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Summoning the Sun II

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Ixenathier said:
I think you missed the point I was trying to make.


Different Cosmology results in different "Truth" of what the concept is. A "God" from Exalted would have a very different version of concepts than one from the Forgotten Realms. THAT is what I was saying.


"Gods" from the same Cosmology would have very similar "Languages" more along the lines of accents or local dialects. Like people that live in the same country or region.


One from a world with a totally different make up would have at the very least some minor errors in communication at least at first.


A full Divinity would be able to bypass such problems due to being that Cheat-tacular powerful/knowledgeable. A servitor spirit from said worlds would have far less flexibility.


The whole point in this is not "they can cheat because they are gods" it is would different worlds or cosmologies have different spirit languages.


As for being able to just "Here is the concept" that would only work if they realized that there was a disconnect.


Note: this only applies to non-creator class or higher divinities. That sort just goes "Let them understand" and it is so. No fun using domain powers to cheat.
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That can be the case when one is trying to integrate very different and incompatible cosmologies, when you are only trying to integrate 2 cosmologies where one is only vaguely defined, the Word as an inherent cosmic truth regardless, of the universe is a very elegant solution, of course YMMV

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Leoric said:
Sounds abit like the Devine Alphabet in D&D(i know its mentioned in planescape atleast), where each "letter" is a greater concept or aspect of reality and combined is in fact all of reality. While each letter has a rudamentary understanding of the others their powers and knowledge when not in communion with the greater whole is drasticly limited to almost only what they themselves represent.
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That's about the idea, except there is no real alphabet so to speak of, just words that represent facets of reality and just ARE, each god has there own level of understanding of the words, with a minimum level of what normal humans understand.
 
nununu said:
Ammy already 'talks' with Irukukwu through telepathy just fine so we know Translation Convention is at work. Ammy is also familiar with kotodama which, as a concept, applies to runes, spells and geas. And the symbolism of names/characters.
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Irukukwu has one other advantage when she talks to Ammy. As a familiar, she canonically got a low frequency language, same with all the other familiars. This allows them them to converse with one another without tipping off their human masters.


Not that Ammy needs to use something so crude of course, since she can, in Irukukwu's own words, 'talk without talking'.
 
Jiven said:
Isn't that fanon ?
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No, the Tabitha Side Stories established that Irukukwu was capable of two way conversation with Flame (I forgot his actual name) and a few other familiars who didn't have human language capability. This was explained as a familiar's language.

One minor correction is that their language isn't strictly a low frequency thing, but based more on body language and visual cues. It is sufficiently complex to be compared to any human language.
 
Is it just me, or did Irukukwu hint that Rhyme Dragons use the same kind of "magic", ie flat out reality warping, as Ammy does. Whenever she mentioned Ammy's abilities she calls it the Rhyme. She uses the same phrase when discussing her Big Big Sis, the other Rhyme Dragon. I may be reading too much into this though.


Also, Ammy has purification abilities, right? She could use those to make the 70,000 man fight a hell of a lot easier by breaking the mind control that a chunk of Tristan's army gets hit with. Might actually make the fight not happen, now that I think of it. The shock value of having Reconquesta's mind-controlled backup turn on them might be enough for Tristan's army to get back in the fight.
 
No, she has regular cursebreaking skills as well, using brush techniques. The "draw a circle around a dead, cursed tree and it comes back to life" thing.

Not to mention that she'll probably see some physical manifestation of the control floating over them that she can cut.

ninja'd
 
The17thImmortal said:
Good point, forgot about that (been a while since I last played). However keep in mind all of those guys were also high-level demons, versus Ammy being an actual god – youki vs. tenki (demonic vs. celestial ki), in other words.


It's the question of what effects a growing source of tenki would have on Louise, when she had previously been pure human, is the point I'm trying to make, here.
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The nine-tails became a god when she(?) possessed the fox-rods. Being able to use the celestial brush and gaining a constellation.
 
Zeful said:
The nine-tails became a god when she(?) possessed the fox-rods. Being able to use the celestial brush and gaining a constellation.
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Actually, as I understand it, the Fox-Rods were basically access keys to the Nine-tails power. So it's less that he/she was a god and more of a kitsune/demon with power enough (though sealed) to challenge one on her own ground and make her own constellation.


Yami was able to muck up the constellations too, and he certainly wasn't a god. The way I see it, constellations are less about godly power, and more about being just so damn powerful, the stars are affected by it.


Admittedly this probably won't show up in the story with the stars (outside of the local sun) being a little more immutable to the whims of godly beings.
 
I actually thought the foxrods were...


Notice how there are nine of them, and how they seem to be hollow and sealed with fabric?

Kuda-gitsune, tube foxes, or pipe foxes, are kept in...bamboo pipes and are used as familiars. Also the Nine Tails's...tails, and what happens to them when you kick it's ass in battle.

I thought the Foxrods were the NineTail's tails--other foxes. And once you killed/banished all of them, the nine tails was left with it's own one naturally occurring tail.
 
Well obviously I didn't mean keys in the literal sense, but I always imagined them to be something like Ammy's lost brush powers. Originally hers, but lost/banished over time.
 
The17thImmortal said:
But this is all off-point, anyway. I wasn't asking about what other creatures could use brush techiques; I was asking what having part of Ammy's essence – who can use brush techniques – inside of her would do to Louise.
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Well it wouldn't make her a sun goddess, that's for certain. :p

On the other hand, once she does learn the truth, she can honestly say that she has been marked by a god.


But if you're asking if that means she can use brush powers eventually, the answer is no. You need to be able to grasp higher planes of reality (time stop paint mode), to be able to exert your will upon lower reality.


Also, she doesn't have a tail.
 
Meh, Issun could use them, couldn't he? He was terribad at doing it, but he could use them, if only to make tiny flowers appear. So it's not completely impossible that she might learn to do minor tricks with it.
 
Though Issun did have a few things in his favour to learn those brush techniques (being a species who serve as messengers of the gods helps), that is a fair point.

It's just that the circumstances leading to Louise learning about the existence of Celestial Brush Techniques, much less enough to use them, is a bit hard to create without it being ham fisted.

Not to say that carrying a sliver of celestial essence doesn't have other, more natural, effects. Nothing major of course. But Ammy did mean it in every sense of the word when she said Louise would one day grow to the strength that is hers.
 
nununu said:
I don't think it's your style but is this a hint that Louise might try her hand at Firstborn magic?
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Pfff. Try again.

Firstborn magic is about making contracts and pacts with assorted spirits to borrow some of their power for your own use. That's not what's happening here. Unless Bardishel starts showing up on a chibi white wolf that is. But that's probably not going to happen. :p
 
As amusing as the idea is, I just can't imagine god-Louise. It refuses to form in my mind. Not to mention the whole worship business. I mean, who would want to be her priestess?
 
volrath77 said:
I just checked and it seems that the links for the previous chapters are all dead. Apparently, internal forum thread links did not survive the transition.
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Word of twitter is the internal links will magically work again tomorrow.
 
Mashadarof402 said:
It's just that the circumstances leading to Louise learning about the existence of Celestial Brush Techniques, much less enough to use them, is a bit hard to create without it being ham fisted.
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Have her be looking through Ammy's eyes via the familiar bond when Ammy uses a technique in battle (the most likely occasion in which Ammy would be using a Brush Technique while Louise would have a reason to be tapping into her familiar's senses). Her connection to the Void might make her soul count as just "Other" enough from a normal mortal that she'd be able to see that moment of stopped time.

Or have her end up accompanying Ammy into the realm of the gods when Ammy picks up a local Brush Technique.

She still probably wouldn't be able to use them, since she isn't a god and is unlikely to become one. But they might influence any spells she creates herself.
 
TheSandman said:
Have her be looking through Ammy's eyes via the familiar bond when Ammy uses a technique in battle (the most likely occasion in which Ammy would be using a Brush Technique while Louise would have a reason to be tapping into her familiar's senses). Her connection to the Void might make her soul count as just "Other" enough from a normal mortal that she'd be able to see that moment of stopped time.

Or have her end up accompanying Ammy into the realm of the gods when Ammy picks up a local Brush Technique.

She still probably wouldn't be able to use them, since she isn't a god and is unlikely to become one. But they might influence any spells she she creates herself.
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No, it would be horribly contrived, and could possibly ruin the story. Tell me, how could it benefit the story, if you think it's such a good idea?
 
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