Nervos Belli
Don't think this means you've won!
- Location
- Murica
The Hearts of Iron Megathread
- Thread starter Kiyone4ever
- Start date
- Megathread
Grey Rook
Genuine Nerd
- Location
- The Quantum Foam
Yeah, that'd do it. Thanks.You can get punished Eva Braun:
It's... a little bit sus. Especially with the bonuses. Memes are all well and good but this gives me big "4chan Nazi meme mod" energies. It's not great.
The dlc is apparently filled with nothing but dog whistles and bad 'jokes' like that.
So are the mods. Clearly this is what the playerbase wants.
I just can't decide if the Iron Maiden title is just a thing or also, with the hairstyle, a dig a Thatcher.
I just can't decide if the Iron Maiden title is just a thing or also, with the hairstyle, a dig a Thatcher.
- Location
- Georgia, US
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Excuse me? Equestria at War, TNO, Old World Blues, Red Flood, Kaiserreich, etc. There are innumerable major mods that are not remotely like what you're describing.
Frankly before smearing people you should probably actually familiarize yourself with what you're talking about. Obviously there has always been a sub-section of Nazi or otherwise far-right leaning players, but they have never been the totality of the fanbase. This is, as the kids say, a "L take".
LordInsane
Loyalist to the Alvarian Merchant's Guild
- Location
- Bohuslän, Occupied Norway
The DLC also has a Kingdom of Mittelafrika path for the Belgian Congo, silly on its own... that is clearly written such that the associated leader would fit with Non-Aligned, but only actually makes him the Fascist leader (bizarrely the event also switches the Non-Aligned party name, but not the Fascist party name), leading to events switching between who they refer to as the leader of the nation if you are non-aligned, as is quite likely you are (the associated tree also breaks if Germany has gone democratic).
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It depends on what you mean by mods. If you mean by "mods have a overtly(as in legit) far-right or pro-chud bias"...I frankly think they are a extreme minority. If you mean mods that overly rely on wanton collapse scenarios, esoteric far-right ideologies and blow them up to be worse than regular nazism, don't hit you on the head about how far-right ideology is bad every second, I do think there is a split between "historically responsible" mods(ie: TNO, specifically post-rework TNO) vs. "pop history" mods(KDX). I know there is a vocal crowd of people that do shit on pop history mods for jacking off to memes or "gamer ideologies" or going "..." re: the implications of certain genocidal ideas taking root. And conversely there are the fans of the pop history mods that hate modern TNO for "realism". However I dont necessarily think that said mods are fascist or inherently so, especially since they don't go out of their way to demonize the left or anything.
There are three big mods(well in actuality, 2 mods and 1 submod for a mod) that tend to come up negatively among the "historical responsibility" crowd when allegations to Fascist apologia is thrown around, but I have played all three of these mods and I don't necessarily find any of them extremely fascist and find these arguements overblown. I should note through since this is not a drama thread I will not(or rather 2 mods and 1 submod), I will keep the names of the mods anonymous to avoid anyone starting drama or trying to correct me.
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- Location
- France
You mean the hidden meme path of exiled Hilter reappearing somewhere else with a paper-thin disguise such as a secret agent for the US or king Adolfo I of the reborn Bizantine Empire?
Those are a running gag that aren't supposed to be taken seriously, it's HoI4's equivalent of the Wilhelm Scream for Star Wars.
ChineseDrone
Totally depraved
- Location
- United States
- Pronouns
- He/They
guys i don't think punished eva braun is a pro-nazi dogwhistle
Like this obviously isn't worse than any of the Senor Hitler gags they've been doing for years? Germany and Hitler are essentially the protagonist nation and character respectively of HOI4–the game is literally called Hearts of Iron—of course they're going to be the center of most of the gags in the game. You can say this is inappropriate and insensitive (and in at least some of the cases I'd agree) but I don't think it says that the devs are literal nazis lol
Like you guys remember that this is the same studio that made Victoria 3 into basically outright socialist propaganda right (and I should note that I say this positively)?
Like this obviously isn't worse than any of the Senor Hitler gags they've been doing for years? Germany and Hitler are essentially the protagonist nation and character respectively of HOI4–the game is literally called Hearts of Iron—of course they're going to be the center of most of the gags in the game. You can say this is inappropriate and insensitive (and in at least some of the cases I'd agree) but I don't think it says that the devs are literal nazis lol
Like you guys remember that this is the same studio that made Victoria 3 into basically outright socialist propaganda right (and I should note that I say this positively)?
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Agree with both of this, while some of these "jokes" can come off as insensitive, I do think people are wayy too looking into this to extract some sort of "point". They also hired someone who worked on an openly anti-Nazi mod for HOI4 for Victoria 3(and got harassed for doing so horribly) and gave said anti-Nazi mod a leg up to update to 1.15 while promoting it from time to time as well.
That was my first thought when I saw it.
Also, its important to keep in mind that Eva Braun's route to power?
Hitler needs to first commit two different blunders. basically, during any of the Awards Focuses, Rhineland, Anchluss, or Chezchlosolvkia, the Allies or the nation has to say no. BTW, in order to get most of these to turn into no, you either have to actively set up a convoluted situation via getting yourself into the right kind of wars against the correct enemies....oer you have to actively play bad and do things like deleting part of your army. So you did all that, right? Well guess what: You might not even get to play Eva. Because now you need to hope that the attempted coup against hitler kills him. And neither option is certain. Also, even if you do succeed in getting hitler killed? Theres a high chance you get thrown into a civil war.
And what do you get?
A leader who's traits end up being worse than Hitler after all his focuses.
Hitler needs to first commit two different blunders. basically, during any of the Awards Focuses, Rhineland, Anchluss, or Chezchlosolvkia, the Allies or the nation has to say no. BTW, in order to get most of these to turn into no, you either have to actively set up a convoluted situation via getting yourself into the right kind of wars against the correct enemies....oer you have to actively play bad and do things like deleting part of your army. So you did all that, right? Well guess what: You might not even get to play Eva. Because now you need to hope that the attempted coup against hitler kills him. And neither option is certain. Also, even if you do succeed in getting hitler killed? Theres a high chance you get thrown into a civil war.
And what do you get?
A leader who's traits end up being worse than Hitler after all his focuses.
You misunderstand me, but to be fair I wanted to avoid that minefield: Not all mods are filled with obvious memes from the same spectrum, but all of them are filled with memes. EaW and OWB, the Star Wars ones etc. lay another layer of fandom over the political memes, but they too have them. You are just particularly annoyed by the Götterdämmerung ones because you dislike the part of the spectrum those memes come from the most (to be more fair: Why not).
No, it's stuff like making Friedrich Paulus a 1-1-1-1 general. He's apparently a big bugbear for Neo-Nazis in a sort of "Lost Cause" way because they blame him for losing the war. It's stuff like making the German communist paths all red painted nazis. It's stuff like making every Nazi official give massive buffs with no penalties and refusing to acknowledge the holocaust in any way, shape, or form, while hyping up how cool German science and military tech is. The entire inner circle mechanic is a collect your favourite war criminal mechanic, and doesn't even do a good job conveying how the Nazi government worked.
It's all this little pieces put together that make this the wehraboo dlc with more than a few dogwhistles thrown in.
I'm not going to comment on the other points you've made, as I'm not familiar enough with them to really agree or disagree with you, but I feel like there's not many better options for the devs when it comes to the Holocaust.
Making the Holocaust something players actively take part in sounds like a terrible idea, I can't imagine having decisions to build concentration camps or things along those lines, it sounds awful. Having one or two news pop ups about it seems really underwhelming and flippant about a pretty terrible event, so that sounds terrible as well. Making it a huge and significant part of a Nazi Germany play through also sounds pretty bad, and I don't think most players would want to play that.
I feel like it's possible for the Holocaust to be addressed in a mature and reasonable way in game, but it seems exceedingly difficult to do so in a way that won't harm player enjoyment, and I'd much rather they just not talk about it at all, rather than talk about it and fuck things up.
- Location
- Georgia, US
- Pronouns
- He/Him
I mean, this isn't new. HOI has always scrupously avoided mentioning the Holocaust. That's not apologism or a dogwhistle, it's Paradox covering their ass.
We can criticize it if we want but this is neither new nor particularly damning. They don't want to touch that topic with a 40 foot poll because of the potential for horrible controversy. Regardless if one likes or dislikes it I don't think anyone should be surprised.
Simmr001
Aquaman 2018 Fan Club President. I prefer Bob.
- Location
- Crawley, West Sussex
- Pronouns
- he/him
Theirs a new one for him this dlc as well.
Also, Strasser is supposedly an option now for monarchist Germany turning fascist again.
Terra Allias
World's only Magical Girl Spec Ops Asuka fan
- Location
- Cheverly
- Pronouns
- She/Her
I don't get these routes dude, it's always some shit like "El Salvador can form the New Austria-Hungary Empire, become Communist, fall into a civil war, and become a US state, but only after the United States is conquered by the Holy British Empire (Belize)".
Simmr001
Aquaman 2018 Fan Club President. I prefer Bob.
- Location
- Crawley, West Sussex
- Pronouns
- he/him
I think its because if you hang the nazis; Let the exiles in; and expatriate the communists; no one is left but him for fascists. So they probably just went "fuck it" and added him. Plus the suggestion thread is going to be full of "wheres strasser?" If they don't. Shut them up now.
Plus his realm is called German volksreich, so people can go "Fuhrerreich reference!"
Also its a puzzle to solve, secret path to get adds a couple of hours of playtime for some just by adding a portrait and an adviser. Good time investment between jobs.
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Yeah HOI has never touched on the Holocaust AT ALL. It's likely done to not attract controversy. We can crticize the ethics of this decision, but this has been consistent across Paradox that it alone isn't necessarily a "wehraboo" dog whistle.
People seem to forget that thanks to Germany's poorly worded laws combined with previous actions in enforcing said laws, literally the entire gaming industry has been very hesitant to ever show the holocaust or directly even show the Nazis, usually having to show them looking like something else, out of fear that it get the game banned in Germany...which thanks to EU Law is a de facto ban in most of Europe because how dare you make a version for one EU nation and one for the rest of the EU. Its why for the longest time in Europe, Hitler's portrait was basically just a black shadow.
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- Pronouns
- They/Them
Though to be clear there are games that literally showed Nazi death camps and were played just fine in Europe and Germany. They didn't do so approvingly, or have you participate in enacting them, but they exist.
This is to an extent one of those "chilling effect" things where people are extra cautious significantly beyond what the law actually states.
Wolfenstein 3D back in the 90's got outright banned to the point it was ruled a criminal offense to own a copy by a german court explicitly because the game had Nazis that you could kill "because that made it seem normal or enjoyable to see nazi symbols."
Game Devs legit had reason to be afraid thanks to just how badly written German Law was. Note that said ban on Nazi symbols didnt get lifted until 2018.
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- Location
- Georgia, US
- Pronouns
- He/Him
I mean, The Laurent isn't talking about the 90s. They're obviously talking about the modern day. This isn't wrong but it's not exactly relevant to their point.
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The thing is....the entire reason game devs were and still are so afraid IS said banning of Wolfenstein 3D. It was the very thing that created said chilling effect. And uh...he's actually wrong. They didnt show the Nazis. Those games whenever made for European Release had Totally Not Nazis who are almost entirely identical to Nazis in all but being directly named and shown as such. Because German Law explictly banned having Nazi Symbols. A law that was only repealed as I stated in 2018.
So for most of the history of computer games, said chilling effect was a very real legal threat.
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