I'm pretty sure we've had side phasers which could fire front and aft but not the other side before. Probably on ships with less complex secondary hulls to obscure sight.
In fact, we have two on this very ship, the ventral engineering turrets.
This is going to sound insane, but the industry costs aren't bad at all so far for what we're building here. Each COPERNICUS currently costs less than 2 Cygnus-class cruisers in terms of civilian cost, and less Starfleet industry than a Thunderchild-class battleship for more firepower and vastly improved defenses.
In any event, I would also lean towards the large cargo bay and maximum speciality labs with a secondary computer core. There's no way we want to give up astrometrics (chart new star systems) for range that becomes much less useful without astrometrics.
We have our science ship and utility workhorse for stuff close to home; this ship is meant to handle stuff further out. I think we need the range, or else we'll just build more affordable platforms rather than any of these behemoths, however capable these may be.
Initial thoughts: I want to go far. Four Year Mission, full steam ahead.
So that means: need the antimatter pod. Need the extra crew quarters for the really long missions; also, probably, really really want fabrication capability when you're way out in the black. So that's 2, 4, and 1 locked in. Really want one cargo bay, too, but we're down to two slots for science and...I think, again, for the super long range missions, you want the advanced medical capability, and while the geology is a really cool capability to have, we're light on Science components and we need to put a cargo bay somewhere while keeping science rating up, so...That puts us at the following
Totals +6 Science, +3 Engineering, +2 Cargo, and two additional Capabilities (one Scientific, one Engineering) for +2 Cost.
...but while it's a great ship to go out and meet people and make friends we're still looking a little light on Science, and really light on Capabilities in general, to justify our incredible expense. Worse, though, is that it's even better at invasion than exploration. With the speed, size, and armament, it...it feels like a Trek-verse East Indiaman, built to cruise to India and Java and the Spice Islands and impress the local princelings and bring back tribute in silk and pearls and cinnamon and peppercorns. I'm not saying that's what we'd actually do with it, of course. But it...it would be really good at that. It feels like the design team missed out on our cultural mandate to be The Good Guys.
So let's see what the opposite plan looks like- maximum capability, settle for the two-year range.
So we start off by taking every single +Science +Capability option.
Then we ponder the Science Labs versus the Large Cargo Bay...I think I gotta come down on the side of the Science Labs, here; if we're gonna focus on scientific capability then let's go all in.
So that just leaves workshop or cargo for Option 1. The threadmark hinted real strongly that we should take at least one cargo bay, but if we're not ranging quite so far then I'm not convinced that supply capacity outweighs fabrication capability; I guess it comes down to how you prioritize relief missions versus technical problem-solving.
Actually, you know what, when I put it that way, I've changed my own mind. If the Federation can't take care of people then it's not living up to its ideals. We need to have the supplies to save sentients in need. We'll just have to trust the lower-decks crew to pull off the occasional miracle.
[ ] Plan: White Knights & White Labcoats - No Geology Edition
-[ ] 1: Engineering Workshop (+2 Engineering, Capability: Fabrication)
-[ ] 2: Secondary Computer Core (+1 Science, Capability: Advanced Computers, +1 Cost)
-[ ] 3: Science Labs (+4 Science)
-[ ] 4: Astrometrics (+2 Science, Capability: Astrometrics)
-[ ] 5: Biosciences (+2 Science, Capability: Advanced Medical)
-[ ] 6: Cargo Bay (+1 Engineering, Capability: +2 Cargo)
+9 Science, +3 Engineering, +2 Cargo, four additional Capabilities for +1 Cost. (Just because I really, really wanted a double-digit Science rating, and while Geology is cool it's easily the most skippable of the specialty sciences.)
I like that better. (Any of the three versions.) It feels...it feels like the Curiosity's big brother, it feels like a Federation Starship should, like no one can accuse it of being a warship despite its mass and might, because it's so clearly built for, and out of, sheer love of exploration. It's...an Explorer.
Now I know we're not doing plan votes here, so...I guess I just vote for all the +Science components and hope for the best. But I wanted to go into my reasoning a bit instead of just coming across as kneejerk SCIENCE ALL THE THINGS memelord.
We have our science ship and utility workhorse for stuff close to home; this ship is meant to handle stuff further out. I think we need the range, or else we'll just build more affordable platforms rather than any of these behemoths, however capable these may be.
2 to 3 years out is still a lot, especially for the era we're in. I feel like at this early stage in the Federation's lifespan (which is to say, extremely early into it) we can get away with not having as much range.
The only thing missing is social sciences this setup achieves generalization through specialization and has max synergy potential between all the science departments the advanced computer and the fabrication capacity. Its the best setup to justify the costs and all prototype tech we jammed in to this frame.
@Sayle
Is there any chance for a Thunderchild refit has a mobile support base to make peace time usage from its engineering ability?
We have our science ship and utility workhorse for stuff close to home; this ship is meant to handle stuff further out. I think we need the range, or else we'll just build more affordable platforms rather than any of these behemoths, however capable these may be.
...but while it's a great ship to go out and meet people and make friends we're still looking a little light on Science, and really light on Capabilities in general, to justify our incredible expense. Worse, though, is that it's even better at invasion than exploration. With the speed, size, and armament, it...it feels like a Trek-verse East Indiaman, built to cruise to India and Java and the Spice Islands and impress the local princelings and bring back tribute in silk and pearls and cinnamon and peppercorns. I'm not saying that's what we'd actually do with it, of course. But it...it would be really good at that. It feels like the design team missed out on our cultural mandate to be The Good Guys.
It could also easily go do the reverse though. Do some proactive anti imperialism and go shoot down the not-british's attempts at bullying less developed polities while building diplomatic ties, while scouting for colonies and interesting biology on the road. the fact it's also equipped for most relief missions with its loadout would also be very helpful there.
Totals +11 Science, +1 Engineering, +2 Cargo, and four additional Capabilities for +1 Cost.
I like that better. It feels...it feels like the Curiosity's big brother, it feels like a Federation Starship should, like no one can accuse it of being a warship despite its mass and might, because it's so clearly built for, and out of, sheer love of exploration. It's...an Explorer.
Now I know we're not doing plan votes here, so...I guess I just vote for all the +Science components and hope for the best. But I wanted to go into my reasoning a bit instead of just coming across as kneejerk SCIENCE ALL THE THINGS memelord.
I really think passing on engineering is a mistake on a long deployment ship of this size. We've seen what it could do on the thunderchild and it's only one aux slot to have that capacity.
The all-specialized-science plan is more solid than this if you don't want the range, I feel.
I'm going to take the "no extra range" side. Even though having it would really be nice I'd rather not have to give up astrometrics for the improved crew quarters. I would maybe have been willing to sacrifice one of the others though.
Honestly, the lab I am most willing to give up for cargo is Geology. Leave a bunch of the planets for the Curiosity class to pick up as the planetary survey ship once the Federation actually starts expanding into the area.
It's 3 Engineering+4 Cargo+1 Capability for 4 more Science, actually, if you compare the two variant plans in the edited post.
(I know Cargo is listed as a Capability, but I'm thinking of it as a numeric stat, my brain just likes it better that way. Sorry.)
I really think passing on engineering is a mistake on a long deployment ship of this size. We've seen what it could do on the thunderchild and it's only one aux slot to have that capacity.
The all-specialized-science plan is more solid than this if you don't want the range, I feel.
Yeah, it probably is better overall. Really wanted to hit double-digit Science, though. *sigh* Kinda wish we could split the Large slot at #3 into small lab and small cargo (+2 Science, +1 Engineering, +2 Cargo).
Thread consensus seems pretty dang clear that going for long range is right out because crew quarters versus astrometrics is an impossible choice for that mission profile.
This bad boy can go to the edge of the map, spend time supporting the construction of an outpost and resupply point and still spend years surveying nearby systems. Then go refuel and do it all over again.
Changed my mind on the antimatter pods - we just aren't there on full Five Year Mission loadouts yet. Otherwise, I remain convinced that the three specialist labs + HUEG cargo bay setup is optimal for our purposes.
I think after this is just the final judgement where we get to see if Yolodyne fucked it up again or not?
So far, we've been pretty lucky on Experimentals this project, which got is an absolute beast of a ship without completely breaking our bank to get there (It's currently a daunting, but affordable approach that gives tremendous utility in all fields at the expense of costing twice that of a Cygnus), but there's still the all-important Warp Factor which we can't learn until we've built one and given it the shakedown cruise.
I'm actually very excited to see how the Copernicus does, it's our first no shit Explorer since Starfleet's founding, and so far, it's looking very much like it'll stand proud among the other ships of its classification.
