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He's not a real person guys!
Yeah but Sertorius is, normally I'm not one to go after someone for fucking up a vote. Normally I'll say 'we shouldn't have done that' or 'we fucked up' and leave it at one post.

But I spent three pages warning people, literally repeatedly begged, was right, and now he's making some of the worst excuses I've ever seen to try and not have to own up to the fact he thought that actions didn't have consequences.

It leaves a bitter taste in your mouth when someone feeds you crap and uses eloquence to desperately try and convince you it's food.
 
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i think its very different to be like this how this typically worked, information we'd reasonably have IC, than to explicitly planning around future events.
If rolman wanted us to see the future we would have stayed in prague and done tarot cards or smth.
 
i think its very different to be like this how this typically worked, information we'd reasonably have IC, than to explicitly planning around future events.
If rolman wanted us to see the future we would have stayed in prague and done tarot cards or smth.
It's not even about seeing the future, I, and others, explicitly stated the risks and were proven right. Alternatives were even offered such as using the money.

And yeah, people have posted meta knowledge and knowledge of the future that we wouldn't have IC on here and it's affected decisions, there's no shame in it, but the fact is, it's been done, repeatedly, so there's no use claiming it didn't happen either or that it shouldn't be used for decision making when it's already been done.
 
Yeah but Sertorius is, normally I'm not one to go after someone for fucking up a vote. Normally I'll say 'we shouldn't have done that' or 'we fucked up' and leave it at one post.

But I spent three pages warning people, literally repeatedly begged, was right, and now he's making some of the worst excuses I've ever seen to try and not have to own up to the fact he thought that actions didn't have consequences.

It leaves a bitter taste in your mouth when someone feeds you crap and uses eloquence to desperately try and convince you it's food.
Alright, firstly, once more, it's a fictional character and nobody deserves an ad hominem over a fictional character. and this is coming from someone who's having phantom leg pain he's so attached to his MC.

Secondly, operating with period knowledge — which I always prefer to meta as a QM — a young hotshot like Stanisław absolutely could have tried to shrug it off and power through in a fit of medical ignorance and Sarmatian machismo. I wouldn't have had it be an option if I felt it wasn't believable. And I never guaranteed a positive outcome in any event — it's 1575, and if you didn't have plot armor you'd have been dead in September — so I say: why worry about something that never happened?

We are all here to have fun and enjoy what I hope is a compelling story. I am genuinely honored that you care this much; there is not an ounce of sarcasm in that, nor do I mean for it to sound patronizing. It means I've done well. But it's the premodern, bad things happen to good people, and our MC's life is far from over.

I know it's a grim setting, but as I believe in our modern world today: love and hope always wins. And our dear Stanisław is surrounded by people who care — including you all, the angels of Heaven!
 
So basically you decided we needed to risk death and get crippled because you thought it'd be fun. Don't dress it up in crap about sarmitism and macho culture, we were offered an out, even other men in the room were shocked we'd try and go, there was no indication we'd suffer a reputation hit.

In the end it was your ego, you didn't see this coming, otherwise you would've said so or replied to the many many many times I warned everyone.

You can dress it up how you like 'I wont use otl knowledge' when you openly use metaknowledge about Tartar tactics and counter-tactics in our strategy turns among other times you've basically dumped meta-info into the thread, 'I was roleplaying' when you didn't acknowledge the actual risks until after it became clear I was right and you never used that excuse until, again, after it became clear you fucked up, 'it's macho culture' when we have literally seen other people look at us like we're crazy for doing what we did. It's not historical macho culture.

It's your ego.
Yeah but Sertorius is, normally I'm not one to go after someone for fucking up a vote.

But I spent three pages warning people, literally repeatedly begged, was right, and now he's making some of the worst excuses I've ever seen to try and not have to own up to the fact he thought that actions didn't have consequences.

It leaves a bitter taste in your mouth when someone feeds you crap and uses eloquence to desperately try and convince you it's food.
Have a cookie, man.

You take this way too seriously. I would propose the same vote over and over again, because I liked it and I do not regret it. Just as you liked another. You are literally accusing me of rigging the whole voting process like I've decided the whole thing. No, people voted for that and the majority decided. To say otherwise is downright insulting.

Tatar tactics were well known to the majority of the people in our camp that fought them, as well as the way to counter them. I've been sharing my poor knowledge of the Commonwealth and its people pro publico bono, as well as at the QMs request, so that the reader would have some context and appreciate the Quest more (and to correct a few mishaps here and there :p). To say I wasn't aware of the risks... well, let's just say that I was a bit surprised by the sudden downward spiral, but it hindsight, I would vote the same.

In other words, I regret nothing and you shouldn't as well.
 
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a young hotshot like Stanisław absolutely could have tried to shrug it off and power through in a fit of medical ignorance and Sarmatian machismo. I wouldn't have had it be an option if I felt it wasn't believable
I never said it wasn't believable, I just said it wasn't necessary like Sertorius has tried to imply.
Have a cookie, man.

You take this way too seriously. I would propose the same vote over and over again, because I liked it and I do not regret it. Just as you liked another. You are literally accusing me of rigging the whole voting process like I've decided the whole thing. No, people voted for that and the majority decided. To say otherwise is downright insulting.

Tatar tactics were well known to the majority of the people in our camp that fought them, as well as the way to counter them. I've been sharing my poor knowledge of the Commonwealth and its people pro publico bono, as well as at the QMs request, so the the reader would have some context and appreciate the Quest more (and to correct a few mishaps here and there :p). To say I wasn't aware if the risks... well, let's just say that I was a bit surprised by the sudden downward spiral, but it hindsight, I would vote the same.

In other words, I regret nothing and you shouldn't as well.
I'm not accusing you of rigging anything, I'm accusing you of voting for the bad option, refusing to admit it's the bad option and then making excuses for why it wasn't the blatantly bad choice. A bad option that only won by one vote too.

And if you were surprised by this? I would ask
'didn't you read any of the discussion of the actual vote?'. Multiple people pointed out how bad the disease was, Sepsis was outright deduced rapidly.

If you don't regret the MC being crippled when alternatives that could've succeeded exist? I don't know what to say to that.
 
I never said it wasn't believable, I just said it wasn't necessary like Sertorius has tried to imply.

I'm not accusing you of rigging anything, I'm accusing you of voting for the bad option, refusing to admit it's the bad option and then making excuses for why it wasn't the blatantly bad choice. A bad option that only won by one vote too.

And if you were surprised by this? I would ask
'didn't you read any of the discussion of the actual vote?'. Multiple people pointed out how bad the disease was, Sepsis was outright deduced rapidly.

If you don't regret the MC being crippled when alternatives that could've succeeded exist? I don't know what to say to that.
I was of the 'rest and don't aggravate the wound' faction, just like you, and I am very unhappy with the outcome, just like you. But our group voted as it did, so here we are. All that's left is to make the best of it. Picking fights with other players won't help anything. Let us see what the next update brings.

I know it's a grim setting, but as I believe in our modern world today: love and hope always wins. And our dear Stanisław is surrounded by people who care — including you all, the angels of Heaven!
Hah! I was an angel at one point, I suppose, but the Devil offers better medical insurance and Heaven can't beat that. What can you do?
 
I never said it wasn't believable, I just said it wasn't necessary like Sertorius has tried to imply.

I'm not accusing you of rigging anything, I'm accusing you of voting for the bad option, refusing to admit it's the bad option and then making excuses for why it wasn't the blatantly bad choice. A bad option that only won by one vote too.

And if you were surprised by this? I would ask
'didn't you read any of the discussion of the actual vote?'. Multiple people pointed out how bad the disease was, Sepsis was outright deduced rapidly.

If you don't regret the MC being crippled when alternatives that could've succeeded exist? I don't know what to say to that.
Ugh.

Look, the outcome may seem to be bad, but it is far from the worst I've seen. There is an old saying, that a man learns only after making the wrong choice. Could we have predicted what will happen? Probably. Was there a political need? Yes. Did we vote for said need, outweighing potential health problems? Yes. Was it in-character with the mentality of the time? Yes. Did people die or their condition worsen due to them having done so? Of course. In other words, whatever would happen, it was well within what I would consider acceptable.

Let me ask you a different question. Was this state avoidable? I believe not. Should Stanisław decide to stay in bed his condition would have probably been the same, since he didn't exert himself that much. Instead of sitting in the Senate, he would have become weak while writing a letter and sipping beer. At least we won some political influence by appearing in person.

I think, that we would have been in this place no matter the choice.
 
Could we have predicted what will happen?
We did. Multiple people did. I stated it, repeatedly for instance, we even figured out the infection itself outright
Was there a political need?
No. We could've used the bribes to try and get the ball rolling
Did we vote for said need, outweighing potential health problems?
By one vote after the vote was ended early
Was it in-character with the mentality of the time?
Somewhat, at a stretch, it's possible not definitively IC, no one, no one, would've had a bad opinion about us not showing up, people were actually shocked we were going to try.
Did people die or their condition worsen due to them having done so?
Name the people who died from attending Polish Senat meetings due to wounds then.
Was this state avoidable?
Abso-fuckin-lutely. And to say no to this is wilful blindness
hould Stanisław decide to stay in bed his condition would have probably been the same
So the QM set a trap we couldn't win no matter what? The choice we made would've had no impact? Basically you're trying to say we would've lost the leg anyway?

That's just insulting to the QM and any questor here.

You are, once again, trying to hide the crap you are feeding everyone behind eloquence.

If you want to stop the conversation, I stopped posting already, so stop, all you've done with this is basically say 'I'm right because the QM was clearly going to cripple us anyway, also I didn't read any of the discussion during the vote'. You've not improved my opinion of your response over this.
 
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I mean its entirely possible to take the less risky decision and still have things go badly. This very much could have been fatal
Bedrest would help, but it is by no means a panacea
and while I disagreed with placing the priority of attending vs resting there was a legitimate arguement to be made for the politics of it.
If it didn't make in charachter sense it wouldn't have been offered.
We don't even know how bad things are yet, if they are bad well Stan's life isn't over and we'll move on. Life has ups and downs.
Rolman maybe moved too fast but he was excited and I'm happy that he's been excited enough to move the pace so quickly.
I understand the passion and frustration but I think everyone would be well served to take a moment and a breath
 
So the QM set a trap we couldn't win no matter what? The choice we made would've had no impact? Basically you're trying to say we would've lost the leg anyway?

That's just insulting to the QM and any questor here.
Sorry, but we simply won't see eye to eye, since I disagree with basically everything you said above.

I'm ending this right here and remind everyone, that so far we haven't lost a leg.

Vivat Rzeczpospolita!
 
Sorry for my unnecessary opinion. I didn't even vote, I just read the quest periodically.

But if I knew that the hero had a chance to lose a leg, I would have voted for him. This is a unique situation for SV quests, a one-legged hero. It would be interesting to read about it.😎
 
The past is the past and while I'm as unhappy with the outcome as anyone, either pointing or deflecting blame over it doesn't change the outcome. Maybe in the future some people will be persuaded to caution more easily because of all this instead of voting for maximum risk on principle, but for now we've just got to roll with the circumstances we find ourselves in.
 
Actually, surprisingly, if you read the alternate universe in Apocrypha, that would've gone pretty well and allowed us to make demands more directly
Cuz I LITERALLY picked a random Giray and it turned out to be the firstborn's firstborn I was like shit we'll roll with it. I was fully ready for it to be a major blunder til I found that out
 
And remember to vote! Margin's pretty good right now but I don't wanna leave folks behind! Buuuuuuuuuut you know me. 12 hour window I wanna get this up.
 
XXX-III. October 5, 1575. Warszawa, Polish Crownlands.
You stare back; you just look at her. That's a ceiling around her, not a halo, or maybe just a window? She is the most beautiful woman you have ever seen, the first woman you have ever seen, ever noticed, ever felt a thing for. Those brown eyes, so large and like a deer's as much as a fox's, so capable of turning into daggers or poppies or just a woman's eyes; they smile when she does, they turn stormy with her angry words, they droop and wilt with her tears. Her lips. Full, full lips, warm lips, lips that never quiver no matter what it could have been you put her through, hiding white and straight teeth and a soft tongue you've felt with your own. And there's that little mole on her left cheek, like a shade through her thin dusting of powder, revealed further by the streaks flowing down from her below her eyes. Your bleary mind begins to put it together: she's been crying. Yes, you remember her – how can you forget? She has curled the hair around her ears.

"Don't look down yet," she says, as you feel cloth being drawn over your body. Mariana looks over her shoulder. "Jesus Christ be praised, he just blinked." She turns back to face you. "Stanisław, can you hear me?"

"Yes. You're Mariana."

She exhales with a smile, something that's almost a laugh. "I am."

"Who were you talking to?"

She moves aside, and you begin to blink rapidly as you lift your head up effortfully. You begin to settle into your waking body, so sapped of the boundless strength you felt on the battlefield, wielding the Archangel's sword to save a woman you didn't realize you loved until that moment. Your head is light, your vision nearing a kind of greyscale, you feel hot in the face but cold in the body. That taste in your mouth is vinegar and strong spirits. Your eyes sting, and your right leg hurts as ever.

It's very, very bright, but you force the silhouettes before you to turn into people despite your eyes. You keep blinking; there's Sir Marszowski, and there's the German physician beside his surgeon, both men wearing splotched aprons with dyed hands – is it… blood? – and there's a priest. They all look a little shocked.

"Their Serene Highnesses, your brothers and father, will be here tomorrow, lord prince," says Marszowski, looking much more sickly than he did in the dream, his face scabbed-up and gums dark red. "They were running a bit late from Wilno. A bridge collapse, I'm told. They were already in a great hurry."

"For what?"

"For the Convocation, Your Serene Highness."

It floods back into your mind. This world, the world you're living in, where you are and what you were here to do. "This is Warszawa. There's an election on." Everyone nods. You turn your attention to your wife. "Why are you so made up?"

Her eyes shift around, looking to the men in the room, then to the wall, then to you. "Well, I… I was told to wait outside – I just wanted to look my best – ah…"

"Her Serene Highness insisted she be allowed to watch the procedure," says the physician.

"I wanted to look good so that you'd either wake up to it or see it as you went," she says.

"I don't understand." You remember being on a litter. They were taking you through the streets, but you couldn't see anything, only listen. "I fainted, yes?" They nod. "But then I awoke. They were taking me out of the Sejm camp, and then I was having the most marvelous dream, the Heavenly Host came down and–"

The priest makes the Cross.

"Forgive me, Your Serene Highness," says the medicus, pinching the bridge of his nose, "but can you remember yesterday at all?"

"Yesterday? Why, certainly," you say. " I was laid up here," you gesture around at the bed in which you lie. "You were bloodletting me in preparation for the surgery." Looks are exchanged among all.

"That was not yesterday. That was three days ago."

"What?"

"Yes. It is the Fifth of October," says the physician. His surgeon looks you up and down blankly. "Your Serene Highness, you spent all of yesterday and most of the day before in a daze, thrashing around in a deep sleep. You would open your eyes on occasion – call out – but you were delirious, speaking nonsense."

"And in tongues," says the priest, shooting the man of science a look. "Extreme Unction was issued both yesterday and today, Your Serene Highness. You are absolved, for now."

You weakly Cross yourself at his final words, before knitting your brow. "Extreme Unction? Twice?"

"We weren't sure if you were going to awaken yesterday, lord prince," says Marszowski. "The medicus here said your fever was peaking, that your urine tasted of death."

"And indeed it did – but," the physician smiles. "Here you are."

What about..? "Why was Extreme Unction given to me the second time?" you ask.

Everyone in the room twitches, scratches their head, crosses their arms. Mariana puts a hand to her chin and stares at the floor, as if deep in thought. Her shoulders rise and fall under her padded dress. She begins to fiddle with the cross she's wearing. Marszowski sucks in his lips.

The physician wordlessly draws down your blanket. Your right thigh goes on for about eight inches and then terminates. There just isn't anything there anymore. A ligature of horsehair is tied tightly above a plaster cast, round and blunted at the end. You stare at it and try to comprehend. You know what you're looking at, but you're not seeing it.

"Yesterday, the rot was spreading down to the knee and beyond," he explains. "It would turn upwards next, into Your Serene Highness' entrails and stomach, then the lungs, then the heart, and then death would come. A decision was made."

You don't answer him. "That was this morning. We pray that the fever will recede because of this. It was a clean amputation, Your Serene Highness."

"Very little blood was lost, relatively speaking," says the surgeon, who smiles at you.

You look at him, bewildered. Your mind is utterly empty. What is happening? Where is your leg? "Amputation…" You lean back so that all you can see is the ceiling. Your ears thud and ring. There's been too much ringing these days, too much gunfire and fear and illness. "I'm ruined," you say.

Mariana lets out a dry sob, and then clears her throat. She kneels down beside you, lifts a compress off your forehead that you only now register, and begins stroking your hair. She's inches away from your face, wearing a grimace, jaw tight. The room is silent. You hear someone rifling through what must be a bag, metal and leather shifting.

"God is with you," mutters the priest. He speaks a little louder. "Twice to the brink, twice to Unction, and He kept you. I have never seen such grace in my life."

"He saved you," says the physician. "He has restored you to life, for now. And man can restore you, too." You wipe your eyes. "Your Serene Highness recalls the physician Paré from your time in France?"

"Little good he did," you say, details of the surgery returning. "What am I to–"

"Look, Your Serene Highness."

You truly do not want to, but you groan as you sit up once more. The physician is holding an open book before you, on the right-hand page a numbered and lettered schema. It is complex and full of lines and circles and cylinders, like a clock or something, you don't know. On the left is a knight's greave. "This is Seigneur Paré's design for a false leg. It possesses a hinge at the knee that will allow Your Serene Highness to do nearly everything short of running: sitting in a saddle, kneeling for prayer – I have heard of soldiers walking up to ten French leagues in a day with these devices."

"We've already copied down the plan and sent a messenger to Kraków with a fat purse, looking for carpenters and smiths and tinkerers and those sorts," says Marszowski, mustering up a smile. "You'll be walking again in no time."

"I'm still ill," you say flatly. "This fever may take me."

"Don't say that," says Mariana into your ear, breath on your cheek. "You were fighting in your sleep. You're a hussar."

"Ajax Lithuaniensis," adds Marszowski, placing his hands on his hips. He's never been so proud. "Everyone's talking about you at the Sejm camp – you're a hero."

"I'm no hero. I did what was necessary."

"And not only did you succeed in doing so, but you did it without pissing yourself," laughs Marszowski. "That's a hero."

"I'm an invalid now," you say, voice cracking. "A cripple."

Mariana shushes you gently. "Enough of that, enough of that."

"God has seen it fit that you live," cautions the priest. "It is best to focus on that. Pain is a sign of survival."

"Perhaps," you reply. It's good that there's a man of God here.

"We shall do our utmost to stem the fever, Your Serene Highness," says the physician. "Because of your weakened state, we cannot bleed you for some time, but we will continue with the regimen of protective odors, good oils and powders of herbs," he explains. "We shall see your diet committed to rebalancing the humors in the direction of the phlegmatic-melancholic."

These words mean nothing. These words will not bring back your leg. You will never be whole again. Let the fever take you, forget all of this… Under the plaster, whatever is there is throbbing with pain.

"Is there anymore drink?" you ask. "I want gorzała." The bottle is quickly produced for you; you swig from it greedily. Ambrosia, manna, burning calm. Mariana remains stooped by your side.

You wipe your lip and say:

[] "Let me be. All of you."

[] "I'd like to try sleeping now."

[] "Leave me with my wife, sirs."

[] "God, I'm starving."

[] "Where are my letters?"

[] "I would like to speak to the father alone, please."
 
On the Historicity of Your Predicament
Firstly, you passed the death save with a 16; you needed a 15. Giving you a 25% chance of survival is extremely generous when the mortality rate for your illness is 95%+. You'd have died many times over, over the course of Sept. 1575. So that's plot armor. Amputation survival rate? About 60%. But you're still quite sick.

The Paré leg -- a groundbreaking above-the-knee, hinge-jointed "pegleg" prosthetic, was first described in 1561, but its mechanism cannot be found in published sources until 1579. Perhaps, then, I'm taking a mild liberty here. But it really existed, and certainly would be available to someone of your station. Attached is a diagram of a Paré leg from 1633, and was my visual aid for describing it in this update.
 
[X] "Let me be. All of you."

As bad as it might be for Stanislaw to isolate himself, I can't help but think this is the most fitting option for his personality and how he has acted before
 
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