Endorfinator
Awkwardly Social
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- California
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- He/Him
Stellar Dynamics to round out our scientific facilities, and I think now is the time to take cargo and round out our tertiary engineering portfolio.
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That's not a D6 that's a damn D7!anyway, for people who have been wondering why I am... let's say, concerned, about Klingon Battlecruisers, this is a D6 next to a Sagarmatha:
The Klingon D6 is a very substantial ship. It is, in point of fact, used to being the Big Fish in this era. This is why I sincerely doubt the assertion that it will be half the connie's mass. I, in point of fact, assume that it is going to substantially oughweigh any ship we can produce for some time
Per starshipschematics.net
| Subclass | Designation | Ship Name | Translation | Source | Official |
|---|
| Battle Cruiser | D-7 | Klolode | Destruction | Bibliography | Yes |
Title: Star Trek (Original Series)
----- "Day of the Dove"
Author(s): Gene Roddenberry, Jerome Bixby and Marvin Chomsky
Publication Date: 1968
View Related Ships:
- Location
- Actually pretty lost
I mean aside from any schematics, if the QM says it's half the mass of this ship, it's half the mass. A QM's ruling overrides anything else.That's not a D6 that's a damn D7!
Per starshipschematics.net
Subclass Designation Ship Name Translation Source Official
Battle Cruiser D-7 Klolode Destruction Bibliography Yes
Title: Star Trek (Original Series)
----- "Day of the Dove"
Author(s): Gene Roddenberry, Jerome Bixby and Marvin Chomsky
Publication Date: 1968
View Related Ships:
Well there's your answer, it's a long-range explorer meant to be the first, but not last ship we send into unexplored territory. The Chemistry Lab is more for follow-up of something that's already been discovered, while Stellar Dynamics might enable the ship to identify interesting systems in the first place. Stellar Dynamics might also be an unexpected help with diplomacy by potentially identifying stellar civilization by unusual emissions at range, allowing the ship to go in knowing there's a civilization there before accidentally violating someone's territory. The chem lab is basically for getting more science out of things that have already been found, so it's better saved for follow up ships, rather than the first explorer.
Sizes in this quest have been very wonky, with at least one major recon for how big things are.
I'm not contesting mass, I'm just contesting the idea that that's a D6 compared to one of our Sagarmatha's when it's one of their successors next to it.
Mass, but yeah.
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[X] Stellar Dynamics (+2 Science)
[X] Extra Crew Quarters
Going to explain my reasoning for why I picked or didn't pick each option.
Stellar Dynamics: Is going to be useful for exploration, may or may not be useful for detecting enemy bases in war, or something like that.
Chemistry: Ship already has generalist Science Labs, and I figure Expanded Medical helps with analyzing biological stuff, so a specialized chemistry lab is almost never going to be needed. If it does find something interesting that the onboard facilities are not equipped to analyze, just take a sample along.
Extra Crew Quarters: Going by the assumption that there are no useless trap options, I figure Extra Crew Quarters helps with prolonged deployments, due to baseline crew quarters being fairly cramped.
Cargo Bay: As I stated in my previous post, I am under the impression that the Cargo Bay is there to let the ship act as a cargo hauler and does not meaningfully improve the ships own endurance. And the latest update seems to back this up, as this option is described as being "useful for ferrying supplies". While this isn't useless, I believe it would be a waste to have the ship perform in that role, due to both lower performance and higher cost. In the event cargo needs to be delivered to a dangerous area, instead of putting in a bit of cargo space onto the ship and having it deliver the cargo, send a ship specialized in carrying cargo as well as a combat ship to escort it.
Edit:
A few more comments:
Lack of Chemistry lab is probably mitigated by Science Labs better than lack of Stellar Dynamics, and that's without taking into account Expanded Medical. Also, consider the kind of things that tend to be encountered in canon. Stellar Dynamics helps with weird anomalies in space, the ship has Expanded Medical for biological stuff, Chemistry just isn't going to be needed all that much. Where Stellar Dynamics helps the ship survive those weird stellar phenomena and Medical helps if the crew has contracted some sort of disease, or if the ship encounters a planet or some other ship with a medical issue. Meanwhile, lack of Chemistry lab would merely result in the occasional "Gee, a specialized chemistry lab would be nice right about now, oh well, better put a sample of this strange material we found in storage, or just log the place we found it so someone else can study it".
Extra Crew Quarters, I am assuming baseline crew quarters are not something the crew just gets used to, and taking the Extra Crew Quarters is necessary to deal with the problem.
[X] Extra Crew Quarters
Going to explain my reasoning for why I picked or didn't pick each option.
Stellar Dynamics: Is going to be useful for exploration, may or may not be useful for detecting enemy bases in war, or something like that.
Chemistry: Ship already has generalist Science Labs, and I figure Expanded Medical helps with analyzing biological stuff, so a specialized chemistry lab is almost never going to be needed. If it does find something interesting that the onboard facilities are not equipped to analyze, just take a sample along.
Extra Crew Quarters: Going by the assumption that there are no useless trap options, I figure Extra Crew Quarters helps with prolonged deployments, due to baseline crew quarters being fairly cramped.
Cargo Bay: As I stated in my previous post, I am under the impression that the Cargo Bay is there to let the ship act as a cargo hauler and does not meaningfully improve the ships own endurance. And the latest update seems to back this up, as this option is described as being "useful for ferrying supplies". While this isn't useless, I believe it would be a waste to have the ship perform in that role, due to both lower performance and higher cost. In the event cargo needs to be delivered to a dangerous area, instead of putting in a bit of cargo space onto the ship and having it deliver the cargo, send a ship specialized in carrying cargo as well as a combat ship to escort it.
Edit:
A few more comments:
Lack of Chemistry lab is probably mitigated by Science Labs better than lack of Stellar Dynamics, and that's without taking into account Expanded Medical. Also, consider the kind of things that tend to be encountered in canon. Stellar Dynamics helps with weird anomalies in space, the ship has Expanded Medical for biological stuff, Chemistry just isn't going to be needed all that much. Where Stellar Dynamics helps the ship survive those weird stellar phenomena and Medical helps if the crew has contracted some sort of disease, or if the ship encounters a planet or some other ship with a medical issue. Meanwhile, lack of Chemistry lab would merely result in the occasional "Gee, a specialized chemistry lab would be nice right about now, oh well, better put a sample of this strange material we found in storage, or just log the place we found it so someone else can study it".
Extra Crew Quarters, I am assuming baseline crew quarters are not something the crew just gets used to, and taking the Extra Crew Quarters is necessary to deal with the problem.
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It's more about mission priority. An Explorer needs to be able to kick large amounts of ass, because it's going out into the interstellar wilds all on its onesy and has to be able to get out of any trouble it gets in to, but "kick large amounts of ass" isn't the main focus of the design. In point of fact, Explorers generally aren't tightly focused on any single role, because the mission they're build for might require them to fight off Krenorbian attack ships on Monday, solve the mystery of the Disappearing Moon of Galtraxia on Tuesday, build a long-range communications relay on Wednesday, cure the Dedrotirte Plague on Thursday, negotiate a peace settlement between the Krenorbians and the Xanaxians on Friday, and survive accidentally ending up in the Mirror Universe over the weekend. An Explorer has to do it all, and do it all well, because of how its mission profile works.
A warship, on the other hand, is tightly focused on exactly one thing: killing other people's warships, as quickly as possible, as efficiently as possible, and with as little risk to itself as is manageable. Everything other than that is frippery.
anyway, for people who have been wondering why I am... let's say, concerned, about Klingon Battlecruisers, this is a D6 next to a Sagarmatha:
The Klingon D6 is a very substantial ship. It is, in point of fact, used to being the Big Fish in this era. This is why I sincerely doubt the assertion that it will be half the connie's mass. I, in point of fact, assume that it is going to substantially oughweigh any ship we can produce for some time.
That's not a D6 that's a damn D7!
Per starshipschematics.net
Subclass Designation Ship Name Translation Source Official
Battle Cruiser D-7 Klolode Destruction Bibliography Yes
Title: Star Trek (Original Series)
----- "Day of the Dove"
Author(s): Gene Roddenberry, Jerome Bixby and Marvin Chomsky
Publication Date: 1968
View Related Ships:
In fairness D6 and the D7 have a fairly similar hulltype IIRC, and are probably around the same size.
The bigger (no pun intended) issue here is that @Mechanis' image has the D6/D7 about twice the length it should be for some reason, which is why it is appearing so crazily big. If you simply Google and look at the results, a variety of sources ([1], [2], [3]) put the length somewhere a bit above two hundred metres. Actually one of the estimates I saw is 228 metres, which would (rather pleasingly) make it almost exactly the same length as the Saga's 227 metre length, making it easy to compare.
I am going to have a bath, but someone in thread should go and redo those comparison images with the D6/D7 and the Saga having the same nose-to-tail length.
That's your mission to complete for when I get back, there will be a shiny Meow rating for whoever manages to do it.
Still about half an hour early to vote, I'm afraid.
darkstarling
Brilliantly Crazed
- Location
- Columbus, Ohio
- Pronouns
- He/Him
[] Stellar Dynamics (+2 Science)
[] Chemistry (+2 Science)
Chemistry is a good thing for a first pass that can get followed up on, has tactical implications, and adds specific capacity
[] Chemistry (+2 Science)
Chemistry is a good thing for a first pass that can get followed up on, has tactical implications, and adds specific capacity
darn it, sorry
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Mechanis
Confirmed Extremely Screwed
- Location
- Absconding with Alacrity
The D6 and D7 are damn near identical, the show used the exact same model for both. the difference is all in her innards and bits too small to be visible on the model.That's not a D6 that's a damn D7!
Per starshipschematics.net
Subclass Designation Ship Name Translation Source Official
Battle Cruiser D-7 Klolode Destruction Bibliography Yes
Title: Star Trek (Original Series)
----- "Day of the Dove"
Author(s): Gene Roddenberry, Jerome Bixby and Marvin Chomsky
Publication Date: 1968
View Related Ships:
She has two decks in the front little pug-saucer bit. It's sized off of that.
they BEEG.
edit: or, in short, that little bit that sticks out the front is the same thickness as a Saga's main saucer (~7 meters). D6/D7s are VERY LARGE SHIPS and anyone saying different is huffing copium about the Klingon Empire.
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[ ] Chemistry (+2 Science)
[ ] Extra Crew Quarters
Wouldn't mind going full science either, but I think the need for better crew conditions on long voyages outweighs. Will go with Chemistry over Stellar Dynamics because it feels more like something that adds new capability to the ship rather than just improving existing capabilities.
[ ] Extra Crew Quarters
Wouldn't mind going full science either, but I think the need for better crew conditions on long voyages outweighs. Will go with Chemistry over Stellar Dynamics because it feels more like something that adds new capability to the ship rather than just improving existing capabilities.
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- Location
- Actually pretty lost
My comment was really referencing the claim in the post you were responding to, since it was being brought up again.
- Location
- alphen aan den rijn
[ ] Extra Crew Quarters
[ ] Cargo Bay (+3 Cargo)
sounds like best option
[ ] Cargo Bay (+3 Cargo)
sounds like best option
Alectai
Speaks Words of Wisdom... On occasion
[X] Stellar Dynamics (+2 Science)
[X] Extra Crew Quarters
I do believe we've designed a very respectable blorbo here. Solid defenses, exceptional agility, likely unrivaled sprint speed, and a fierce armament on top of a fairly comprehensive survey and emergency response suite.
[X] Extra Crew Quarters
I do believe we've designed a very respectable blorbo here. Solid defenses, exceptional agility, likely unrivaled sprint speed, and a fierce armament on top of a fairly comprehensive survey and emergency response suite.
- Location
- Cara Fahd
Just realized that, just by adding Stellar Dynamics, it would result in cramming the same Science and specialties in the Connie as a base Curiosity, +/- 2 Science if the computer core is now default or not. Well, of course with modern equipment, but still.
And the Saladin is just at 9 Science and only specced for dilithium.
Man, just that, along with its range, would make it a decent science ship. Not a Kea, sure, but decent nonetheless.
And the Saladin is just at 9 Science and only specced for dilithium.
Man, just that, along with its range, would make it a decent science ship. Not a Kea, sure, but decent nonetheless.
Not exactly my best work, though I've got to say that even using JPEG this art is really smooth, but I believe this should be about right. Beam for the D7 is 160m so it might be a bit much.
View: https://imgur.com/a/olvOpyf
[X] Stellar Dynamics (+2 Science)
[X] Extra Crew Quarters
[X] Extra Crew Quarters
Endorfinator
Awkwardly Social
- Location
- California
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Hey just want to remind people that we might have 3 years range but I don't think it's confirmed we have 3 years worth of provisions. Let's add some extra cargo so we can get a +3 to engineering and diversify our Connie's portfolio just a tiny bit.
The D6 has never appeared on screen, to the best of my knowledge, even though the D5 has. The values are as follows for the D7, per 'generic official information':
Length: 228m
Beam: 160m
Height: 60m
With DITL giving it an estimated mass of 307,000 tonnes.
[X] Stellar Dynamics (+2 Science)
[X] Chemistry (+2 Science)
[X] Extra Crew Quarters
10 Science is the minimum if we pick one of the 2 Science facilities, synergies can potentially give bonus Science.
The Kea or example which had a base 2 Science score due to the experimental Computer Core (the Archer got a 2nd Computer Core for +2 and got a total of 4 so the base Computer Core is a +2) plus a further 14 from all the facilities should have only had 16 Science but got an extra 3 from synergies.
If we manage to get some synergy going we could squeeze out an extra science or two.
[X] Chemistry (+2 Science)
[X] Extra Crew Quarters
10 Science is the minimum if we pick one of the 2 Science facilities, synergies can potentially give bonus Science.
The Kea or example which had a base 2 Science score due to the experimental Computer Core (the Archer got a 2nd Computer Core for +2 and got a total of 4 so the base Computer Core is a +2) plus a further 14 from all the facilities should have only had 16 Science but got an extra 3 from synergies.
If we manage to get some synergy going we could squeeze out an extra science or two.
That said I'll probably drop one of the Science Facility options to make sure we get Extra Crew Quarters.
I was just going by how thin they looked in the main section, I haven't actually checked what sort of mass they'd work out to be. Looking at it now with the main 'bulk' of the central body being about 70x80 meters and maybe 4 decks thick only gives it ~40kt. The command deck/launcher is at most 5kt. If anything in canon it seems to be a very light ship, relatively speaking. It's not how I visualised it though, and in terms of capability we know it's not totally out of the Constitution's weightclass. Superior Klingon tech doing a decent amount of heavy lifting, I reckon, and definitely not 50kt. Given we see the K'tinga (which seems to be a modernised D7, really) running around in the Dominion War it's basically their Miranda-class, just a half-century early.
Or it's possible their "canon" size in meters is just bullshit, which is frankly likely.
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Mechanis
Confirmed Extremely Screwed
- Location
- Absconding with Alacrity
again.
this is TWO. DECKS. TALL. you can literally see the windows. it is the SAME THICKNESS as the Sagarmatha's main saucer. D6s and D7s are LARGE.