The Lighthouses and the Pit (Fantasy Mage Quest)

[Asael]

I'm liking Runesmith->Thunderfist.

Runesmith adds versatility, not just durable weapons. Thunderfist stacks with bladebound well, once we get past the issue of breaking our weapon.

Super speed, super strength, teleportation, and an infinitely keen edge?. Sounds super killy.


Of course, we should probably verify that runesmith can actually toughen up our weapons enough to make this all worth while.


[X] Visit the Runesmiths

 

[RedV]

Of course, we should probably verify the runesmith can actually toughen up our weapons enough to make this all worth while.

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Yeah, if that is not possible I will go for some kind of Breathtaker build without Thunderfist, since long range flying assassin is a pretty cool concept. Full 3-D motion, the raw power of the Elemental Triad job and the ability to just fly out of range of Darklings are pretty cool.

It also combos well with Shaderunner / Spellthief which are extremely solid on their own.

 

[veekie]

Yellow Lighthouse should be saved for much later unless we can confirm Runesmith + Alchemist works or not, since its other powers aren't appealing for our build at all.

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Spellthieves aren't bad I think. Dependent on connections, but the combat skill of a blade allows some of the stored spells to be used in circumstances normally too risky to try

 

[RedV]

Spellthieves aren't bad I think. Dependent on connections, but the combat skill of a blade allows some of the stored spells to be used in circumstances normally too risky to try

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Uh wait sorry I was talking about the Green Lighthouse and I mistyped. My bad. Yellow is my second preference, and I do agree that all of its powers are very solid.

Green lighthouse otoh is not as useful to our build.

 

[Rotekian]

I think at present my set of preferences would be:
Red: Breathtaker / Angry
Green: Alchemist / Mercurial
Yellow: Shaderunner / Neutral
Violet: Thunderfist / Neutral
Blue: Runesmith / Hopeful

I'm not sure about Breathtaker and Alchemist.
--
Lighthouse Builder
Red: Mindscour / Calm
Green: Alchemist / Mercurial
Yellow: Spellthief / Courageous
Violet: Canceller / Detached
Orange: Tremorfoot / Greedy
Blue: Runesmith / Hopeful

This seems like the set of powers that would be most relevant if you wanted to build something similar to a Lighthouse.

 

[Zaealix]

Hrrm...Fate Points and Temperment choices willing, we can pick freely buuut...
I think those colored votes we get effect which powers we get which means...
1.Hope you like Runesmithing!
2. And Coldhands!
3. Also, Fireeyes Swallow!
Swallow probably tends towards anger soo Breathscour as well.
I think she'll end up one of the Spelltheives as well, assuming current emotional trends hold, but I might be wrong.

 

[Shard]

I think going for the Blue lighthouse to acquire Runesmith is the logical progression for Swallow; He's emotions match, and Runesmith/Bladebound has a fairly obvious synergy.

Going by the Lighthouses:

Red - Longshot has no synergy. Other two options provide orthogonal synergies - Mindscour is an interesting progression.
Green - Probably end up as a Coldhand, synergies somewhat missing; Orthogonal capabilities gained.
Yellow - Likely end up as Spellthief (Probable synergy from sheer magical interactions) or Shaderunner (Synergizes very well into nonstop Pit-Diving.)
Violet - Probably end up as a Fireeye - situation similar to Coldhand, but less situational. Thunderfist no synergy. Canceller potentially a lot of synergy.
Blue - Probably end up as a Runesmith (Clear synergies), but no additional abilities gained. Watersinger, Stormchaser provides orthogonal abilities.

 

[Chrestomanci]

Swallow is a Bladebound, so whatever we take should work with that.

First, I would go to Runesmith as our Second Ascension. As a Bladebound she is dependant on weapons and a Runesmith can eliminate the Bladebound weaknesses.
Bladebound can either use projection (ranged attacks) or sharpness (armour piercing attacks), not both at once. With an enchanted weapon, then we can attack from range and inflict massive damage.

For the Third Ascension, I would recommend Mindscour. Post Second Ascension, it permits the theft of magical skills as well as non-magical ones. It is best against human opponents, not Darklings, but it means any human enemy we fight will make Swallow stronger as she takes their skills and powers.

Fourth, Shaderunner. We would have a strong offense and this would grant an equally strong defense.
Fifth, at this point we would likely be able to re-ingnite the Indigo Lighthouse(in the shadowlands), so I would suggest an Indigo power for the fifth.

 

[Siual]

I'm surprised people don't seem to be considering Shaderunner as Second Ascension. We have the killiest one-on-one combo possible, combined with the assassination style as our trained style of swordfighting. Adding magic stealth to our skillset would make us the perfect assassin.

 

[Shard]

I'm surprised people don't seem to be considering Shaderunner as Second Ascension. We have the killiest one-on-one combo possible, combined with the assassination style as our trained style of swordfighting. Adding magic stealth to our skillset would make us the perfect assassin.

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I'm personally debating Shaderunner or Runesmith for Swallow's 3rd Ascension. The former does what you said and is best for pit-diving, while the latter makes Swallow very killy.

Of course, if we go by personality reqs, Runesmith is the easier of the two, since Swallow is already pretty Hopeful, though of course 2nd Ascension doesn't follow the rules for the 1st - One thing I wonder, does 'spare' magical capacity matter more than 'total' magical capacity?

 

[RedV]

Red - Longshot has no synergy. Other two options provide orthogonal synergies - Mindscour is an interesting progression.
Green - Probably end up as a Coldhand, synergies somewhat missing; Orthogonal capabilities gained.
Yellow - Likely end up as Spellthief (Probable synergy from sheer magical interactions) or Shaderunner (Synergizes very well into nonstop Pit-Diving.)
Violet - Probably end up as a Fireeye - situation similar to Coldhand, but less situational. Thunderfist no synergy. Canceller potentially a lot of synergy.
Blue - Probably end up as a Runesmith (Clear synergies), but no additional abilities gained. Watersinger, Stormchaser provides orthogonal abilities.

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For the Red Lighthouse, wouldn't Breathtaker perhaps be a more powerful progression? It has strong utility effects, we get excellent mobility be using Runesmithed wings , and Mindscour's skillsteal doesn't benefit Bladebound as much.

For the Violet, it was pretty much confirmed that Thunderfists only don't use weapons because their fists are as good as weapons - that doesn't make adding extremely strong physical buffs onto the melee combat chassis of the Bladebound a bad deal. Swallow is primarily a close-range fighter- increasing her physical might is somethig we should definitely aim for, and Thunderfist is only job that can do it.

The Yellow Tower is full of good jobs. I don't think a single job there is bad, every one of them is just very solid and a great addition to whatever Swallow will end up doing. Combat precog / Spellthief / sneaking are just very good and will likely lead to a highly contested vote.

Generally agree with you on all the rest.

 

[Barondoctor]

Green: Coldhands most likely.
Yellow has no bad class.
Blue: Runesmith both most likely and most useful.

Questions:
1) Could a second ascension Bladebound / Coldhands form an ice blade from water vapor and use it for their blade techniques?
2) Could a third ascension Bladebound / Coldhands / Thunderfeet regularly form ice weapons they could then use with their superlative skill and strength, assuming they were in a humid enough locale?

 

[RedV]

Green: Coldhands most likely.
Yellow has no bad class.
Blue: Runesmith both most likely and most useful.

Questions:
1) Could a second ascension Bladebound / Coldhands form an ice blade from water vapor and use it for their blade techniques?
2) Could a third ascension Bladebound / Coldhands / Thunderfeet regularly form ice weapons they could then use with their superlative skill and strength, assuming they were in a humid enough locale?

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If we're using Coldhands to get high level ice weapons, it may make sense to ditch Runesmith for Watersinger to max our water control.

After all, the major reason we want Runesmith is good armor / weapons, which Coldhands can replace with ice armour / weapons.

Runesmith is also a major timesink, so that build might not find it as useful as Watersinger.

 

[sidestory]

We should ideally go for Runesmith

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Runesmith adds versatility, not just durable weapons

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.Hope you like Runesmithing!

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Probably end up as a Runesmith

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First, I would go to Runesmith as our Second Ascension

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Blue: Runesmith both most likely and most useful.

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People if you really want to do something for the world at large then Runesmithing is the worst choice you could pick because

The power of enchantment gives rise to the Runesmiths, who can forge magical items. However, a Runesmith-forged item can only be used by that mage, and no other.

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Which means all we create would be only usable for us and worthless to everybody else, meaning the moment Swallow dies all her impact dies with her and Swallow will die, because that is just the kind of world we work with here, it is just up to us to decide when and how

If you however want to have an real impact upon the world at large and make it a better place to live for everybody, we should go for something grand like

Breathtakers are angry. They form part of the Natural Triad, (also among them the Tremorfeet and Watersingers). They can manipulate vast quantities of air, call down storms, but are less useful against individual enemies. They often use constructed wings alongside their great powers to fly, and can do so for considerable distances. Rosolin uses Breathtakers to move around entire squads of magi on wings, allowing them to outflank and outfight Darklings attacking the city. They have no esoteric or abstract spells.

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Coldhands are stubborn. The first of the Elemental Triad, (also among them the Fireeyes and Stormchasers). They can form water into ice, but are restricted by the availability of such. In situations where they have a great deal of water, they can form constant blades and icicles to harass their foes, and can also directly freeze their enemies, though this is more difficult. They are the most situationally powerful of the three, but are heavily reliant on the availability of water, so they synergise well with Watersingers. They have no esoteric or abstract spells.

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Cancellers are detached and unconcerned. They can cancel the magics of others, and cancel the strengths of Darklings when more powerful. They do not cancel effects already taken place, though, such as a Glimpse's former vision or a Mindscour's stolen memories.

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Watersingers are neither hopeless nor hopeful. They move great quantities of water, and are most powerful near a river or the sea.

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In order to create a deathstorm that allows us to stop darkling hordes by ourselve and then kill whatever weakend darkling survive, so that the cities can put their mages elsewhere and give more protection there while we handle one front of darklings and protect ourselve with either

Glimpses are fearful. They can see the future, and the further the look ahead the more it costs them. They can focus more on the near future (effectively combat precog) or on the far future (weak precog letting them anticipate likely events for certain actions). They are largely administrators, and their powers do not lend themselves to any peculiar esoteric things outside of their ability to see the future.

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or

Shaderunners are neither fearful nor fearless. They can hide from things, from vision to sound, and at more powerful levels can hide from esoteric things such as pain, wounds, or death, though such spells are tremendously difficult to pull off. They are the most defensive of all mages, and are perhaps only as useful as a Mindscour in direct combat, perhaps even less.

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But that is not even my end goal with this build, no my end goal for this build to accumulate more fate point, descend into the pit and seal the pit with a fate point empowered permanent death blizzard,

This would probably kill us, given what I have in mind but if we manage to seal the pit, we would stop the darklings from leaving it and hunting people from it

That would be such a huge boon for the people and more importantly the mages, that it might even allow them to turn the tide and start reconquering areas from the darklings, instead of weathering darkling attacks and dying a low death

 

[Shard]

I'm not sure if you realize, but Swallow moving water or invoking fire/ice or counterspelling Darklings or cloaking or seeing the future is even more temporary than forging items only she can use.

Declaring all of us are wrong whilst proposing a thus-far known to be impossible 6th ascension build as the ideal to reignite the Age of Light is not very convincing.

 

[Chrestomanci]

This would probably kill us, given what I have in mind but if we manage to seal the pit, we would stop the darklings from leaving it and hunting people from it

That would be such a huge boon for the people and more importantly the mages, that it might even allow them to turn the tide and start reconquering areas from the darklings, instead of weathering darkling attacks and dying a low death

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You are aware the Darklings come from the sea as well, right?
Sacrificing Swallow to seal the Pit will not stop the ones from the oceans. We would need to reignite the Indigo Lighthouse to stop them.

We need to explore the Pit, to find lost magical knowledge such as how the Lighthouses were made. For that, we should go with Runesmith.
I would prefer to not go for a third Ascension until we discover what drove Amelgynn nuts and prevent it happening to Swallow.

EDIT: And throwing around ice (Breathtaker, Coldhand, Watersinger) storms will kill Darklings, true, but probably also kill all the crops and starve everyone.

 

[Stasis]

So either we make magic items that only we can use and are useless once we die or... we use magic that only we can use and is also useless once we die?

Did i get that right?

 

[Barondoctor]

So it seems like the things we do to make a difference likely aren't done directly with magic.

 

[deadcrystal]

Part of me wants to say 'just go all Neutral', so Swallow's mind doesn't get fucked over by personality rewrites.

Unfortunately not all of the Neutral options seem like great ones, though some are fantastic.

Swallow's current spec (Severing Distance, Infinite Sharpness, Interception/Assassination Style) is very highly optimised for very fast paced, very very lethal combat.

It's pretty freaking cool!

It's also, uh, kind of made of paper? It's super high-risk glass cannon combat, without the safety of attacking at range.

So Thunderfists would kind of combo really well to shore up the crippling weakness there. Just focus Thunderfist buffs on Speed and Resilience (Partic against Darling Poison).

Strength not really necessary, given Infinite Sharpness, but Resilience so Swallow can actually survive attacking something spraying poison everywhere, or a dangerous environment. Possibly other utility stuff depending on what you can do with Thunderfist. Fast healing? idk.

Anyway, for other stuff.

Red Lighthouse Magi:

Mindscour honestly seems not all that useful, can't get better at our combat style with it and beyond that most uses seem...ethically suspect.

Longshot is neutral, so no headfuckery. No synergy with skills/build, but good for mass-combat which we lack in I guess? Also it's Internal Magic, which I much prefer to External.

Breathtakers is cool and potent, but don't really want Swallow to turn into a Ragemonster.

Green Lighthouse Magi

None of these especially grab me or put me off all that much. Would say no to Alchemist because it doesn't suit personality. Vineweaver encourages collaboration which is good, Coldhands situational but would be bonkers combo with Watersinger.

Yellow Lighthouse Magi

Glimpse is...yeah no. Seems mostly useless for Swallow, plus bad personality fit.

Shaderunner combos with Assassination style and has a lot of general use + Defence which we lack.

Spellthieves...maybe let's not make enemies of other mages by stealing their magic? Even if traded for that seems like a lot of work in order to use effects from other disciplines.

Violet Lighthouse Magi

Yeah, already said I'm after Thunderfist here.

Blue Lighthouse Magi

Either of the first two works tbh. (Stormchaser really doesn't fit Swallow)

Runesmith works to produce terrifying personal combat doom-combo with Bladebound and Thunderfist.

Watersinger alternately produces combo with Coldhand, though the effectiveness of both of those seem diminished for things related to the Pit?

So yeah, fist pick for second Ascension would be Thunderfist, then either Runesmith or Shaderunner.

Violet - Probably end up as a Fireeye - situation similar to Coldhand, but less situational. Thunderfist no synergy.

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Thunderfists have plenty of synergy with Bladebounds, they don't usually use weapons because there's no point. But if you actually have both Ascensions then suddenly they combo amazingly.

So it seems like the things we do to make a difference likely aren't done directly with magic.

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Yeah, it's more of a social impact thing I'd say. Magic only relevant for gaining prominance, actually making things better is going to take work.

Oh, and since I haven't actually voted yet.

[X] Visit the Vineweavers

Combat Triad would also be good, either works to see people getting along to get a contrast to Civilian-killing asswipe.

 

[RedV]

Glimpse is...yeah no. Seems mostly useless for Swallow, plus bad personality fit.

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Why is combat precog useless? It's really good for a fighter!

 

[veekie]

Spellthieves...maybe let's not make enemies of other mages by stealing their magic? Even if traded for that seems like a lot of work in order to use effects from other disciplines.

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Its the option for an assassin type to bring an armory of options for a deep dive orgenerally projecting force for the squishier types

 

[Stasis]

Would severing distance and infinite sharpness work with bows?

Runesmithing a bow would work quite well i think.



Actually, could we runesmith a bow-sword/sword-bow? Because that'd be amazing.

 

[Sidhenlae]

Swallow's current spec (Severing Distance, Infinite Sharpness, Interception/Assassination Style) is very highly optimised for very fast paced, very very lethal combat.

It's pretty freaking cool!

It's also, uh, kind of made of paper? It's super high-risk glass cannon combat, without the safety of attacking at range.

So Thunderfists would kind of combo really well to shore up the crippling weakness there. Just focus Thunderfist buffs on Speed and Resilience (Partic against Darling Poison).

Strength not really necessary, given Infinite Sharpness, but Resilience so Swallow can actually survive attacking something spraying poison everywhere, or a dangerous environment. Possibly other utility stuff depending on what you can do with Thunderfist. Fast healing? idk.

Anyway, for other stuff.

Red Lighthouse Magi:

Longshot is neutral, so no headfuckery. No synergy with skills/build, but good for mass-combat which we lack in I guess? Also it's Internal Magic, which I much prefer to External.

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Being a glass cannon is Swallow's greatest drawback right now definitely. The jobs that seem able to boost Swallow's survivability would seem to be Alchemist, Shaderunner, Thunderfist and Runesmith.

Since I'm the kind of guy who reaches RPG end-boss with every consumable left, I'm against alchemist . Shaderunner is purely utility and defense. Choosing them would make us into the ultimate dual wielding ninja assassin superweeb. Despite the sarcasm, I do find them an acceptable choice, just would prefer something along different lines.

The Thunderfist seems like the natural fit and comes with everything a budding magic ninja assassin would want. However, the big drawback here is that it's internal magic. This means that we'd have to choose between advancing our Bladebound abilities or Thunderfist ones and I doubt we can just take 10 years off to grind our skills at our leisure. Internal magic being like a skill - once mastered it doesn't fade and is always available to you, but it takes a lot of dedication to master. The Runesmith shares that same drawback, requiring lots of downtime to advance our craft for the best magical bling.

Therefore, I'm going to to propose a different approach. Let's go for an elemental triad class: Coldhand, Fireeye or Stormchaser. This won't boost our survivability, but it's going to patch up our other disadvantage: range and AoE. The way external magic is explained to work is that you have a pool of mana that can run dry, but as long as you have mana you are God. Drawback being that once you run out of mana (which you'll do quickly) you'll be helpless.

The reason I see a lot of, at first glance unintuitive, synergy in this combination are following:

1. Minimal down-time to learn elemental skills. When you can cast it once, that's it. Skill mastered, no further training necessary. All downtime can be spent towards advancing Bladebound.
   
2. Ranged AoE. With this we can thin the herd before diving into battle or weaken the target before our attack or finish off a Greatspider safely from a distance. This makes combat a bit less deadly.
3. Fast power gain. Killing mages or Darklings gives a portion of their power. As Bladebound we are slow at killing. We are limited to single targets, but an elemental power is going to let us reap a bloody toll and thus give far faster power growth.
4. Once we run out of magic juice, we still have the full extent of our Bladebound abilities to be used until our body itself gives out. This negates both of the classes greatest drawbacks in one go.

 

[Zaealix]

Amongst all this talk of how/what ascensions we should/should not take, something that struck me as a thought was this:
How DO artifacts work!?
Like, Rune-Smithing explicitly works only for that particular smith right? And while Alchemists and Flesh-Crafters can indeed effect objects...Basically, I'm thinking unless Artifacts are gated beyond Third Ascension or higher, there should still occasionally be new ones being made, as opposed to all of them being things scavenged from the Pit.

 

[Chrestomanci]

Would severing distance and infinite sharpness work with bows?

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They would work on the bows, the problem is they would not affect the arrows.

- Bladebound magic works on any held weapon, if we were to lose our swords, we could just pick up another weapon and use it instead. It is a melee style, and excels at killing small numbers of strong enemies.
- Longshot magic, instead empowers projectiles. It is a ranged style, and is best at killing large numbers of weaker enemies.

Actually, could we runesmith a bow-sword/sword-bow? Because that'd be amazing.

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What do you mean? A bow that transforms into a sword?

Amongst all this talk of how/what ascensions we should/should not take, something that struck me as a thought was this:
How DO artifacts work!?
Like, Rune-Smithing explicitly works only for that particular smith right? And while Alchemists and Flesh-Crafters can indeed effect objects...Basically, I'm thinking unless Artifacts are gated beyond Third Ascension or higher, there should still occasionally be new ones being made, as opposed to all of them being things scavenged from the Pit.

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Artifacts are simply items from the Age of Light. They are not gated behind any Ascension, but are based on forgotten knowledge.
Some artifacts would be non-magical, most would be magical. Either way, the reason they are not being produced now is no-one currently living knows how to make them.
This is a post-apocalyptic setting, with much of the former civilisation lost. The majority of people lived in the area that is now the Pit, because in the Age of Light it was the furthest spot from the Darklings.