Shields regenerate, that means no dockyard time after battle, armor needs replacing and a weak shield is just not going to cut it so we have to eat the extra cost for the large covariant like we had to eat the extra cost for the thrusters, and now will have to for the torps.
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This.
Frankly I think a one-hit KO, 7-torpedo salvo would be worth the cost, but 5 will do, especially with the maneuverability to repeat the hit a few times in any engagement.
StriderInCosmos
Wanderer in the Worldsea
- Location
- Somewhere in... Terminal Dogma? I think?
Certainly, I didn't intend to paint them as mindless berserkers. As up-gunned as this vessel might be, though, they'll also likely come to find out that it can't be everywhere at once. At that point, the more strategically minded among them will likely start looking at it as a 3D-chess match: where can we strike that these vessels aren't, and what will it take to stand up against one of these vessels in an even fight? They will roll the iron dice with us, of that much I can be certain. The only unknown, for me at least, is how many rolls they deign to take with our new vessel coming up against them.
She also has the maneuverability to split her salvo between ships potentially, so I have less concerns about overkill than I would in a more pondering ship. It is quite likely she can swing her nose and put 2 torpedoes into 3 ships during a salvo if the ships she is fighting are only worth 2 torpedoes each.
darkstarling
Brilliantly Crazed
- Location
- Columbus, Ohio
- Pronouns
- He/Him
For those worried about five year missions? Remember, even the Defiant got sent on science missions sometimes.
We've got an engineering orb and it's already in a fleet support role. Vulture Class remember?
I think it depends on how much bloodwine the Captain that day tbh. They do seem to take a lot of stupid fights when they're the antagonist.
That might be more reflective of their weaker/non-existent naval academy though.
StriderInCosmos
Wanderer in the Worldsea
- Location
- Somewhere in... Terminal Dogma? I think?
They will test this vessel, of that much I'm certain. Whether that ends with them deciding that the cost of facing a single vessel of this class is worth it or not is up to the Klingons. And as much as we talk about deleting D6s in combat and going toe to toe with D7s, we don't really have a complete conception of their industrial capabilities. It may be that due to the more focused, simple nature of their designs that they can pump out enough D6s and 7s to match our Constitution Project ships in a firepower matchup. That's the damndest problem with working with such unknowns.
It should be noted that, canonically, during the twenty or so years they built D7s they pumped out close to 300 of them.
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StriderInCosmos
Wanderer in the Worldsea
- Location
- Somewhere in... Terminal Dogma? I think?
And at that point, it becomes less of a tactical problem (can one Constitution Project ship stand up to one D7? [methinks it can]), and more of a strategic/logistical problem (can all of our Constitution Project ships that we're able to produce, and the rest of the fleet, stand up to all of the vessels, from D7s on down to their little raiders, that they decide to throw at us?). We might resolve, or at least ameliorate, the issue by crash-building most of our ships in a majority of our shipyards, but the fact stands that the numbers game at the strategic level matters, sometimes far beyond the individual conflicts that our ships will prosecute over the course of the war.
- Location
- Outside the Box
- Pronouns
- She/Her
In the abstract, I'd agree with you. However, on an emotional level, I see the firepower to one-shot enemy ships in a salvo of destruction, and I crave it. Without a stronger logical or emotional reason not to, I am more than willing to spend the cost for the bigger explosions.
...no, I am not a Klingon. Honorable battle is for people with insfficient firepower.
- Location
- USA
[ ] Five Torpedo Salvo (Cost 45.5 -> 65) [Second Tranche: 45.5 -> 62
I really like seeing the second Tranche cost as well to make it clearer when we pick a prototype that the cost will go to standard in time for the second tranche. The other benefit is that it will hit mature quicker and also for frigates once it is at standard fitting one rapid launcher on them will be pricey but very space efficient.
I really like seeing the second Tranche cost as well to make it clearer when we pick a prototype that the cost will go to standard in time for the second tranche. The other benefit is that it will hit mature quicker and also for frigates once it is at standard fitting one rapid launcher on them will be pricey but very space efficient.
It can even fight by shooting past enemies and throwing a bunch of photons in their face, then hitting warp before they can turn around and vanishing off into the distance.
Hit and run. Hurt them and fade. Do it again and again until they cannot fight.
If it's tough enough to take a volley mostly unharmed and powerful enough that the enemy cannot then it's a viable strategy.
Sure, but those will likely be sufficiently maneuverable that they need to be bracketed with 3-4 anyway, and if not we always have the option to launch an ordinary 2-to-3 torpedo salvo and save the wear and tear on the rapid launcher.
Also, once the rapid launchers become standard kit, a cheap refit for this ship will be to upgrade all three launchers to rapids. An on-target 9-torpedo salvo will be a mission-kill on basically anything out there in canon prior to 2280.
StriderInCosmos
Wanderer in the Worldsea
- Location
- Somewhere in... Terminal Dogma? I think?
As viable as that tactic will surely be, if the Klingons decide that we're worth the honorable challenge, there will be places where we will need to stand and fight. We might have the maneuver advantage, but the enemy may decide to nullify that by going for the numbers advantage. We will need to be able to stay and fight somewhere, or we will give them (albeit bloody) victories when we give up ground for the sake of preserving firepower. And that will more than likely motivate them to keep going with an offensive fleet that has had far more time to build up compared to our combat equivalence.
The consistent backdrop to the entirely of Star Trek is that the Federation spends like 0.2% of GDP on defense and that means every time it fights a war it's a fucking mess that costs them far too much in destruction and death… and then they turn around and do it again.
20 core member worlds with a post-scarcity standard of living and a few hundred colonies which are still rich by current-day standards should be able to crank out and man 20-40 Constitution-class or local equivalent, a hundred-odd frigates, and a bunch of support vessels and fixed defenses each year without spending more than a percent of GDP to build, maintain, and man the resulting fleet.
- Location
- America
No, the design brief we were given largely tracks with the design brief for the canon Connie. So as long as we have decent range, a workshop for self sufficiency, and some kind of computer core or cargo to synergise with the workshop, will have a decent cruiser and a decent explorer all the same.
Torpedoes also represent an increase to our sustained DPS, and while I'm sure three are enough to crush D6s we need to have good odds versus a D7 to limit the damage in the upcoming war.
I, personally, do not think the new phasers (which are only matching the power of the guns on a D6) are enough to get away with only three standard tubes of torpedoes. I'd bet on four, but that's not an option we've got.
... Also, keep in mind we haven't paid for shields yet. Since we're not going to launch a shieldless ship, we'll be losing less than 15~20% of the fleet. I think we can promise we'll be spending another 12 more on shields minimum.
Good point, I'll add the second tranche to the first option and add the reduced cost for standard Type-3 thrusters as well.
It won't be quite a much less than that. The 13 cost increase represents about 15% extra cost once we add in phasers and shields, or about 13% fewer ships. 6 ships for every 7. I think it's worth it. 1.15 squared is about 1.3, so the ship needs to be at least that much better in firepower and we'll hit that comfortably.
To some extent I would not weight my interpretation of the setting based on like, background figures for how many D7s got built, because it's quite likely that someone did not think this through thoroughly? Rather than this being intended to represent some major power imbalance. The rough view we get of the Federation and Klingons in TOS/TMP is that they're peers.
Also it's not necessarily hard to make up stuff that compensates. If the Klingons built 300 D7s (over probably several decades, not all at once) then it's likely that the Federation built one Morbillion Miranda class ships to compensate. The twelve Constitution class ships may also just represent the first production run for all we now - and the Constitution II could also have led to more ships.
Also it's not necessarily hard to make up stuff that compensates. If the Klingons built 300 D7s (over probably several decades, not all at once) then it's likely that the Federation built one Morbillion Miranda class ships to compensate. The twelve Constitution class ships may also just represent the first production run for all we now - and the Constitution II could also have led to more ships.
Might want to temp threadmark this, because a lot of people have already gotten their votes down in the old format, just ready to fill in.
Like I said, it was over 20ish years. So around 15 or so a year on average.
- Location
- Australia
So first thought, that ship looks amazing. One of my favourite so far. Others have looked charming, or sleek, etc. Absolutely. But this thing just looks -cool-
Second, as a game abstract making phasers do more damage on bigger ships work, but I think at that point I would instead prefer being able to choose our power supply instead.
Does this ship devote five decks? Seven? Ten? Does it cost a standard amount and leave standard room for modules, or have we made a tiny ship with an oversized core with powerful shields, weapons and no room for labs? Is it a large engineering class with minimal power output with purely defensive strength phasors, but lots of room for cargo and engineering?
Because if they are all using the same core, it makes no real sense for big ships to do more - if anything it would do less because the power has to travel further before being used.
Second, as a game abstract making phasers do more damage on bigger ships work, but I think at that point I would instead prefer being able to choose our power supply instead.
Does this ship devote five decks? Seven? Ten? Does it cost a standard amount and leave standard room for modules, or have we made a tiny ship with an oversized core with powerful shields, weapons and no room for labs? Is it a large engineering class with minimal power output with purely defensive strength phasors, but lots of room for cargo and engineering?
Because if they are all using the same core, it makes no real sense for big ships to do more - if anything it would do less because the power has to travel further before being used.
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