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The Dragon Prince

Tasrill

Tasrill

So they put out a trailer for the next thing from one of the executive producers/writers of Avatar: The Last Airbender and...



Well it is a real shame about that framerate. I mean at this point even Japan has realized that limiting the framerate on 3d in an attempt to ape 2d really doesn't work. Smears exist for a reason in 2d animation.

Really everything else seems good to at worst fine but man does that massive choppiness take me out of this.
 
That framerate is nngggggg Not Good, everything else is ace though.
 
Yeeeah, that framerate is a real turn-off.

Shame, since it looked... interesting? I mean, announcement trailers aren't really helpful in predicting the quality of something.
 
I don't think I'll be physically capable of watching this. The framerate makes it just look like the video is buffering the entire time.
 
I'll reserve judgment when we have more than a teaser, but yeah that framerate is a bummer.
 
I really want to be able to like this because Aaron Ehasz, but yikes.... Hopefully the story makes up for it.
 
>literally the first second of motion

Yep it's shit, call the whole thread off.

Like should we just pre-giveup on all CGI animation from this point on or should we keep opening ourselves up for letdown?
 
Well, the episodes are released, and the animation is not as bad as the trailers make it. Still some noticeable hiccups during some of the up-close shots, but comparing to the trailer footage it actually looks like the added more frames. If you mussel through the first few episodes, which isn't hard thanks to good characters, solid world building, and an interesting plot, you get used to it so that only the egregious stuff jumps out.

The three main character, Ezran, Callum, and Rayla, are all solid and well rounded individuals with chemistry who have gotten proper set-ups to future development, and the world feels very rich, alive, and distinct. Magic feels unique in how the 'primal sources' are tied into the world itself and how it is used by people. The Dark Magic of the setting seems like it might get a better shake in the future, but that's up in the air because we only have two people who use it, one of whom is the clear antagonist, and at the end of the day it still uses living creatures as a fuel source.

I'd say keep watching it, all told.
 
Seconded, having seen the first season, I think it's worth giving a shot. I'm interested in seeing where it goes.
 
About the Framerate, the creators agreed about it at PAX, but it was too late to fix once the problem became clear. They intend to do away with it in following seasons.
 
I just finished watching the season, I really liked it! I do agree that a lot of the animation/framerate issues faded away after a few episodes, and the writing is good enough to keep me invested. I like that it seems like this series is going to take its time at dealing with the final threat. Legend of Korra dealt with a new threat each season, and I would argue that came to the detriment of strengthening the characters. Dragon Prince seems to be taking a note from TLA by moving slowly with the plot, and it's already paying off by deepening the characters.

Ezran, Callum, and Rayla are the main characters of this story, and they are all pretty well cemented. I like how Ezran is still this goofy kid, but you can tell that he's got a lot of good qualities to be a leader. He's extremely perceptive and critical, and he works great as an arbiter. Callum is voiced by the same actor who voiced Sokka, and while I may be a bit unfair here, I simply think of Callum as Sokka's reincarnation. Finally, there's Rayla, who I would argue is the most complex of the trio so far, and I love her voice actor. She's got a self-imposed serious streak to her, but she's also got plenty of funny scenes. She's also a fan of Naruto.

Most of the antagonists seem interesting. I like General Amaya a lot--although I admit I'm a sucker for shield-bashing badasses. She's obviously extremely determined and has a vicious streak, but also caring. I liked that she didn't always have her translator voice out everything she signed. Claudia and Soren are a good duo with plenty of funny scenes. We unfortunately don't get to see enough of them for me to form more of an opinion, although I'm pretty sure that we'll get more in the next season.

Lord Viren is a bit of a mixed bag for me, honestly. There are times where we see flashes of humanity in him, but a lot more often he just seems a bit cruel and vicious because he needs to be. I'm guessing he' actually terrified and desperate, but it so far hasn't been fully confirmed. I can't help but think he's just power hungry, but his moments of compassion seems to be hinting that there's more to him. Also a lot of his interactions with the other adults in this show has a severe case of whiplash, going from extremely hostile to amicable to extremely hostile in the span of a few minutes. It left me scratching my head more often than not.

Finally, I would say that this season ends a bit at a weird spot. It's a soft cliffhanger, although I would argue it's more like they ended the season at a midpoint. Maybe the writers were told to end it that way, or maybe it's because they're expected to have six or seven short seasons instead of 3 long seasons. None of the less, they got a lot of ways that they can develop the story, ranging from character interactions to world-building. I'm excited to see what they come up with next.
 
Whachamacallit said:
Lord Viren is a bit of a mixed bag for me, honestly. There are times where we see flashes of humanity in him, but a lot more often he just seems a bit cruel and vicious because he needs to be. I'm guessing he' actually terrified and desperate, but it so far hasn't been fully confirmed. I can't help but think he's just power hungry, but his moments of compassion seems to be hinting that there's more to him. Also a lot of his interactions with the other adults in this show has a severe case of whiplash, going from extremely hostile to amicable to extremely hostile in the span of a few minutes. It left me scratching my head more often than not.
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Yeah, his motivation, back story, and goals seem to change per episode. At some point they really need to nail him down.
 
Whachamacallit said:
Finally, I would say that this season ends a bit at a weird spot. It's a soft cliffhanger, although I would argue it's more like they ended the season at a midpoint. Maybe the writers were told to end it that way, or maybe it's because they're expected to have six or seven short seasons instead of 3 long seasons. None of the less, they got a lot of ways that they can develop the story, ranging from character interactions to world-building. I'm excited to see what they come up with next.
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Netflix does this a lot. Releases the first half of an original season to get a feel for how the show is going to be received, so that they can hedge their bets better in future production.
 
Viren is a Hard Man Making Hard Decisions, and is predictably as obliviously villainous as that ethos would make you be. In the scene where Viren was having a glimmer of a conscience, the king nevertheless read everything else about him like a book. That his 'shortcuts' had long term costs that outweighed any benefits when they should've been searching for real lasting solutions which is the real 'hard' decision. And that Viren is convinced he is super important because only he can be a Hard enough Man to Do What Needs To Be Done. He's convinced himself he's making the hard selfless choices, when he's really just making the easy and self-serving ones.
 
I definitely agree with you @firefossil but I still feel myself somewhat wanting. I think it's because he keeps on making decisions that are clearly bad--although in retrospect it fits with your idea of his short term view point.

Like when he tells Soren to kill the princes, it's hard for me to view his actions as anything else but a power grab. At best, Lord Viron is risking a coup against him by General Amaya, since she trusts him much less than she can throw him--to be fair, she can throw him pretty far, but I also find myself fully attracted to her so... maybe I'm not the best arbiter...

But admittedly, in a very short term view, I could see him thinking it was a good idea, although he's an idiot to think so.

Maybe I've been spoiled by the antagonists of Legend of Korra. While the general season had its problems, the antagonists were always these idealists who went too far, and I'm secretly hoping that Lord Viren fits that mold. Perhaps he' just a bit of an idiot though. It still makes his moments of introspection weird.
 
Whachamacallit said:
Maybe I've been spoiled by the antagonists of Legend of Korra. While the general season had its problems, the antagonists were always these idealists who went too far, and I'm secretly hoping that Lord Viren fits that mold. Perhaps he' just a bit of an idiot though. It still makes his moments of introspection weird.
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Viren isn't an idealist, he's a cynic. He thinks that a moment's weakness would end with the elves breaking through and genociding all the humans, so in that light, no sacrifice is too great. Even as each sacrifice made to 'solve' a crisis simply creates another bigger crisis in the future (which only he can solve of course), but that only compels him to insist even harder on the necessity of sacrifice. As Cory Doctorow put it:
Hugh Farnham, the hero of Farnham's Freehold, has a signature move: when people disagree with him, he barks ''Lifeboat rules!'' at them and pats his sidearm. Hugh Farnham is the proprietor of a nuclear fallout shelter that has managed, thanks to his excellent timing and foresight, to have rescued his family and some of their friends. The shelter is their ''lifeboat,'' the only thing standing between them and certain death in an uncaring universe where the cold equations of nuclear fission dictate that rules must be followed.
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Heinlein's Hugh Farnham is a character who is in charge of everything except the circumstances that led to him having to coerce, cajole, and terrorize the people around him. He's that character because Heinlein wrote him that way.
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Even saints get exasperated with other humans from time to time. What a treat it would be if the rest of the world would just realize that what's best for you is simply the best course of action, period. That's the moral hazard in cold equations, the existential crisis of lifeboat rules. If being in a lifeboat gives you the power to make everyone else shut the hell up and listen (or else), then wouldn't it be awfully convenient if our ship were to go down?
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The thing about lifeboat rules is that they are an awfully good deal for lifeboat captains.
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Viren really doesn't get how self-serving his actions are on multiple levels, because he's convinced that his ideas are best ideas and thus taking command and forcing them onto everyone else is totally for their own good not his.
 
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firefossil said:
Viren isn't an idealist, he's a cynic. He thinks that a moment's weakness would end with the elves breaking through and genociding all the humans, so in that light, no sacrifice is too great. Even as each sacrifice made to 'solve' a crisis simply creates another bigger crisis in the future (which only he can solve of course), but that only compels him to insist even harder on the necessity of sacrifice. As Cory Doctorow put it:




Viren really doesn't get how self-serving his actions are on multiple levels, because he's convinced that his ideas are best ideas and thus taking command and forcing them onto everyone else is totally for their own good not his.
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Lord Viren I feel really needed a soft touch to steer him to his better nature. Instead we get argument and resentment building up.

He is a asshole but one you really wish would listen to the nicer aspects of his personality or with the hints we get what he used to be like when he was younger.

I just really like him and not in a pity what the monster once was or he is a fun villian which he is but more that I want him to stop being such a dick for his own good.
 
NotAlwaysFanfic said:
Netflix does this a lot. Releases the first half of an original season to get a feel for how the show is going to be received, so that they can hedge their bets better in future production.
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Going by the recent AMA interview on reddit, unfortunately it seems 9 episodes are all the production team have created by now, and the showrunners are still waiting on a greenlight for renewal from Netflix. I think the reception are good enough to guarantee a renewal, but it is pretty much a bummer that we will have to wait nearly a year for the next season.
 
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Well, I watched the show yesterday, and I quite liked it.
I didn't notice any animation issues - but I also wasn't looking for them, not having been informed about them in advance. Perfectly watchable to me, doesn't mean this has to go for everyone, obviously.
My one major complaint is that the first seasons could really have used some more slice-of-life stuff. Two half-epidodes worth of it or so could really have fleshed out the main characters a lot more - I like them all well enough, but that just means I want to see them interact more, and want to learn more about them.

I really hope this show gets renewed because it promises a lot:
- lots of inclusivity. Various racial and cultural backgrounds, various disabilities, all treated well and without much fuzz. No LGBT-representation so far, but one can hope.
- characters that I like, and have never found annoying so far.
- A plot that promises to be interesting, since it's about more than "get to X location" but rather about solving a complex political problem (well, hopefully it will be).
- interesting antagonists because Virren did seem to have genuine attachment to the King, and will have to struggle with both his children, and General Amaia.
- interesting magic, and hopefully interesting cultures based around it
- it's pretty to watch
None of that makes it a truly special stand-out show yet. But I think it has the potential to get there.
 
I actually liked the animation and felt it did a good job of integrating 3D to look like 2D. I mean yes it was a bit wonky in earlier episodes and weakest when doing close up shots of talking characters, but outside of that it was good for action scenes and more general profiles, which is you know, where it needs to be good.
 
firefossil said:
I actually liked the animation and felt it did a good job of integrating 3D to look like 2D. I mean yes it was a bit wonky in earlier episodes and weakest when doing close up shots of talking characters, but outside of that it was good for action scenes and more general profiles, which is you know, where it needs to be good.
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I found the slowing down was very well done and there were certain scenes when the interplay of light and shadow turned it into a goddam gorgeous painting at times.
 
Wheel of time said:
I found the slowing down was very well done and there were certain scenes when the interplay of light and shadow turned it into a goddam gorgeous painting at times.
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Yeah if anything the show sold me on the "3D CGI+cel shaded+reduced framerate" as being able to produce a watchable simulacrum of an animated show, significantly better than what few other shows I've seen that've tried such. And that it wasn't perfect but with more work you could fix that as well. Then you can have the style of 2D animation with the cheaper cost and better options of 3D animation at once.
 
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