Si Deus Nobiscum: A Polish-Lithuanian Scion Quest

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Reaching out to the interrex is a no-go. The Sejm chooses the King. I'd say:

[X] Speak to the delegates of the Danzigers and Prussians.

To lock-in the small group of potential supporters. But mostly to see what characters might be in their delegation.
 
We made a strong argument, but it seems the Crownlanders are won over with the idea of Bathory. We need to provide something that cannot be offered by the Transylvanian Prince, and that'll be hard to do since the opposition is correct in that Matthias is untested whilst Stefan is a proven ruler and capable leader.

I do not believe the Archbishop declaring a new king personally is a good choice. It's begging for a civil war, as the choice to vote is torn away from the Crownlanders, who will personally see it as an affirmation that this new Habsburg is a tyrant and wishes to revoke their Golden Liberties.

Coaching Matthias might be a good option. He needs to stand on his own two legs, and not be a puppet, however, and us endlessly coaching him could be seen as pulling his strings. This will not be a good view to those outside the Lithuanian Camp.

The Counter-Bribe I feel is a very promising route. Establishing that Matthias will offer up the same amnesties that Stefan will is a good baseline of breaking up Zamoyski's camp, but it will not convince everyone alone. Yet, it is the only option I can see that doesn't deepen divisions to a ridiculous degree, whilst simultaneously getting us closer to the goal.

The Prussians and Danzigers do not vote for the King, to my knowledge. Any support we could get from them will probably be more material and in spirit, than in tangible political influence. I think this is the second worse option behind the Archbishop crowning without a vote.

Agitating the Piasts doesn't achieve anything. They're a camp we're trying to sway to our side, and riling them up to prove a point to Matthias is antithetical to the goal we have of getting him elected.

At some point we will need to parlay with Zamoyski, but I do not believe we have a strong hand to play at the negotiating table. We should always keep this possibility open, but we must strengthen our play before doing anything of the sort, I feel.

All in all, my preferred choice in the matter is the meeting with the Zborowski Brothers..

[X] Introduce the Archduke to the Zborowski brothers.

Does my assessment sound accurate to those more knowledgeable of the political climate of the era?
 
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Magnificate said:
As far as I remember, Royal Prussia was incorporated directly, so these guys could vote. That said, in our timeline their vote didn't matter much because so few of them arrived to the election. Here, we might be able to encourage better turnout.
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It might be worth it to approach them in the future, then. If this was the case. More turnout means more votes, which means we'll need to keep a larger coalition together. But, it's necessary to succeed against the maneuvering of Zamoyski and his chosen candidate.

My vote still stands, currently. I think breaking down Zamoyski's base of support is essential for this. He's got the majority of the Szlachta on his side. It's an uphill battle, but we must say over a larger number of crownland szlachta than any other party.

But I won't deny the possibility of approaching the Prussians should the choice come up again in the future.
 
Magnificate said:
As far as I remember, Royal Prussia was incorporated directly, so these guys could vote. That said, in our timeline their vote didn't matter much because so few of them arrived to the election. Here, we might be able to encourage better turnout.
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No no, Royal Prussian nobles could vote, but not the Danzig merchants, who held the money. They just sit back and watch, like the Prussians of the Hohenzollerns.

[X] Introduce the Archduke to the Zborowski brothers.
 
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I assumed their delegation included nobles, does it say otherwise elsewhere? I must've missed it.

That said, the Zborowski option is not bad, the only problem being that it might be us having to pay out of pocket, rather than our candidate.
 
Magnificate said:
I assumed their delegation included nobles, does it say otherwise elsewhere? I must've missed it.

That said, the Zborowski option is not bad, the only problem being that it might be us having to pay out of pocket, rather than our candidate.
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I personally envisioned a mix of burgher reps and Prussian nobles, present as observers. If that would be historically accurate, of course. Acting more like foreign diplomats than active cheer-jeer'ers
 
Its so tough because either the Zborowski or the Prussians would be a big defensive or offensive strengthening of the Hapsburg and would be very much necessary, but also a small informal parley now before the Sejm Sejm defines the contours of the open civil war or internal conflict would very much be part of any success for Matthias and the Hapsburg candidates that isn't at least in part a battlefield success. After all, Bathory is a proven prince- and therefore an older man. Who's to day that like, 10-15 years hence our boy Matty isn't back as a prospective king on Bathory's natural (or even unnatural) death?

Actually wait that could be a really really good hook to turn into the rhetorical blow of concern for Anna Jagellion, mother of the nation- she's very unlikely to bear a child at this point, but the steadiness of a prince of her age too all but guarantees that her line dies with her. But, with a young man's ardor, hope springs eternal. it's admittedly still very unlikely, but in addition to public jeering of the Piast orators, that could be the foot in the door to actually maybe work something out with Zamoyski. Who can resist the intoxicating idea of single-handedly orchestrating the resurrection of the great Jagiellon dynasty, and further- having an actual child-prince in your pocket to mold into Caesarean love of the Golden Liberty and Polonize from birth instead of just different Austrians and Transylvanians and Frenchmen adopting to their realm to varying degrees of sincerity.

And after all, we have already worked together on the articles of toleration, and it was not so long ago that we ourselves were not unopposed to majority-vote and the desperation of the lordlings and minor gentry and Zamoyski at least gave us the impression that he too was not unopposed to the restoration of Lithuania as long as the Radzwill let him hit the "actually have obey the law and leave accumulated offices" and such on the magnates of the Polish crown proper.

[X] Parlay with Zamoyski.
 
bookwyrm said:
Actually wait that could be a really really good hook to turn into the rhetorical blow of concern for Anna Jagellion, mother of the nation- she's very unlikely to bear a child at this point, but the steadiness of a prince of her age too all but guarantees that her line dies with her. But, with a young man's ardor, hope springs eternal. it's admittedly still very unlikely, but in addition to public jeering of the Piast orators, that could be the foot in the door to actually maybe work something out with Zamoyski. Who can resist the intoxicating idea of single-handedly orchestrating the resurrection of the great Jagiellon dynasty, and further- having an actual child-prince in your pocket to mold into Caesarean love of the Golden Liberty and Polonize from birth instead of just different Austrians and Transylvanians and Frenchmen adopting to their realm to varying degrees of sincerity.
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This is Sigismund's of Sweden strongest card, being of Jagiellonian stock. Too bad he is even younger than Matthias, therefore his dad will most likely try to gain the crown in his stead, having Anna's sister Katarzyna as his wife. Anna herself is 50 years old. That's quite an advanced age for the time period and well past child bearing. For her to get pregnant would require divine intervention and noboby expects that.

By the way... in real life guess who was made King after Walezy? De facto it was Anna, elected as King (there was a precedent in the person of Jadwiga some 200 years earlier, she was also King), while Bathory was made King de iure uxoris (by marriage). He was Anna's equal and had all the rights and privileges of one, but would only remain monarch so long as Anna's alive. When he passed, Anna could in theory fight any new election, since she was King as well, but didn't do so for the good of the realm and relinquished any rights to the throne, wanting Sigismund to be elected instead. She remained formally a King up until her death.
Rolman said:
I personally envisioned a mix of burgher reps and Prussian nobles, present as observers. If that would be historically accurate, of course. Acting more like foreign diplomats than active cheer-jeer'ers
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That is possible, since Royal Prussia and other provinces had General Sejmiks as well, where the delegates from lesser Sejmiks would gather before going to the main Sejm in order to consolidate their point of view and strengthen their position. Gdańsk's all-important status gave the city a lot of leeway with observers.
 
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Devildog said:
On a partly unrelated note. How far have we diverged from our original timeline thus far?
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Not a huge deal. Nominating Maciej/Matthias instead of the Emperor himself is the biggest one yet. Other than that, marrying Mariana/Maryna Sapieha (who otl did not marry anybody extremely important, but I had to make a historical concession).
 
Rolman said:
Not a huge deal. Nominating Maciej/Matthias instead of the Emperor himself is the biggest one yet. Other than that, marrying Mariana/Maryna Sapieha (who otl did not marry anybody extremely important, but I had to make a historical concession).
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Were there any real opportunities to alter history we've missed so far, or has this all gone as you've expected?
 
Taut_Templar said:
Were there any real opportunities to alter history we've missed so far, or has this all gone as you've expected?
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Bold assumption that I planned so far ahead! ;) Half-joke aside though, and accounting for the very long hiatuses early on, ever since the questers chose to study in France I knew Henri would have to win the 73 election for narrative reasons — it would just be too juicy (plus it's a bit of a historical throwaway). I've long been waiting for this election to come around to actually mess up the timeline a little!
 
Rolman said:
Bold assumption that I planned so far ahead! ;) Half-joke aside though, and accounting for the very long hiatuses early on, ever since the questers chose to study in France I knew Henri would have to win the 73 election for narrative reasons — it would just be too juicy (plus it's a bit of a historical throwaway). I've long been waiting for this election to come around to actually mess up the timeline a little!
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A certain Sir Zamoyski is working hard to keep it on the straight and narrow. :V
 
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