The ninja way knows neither good nor evil - NINJA GAIDEN RETURNS

Ford Prefect

What is Project Zohar?
Location
The Hague
Pronouns
He/Him
A few days ago I was idly thinking to myself 'I wonder what a Ninja Gaiden II Black would have been like' and 'the people are ready for Ninja Gaiden 4.' With the Ragebound announcement I also wondered whether there might be a future for the singular super ninja and human blender Ryu Hayabusa, if that game does well.

Anyway.


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MFjWCZIVZDw


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=08vbgX9lpWY

Ninja Gaiden II Black wasn't just announced it was dropped TODAY. Ninja Gaiden 4 is out THIS YEAR.

NG2 was a game I really liked but that was held back by some awkward elements and sequences: a few poorly designed bosses that went well beyond difficult and were simply frustrating, and fairly obviously not as well designed. The Sigma version polished a few of those up and added additional weapons and playable characters, but was somewhat marred by the drop in enemy density. This looks to be the definitive version.

Platinum being on development for NG4 doesn't excite me like it once would have, and honestly even at their peak I don't know that they would have been a great fit for this series. It's quite a different style of brawler. However the director is a former Tamsoft guy which is kind of a fascinating choice so I'm curious to play it when it's out (again THIS YEAR).
 
My only experience with Ninja Gaiden is the old NES games. The ones that were brutally unfair with how enemies respawned off screen when it came to some of the platforming sections.

I don't think I ever played any of the 3D ones, but they look great!
 
My only experience with Ninja Gaiden is the old NES games. The ones that were brutally unfair with how enemies respawned off screen when it came to some of the platforming sections.

I don't think I ever played any of the 3D ones, but they look great!

The 3D games can also be a little unfair lol, but they're fun. It's hard to say they're underrated because they were a pretty big deal when they were released, but Ninja Gaiden Black is at least the equal of the best Devil May Cry games and Ninja Gaiden II always had that potential. If you like this kind of brawler, I'd recommend them.
 
My only experience with Ninja Gaiden is the old NES games. The ones that were brutally unfair with how enemies respawned off screen when it came to some of the platforming sections.

I don't think I ever played any of the 3D ones, but they look great!

the 3D ninja gaidens might be the hardest games ever made imo

Master Ninja is only there as a taunt, a reminder that no matter how far mankind comes there will be always be something impossible in the universe

(no I am not accepting any evidence at this time, clearly all those videos are ai)
 
Apparently closer to Sigma 2 than OG Black with seemingly quite a few reductions in enemy count. Going to play it now.
My only experience with Ninja Gaiden is the old NES games. The ones that were brutally unfair with how enemies respawned off screen when it came to some of the platforming sections.

I don't think I ever played any of the 3D ones, but they look great!
The OG NG2 on Xbox 360 was absolutely fucking insane on the Master Ninja Difficulty. Especially the final third of the game. Oh jesus the Incendary Shuriken spam by IS Ninjas.

I hope modders on PC will add a lot of the crazier, higher enemy counts of the OG 360 version because I need that.
 
now give me an all action Dead or Alive.

Hear, hear. DOA6 is serviceable--and in fact, represents the general trend of a 3D fighting games basically becoming very similar for the sake of tournament standardization--but it's a tragedy that we've been deprived of a new 4-player-tag-team 3D fighter since DOA5 (or, arguably, its height under DOA4, which is still a masterpiece though with more limited content); the franchise was the best at that (and massively multi-tiered combat arenas, which was not conducive to tournament play but goddamn was it amazing, especially twenty years ago).

(Assuming that's what you meant.)

Apparently closer to Sigma 2 than OG Black with seemingly quite a few reductions in enemy count. Going to play it now.

The OG NG2 on Xbox 360 was absolutely fucking insane on the Master Ninja Difficulty. Especially the final third of the game. Oh jesus the Incendary Shuriken spam by IS Ninjas.

I hope modders on PC will add a lot of the crazier, higher enemy counts of the OG 360 version because I need that.

To copiously and vainly quote myself on the very deliberate (at least on its surface) design decision.

For those wondering (I was), it's a (maybe surprising) acknowledgement from KT that Hayashi's directorial vision of Ninja Gaiden 2 (which he took over after Itagaki was fired, taking some other Team Ninja veterans with him to set out on their own) was not actually the "definitive" or even "best" one. Ninja Gaiden Sigma 2 was re-engineered port of the Xbox 360 title, a few years later, onto Playstation 3, with some deliberate artistic alterations and additional content. It also encountered the same problem most Xbox 360 to Playstation 3 port--and even many multiplatform launch releases, like GTA4 after it--namely, significantly worst performance even without considering Sony's design specification for a higher HD upscale than Microsoft's own Xbox (Final Fantasy XIII is another useful case study--it runs as a higher resolution on Playstation, but is far more successful maintaining 30 FPS on Xbox).

Given that the original 2004 Xbox predecessor was considered a technical marvel, and ran at 60 FPS, and that was the intended goal of much-more-advanced sequel in 2008 on Xbox 360, this put Hayashi in an obvious problem. The game ran into regular slowdown 60 FPS on Xbox 360, owed largely to extremely high enemy counts in certain areas and/or copious dismemberment and volumetric blood effects (dismemberment is actually a gameplay mechanic; a visual cue for enemy's behavioral state, and also an improvised weapon for some who can pick up limbs of fallen brethren). The PS3 port, as expected, ran worse (I can't really find an example of an Xbox 360 port to Playstation 3 that doesn't, but there probably is somewhere), and Hayashi wanted additional lighting effects, higher fidelity player models (for new costumes), and additional content. The new content--levels for Rachel, Ayane, and franchise newcomer Momiji--weren't really the issue, the state of the rest of the game was.

So basically, at Hayashi's direction all volumetric blood effects were cut (and replaced with much cheaper "glow" effects), dismemberment and corpse physics removed, and enemy counts were culled by varying amounts, sometimes half, sometimes more.

From his perspective, presumably, this was a great solution: even substantially raising HP counts with the remaining enemies, the game was generally easier (since Hayabusa's move set was only slightly expanded and not handicapped, Team Ninja had actually gotten a lot of complaints about violence in the franchise (I realize that seems quaint, with the success of chainsaw-driven Gears of War, and the outright comedic levels of gore and sex in God of War) and had to do things like remove decapitations for certain regions.

It also made the "rest of the game" substantially worse. In a game where, just like Devil May Cry or God of War or Bayonetta, the entire gameplay loop is managing large volumes of enemies, recovering, and advancing the next encounter, halving or even outright removing entire enemy encounters in fact results in less game. Despite its flaws and the move from a Castlevania-style game world to more conventional distinct levels, Ninja Gaiden 2 on Xbox 36 was still, in fact, extremely well received; Itagaki knew what he was doing. Sigma 2, alluding to Hayashi's earlier Playstation-port in Ninja Gaiden Sigma, intended to be the definitive edition of Itagaki's sequel, is....a worse version of a really good game, and for many, many years, the only way to play Itagaki's sequel if you didn't own an Xbox 360 (or, later, subsequent Xbox consoles, which could play the title in backwards compatibility and brute force the periodic slowdown). And it still has performance problems on Playstation 3, because that's just how the seventh console generation was. And, because why not, there's a worse version, of a worse version, of Itagaki's very good game, the PS Vita release (which is technically impressive, but honestly pretty terrible).

Apparently Koei-Tecmo came out and said they called it "Ninja Gaiden Black 2" as a deliberate nod to "the definitive version of Ninja Gaiden", which isn't Hayashi's Ninja Gaiden Sigma. It's Ninja Gaiden Black, which was a sort of "GOTY" version of Ninja Gaiden, for Xbox (and Xbox 360), that proceeded it by years. Sorry Hayashi, you dun' goof'd, apparently.

That ended up being a lot more explanation than I planned for. I've played a couple hours of Black 2 via game pass on Xbox; its presentation is very clearly alluding to the Xbox 360 title, but with the Sigma 2 content (which...I like playing as Ayane and Rachel, it's just not really a tradeoff for the rest of the game) presented as a bonus content. The co-op challenges introduced in Sigma 2 are also present (NG2 had only singleplayer challenges). And, probably most importantly....the enemy counts are different. Unsurprisingly, the move to Unreal Engine on hardware almost 20 year newer has answered most of the questions about console slowdown, but likewise, there was no "switch" to flip to restore the original enemy counts; especially if KT's claim that Team Ninja "lost" the Xbox 360 source files is actually true. But there are more enemies, still distributed in successive waves.

So, it's better than Sigma 2. It certainly looks better than both games, without a doubt, though it's not a straight-out port of NG2. If you want that (which, almost twenty years later, you probably don't), you can play NG2 on the new Xbox Series consoles with zero slowdown and untouched enemy counts; it's still part of the Xbox One store (or you can use a disc).

As you can tell, I've thought a lot about Ninja Gaiden over the last 21 years. It's my Devil May Cry (well, except even Ninja Gaiden 3 is probably not Devil May Cry 2 terrible...maybe). As for Ninja Gaiden 4, without Itagaki I have no idea if KT or Platinum really have it in them to overcome NG3RE and capture that magic again. I think that window came and went, but who knows? I never expected a NG4 either.

tl;dr--Hayashi, thanks for your work, but turns out you're not going to have the last say in this. At all. No doubt a fair amount of that, aside from the Sigma 2 controversy, was the decidedly lukewarm response to NG3RE (perhaps the fault of seemingly positive response to the original NG3; it came to the WiiU, the original Xbox disk demo from a decade earlier could've come to the WiiU and the very small user base would've treated it as mana from a generous god), and people not being happy with the Master Trilogy either.

But, again, I was an Itagaki's NG fanatic two decades ago. I'm not sure Platinum (or KT) have it in them anymore, or if the entire genre simply isn't suited for that gameplay model. Bayonetta 3 was a very good game, or even more so, but compare the response to it to 2, or the first game. Things change and tastes change. We're all older now. And, as with DOA4, it's not like I can't still play Ninja Gaiden Black as good as it's ever looked, a x9 resolution scaling, and 60 FPS on an Xbox underneath my TV. So I'm torn between the two outcomes: whether it will actually capture what made those first two Xbox titles masterpieces, or what it would take to bring NG into the year of our lord 2025, and if those two points are actually reconcilable. Platinum isn't what they used to be either (indeed, Nier Automata, great as it is, only came after a few very obvious missteps).

It's natural to hope for the best, but I don't know where to go from here. It's not as obvious as it was a decade ago, "Yeah, this is how you wouldn't fuck up Ninja Gaiden 3 if that was your objective in the first place, Koei-Tecmo."
 
Back
Top