The God's and Other Such Among Us

[Virgo with cheer]

The Thread where we can talk about all the Things Persona, Shin Megami Tensei, and other Atlus or Religious matters, whichever comes first! Plus, we won't crowd Unwelcome Storm-senpai's thread now! So come on in and start some All-Out Post attacks!

 

[Willard]

So I'm going to assume spoilers aren't a problem here. I got some questions.

I was wondering how many universe's were there in the SMT setting. Related to IV parts in particular. I vaguely remember that either before or when Maitreya is fought in it's "evolved form" that it mentions going through multiple universe's for some reason?

Which got me to thinking that since there's multiple's Nanashi's and Flynn's does that means all endings are effectively true? Is there some Nanashi in some other universe that chose every other route than the one my Nanashi took?

Does that mean at the endgame fight that YHVH is actually fighting an infinite or absurdly large number of Nanashi&Crew and getting his face stomped by all of them? Did he simply need to lose once in order to be dethroned? Does some version of him still rule other universe's?

Hell, did some version of Krishna&Crew succeed in creating their new universe? If so couldn't Krishna&Crew just assume some version of themselves will succeed or do they not know of the existence of other universe's? That doesn't make sense. Though I suppose that such an assumption would be useless to one actually wanting to accomplish anything.

Is there more than on Stephen?

Oh, why is YHVH such a prick in every incarnation?

Things like that.

 

[Virgo with cheer]

Allow me to answer your question my fine fellow! To start with, the SMT world and lore is interesting in the fact that EVERYTHING is real if it's been thought, even once, but how much it is thought to be real is what decides everything, from power, to influences over Creation. This is part of the balance of power in their world, what with minor nature spirits and lesser known monsters populating the lower side of the chart, and Gods and Satan, and others such with their 'unique' existences.
Why, if someone tried hard enough, they could legitimately form a contract with the Flying Spaghetti Monster. He has his own religion, which is better than most demons.

The deal with YHVH is that he is THAT specific creations ultimate one, and thus can be considered a 'constant' in a frankly uncountable number of universe due to so many people believing in an all-ruling God existing.
Multiverse theory goes very well if you can't tell already.

And the 'paths' that the player can follow, are just you choosing which 'truth' you want to follow. Create your own world, or leave it be and try to make some new pieces of that jigsaw mess of a world, If you want to get philosophical.

Also, God is a dick, this was an established fact. Seriously though, the reason he's such a dick to you in game is because YOU are not a constant like everything else on his and like minded creatures(say Lucifer), play board. He doesn't want some ignorant(in his eyes) human, former or otherwise, f*cking up his project that he worked so hard on. So yeah, you're the little kid kicking sandcastles of creation in what he views as a temper tantrum, as HE will never have to worry about death, or caring about others, and just expects you to come off your high horse in a few hundred years.

 

[Ms. Effy]

Well. Metaphysically, there are multiple timelines. This is a core part of Persona 2, SMT if..., and something you can learn from the bonus bosses in both the Avatar Tuner/Digital Devil Saga games.

There are also multiple universes. These universes exist within the Amala system, and constantly pass through a cycle of death and rebirth. This is a core part of Nocturne. Beyond Amala is Makai, the Expanse or the Emptiness, which is where demons hang out.

There's killing and then there's killing. Ordinarily, a dead demon will revive at the Sea of Milk in Makai, or somewhere else appropriate to their particular allegiances. It is possible to achieve a greater level of death, which locks the demon out of that universe. Oftentimes, however, you don't even kill the boss monster, you merely force them to concede defeat.

So, for illustrative examples, in Strange Journey, the four bosses of the first four sectors are revived by Tiamat in Sector Fornax after you kill them, but Mem Aleph doesn't and can't revive after you kill her in the Law and Neutral endings. Meanwhile, when you fight Brahman in Digital Devil Saga 2, you winning the fight merely convinces Brahma to rebuild the world for the unenlightened as Seraph achieves liberation from the cycles of the world.