'The Gods Are Bastards' General Discussion Thread

[guyfromtheplace1]

The original Web Serial Novel 'The Gods Are Bastards', by D. D. Webb, is possibly on of the better bits of contemporary fantasy fiction out in the world today, and new bonus posts are still being written as of just days ago, meaning that there's likely to be more things to discuss on the subject in coming days.
However a recent conversation with @Crimson Doom has led me to realize that there is not a preexisting place for enthusiasts to discuss this fiction, so I decided to create one.

For those unfamiliar with the Web Novel this is the introduction from Web Fiction Guide:
Wizards, elves and cowboys
It was a land of sword and sorcery, knights and castles, adventure and heroics . . . but that was a thousand years ago. The Gods are Bastards brings high fantasy forward into the Industrial Revolution, to a more complicated and more cynical era.

In the world of Tiraas, an ancient Church is making its final grab for ultimate power, an upstart young University seeks to bring its Enlightenment ethos to the world, and a teetering Empire struggles to balance tradition with progress. Better weapons, magics and technologies have changed the landscape, for better and for worse, and the age of ancient evils and heroic deeds is long over.

So when an ancient evil does rise again and heroes are needed to beat it back, the people of Tiraas must scramble to meet the challenge . . . if they can only stop scheming against each other long enough.

One thing is becoming clear: this time around, the gods will be no help.

you can read it here: Book 1 – Prologue
And here is the Tvtropes page: The Gods Are Bastards (Literature) - TV Tropes

My personal opinion of the work is that it's excellent, I'm essentially a fanboy for it, but due to some stuff in RL my reading was interrupted a bit after the hell portal at the university and I never got back into it, though I am comfortable with spoilers. Yes I am aware that being a huge fan of a piece of fiction while also not quite being able to muster up the motivation to finish it is strange, but it's unlikely to change right this instant.

The story really made an impression on me back then, I thought the world was expansive and portrayed with an eye towards all of the metaphorical 'moving parts' in the background that we weren't directly shown that make it a fleshed out world rather than a limited setting, and managed to be consistently surprising and clever, while working logically within the rules it set for itself and occasionally making me think to myself that I could have seen that plot twist coming, but didn't.
I also liked the conflicts between the characters, and some of Professor Tellwyrn's personal philosophy made a serious impression on me.

Edit: I think if I had to choose, my favorite character would be Bishop Darling, but oddly I like his sections less than the ones following the University kids, if that makes any sense. As if my aggregate like for them is greater than my like for his sections.

If I was rating the story I'd give it a 10/10.

Did you like the story?
Why?
What are your opinions on the characters?
Edit: Do you have a favorite?
How do you think the next scheme pileup(with university kids thrown in or not) will shake out?
Speculate wildly on the mysteries, motivations, histories, and conspiracies in the background.
Ask more questions to the thread to keep the discussion going.

And discuss.

 

[Arawn_Emrys]

Well, from the TvTropes page it sounds interesting. I do see a lot of bits and pieces that are either references to or copied from other stuff. Cracked up at the "Gygax Scale" for threats. Ironically it sounds like it would make a fun setting for a D&D/Pathfinder campaign.

 

[guyfromtheplace1]

Well, from the TvTropes page it sounds interesting. I do see a lot of bits and pieces that are either references to or copied from other stuff. Cracked up at the "Gygax Scale" for threats. Ironically it sounds like it would make a fun setting for a D&D/Pathfinder campaign.

Click to shrink...

Agreed, I think it'd be interesting to make the players deal with the way that adventurers are becoming outmoded.
What with the Industrial Revolution and things like mass produced magical weapons and self-casting wands, alongside other things like Golem armies and programmable 'computer' spells making up defense systems, and changes in social organization as the nations that embrace the industrial revolution dominate those that don't and make it harder to avoid overbearing regulation and national response to anything going on or anyone trying to avoid the consequences of their involvement in anything interesting. It's becoming harder for people to have an effect on the world through personal power alone, and the power of institutions is surpassing the power of even the most capable and unusual of individuals.
Anyone who's trying to do anything has to be at least tangentially aware of all of the politics of the factions involved, so they know where to push, who to talk to, and where to make submissive sounding statements or give up on something as not worth the effort.


Edit: Actually, I'll take my own advice and ask the thread a question to stimulate discussion.
If you were designing a campaign for this setting how would you do it? and what specifically would the campaign be?
Does it remind you of any other settings?

 

[Obloquy]

I'm still in the middle of reading it, so please use poiler tags, but I'm very interested by the interplays of the four types of magic. I just love dissecting this stuff, and I'm betting the rock-paper-scissors interplay has to do less with the types of energy and more with the origins related to the new and Elder Gods.

Arcane magic is whatever background, baseline energy was there, and it got gathered up in big chunks to make the divine mantles.

Holy energy is the collective power of the dead elder gods. Arcane magic cancels it a little because it reminds the Holy Magic of its original form and makes it break down. Holy magic cancels Fae magic and explodes with Infernal magic because the remnants of the Elder Gods really despise the surviving two, who are the origins of Fae and Infernal magic (Scythia and Naiya).

I think the rest of the interactions have to do with all the magic we see being usually performed on Earth, which is infused with Naiya's nature power everywhere. If ever the characters go into Hell, I'm betting on its home turf Infernal magic will cancel Fae rather than vice-versa.

...

Maybe. Moving on, I really love all the arrays of characters, and view points, and this is one of the biggest and most realistic displays of Plot Gambit Pile-ups crashing together and everyone needing to react fast that I've ever had the pleasure of reading. I really like how well portrayed all the characters are with virtues and flaws.

Even/Especially Tissany. I really wanted to cringe a few times early on with her being tactless and/or trying to kill Gabriel with clear malice early on, but we actually get to see her grow up, learn from her mistakes, suffer the consequences, and become a more mature person. It's a joy to read her realizing she messed up, and then getting up and trying to fix it.

Edit: Actually, I'll take my own advice and ask the thread a question to stimulate discussion.
If you were designing a campaign for this setting how would you do it? and what specifically would the campaign be?
Does it remind you of any other settings?

Click to shrink...

At first glance, it should practically the opposite of the Dresden Files RPG universe, in a FATE style setting (by Evil Hat), what with that being our world with the masquerade... but all of the fantasy kitchen sink elements, and the multiple faction & power interplays, they all map on well with the way the Dresden Files is organized, having all the power balances, etc.

From what I've seen of The Gods Are Bastards style of magic, it looks like the mechanics would be a good way to stat out the characters.

For example: Juniper

Skills: Total, 35 points​

+5 _ Endurance, Survival
+4 _ Lore, Presence
+3 _ Fists, Might,
+2 _ Intimidation, Conviction, Discipline
+1 _ Alertness, Empathy, Rapport, Scholarship, Stealth

Powers _ start with 10 Refresh​

-2 Inhuman Strength

Juniper deals 2 extra damage with each hit she lands, gets bonuses to lifting things, breaking objects, and grappling people, etc.​

-2 Inhuman Recovery

Total recovery. Physical consequences are one level lower. Endurance never restricts from lack of rest. Skip a night of sleep. Once per scene, supplemental to clear mild physical consequence. Juniper heals faster, recovers faster, but still carries around some wounds for a bit like when she got blasted by lightning, and she can pass out from exhaustion.​

-2 Inhuman Toughness

Armor 1 against all physical damage (meaning she takes 1 less damage from all attacks, so it's hard to hurt her, which we've seen)
2 added physical stress boxes. She can soak up a lot of damage, like getting a chunk blasted out of her chest by lightning.​

+3 Catch _ Fire and Holy magic can hurt her like normal. She can't quickly heal from fire damage.
-4 Sponsored Magic [Naiya]

She can cast plant-based magic, Fae magic... basically the stuff that comes from her mother, Naiya.​

-1 Refinement

Juniper gets +1 each to power and control of her nature magic. It uses the same Skills as mental resilience, but she's better with magic than she is with her regular mind, so this represents that.​

-1 Supernatural Sense

For whatever nature sense stuff she can feel through the Wild, from when we saw her PoV that one chapter.​

+1 Feeding Dependency

Junpier likes her meat raw and bloody, and she needs to stay well-supplied with proteins and fats to do what she does.​

-2 Inhuman Mental Toughness

Armor 1 against all mental damage (She can throw around a lot of magic and it's hard to upset her mentality)
2 added mental stress boxes.​

+1 The Catch [Nature]

Juniper needs to be in an environment with lots of nature around to stay centered. Otherwise her armor and extra stress boxes go away.
The first time we see her really lose her cool is her drawn-out freak-out and guilt problem the first time they spend time in a big city.​

Total: 10+3+1+1-2-2-2-4-1-2-1 = 10+5-(14) = 1 Refresh

Physical: OOOO[OO] (armor 1) (extra mild consequence)
Mental: OOO[OO] (armor 1)
Social: OOOO

Aspects: Young Dryad __ Raised in the Wild __ Attractive and Alluring __ Strong and Sturdy like a Tree __ Rules of Civilization vs the Law of the Jungle

...
I think that's a pretty accurate portrayal of what Juniper is capable of in the first bit of the story. Anything really big has been her or her mother acting out in times of duress, which counts for the mental stress of casting her spell (magic is cast from mental HP in this version), and she mostly relies on her physical strength for fights.

She's also right on the borderline between having free will and being a wild creature who can't control/resist her base nature, but she still has that 1 Refresh/Fate Point that identifies her as a person. The story mostly has her growing and getting more Refresh without getting much more power, to represent her better being able to choose her path in life. Sound about right?

 

[Xon]

The author was incredibly hostile to SB/SV on a couple places around the web, and the story has the standard "this has run forever by someone who hasn't done nearly enough planning" issues.

This guy has more characters than the A Song Of Ice And Fire book series, except has a complete unwillingness to prune the cast.

However the biggest issue is nailed in this post

The biggest problem with the story is that what we're told is completely at odds with what we're shown, for basically every character in every scene.

Click to shrink...

 

[Obloquy]

Really? Well, I'm only into Book 5 out of 13 so far, and I haven't noticed anything too glaring. It seems like it's doing a good job of portraying how confusing and messy life can be, especially in a world with magic involved, but my version of good might not overlap well with the popular understanding of how people consider it.

I really like a lot of the uncertainty and inherent biases I see in the characters, though. *shrugs*

 

[guyfromtheplace1]

The author was incredibly hostile to SB/SV on a couple places around the web, and the story has the standard "this has run forever by someone who hasn't done nearly enough planning" issues.

This guy has more characters than the A Song Of Ice And Fire book series, except has a complete unwillingness to prune the cast.

However the biggest issue is nailed in this post

Click to shrink...

Eh, I'll keep the criticism from that post in mind when I eventually get around to finishing the story, as some of it seems valid, but it probably won't make me enjoy it less.

 

[Xon]

Eh, I'll keep the criticism from that post in mind when I eventually get around to finishing the story, as some of it seems valid, but it probably won't make me enjoy it less.

Click to shrink...

The utter character spam, where no one important ever dies/goes away is a significant technical writing fault. You might be able to overlook it, but it does mean you will likely be faced with large sections of "why am I reading about this character I aggressively do not give a shit about"