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The Lost (30k Primarch Quest)

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Varder said:
The main reason I dislike him is because I don't see a big glaring weakness/flaw that most other Primarchs have.
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I figured that his flaw is arrogance. He comes across as pretty full of himself and I feel that is going to bite him on the butt someday. Also he has a bit of an anger problem thought that might be the local pirate culture just being more indulge of one's temper than modern society is.
 
Varder said:
Yeah. PC, as in player character.

The main reason I dislike him is because I don't see a big glaring weakness/flaw that most other Primarchs have. And the way he figured all the major plot points about Craftworld society from, like, two conversations, just screams "plot armor" and "main character bias" to me. He's too OP, basically.

Which, I know, is like the main point of playing a Primarch in the first place, but, subjectively, it still rankles.
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This is fair. I was going for a bit of power fantasy with him in these early stages, cuz, ya know, primarch among mortals but I might've leaned into that too hard.

At the moment, the dude is pretty arrogant and has a bit of an issue managing his anger, but it hasn't really cost him anything besides Caihong's respect (and in retrospect I still had her praising his skill as she did so and then she regretted it later... man I screwed up with her). I have other flaws in mind for him (especially when compared to the other primarchs), but they haven't had many opportunities to show themselves at this point. That's on me.

I will try to set up more opportunities for that as well as harder/more costly choices.
 
HalfTangible said:
That quote is so perfectly 40k, I love it.
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Yeah their 'Grimdarkness' is more or less to the tune of ruthless and total exploitation/utilization of any and all resources in an era. Prime example of this mentality is that while they hate the Tyranids (bugs wiped out a League and are one of the few groups that can reliably invade the Core regions) the Kin also respect them for the sheer thoroughness that the Hive fleet strips everything from a planet when they invade.
 
HalfTangible said:
This is fair. I was going for a bit of power fantasy with him in these early stages, cuz, ya know, primarch among mortals but I might've leaned into that too hard.

At the moment, the dude is pretty arrogant and has a bit of an issue managing his anger, but it hasn't really cost him anything besides Caihong's respect (and in retrospect I still had her praising his skill as she did so and then she regretted it later... man I screwed up with her). I have other flaws in mind for him (especially when compared to the other primarchs), but they haven't had many opportunities to show themselves at this point. That's on me.

I will try to set up more opportunities for that as well as harder/more costly choices.
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Personally, I feel you done a good job of balancing the power fantasy that is a Primarch amongst regular humans on his homeworld whilst setting up the flaws of Sun-Sin at the same time. Yes, Sun-Sin is dominant right now, but he is far from perfect because the guy is so full of himself and he has trouble reigning in his temper at times. Yes, his pride and temper haven't cost him serious anything yet as his nature as a Primarch has been compensating for them, but they are very clearly being set up to cost him later when his Primarch-ness isn't enough to make up the difference. It has been subtle, but it is very clearly there if you are paying attention and know the right narrative tells.

Also be careful about increasing the difficulty and costs of future choices. It can be done right as a natural progression of the story and character arc, but it can be unfun for the voters if it is too forced or jammed into the quest. And on a semi-joking note, I don't know how much cross-audience our Primarch quests have, but my quest might have filled the current SV niche for a difficult Primarch quest where you have to fight for every victory and earn your hard-fought triumphs. Again, I am semi-joking here and I don't know how much our voter bases overlap, but when two similar quests are ongoing, I noticed that people will vote for different options in the second one because they already feel that the first quest is filling a certain path or niche and I already went hard on the difficult Primarch quest niche right now on SV.
 
Oshha said:
Personally, I feel you done a good job of balancing the power fantasy that is a Primarch amongst regular humans on his homeworld whilst setting up the flaws of Sun-Sin at the same time. Yes, Sun-Sin is dominant right now, but he is far from perfect because the guy is so full of himself and he has trouble reigning in his temper at times. Yes, his pride and temper haven't cost him serious anything yet as his nature as a Primarch has been compensating for them, but they are very clearly being set up to cost him later when his Primarch-ness isn't enough to make up the difference. It has been subtle, but it is very clearly there if you are paying attention and know the right narrative tells.

Also be careful about increasing the difficulty and costs of future choices. It can be done right as a natural progression of the story and character arc, but it can be unfun for the voters if it is too forced or jammed into the quest. And on a semi-joking note, I don't know how much cross-audience our Primarch quests have, but my quest might have filled the current SV niche for a difficult Primarch quest where you have to fight for every victory and earn your hard-fought triumphs. Again, I am semi-joking here and I don't know how much our voter bases overlap, but when two similar quests are ongoing, I noticed that people will vote for different options in the second one because they already feel that the first quest is filling a certain path or niche and I already went hard on the difficult Primarch quest niche right now on SV.
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I'm very glad you think so =) I try to take positive and negative feedback in stride and self-examine to see what may lead to such opinions either way.

Looking back I think that I did well establishing his arrogance and anger issues (albeit as informed attributes for the moment) but the bit where he figured out the Craftworld Eldar's entire background through, as Varder said, two conversations was a step too far. Probably should've saved the personal insight for the 2nd primarch quest. Controlling storms, having a level of psychic potential, good camaraderie with his crew and shooting through the sea like a torpedo was probably enough.
 
Is it that hard to figure out? This doesn't really come off as especially clever on his part. Not to me anyway. It's basically why the Eldar are speciest pricks in the first place. They hate it when people remind them that they're not half so clever as they think they are. Eldar just aren't as complicated or mysterious as they make themselves out to be, and don't like it when other people realize that.
 
w34v3r said:
Ok see this is the part that bothers me.

Isn't an astartes Knight pilot basically a waste of geneseed?
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I think it's about having knights as an auxillary force and knowing how to use them to maximum effectiveness alongside our legion, not astartes knight pilots. I might be wrong, and correct me if I am, but that was my reading.
 
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Knight Auxilia
  • Apocrypha
    • w34v3r said:
    Ok see this is the part that bothers me.

    Isn't an astartes Knight pilot basically a waste of geneseed?
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    Geneseed and the required implants for Knight piloting. On top of the massive risk that the Throne Mechanicum itself puts the potential pilot's mind in (which is already a huge risk even before you recall that becoming an Astartes is ALSO a huge risk). And that's assuming you could even get them into the Knight in the first place.

    The idea (as @ThatOneGuy050 pointed out) is that the legion would have mortal Knight auxilia that serve alongside them. Probably as heavy support during ground engagements:

    ThatOneGuy050 said:
    I think it's about having knights as an auxillary force and knowing how to use them to maximum effectiveness alongside our legion, not astartes knight pilots. I might be wrong, and correct me if I am, but that was my reading.
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    You'll have a chance when you actually meet the legion to adjust any of their tactics and characteristics, if y'all are sour on the idea at that point, but that's my thinking for the moment.
     
  • Apocrypha
    • Building-sized mech suits don't really match our pirate aesthetic. I always imagined our future legion to focus on void warfare.
     
    AsuraAtlas said:
    Building-sized mech suits don't really match our pirate aesthetic. I always imagined our future legion to focus on void warfare.
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    As do I (that or ocean assaults) but sometimes you just need to land and perform a ground assault. The World Eaters specialize in close assaults but they still use ranged weapons and fire lances from their ships. (counterpoint to myself would be Lotara Sarrin: "FIRE THE URSUS CLAWS!")

    Like I said though, the legion's specialties and even general aesthetic are not yet set in stone. And even when I do reveal them to you, Sun-Sin is a primarch and can make whatever changes you feel would work.

    Negation said:
    I thought QM wanted a Legion of Crossbone Gundams in 30k
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    Note to self, look up Crossbone Gundam or at least ask my friend who is a Gundam nerd about it.
     
    [X] – Write-in: a half-dead star hunter legionary

    Knights would be the smart choice for future stuff, but man I want to see how this ends up.
     
    [X] – Write-in: a half-dead star hunter legionary

    Y'know what, potential linkage towards our bro Khan is too good to pass up.
     
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    [X] – Write-in: a half-dead star hunter legionary
     
    [X] - write-in: a Dark Eldar prisoner overthrown from his Kabal seeking revenge and allies

    Pros:
    - eldar tech both craftworld and commoragh
    - access to lore
    - a spaceship pilot
    - possible webway travel
    - gain skill navigate and aeronautics
    - some other stuff

    Cons
    - a xeno
    - a dark eldar
     
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