victory from the Avengers if the Asgardians just portal through a bunch of people to save the day.

Perhaps instead the Kree have been teleporting in a fleet of space ships as well and the Asguardians fight them in space combat while the Avengers are focused on Loki and closing the portal, and fighting the aliens that have already begun attacking New York.


Edit:

That way there is balance while also showing people Asguardians take their role protecting the Nine Realms seriously.

Which is partly why Brand Hex / Hexus corporation is such a brilliant backup move by the Kree because it appears to be a naturally occurring company from Midguard, so Asguard would see no reason to interfere until it is too late.
 
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YESSSSS!

The rainbow bridge opens up, rock music plays as a horde of alien vikings descend onto the battlefield with Thor in the lead! Like a metal album cover in motion!

Right!? It works so well, we know that Asgard does this too because they did it before in the comics and the MCU to stop the Frost Giants invading Earth.

I'm just imagining a scene where despite each Avenger vastly overpowering the average invading alien soldier, there is just wave after wave after wave of them along with alien transports and heavy artillery support. They slowly start being overwhelmed, and then boom.

Thor leads the armies of Asgard to their aid.

The only issue with that is that it takes away the victory from the Avengers if the Asgardians just portal through a bunch of people to save the day.

Not necessarily, the Avengers still have to find and beat down Loki to get back the Scepter and close the portal… otherwise the invasion continues just like a real siege.

Also, I'm not sure if the Bifrost broke… we'd have to ask @overmind. Even if it did… they're gods and we could have part of the movie be Thor helping them repair it or something.
 
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I cant find any mention of the Bifrost been destroyed in the planning stage for Thor or the Box office update. So i think it is still intact.
 
Right!? It works so well, we know that Asgard does this too because they did it before in the comics and the MCU to stop the Frost Giants invading Earth.

I'm just imagining a scene where despite each Avenger vastly overpowering the average invading alien soldier, there is just wave after wave after wave of them along with alien transports and heavy artillery support. They slowly start being overwhelmed, and then boom.

Thor leads the armies of Asgard to their aid.
Another good thing about Thor doing this is that it reduces the script complexity by having him not join the main fight until later in the film, having his part be smaller about repairing the Bifrost until then.

I cant find any mention of the Bifrost been destroyed in the planning stage for Thor or the Box office update. So i think it is still intact.
To be fair a lot of smaller details have been kept out of plot summary until we got the Captain America summary, so if it wasn't mentioned either way I assume it's the same as the original.

Speaking of, could we potentially have a plot summary of the movies so far @overmind ? It could help us a lot now that we're planning for Avengers to make everything flow nicely and build on prior themes.
 
Not necessarily, the Avengers still have to find and beat down Loki to get back the Scepter and close the portal… otherwise the invasion continues just like a real siege.

Also, I'm not sure if the Bifrost broke… we'd have to ask @overmind. Even if it did… they're gods and we could have part of the movie be Thor helping them repair it or something.
Not broken, but with Heimdall wounded (Perhaps dead if you guys choose to not include him in the next movie) the use of it has been heavily restricted to prevent further invasions.

It makes diplomacy a bitch and a half. Thor hasn't been able to see Jane because he knows the peace talks are more important.
Speaking of, could we potentially have a plot summary of the movies so far @overmind ? It could help us a lot now that we're planning for Avengers to make everything flow nicely and build on prior themes.
To do a full summary of all the movies would take longer than a few minutes. Tell you what, you ask me what you need to know from the movies for now and I'll try and answer your questions.
 
We could have the reason there hasn't been a hulk movie be because loki captured Bruce banner and is holding onto a mind stoned berserker hulk as a Ace in the hole.
 
Not broken, but with Heimdall wounded (Perhaps dead if you guys choose to not include him in the next movie) the use of it has been heavily restricted to prevent further invasions.

It makes diplomacy a bitch and a half. Thor hasn't been able to see Jane because he knows the peace talks are more important.
For some reason I imagine Asguard hiring Nefaria to upgrade the Bifrost to be a little easier to use, increase the connectivity of Asguard to the rest of the Nine Realms.

Could be interesting, maybe he networks with the Asguardians and hires a former threat as part of his Masters of Evil team.

We could have the reason there hasn't been a hulk movie be because loki captured Bruce banner and is holding onto a mind stoned berserker hulk as a Ace in the hole.
Nah. Loki hasn't stepped foot on Earth yet, especially with the Wonder Man credit scene.

I would rather just have him laying low for awhile, perhaps looking for clues of The Leader's whereabouts as he was kept alive, but not being able to find him.

So with this, we need a reason as to why or how Thor comes to Earth's defense when he does, perhaps part of the delay is simply gathering a bunch of Asguardian troops and vessels and preparing them all for transport? With Heimdall out of the picture, perhaps Jane and Darcy working together to send a message to Thor asking for assistance is what it takes for them to realize something is wrong?
 
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International Box Office: $362,793,316
Honestly those are better international numbers than we could have hoped for, considering. Kudos to our team on that one.

On that note this is the highest grossing WWII film of all time by a disgusting margin. Absolutely marvelous.

It's almost a shame that bringing most of the characters back will be next to impossible, but, well. I'd rather make a good movie that stands on its own and finishes its subplots than a mediocre movie that sets up a load of sequel hooks.
 

Imagine this only it's an entire army of Asgardian Einherjar and Valkyries behind Thor's back charging down from the heavens and the armies of the Kree below firing lazers and shit in slow motion! Thunderstruck blasting!

There are some things that make grown men squee, this is one of them.
 
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