They might be quite scared hiding in the tombs that Settra got taken out but... that remains to be seen.
The Mallus Compliance (Space Marines in Warhammer Fantasy - Chapter Master/Empire Building)
- Thread starter FractiousDay
- Start date
- Fantasy
16 characters
Sick and tired of being Sick and Tired
- Location
- Alta California
- Pronouns
- They/Them
I was under the impression that our QM was just talking about the charnel valley still being patrolled, which is not really a tomb and sounds pretty active.
PDF equipment musings
- Location
- United Kingdom
I'll threadmark this for future referenceGunman said:
On PDF, this depends on how you want to fund them. You could, for example, go for a minimalist option of a victorian style single shot rifle armed contingnet, with associated artillery. This wouuld still defeat most enemies, but would have a lot of trouble in certain places. You could also mount said victorians.
Comparably, maximaist would be 'basically imperial guard' with lasguns, tanks, etc etc.
I would forsee four tiers of soldiers on Mallus
- local troops, hand weapons, knights and swords etc
- PDF autoguns and other stuff
- IG, lasguns and tanks
- Space Marines
Now PDF with guns will be vulnerable in some places. Notably, if a load of beastmen charge out of the woods on either side of a road they're patrolling, or goblins in the dark or something. Therefore there's places where their deployment simply wouldn't work very well. However, those places are the most dangerous places on mallus anyway so meh. PDF would be fine in almost all places. Additionally, just arming hte citizenry of Mallus with autoguns makes them massively more dangerous to various local wildlife. If a necromancer brings a horde of 500 zombies up to a village of 50 people and attacks, the necromancer is going to lose hard because those 50 people have 30 or more rounds each lol.
I digress. To return to my point, PDF can be equipped how you want to equip them. For example, ww1/2 soldiers didn't have body armour. You might say that there's no point in giving them armour, that than you'd rather give them more guns, but you might also say that body armour would be useful vs forces like skaven who want to get up close and stabby stab with their rusty knives. Anyway, I'll deal with that when youa ctually build some PDF. Obviously better equipped troops will be more expensive.
Last edited:
- Location
- United Kingdom
Labour Cost | Basic | Advanced | Exotic | Relic | Promethium | |
| H2 cost | 500 | 449 | 225 | 90 | 11 | |
| h2 upkeep | 44.9 | 22.5 | 9 | 1.1 | ||
| road+medium | 450 | 419 | 134 | 59 | 4 | 84 |
| r+m upkeep | 125 | 25 | 7.5 | 0 | 0 |
So H2 would cost more in the rarer resource types, but otherwise the prices are comparable. Keep in mind that H2 is a national project (1000 labour cost before bonuses applied) and therefore could produce more promethium, lets say, 80 per year vs the regional project of mangroves which is 20 per year. The mangroves internaitonal project is even larger, with 320 produced per year.
Also what are we thinking about stacking bonuses? I've given 2x25% bonuses for H2, but is this overpowered? I'm not sure. I imagine that hte electro preists could build an electolyser fairly easily, but would that stacking on top of the Fabricator bonus be over the top? I don't mind changing costs after hte fact but I wouldn't want people to feel sad about it etc.
No youv'e got surplus for it. You've got 2000 basic and 900 advanced free after the mangroves, ash road, bastion etc.
After your plan of mangroves, ash road, bastion you've got
labour 1195, basic 1990, advanced 885, exotic 23, relic 7, and promethium 101, thats your predicted surplus after 5 years, - the costs of projects chosen, -the upkeep of projects chosen.
H2 instead of ash+mangroves will change this a bit but not htat significantly.
Depends. Araby was more developed, and has therefore lost more due to sand being everywhere, eg lots of crops have died, rivers been made sandy etc beacuse of the storms. Comparably, the Land of Assassins was never highly populated so hasn't lost as much, and they don't have much sand because the mountains have protected them.However, they also dont have the infrastructure currently to set up stuff beacuse they've just never been as developed.
Easier really, rather than having you do it.
Keep in mind this is basically the same as Gunman's. You want the bastion a different place but they have the same points
Not really. You don't have a strategic migration capacity, or the fuel to run the capacity that you do have.
Pretty much. Gunman's idea is valid, but there's other ways of doing it. It depends what you want to acheive. 'Cooling down' the war is easy, actually conquering and subverting norsca is way harder. You'd probably have to wipe most of the northern tribes out for example, and majorly change the southern ones. This still wouldn't guarentee you'd succeed, but you're bascially fine with most of the military stuff. You can win the war but the peace is less easy.
From the wiki yea,
Few living souls dare to travel into the Charnel Valley, and none have ever returned, for these statues do not sit idly by — they constantly patrol the valley in search of trespassers, crunching the thick carpet of bones and skulls littering the valley floor to dust beneath their heavy footfalls. It is said that the greatest Necrotects of Nehekhara now reside within the Charnel Valley as they work tirelessly to re-sculpt the visages of these magnificent monuments, eroded by centuries of wind-swept sand and battered from endless years of warfare.[1a]
As to the rest of the TK, I won't speculate. YOu don't know enough IC currently. The Fulgurite Field broke them but htye didn't just all die, some are wandering aimlessly, some are hiding or fortifying etc, some are doign other stuff.
16 characters
Sick and tired of being Sick and Tired
- Location
- Alta California
- Pronouns
- They/Them
Oh huh if my plan is functionally identical to Gunmans I guess I'll just wait until I can properly vote on it. Voting is open but he hasn't formally submitted it( I don't think) so eh if Gunman has a reason not to worry about Nehekara I'd be totally won over by them, fancy that.
- Location
- United Kingdom
So the consensus seems to be toward some sort of promethium production, and also reinforcement for Norsca. I can't really see anyone having significant disagreement on these points given the narrative requirements, however I'm certainly open to them.
The current sources of disagreement are around what to do about Araby, the size of the Norscan garrison, and whether to do hydrogen vs promethium. I suspect these may be haronisable so feel free to start voting once plans are amended. Keep in mind you don't need to spend all your surplus now, you can also produce small stuff and scale up over time, eg, you don't need a 10k autogun production factroy necessarily you could just have a 5k one.
In any case, I've written the next chapter's actions so can post that once this chapter's votes are finished and we can move onto the actions turns
The current sources of disagreement are around what to do about Araby, the size of the Norscan garrison, and whether to do hydrogen vs promethium. I suspect these may be haronisable so feel free to start voting once plans are amended. Keep in mind you don't need to spend all your surplus now, you can also produce small stuff and scale up over time, eg, you don't need a 10k autogun production factroy necessarily you could just have a 5k one.
In any case, I've written the next chapter's actions so can post that once this chapter's votes are finished and we can move onto the actions turns
Why is there a road? I would like to have a medium hydrogen refinery. We do not need the Ash roads or a separate bastion to protect it if we are not going after the Mangrove oil. The hydrogen refinery can be built in or near one of our settlements.
[] Plan Hydrogen, Arabyan and Norscan Aid
-[] Siphon fuel from the drop pods and vehicles to fuel our Thunderhawks.
-[] After the promethium is drained from our drop pods and vehicles, siphon stores of alcohol to fuel our vehicles. This is to give us emergency fuel for our vehicles while the refinery is being constructed.
-[] Celestial Lions are to aid the faithful Norscans in their fight against the other Norscans. With our Chapter at 100 marines, we are to minimize risk and casualties. Maximize their despair and show no mercy to anyone who refuses to convert.
--[] Attack at night as much as possible, as they do not have night vision goggles. Always attack at night for our high intensity raids. Do not let them sleep.
--[] Use local intelligence from the faithful and auspexes to find where the enemy tribes are.
--[] Snipe anyone who looks like a leader. With aerial attacks, it can be fom the bay door of a Thunderhawk. Scouts or marines can land from afar, snipe and then leave before the enemy tribes can react.
--[] Snipe or attack whoever we can whenever they leave their homes so they get afraid to leave and hunt.
--[] Starve them. Destroy any stores of food and kill any livestock. Burn and bomb their buildings.
--[] If it is deemed an acceptable risk, challenge their chieftains to duels. This can be done before or after weakening the tribe with the above tactics.
--[] If we have any Norscan astartes or survivors who were given to other imperial organizations, have them visit our friendlies to improve morale. Yes, only the strongest and luckiest can become Astartes but the ones who survive can be one of the Emperor's Angels.
-[] Total Costs: -1475 Labor, -748.9 Basic, -407.5 Advanced, -277 Exotic, -50.1 Relic, -184 Promethium
--[] Building total: -1475 Labor, -618 Basic, -309 Advanced, -124 Exotic, -15 Relic, -51 Promethium
---[] Minor Chapter Bastion (Norsca): -225 Labor, -169 Basic, -84 Advanced, -34 Exotic, -4 Relic, -51 Promethium
---[] Medium Hydrogen Refinery: -500 Labor, -449 Basic, -225 Advanced, -90 Exotic, -11 Relic
---[] Genetorium: -750 Labor
--[] Upkeep, five years total: -84.9 Basic, -42.5 Advanced, -17 Exotic, -1.1 Relic, -20 Promethium
---[] Medium Hydrogen Refinery, five years: -44.9 Basic, -22.5 Advanced, -9 Exotic, -1.1 Relic
---[] Norscan Bastion Upkeep, five years: -40 Basic, -20 Advanced, -8 Exotic, -0 Relic, -20 Promethium
--[] Norscan Deployment total: -46 Basic, -56 Advanced, -136 Exotic, -34 Relic, -113 Promethium
---[] 10 Thunderhawks, Intense Deployment: -8 Basic, -9 Advanced, -23 Exotic, -6 Relic, -19 Promethium
---[] Intense Deployment, five years: -38 Basic, -47 Advanced, -113 Exotic, -28 Relic, -94 Promethium
-[] Remaining: 245 Labor, 1901.1 Basic, 702.5 Advanced, -157 Exotic, -35.1 Relic, -96 Promethium
If we have any ships in orbit, it is possible their auspexes can be used to track and take recordings of norscan or arabyan movements.
Tell me if anything is off or if any bonuses are missing. I do not know if the upkeep for the hydrogen is accurate. I do not know if a bonus for Genetorium at 750 Labor was already accounted for.
I do not know what we are supposed to do for Exotic, Relic and Promethium. Promethium goes in the negative but we will be building the refinery. What about Exotic and Relic? We cannot do anything in Norsca if it takes 34 Relic. That is more twice the Relic from upkeep and building. While we are at it, what about Basic and Advanced production?
All that is left is Araby. Can we use the remainder of our labor, labor-clades and enginseers to do anything after unlocking the genetorium? What would that look like, after any applicable bonuses?
We have to pick our battles and bide our time. Our Chapter is down to 100 marines and our imperial guard is devastated. We are going to be spending five years fighting in Norsca. Unless you think they will not leave us alone, we should leave them alone for now. What else can we do? Bleed our skitarii, imperial knights and remaining imperial guard dry to fight in Nehekhara? Our space marines will be too busy in Norsca to keep our converted Norscans from dying.
This is a complicated answer. The players paid dearly to have a Divisio Fabricator, Divisio Artisan, and Divisio Biologis. They paid to preserve technological knowledge and for benefits in construction in exchange for a smaller, weaker military. We are feeling that lack of military manpower now. Have a rule so that no more than 80 or 90% of the Project can be discounted. In the future, use smaller bonuses unless they are very specific.
Right now, as you can see, we are not getting everything we want. With the bonuses we are struggling to only put out the fires and have a positive balance of resources.
Last edited:
Wouldn't it be sufficient to send Amra, the 3rd and the new recruits back to Norsca for a long term pacification campaign?
As fuel is precious it's going to be a long stay there until the next drop.
Edit: Haven't thought of him until now but could Jerek Von Kruger/Von Carstein be considered a potential defector?
As fuel is precious it's going to be a long stay there until the next drop.
Edit: Haven't thought of him until now but could Jerek Von Kruger/Von Carstein be considered a potential defector?
Last edited:
16 characters
Sick and tired of being Sick and Tired
- Location
- Alta California
- Pronouns
- They/Them
I think chances are good the Tomb Kings won't leave us alone that entire time, correct. That said I think gunman misunderstands what I want somewhat. I don't want to start a two-front war I just want us to be able to monitor these analog Necrons.
A group of five skittari playing poker on a radio tower would be enough to assuage my fears of ambushes, namely that if said tower vanishes from our map we can withdraw to protect our settlements. That's it, I'd be fine with that, the important part of this is not engaging them but haing intel.
A group of five skittari playing poker on a radio tower would be enough to assuage my fears of ambushes, namely that if said tower vanishes from our map we can withdraw to protect our settlements. That's it, I'd be fine with that, the important part of this is not engaging them but haing intel.
- Location
- United Kingdom
no that was a comparison between the costs of the hydrogen and hthe costs of the road+mangroves.
Also note that the hydrogen is a national project, with the associated resource costs, whereas the mangroves are a regional one. hydrogen will produce more resources over time because of this.
Labour Cost | Basic | Advanced | Exotic | Relic | Promethium | |
| H2 total | 500 | 629 | 315 | 126 | 15 | |
| bastion total | 75 | 142 | 71 | 28 | 4 | 71 |
| thunderhawk deployment | 37.64705882 | 47.05882353 | 112.9411765 | 28.23529412 | 94.11764706 | |
| Genetorium | 750 | |||||
| Total | 1325 | 807.8200925 | 432.8453404 | 267.2557832 | 47.17461996 | 164.9041639 |
| Surplus | 1720 | 2650 | 1110 | 120 | 15 | 88 |
| Remaining | 395 | 1842.179907 | 677.1546596 | -147.2557832 | -32.17461996 | -76.90416391 |
Specifically on the hydrogen, it's a national project because it proposes to build hydrogen plants in each of the Imperium's 3 locations, Pharos, Atakora and Arx Acheron. This is so you don't have to transport fuel, you can produce enough fuel in those places anyway. You could, in theory, not produce as much of it, but that would mean you'd have to have projects to connect the cities, such as the Mountain Way project between ARx Acheron and Atakora.
Your problems are the deficits in exotic and relic resources, as well as in promethium. The hydrogen is expensive because its a more advanced tech and the thunderhawks will be expensive if yuou're intening to use them to actually shoot stuff. you can't send them into battle without munitions, a dragon might eat them or something.
The promethium deficit is solved if you build the hydrogen, and I might suggest a project to dissasemble the Montfried, a sword frigate, which I'd be happy to give you for 300 labour cost. Such a project could cover the deficit in exotic and relic materials for this turn. You could additionally give teh 1000 basic and 500 exotic resources to Araby.
I think this would solve all the things you wanted to do, would you be content with these modiifcations? To be clear:
Plan Modified Gunman
siphon fuel etc before the hydrogen so you can fly about
hydrogen
bastion in norsca
intense norscan deployment
establish genetorium
dissasemble montfried
send subsidis to Araby
This largely uses up your budget, and in a pretty efficient way too.
Let me know if you're content with it, there seems to be consensus for such a plan.
Will depend on rolls.
I'll probably move to 5 and 10% instead on the next economy turn, but for now I'm fine with the larger ones, it would be silly to have to redo all the considerations etc.
Not currently, but htat's a possibiltiy in future. YOu'd have to do a project to increase the sensors, as just a normal ship wouldn't necessarily have the capacity to scan and detect with such ability.
have suggested dissassembling a ship above. You don't actually 'need' to create labour clades, at present you dont seem to need to, so it can always wait till a next chapter.
It would seem inherantly hazardous to send recruits to fight in a war they have only just left. It would be like assigning a police officer to police their own community, as such you wouldn't be sending hte recruits there.
As for the length of stay, I'll leave this to the vote next turn, if that's not chosen I can refund you the cost of the thunderhawks. However, it wouldn't just be flying around, it would also be the use of munitions and so on.
You have decent awareness of them, and will have better awareness if you've got enough fuel to regularly fly over the desert. Keep in mind though that its always going to be somewhat problematic becaus ehtey couldmake some sort of magic sandstorm etc to hide themselves
How in terms of relationship are we with the lizardmen? Or, rather what are we gonna do with them? Because, honestly the guys in Zlatlan seem like a good mystery option in terms of what to do with them. Any thoughts or words on this one, @FractiousDay ?
16 characters
Sick and tired of being Sick and Tired
- Location
- Alta California
- Pronouns
- They/Them
We've been maintaining neutrality because of bigger threats, this being the imperium the best I could expect long term is that maybe we let them live if they all submit to having an imperial brand burned into their flesh and having their spawning pools operated by the mechanicus.
I mean the problem is that we are classifying them as intelligent xenos. I guess things might be better if the marines could be convinced that most of them are essentially fleshy automatons though?
I mean the problem is that we are classifying them as intelligent xenos. I guess things might be better if the marines could be convinced that most of them are essentially fleshy automatons though?
- Location
- United Kingdom
Loyal sons of the Emperor can never have a 'relationship' with filthy xenos, your relationship is pulling the trigger of your bolter.
You've basically been ignoring them. They ate some of the dead bodies at a crash site when you landed, which was offensive to the Astartes, so they purged the jungles. Subsequently the Librarians disjointed the lizardmen enchantment and discovered their city, but after that there's been more important stuff to do and you've been looking at other stuff. They're still there for sure, but as long as they're chilling in their city, the Imperium wouldn't be that interested in pursuing them.
Yea it's tricky. They have names and stuff, I don't know if they necessarily have sentience, they're certainly biorobots to an extent, but are they clones for example? Clones in star wars for example could certainly be classified as people not robots.
To go into a bit of a theological debate:
The Warnings of the Cult Mechanicus
- The alien mechanism is a perversion of the True Path.
- The soul is the conscience of sentience.
- A soul can be bestowed only by the Omnissiah.
- The Soulless sentience (i.e. Necrons) is the enemy of all.
- The knowledge of the ancients stands beyond question.
- The Machine Spirit guards the knowledge of the Ancients.
- Flesh is fallible, but ritual honours the Machine Spirit.
- To break with ritual is to break with faith.
Having said that, 'knowledge of the ancient stands beyond question'. That's an interesting point, and we do know that the Imperium permits xenos races. You might say, for exampe that the lizardmen are xenos, and sanction them. THe mechanicus are fine with this, they're ok with making xeno servitors. Comparably, if you concluded that they're soulless sentience, that would be a problem.
Alternatively yea if they're just biological robots, that would probably be ok, as long as the Mechanicus can do some rituals, eg, something like branding thing.
The massive problem here, and this is a problem with the Imperium in general (apart from Inquisitors for example), is that 'why dont we just kill them all' is always a question. It would be so so much easier in general to just kill stuff, and there's a real iconclastic impulse of the Imperium to just destroy weird stuff.
Last edited:
Yes they go mad without a Slann, but they can function without direction. We already know of multiple hero level lizardman characters that are not specifically bound to a Slann. We even have that charmeleon skink that was in the realm of chaos for quite some time
I take offense to ANY loyal citizen of the Imperium, (Who is not an Inquisitor, mind you) dare label me with a relationship and a XENO!!!
(Jokes aside, Thanks for the information earlier, I remember about earlier in the quest where there was a possible chance of having diplomacy with them and was wondering what we were doing with that whole thing. And, lizardmen if I gave a guess, would be a sort of half/half. They need the slann for greater organization and leadership for anything that they don't do, like Saurus to help be moved from patrol area A to then patrol area B. Because, to the saurus they would stick to their original patrol of A, until and including being told by a Scar veteran or above to move it. But besides that, they do have the thinking and beings of souls. Just more cold-blooded as they I suppose were modded after lizards and made by their masters. So, they honestly remind me more of an ant species turned into bi-pedal full functioning human emotions, but cooled down to a significant degree.)
(Jokes aside, Thanks for the information earlier, I remember about earlier in the quest where there was a possible chance of having diplomacy with them and was wondering what we were doing with that whole thing. And, lizardmen if I gave a guess, would be a sort of half/half. They need the slann for greater organization and leadership for anything that they don't do, like Saurus to help be moved from patrol area A to then patrol area B. Because, to the saurus they would stick to their original patrol of A, until and including being told by a Scar veteran or above to move it. But besides that, they do have the thinking and beings of souls. Just more cold-blooded as they I suppose were modded after lizards and made by their masters. So, they honestly remind me more of an ant species turned into bi-pedal full functioning human emotions, but cooled down to a significant degree.)
16 characters
Sick and tired of being Sick and Tired
- Location
- Alta California
- Pronouns
- They/Them
Hmm well two reasons come to mind for not just killing things namely starting a war that could potentially destroy us is a bad Idea, and two wasting resources on non-hostiles opens us up to real threats, both have been true for the lizardmen so far.
I've gone over this before but given the thread is rapidly approaching 2,500 posts I don't expect all players to have read the entire thread.
EDIT: It is good to know we could sanction them but I think sanctioning a whole temple city might be unprecedented and liable to add some sort of sub charge to our heresy list regarding abusing our powers?
I've gone over this before but given the thread is rapidly approaching 2,500 posts I don't expect all players to have read the entire thread.
EDIT: It is good to know we could sanction them but I think sanctioning a whole temple city might be unprecedented and liable to add some sort of sub charge to our heresy list regarding abusing our powers?
Last edited:
I meant new, future bonuses can be smaller than nerfing the ones we have now. We have some substantial bonuses and they are barely helping us get by.
I like lizardmen but IC it would have to take something extraordinary for them to be tolerated. If they are deemed xenotech bioroids it does not help. Jokaero are not considered "xenos" because they are so useful to the Imperium and they are not actually sure if they are intelligent. That does not work for the Lizardmen.
[X] Plan Hydrogen, Arabyan and Norscan Aid
-[X] Siphon fuel from the drop pods and vehicles to fuel our Thunderhawks. Do this before the hydrogen refinery is built.
-[X] After the promethium is drained from our drop pods and vehicles, siphon stores of alcohol to fuel our vehicles. This is to give us emergency fuel for our vehicles while the refinery is being constructed. Do this before the hydrogen refinery is built.
-[X] Celestial Lions are to aid the faithful Norscans in their fight against the other Norscans. With our Chapter at 100 marines, we are to minimize risk and casualties. Maximize their despair and show no mercy to anyone who refuses to convert.
--[X] Attack at night as much as possible, as they do not have night vision goggles. Always attack at night for our high intensity raids. Do not let them sleep.
--[X] Use local intelligence from the faithful and auspexes to find where the enemy tribes are.
--[X] Snipe anyone who looks like a leader. With aerial attacks, it can be fom the bay door of a Thunderhawk. Scouts or marines can land from afar, snipe and then leave before the enemy tribes can react.
--[X] Starve them. Destroy any stores of food and kill any livestock. Burn and bomb their buildings.
-[X] Build a national Hydrogen Refinery, a minor bastion in Norsca and Genetorium.
-[X] Disassemble the Montfried Sword Frigate for materials.
-[X] Use skull probes and a team of skitarii with cameoline cloaks to monitor the charnel valley. They are to not enter the valley itself and not engage. They are to report any movement.
-[X] Send subsidies for Araby so they can purchase food.
Is this a good plan?
Last edited:
That's the way of the scouts once they have chosen a suitable target anyway for their teachers to tell them to shoot at.
16 characters
Sick and tired of being Sick and Tired
- Location
- Alta California
- Pronouns
- They/Them
I am 100 percent on board with this plan.
[X] Plan Hydrogen, Arabyan and Norscan Aid
[X] Plan Hydrogen, Arabyan and Norscan Aid
- Location
- United Kingdom
Kinda goes to the question of whether animals have souls. Again it's a deep theological issue for the imperium, they're fine with Grox, that's a xenos after all
Yes there's certainy reasons not to kill them, but I just mean they're not as persuasive when the whole 'abhor the xenos' is in play.
as to unprecedented, not necessarily, there's precedent for sanctioning xenos certainly, and you have the legal right to basically do what you want on the planet. However, yes it's a tricky point
So that's an interesting point. To me, that's fundamentally not a problem. You're playing Space Marines, you're not meant to be compassionate uplifters or industrialisers. Lots of SM places maintain their worlds deliberately as feral worlds for various reasons. I did give a option for a colonisation mission in the start:
and I certainly get the desire to be able to do all things, but to me as the GM, struggling is good, it maintains tension. I have to do something to prevent you from steamrolling all opposition and make the quest actually difficult. I've found a lot that people tend to be willing to just let players win all the time. Here you will indeed have problems with various things, and that'll cause difficulties over time.[ ] Adeptus Administratum
The bureaucrats of the vastness of the Imperium of Mankind, the Administratum collect taxes, mobilise whole sectors and in your case, funded an expedition of colonisation to worlds recently reclaimed from the perfidious xenos.
That's fine, just to clarify, do you want the genetroium and the bastion in norsca too? They're not included on your plan. I wanted to check.
I'm minded to adjudicate it in favour of @Gunman , @Exmorri and @16 characters do you have objections to this? Exmorri yours was a little different but prety similar in other respects
Who said anything about being compassionate? This is about not becoming feral worlders ourselves and being able to do anything. With the bonuses at their current rates we can barely do some of what we want and we had to make hard compromises on things we need to do. We are far away from doing what we want to do. If our current bonuses and resources were too much, we would not be doing so little. We would not be flooding our future enemies with gold or dismantling a sword frigate. We would not be worrying about having enough fuel to use one of our advantages. Our enemies do not need any advanced technology or an industrial economy to kill us.
We're playing Space Marines, yes. We also took allies and those allies are not space marines. We spent 7 cargo units on those admech divisios. I cannot speak for why they voted for it but they probably did not want the celestial lions to regress to using swords and bows. That is 700 battle brothers we could have gotten instead. They spent cargo units for foresight in exchange for strength. Boy could we use that strength now. Our space marines and imperial guard, for all of their technology, have been nearly wiped out compared to their original strength. Reducing our existing bonuses would be like pulling the rug out from under us. We are already in a poor state and are already struggling.
There is a difference between letting us do everything we want, giving us a challenge and making us pick what way we want to suffer. If those bonuses were at 5 or 10% for this turn, we would have to pick between Araby starving, all the norscans who converted dying or having no sustainable source of fuel. Autogun clades and anything else were already an impossibility for us this turn. I know steamrolling happens in quests but we are already struggling and we blew our load by having so many of our soldiers die. We are not going to be taking over any new countries or regions any time soon so we can have pyrrhic or costly victories.
You had to have known the administratum were not going to win. They are not an army with their own line of miniatures, games and books dedicated to them. They do not have the same draw.
I accidentally deleted them. I added it back.
Grox are not intelligent like humans. They are animals. That is why. Purging the xenos is about threats to humanity because they are as intelligent as a human.
Last edited:
- Location
- United Kingdom
So this is all pretty valid, and I certainly get that, but yea its useful feedback in genearl that stuff is received as it should be anyway. It's important to consider the short and long term stuff. I will say though that yea th eadministratum were less likely, as were the guard, and I also wanted the space marines, I would have been fine with other stuff too and it would have been possibly to do other things, but it's still nice to have SMs, they're my prefered faction in general
Ah so my point was more that there's a certain degree of intelligence that must be acceptable or not. At what poitn is something an animal that a roughrider can ride about, and at what point is it too intelligent? Is an elephant ok? Is a dog? Dolphins are as intelligent as 4 year olds right? Or something? A lizardman might be as intelligent as a 10 year old, is that ok? It's a point around standards.
16 characters
Sick and tired of being Sick and Tired
- Location
- Alta California
- Pronouns
- They/Them
I didn't mean that sanctioning xenos was unknown, indeed in some places it is absurdly common(Necromunda and the calaxis sector come to mind) merely I heard of no instances where large populations in the hundreds to low thousands might get that treatment, always individuals as far as my reading went.
Well actually aside from Necromunda...but Necromunda is very weird and probably not a good baseline for judging imperial standards.
I would have no problem changing that, but that's where my thinking was.
Also yeah I'm cool with just going with gunmans plan since it covers all the important points I wanted to make anyway, I can't speak for Exmorri though.
Well actually aside from Necromunda...but Necromunda is very weird and probably not a good baseline for judging imperial standards.
I would have no problem changing that, but that's where my thinking was.
Also yeah I'm cool with just going with gunmans plan since it covers all the important points I wanted to make anyway, I can't speak for Exmorri though.