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That is absolutely fine. I would like to point out, that bribes are fine and all, but most foreign monarchs elected to the throne also offered in their pacta conventa a lump sum of money (the bigger, the better) in order to reinforce the royal treasury, since money was always lacking. For instance, Henryk Walezy promised to supply 450 000 Złoty to the Polish treasury each year from his own purse and bring French troops to fight the Muscovites with their upkeep covered by himself.
Damn, now I'm trying to figure out where I got the 200k figure for Batory from, and to figure out if that was bribe money or treasury money… Can't find a transcript of his pacta.

edit: I mean for the sake of headache-prevention I think it's just gonna stand as I depicted it, but I'm curious!
 
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Damn, now I'm trying to figure out where I got the 200k figure for Batory from, and to figure out if that was bribe money or treasury money… Can't find a transcript of his pacta.

edit: I mean for the sake of headache-prevention I think it's just gonna stand as I depicted it, but I'm curious!
From what I found, it was a one-time contribution to the Polish treasury to be used in order to pay the troops and strengthen the country's defences.
 
A string of forts guarding the southern border, especially in Ukraine, was a wet dream of the locals since times immemorial. Tatar incursions were by no means pleasant and any deterrent or fortress, that might stop them was always well received. There was just a single problem stopping this from being implemented: money, of course. Like I said, the treasury was empty as a rule of thumb, while the nobility and magnates were rich. :V
"It would nice to have these fortifications, but who will pay for it? I won't."

This sounds very, very familiar to me from conversations about taxes and public services in the modern day. The more things change, the more they stay the same.

For the sake of fun, could you guess how quickly a king or noble would be killed if he seriously proposed a tax on the nobiles?

Also, with this math, adding the Radziwiłł contribution, the Batory bribe is, in fact, matched, or even slightly exceeded. Please go forward knowing this; I may or may not edit the in-character post. Nobody voted to try and get more bribe money anyway, though.
Excellent, so we don't need to feel shy in that front. I read our current choices as being about the kind of narrative we want to set for the election. Commonwealth defense with the fortifications, existing liberties, and the other stuff from our pacta conventa.

I think it's best to have Marianna sell the other nobles of the Commonwealth on the Germans and the opportunities they open for the personally, and have Stanislaw hammer the Commonwealth defense angle personally, focusing on Livonia. I want to focus on Livonia because that is the next most-expected major war - while the Ruthenian fortifications will stave off aggression in that region, we will be better able to focus on Moscow's threat.

[X] We'll be needing some more concrete plans regarding the Military Frontier.

[X] Spread rumors of the glamor and social opportunities brought by a Habsburg candidate.

[X] Take the floor and move them with a speech about the imminent conquest of Livonia.
 
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For the sake of fun, could you guess how quickly a king or noble would be killed if he seriously proposed a tax on the nobiles?
Nah, he wouldn't be killed. His motion would just die on the floor. :V

In practice, the only way for the nobles to agree to tax themselves, was a dire need in a war. Dire need, mind you, not a war itself. Many a war of the Commonwealth ended with a lackluster treaty simply because the Sejm would not provide the money to continue (or to even pay for the wages already owned!). It takes a catastrophe (like the fall of Kamieniec Podolski or Smoleńsk, an army marching on Warsaw) for the nobles to start thinking straight and pass high taxes for the war effort.
 
You know what's upsetting? I'm coming clean, and why I ever got this wrong, I don't know, and it's too late to change, but: her name is Maryna, not Mariana. She would have been raised as Maryna (she really existed, folks! But got married off at, like, 14 OTL) as a proto-Belarusian-speaker, and it's still Maryna/Marina in Polish and seemingly at some point I got turned around and thought that it translated differently. Everybody's life is a lie!

edit: huh, wait, that's weird. that genealogy page says Mariana. But Maryna is a perfectly valid Polish name, too, I thought...
 
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Honestly there's such an interesting dynamic to applying the logic of the Austrian Military Frontier and fortified spiderweb over the Wild Lands, even as still very much a frontier marcher situation the further regulation and penetration of the state of the Commonwealth into to matters of raid and counter-raid will kinda get the ball rolling on the end of the complete anarchy of both sides of the nominal border often barely listening to the Crimean khan and the magnates of Ruthenia, let alone Krakow and Vilno or Konstantiniyye. Like all the tiny federal cavalry fortlets and outposts of unorganized and organized territories and early states gradually making room for state militia too and engineering battalions or whatever, the whole bit of the death of the Old West.
 
In practice, the only way for the nobles to agree to tax themselves, was a dire need in a war. Dire need, mind you, not a war itself. Many a war of the Commonwealth ended with a lackluster treaty simply because the Sejm would not provide the money to continue (or to even pay for the wages already owned!). It takes a catastrophe (like the fall of Kamieniec Podolski or Smoleńsk, an army marching on Warsaw) for the nobles to start thinking straight and pass high taxes for the war effort.
TBF this issue plagued a lot of constitutional monarchies at the time, it crippled the Hungarians as they tore apart the Black Army due to not wanting to spend funds on it, and the English lost the Hundred Years War partly because of parliament not wanting to open its purse.

Having said that, we have the Livonian war coming up, I'm sure we can win some major success there, and after that we should hopefully avoid most wars except for raids and counter raids until the Turks rock up.
 
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Scheduled vote count started by Rolman on Aug 24, 2024 at 7:12 PM, finished with 33 posts and 13 votes.
 
XXXIII. October 16-October 22, 1575. Warszawa, Polish Crownlands.
To cheers and acclaim do you appear once more in the Sejm camp, crutches sinking into the mud, helped at the shoulders by Marszowski and another lieutenant. You smile graciously at the assembled nobles Crossing themselves and waving caps for Ajax, the Tatar-slayer, the maimed hero. Even men you recognize as rivals – pure Piasts or executionists – hail you, and you're showered with blessings and congratulations regarding your miraculous survival. All you do is thank them; you'll let others do the talking, and allow yourself to be an attraction. Specifically, a reminder to the Ruthenians that their bond with Lithuania was only recently terminated six years ago at the Union of Lublin, and that the men of the Grand Duchy are willing to kill and die for their erstwhile countrymen. And all this praise makes your head buzz, your heart swell – changed forever, yet finally, truly, respected. Almost makes me forget I'm an utter cripple! You frown briefly.

Before you go and take your back-bench seat at the Senat, you hobble your way over to the Baron von Dietrichstein's pavilion tent. You find him at a desk within, surrounded by his be-ruffed, trunk-hosed compatriots. "Lord Baron!" you hail him. "May I speak to you for a moment?"

"Well, of course, Your Serene Highness," he says, clearly trying to conceal surprise at your appearance. "Please, tell me what for?" He lifts a plaintive hand.

"I wanted to discuss some of the specifics of the concept of the Military Frontier, so that my peers will better understand what it is His Royal Highness the Archduke promises to do," you say. "Assuredly, everyone is overjoyed at the prospect, but… Paying for it? Staffing it?"

"Of course, Your Serene Highness," he nods, clasping his hands together and placing them to his chin. "The way things work in Hungary-Croatia is that certain soldiers are selected, regardless of faith or patrimony, and dealt land grants in exchange for staffing the forts and watchtowers," he explains, "that way, they'll protect their own villages. They're led by captains who also serve as mayors and governors. That way, we save a bit of money," he adds with a smile. "As for construction, hiring the engineers and architects – the soldiers can double as laborers – someone would have to pay for it. I have dispatched a request to His Imperial Majesty requesting funds for that and what will become a war effort, to be promised officially within the Archduke's proposed pacta."

"That's good, that's very good," you say, near-relieved. "But I'm not sure how the people would take to… colonists. Though I'm sure the presence of some Germans would be permissible." You hum. An idea! "We possess many destitute or landless nobles here within the Polish Crownlands – most of whom keep arms, perhaps a horse, and have some experience in battle. But they're unruly."

"Whatever Your Serene Highness thinks, we are willing to defer to it," replies the Baron.

Hmm, alright. Outside colonists: professional soldiers, reliable, but foreigners – Germans? Hungarians? Bohemians? Wallachians? – how would that gel? And what if they desire nobility? Who rules them? The local lords, a sort of captaincy system like they're Zaporozhians? Put them under one of the preexisting Crown Hetmans?

On the other hand, providing incentives to the gołota to pack their things and head south would staff the forts with half-soldier rabble, admittedly, but also keep things much more simple. It also could ingratiate the Habsburg faction to opportunistic lordlings. However, a new class of marcher lords would surely arise, and make their presence known at elections – neither Polish nor Ruthenian, they could upset the balance of power at Sejms such as these.

You finally decide to say:

[] "I recommend the settlement of outsiders, as commoners under one of the Crown Hetmans chosen by royal appointment."

This could make one Mikołaj Sieniawski – an important Podolian magnate – very happy or very jealous: he took up the defense of Ruthenia after your departure with great success for the remaining few months of the raiding season, and he's been at that kind of work for decades. The only reason he didn't join you at an earlier date was due to the paralysis of the quarter army. He's an obvious choice for a captaincy.

[] "Perhaps it would be best to resettle some of our Masovians, or lowly lords in general."

Egalitarian and generous, just the way the szlachta like. However, there would assuredly be some disorder in the borderlands, and the destitute lords would likely prove to be subpar – though not fully incompetent – fighters.

[] "This is a matter best put to a vote before the Sejm. We should ask them with haste."

Putting it to a vote is the safe thing to do. It also may have a mildly-deflecting effect on the accusation of looming Habsburg absolutism.

[] "This is a matter best put to a vote before Sejm upon the election of His Royal Highness. You should promise them such, lord Baron."

Keep the promises vague and hopeful, and let it be sorted out when the Archduke would (hopefully) sit the throne. Anything more is a liability.

[] write-in.

Framed as a verbal statement.

Meanwhile the Senat and Sejm meetings pass over the course of a near-week, yielding no surprises: the former supports the Habsburgs, and the latter are bitterly divided along the lines of class and country. Accusations are beginning to be leveled at the interference of the Papal Nuncio, Vincenzo Lauro, in favor of the Habsburgs. People are claiming that there's a plot for Archbishop Uchański to unilaterally declare the Archduke the victor. Meanwhile, the promises of spoils for the royal treasury and lords' pockets alike from the Habsburg camp ameliorate some of the worst fears. As of the 22nd of October, sixteen days remain until the start of the election Sejm proper. You keep a tight lip, but make sure to spend quality time with the sons of Konstanty Wasyl Ostrogski, those recent comrades of yours, to remind them of what you've given up in the defense of their homeland.

There's always time to arrange a meeting, though. Will you do so?

[] No, keep quiet. Sit back and watch, biding your time.

Keep an ear to the wall – or let people come to *you.*

[] Arrange a meeting with Jan Zamoyski.

Try to arrange contingencies for the victory of either side, to ensure a peaceful transfer of power. Tempers are running high, after all.

[] Introduce yourself to the sole pro-Batory Bishop, Stanisław Karnkowski.

What's the matter with him? We need the entirety of the Holy Church to back the Habsburgs – it would be a major increase to the legitimacy of their claim before God and the realm.

[] Conference discreetly with Archbishop Jakub Uchański.

See if this rumor about him and the Nuncio is true.

[] Hold a summit with some of the striver-families: the remnants of the mighty Tarnowscy, the Ruthenian Wiśniowieccy, Hetman Mikołaj Sieniawski, etc.

Remind them of the promises, the opportunities, the ease of manipulating the young Archduke: Mariana's web-weaving has perhaps planted the seeds.

[] write-in.

Do some research.

You retire to your quarters after a long and boring day down in the camp, nursing your pained stump by sipping gorzała; you catch a nice buzz. Mariana appears at your chamber door for her usual visit, except you don't let her approach your bedside: you scramble out of bed and hoist yourself up with your crutches – she stands watching, bemused – and you eagerly click-clack over to her. She turns her face and taps on her cheek; you plant a kiss loyally. "I deserve that because I've been doing some very good work," she says. "I've told many of the ladies – and some of the men, too – all about the Fugger banks and their Tyrol mines, the bestowment of Imperial titles as enjoyed by your father and his cousin and the Counts Chodkiewicz…"

"How do you know these things?"

She almost looks offended. "Because I read, Stanisław. I grew up with my nose in a book, you know," she says. "When your father's eighty-something he can't really tell you not to – and he's amassed quite an emporium over the years." They do call old Pawel "Nestor." Born in the last century!

You shake your head, slightly embarrassed by your underestimation. "Right, of course, I almost forgot that you know Latin…"

Mariana puts her hands on her hips and makes a face. "I'll have my vengeance: I'm about to make you very jealous. And angry!"

"Oh, no…"

"There's this pig of a man who wants me. Probably fifty, fifty-five, some Tworowski retainer, you wouldn't know him." Your stomach drops, while your chest begins to fire up. "Utter lech, the way he looks at me," she says, motioning to her breasts, her waist, her hips. "Of course, I find him repulsive. But I suppose since I'm a little mannish," she says, unashamed, "he mistook my confidence for flirtation. This was at the dance last night, the one you were too tired for."

You can feel your face getting red. Mariana chuckles. "So, I'm taking a walk without my ladies around dusk outside the Curia Maior, and guess what? The fellow walks up from behind, touches my back, and says: 'have you ever had an old bull, little girl?'"

"What?!" you roar. "What's his name? I'll kill him, I'll throw my glove down and challenge him!" you say, completely burning. You remember dimly that you're down a leg. "Or, or– I'll shoot him! Or I'll get Marszowski to stick him like swine and–"

She moves in close, hot breath on your face, grabbing the collar of your żupan. "Oh, so you'll kill for me, then?" she asks, voice honeyed. "Become a murderer? An infamis? That's really something."

No! No! Do not let her seduce you, not now! "Of course I'd– my honor! Your honor! MY wife!" You're almost yelling.

She smiles devilishly. "Well, what if I told you I made it all up?"

You make a wide variety of faces in a very short period of time. You start lightly smacking her leg with your crutch, forcing her to retreat, laughing involuntarily. "Not funny! That is not funny!"

She's cackling. "Oh, my God! May He forgive me for my lies, but – wow!"

You're tripping over words, but finally manage to say: "scare me! Fool me! Infuriate me!"

"You're handsome when you're angry, hussar!" she says, stifling further laughter. "You're fierce when you need to be!"

"Not funny! Not funny! Delilah!"

"Samson!"

"Delilah!"

"Samson!"

"So angry, so angry!" she says, closing the distance once more. "For me." Suddenly, you're downright attacking each other, biting lips and crossing tongues and growling with desire. She shoves you onto the bed, sending your crutches clattering, and climbs atop you.

Whew! You lay in bed, slightly sweaty, feeling fine (but still a pinch angry), Mariana curled up around you to your left and – oh, oh! You nearly forgot: she'll be twenty-one on the 22nd. Despite your wounded pride at the moment, you've never given her a proper gift before, not counting paying for her dresses and other customary things. It's a little too late to get her something bespoke, but you still want to show your affection. Something respectful, something that tells her you know of her strength – that she's a cut above the average woman…

[] An imported, Italian cameo necklace of Artemis, set in gold.

She *does* enjoy the outdoors. She's a bit of a huntress metaphorically speaking, too.

[] A gilded Orthodox icon of her favored Saint, Valentine.

She's not the most religious, that sweet, evil thing – but she does fear God at the end of the day. Leave it to a flirt like her to pick the Saint of love and matrimony!

[] A fine black hussar's horse – half-native and and the rest Turkish-Tatar.

A speedy and strong steed for a quick-witted, powerful young lady.

[] A set of Austrian-inspired dresses.

For when we win, of course. They compliment her trim-yet-shapely figure very well, and she's been reusing the one Western dress she owns. You reckon she'd look very pretty in a ruff and feathered cap – her face is angular enough for it.

[] write-in.


Give your love something special.
 
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[X] "This is a matter best put to a vote before the Sejm. We should ask them with haste."

Both options have interesting possible outcomes and it can't hurt to reassure people that Maciej won't trample on the Liberty.

[X] Arrange a meeting with Jan Zamoyski.

We've heard rumors of civil war in this quest in the past. A peaceful transfer of power would help to nip that in the bud.

[X] A fine black hussar's horse – half-native and and the rest Turkish-Tatar.

Mariana seems like the type who likes practical things.
 
All the options are interesting and have trade offs. I'd like to have it be a vote with our first proposal being to resettle our lowly lords and masovians. But that isn't an option, so I'll just go with the vote. It's the proper protocol of things, and without a doubt it'll show that the pro-habsburgian camp will honor the democratic processes of the commonwealth by allowing the Sjem a word in it and how it's done.

[X] "This is a matter best put to a vote before the Sejm. We should ask them with haste."

The second vote is also interesting... I'm more in favor of getting more votes, but a meeting with Zamoyski will also be crucial in these things. If the transfer of power isn't peaceful, then the whole election will be more damning and damaging than not. Especially in light of Crimean Raids and looming war with Muscovy. Then again, another argument could be made that an overwhelming victory in the election could be it's own way of deterring revolt, since the Sjem and Senat are made up of the nobles and magnates who'll be raising the armies and using the troops to fight if the elections went south.

Also, the meeting with Zamoyski was always going to happen at some point, shape or form. It's the last minute that a lot of shit happens really fast based on reading the direction of the political winds. Concessions and deals struck and so on. I believe we've got some of the cards or balls in our court now. I'm not sure we've got a winning hand, but we shall see.

Overall, really tough choice to make... But I'm gonna go with getting more votes. As Zamoyski is likely going to do himself to sure up the support for Bathory.

[X] Hold a summit with some of the striver-families: the remnants of the mighty Tarnowscy, the Ruthenian Wiśniowieccy, Hetman Mikołaj Sieniawski, etc.

Finally! The gift for our Marianna. No major political stresses, just spoiling our wife and being a good husband. I propose the fine piece of Artemis inspired jewelry. I feel it's the most appropriate.

[X] An imported, Italian cameo necklace of Artemis, set in gold.
 
[] "I recommend the settlement of outsiders, as commoners under one of the Crown Hetmen chosen by royal appointment."
I have to put down this idea right off the bat.

There is only one social class in the whole Commonwealth, that can own land outside of a city/town and that's the nobility. The nobles will never let go of this privilege, therefore the only people allowed to be colonists under the current law will be other nobles (domestic ones, ennobled commoners or naturalized foreign nobles). Given this choice, the only realistic one is the poor gołota, since massive nobilitations or naturalizations are off the table.

Unless they will be settled in towns with charters without owning any land outside said towns, then it's at least somewhat possible.

By the way, it's Hetman, not Hetmen ( Pl. Hetmans).
 
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[X] "This is a matter best put to a vote before the Sejm. We should ask them with haste."
One of the easiest bribes in the world is to give people the chance to take up a lot of air time and feel important
Not only will this block attacks about absolutism, but it will also mean that everyone in the lead up to the election will be spending a lot of time talking about our candidates plan and the perks he will bring with his election.

[X] No, keep quiet. Sit back and watch, biding your time.
We have other people on the team doing active maneuvering and shoulder rubbing. There's a strength is making people come to you that's we've positioned ourself to try and use.

[X] An imported, Italian cameo necklace of Artemis, set in gold.

I just like the idea. Something from Italy feels right for our renaissance prince.
 
[X] "This is a matter best put to a vote before the Sejm. We should ask them with haste."

[X] No, keep quiet. Sit back and watch, biding your time.

[X] An imported, Italian cameo necklace of Artemis, set in gold.
 
[X] "This is a matter best put to a vote before the Sejm. We should ask them with haste."

[X] No, keep quiet. Sit back and watch, biding your time.

[X] An imported, Italian cameo necklace of Artemis, set in gold.

[X] Write-In: All of the above, we love our Delilah
I don't want to set a standard that we can't maintain. So many wonderful gifts will be expensive at the end of the day.
 
[X] "This is a matter best put to a vote before the Sejm. We should ask them with haste."
[X] Arrange a meeting with Jan Zamoyski.
[X] A fine black hussar's horse – half-native and and the rest Turkish-Tatar.
 
[X] "This is a matter best put to a vote before the Sejm. We should ask them with haste."
[X] Arrange a meeting with Jan Zamoyski.
[X] A set of Austrian-inspired dresses.

The first shows the continued wiling deference of the Habsburg monarch to the new democratic traditions and culture of the Commonwealth.

The second is what we did in the first election, and it's a good parallel for us with our political rival, and helps prevent any risk of a civil war, which occurred after both elections Jan was involved in IOTL.

The third? The Austrian dresses are something she said she liked and Stanislaw very much liked himself. Remember, any chance to increase the odds of a baby.
 
[X] "This is a matter best put to a vote before the Sejm. We should ask them with haste."

[X] A fine black hussar's horse – half-native and and the rest Turkish-Tatar.
[X] A set of Austrian-inspired dresses.
 
I'm gonna let the vote ride til late today or early tomorrow depending on activity levels! Like if we hit 14 or 15 votes I'll close 'er down sooner rather than later
 
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