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Seeing Red [Naruto]

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[x] My defenses in general aren't on par with my offence, and in some situations a first strike isn't good enough.

Hisana is hardly over-reliant on her sharingan. Having the sense to use the tools you're given should not be a criticism.
 
[jk] My protag harem aura is lacking

though on the serious note, most cases in the fights we've seen thus far it's been our endurance that has been lacking.
then again it's usually compared to naruto who has near infinite endurance.
 
We've trained with Ebisu extensively, and he's practically the definitive exemplar of "mastering the basics". If we were leaning too much on a gimmick, he'd do his best to beat it out of us. We use the Sharingan extensively, yes - but is that "over-reliance"?

I don't think so - at least, not at this point. It's true that eventually we could become over-reliant on it, and that that's something to avoid, but I don't think calling it our current "greatest weakness" is accurate - we're solidly chunin level even with it turned off.
 
[X] - My reliance on my bloodline

The defences thing is good, but Hisana has been using those eyes a lot, which isn't bad, but it's important to recognize that there are people who can get past it and she'll be significantly weaker without it.
 
ZeroForever said:
[jk] My protag harem aura is lacking

though on the serious note, most cases in the fights we've seen thus far it's been our endurance that has been lacking.
then again it's usually compared to naruto who has near infinite endurance.
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what are you talking about she already has sasuke and Naruto two of the main cast and she isn't even on her first mission yet, progress! :V
 
[x] My defenses in general aren't on par with my offence, and in some situations a first strike isn't good enough.
 
[x] My defenses in general aren't on par with my offence, and in some situations a first strike isn't good enough.

Mmmmno I do not feel like Hisana is over-reliant on Sharingan. No more than any other ninja is reliant on their own normal mk1 eyeball. Hers just happened to be mk2 eyeball. She is not wrong to milk that advantage, you know? And it's not like her combat style is going to crumble if she one day wakes up without it. Her ability to rapidly learn new spells might, but not her already-existing combat style.

Defense and sustainability of her offence are somewhat of a problem, though.
 
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[x] My defenses in general aren't on par with my offence, and in some situations a first strike isn't good enough.

These are good arguments.
 
[x] My defenses in general aren't on par with my offence, and in some situations a first strike isn't good enough.
-[x] I also worry that I'll become too reliant on my bloodline, but I don't think it's a weakness currently so much as one I want to avoid.


Might be a bit "have cake and eat it too" for a write-in, but I think it's a fair assessment of Hisana even if it goes beyond Kakashi's question. We aren't yet too reliant on the Sharingan--sure, we might be worse without it against high level threats, but that's not because of reliance so much as a lack of training. But pointing out that we want to avoid that lets us get the ball rolling on anti-Sharingan techniques, pokes Sasuke into not assuming his eyes will solve all his problems, and lets Kakashi know that Hisana is fairly thoughtful about the future.
 
Prospalz said:
Defense and sustainability of her offence are somewhat of a problem, though.
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Not at all.
She has the Final Hurricane, and her Chakra Capacity and Control are improving organically.

Defense in Naruto is not from ninjutsu, barring some bloodlines.
You dodge better, you see through genjutsu faster.
You don't just come up with defensive ninjutsu; they don't really exist as a general category.

Even the putatively defensive techniques like Susanoo and Lightning Armor are solidly offensive in application, and when used in defense we have seen them repeatedly breached by everything from Boil Release to getting their feet yanked out from under them to literally being punched through.
Or simply being mindfucked into compliance.
 
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I wonder if extreme chakra control ability combined with some medical ninjutsu could science up a way to increase base durability before chakra reinforcement applies. Get some body mods and stuff going on.

Or work out some kind of budget susanoo-ish chakra armor with seals. Or both.
 
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uju32 said:
The Sharingan is a dead sexy bloodline. But because it's a bloodline, people come prepped for it. And in the more than forty years since the Uchiha have fought Konoha's wars, people will have come up with a LOT of counters.

Note how canon Zabuza used Hidden In The Mist to deprive Kakashi of the use of the Sharingan. Or how Deidara spent years training his sight to look through genjutsu. Or how Danzo disabled Shisui despite his having a Mangy Eye.

We aren't going to match Itachi or Tobi by simply going more Sharingan; they have decades of experience on us, and we'd be playing perpetual catchup if we try that route. We have to think a little laterally.

So more Speed. More Intelligence. Better Chakra Control. More holdout techniques that can't be disabled by a flashbang.
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This is a bad argument for a number of reasons.
1) Planning, at this stage, against the like of Itachi, Madara, Tobi, Danzo, is a folly. They'll gank us no matter what we try, bloodline or not. Speed? Tobi could fight as equal against Minato. Chakra control? Doesn't matter if you don't have a good enough sharingan or some other cheat against Mangekyo genjutsu. Etc, etc, etc.

Against most opponents, use of sharingan is absolutely a good idea. In fact, I can think of very few, if any situations, where it would be disadvantageous to use sharingan.

2) While absolutely, ninjas have developed at least some counters to sharingan, as Uchiha clan didn't completely dominate the world in the warring clans era, they were still one of the two most powerful clans, and remained a powerful ninja clan up until Itachi and Tobi killed them all. This tells me that Uchiha-style combat (remember, not all Uchihas had sharingan) remained effective and wasn't rendered obsolete.

3) It has been four years since Uchihas were a thing, and they aren't really a thing right now either. Most people wouldn't expect to fight Uchihas and wouldn't have a counter ready.

4) There's a difference between reliance and over-reliance on one's bloodline. Same with specialization and over-specialization. Hisana, from what I observed, wasn't over-reliant on her eyes. They are a booster, but she is training in other ninja arts, and training hard.

My point is, I guess, that thinking that in most situations sharingan would not be an effective force multiplier if faulty, and that, while an ideal ninja would be able to fight blind (or lacking any other sense) and would be an absolute generalist with a counter to every situation, belief in and inclusion of sharingan powers as a core element of her fighting style (and even that is arguable) is not the most important and general issue Hisana has as a ninja.
 
toy said:
I wonder if extreme chakra manipulation ability combined with some medical ninjutsu could science up a way to increase base durability before chakra reinforcement applies. Get some body mods and stuff going on.

Or work out some kind of budget susanoo chakra armor with seals. Or both.
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It's the type of thing that Kabuto or Tsunade or Sakura or Orochimaru would have already worked out to varying degree's of success.

Looking at cannon they kinda all have. Probably more effective to go for Sage mode if anything though.
 
[X]My stamina, prolong battles will kill me.

-edit-

We're pretty good on defense already and we do not rely on our sharrigan as much as people are thinking. But we suck at the long game. We do good in the first strikes, but tire quickly.

-edit-

Being able to fight at our best longer than we currently can would do us wonders.
 
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uju32 said:
Not at all.
She has the Final Hurricane, and her Chakra Capacity and Control are improving organically.

Defense in Naruto is not from ninjutsu, barring some bloodlines.
You dodge better, you see through genjutsu faster.
You don't just come up with defensive ninjutsu; they don't really exist as a general category.
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You're correct that defense in Naruto doesn't come primarily from Ninjutsu - this is why I wrote my broader write-in, instead of using the provided vote. If being better defensively means having higher speed and better genjutsu, then I'm all for improving those statistics.

That said, the whole reason we created the Final Hurricane seal is to patch over a weakness of ours, and her Chakra Control and Capacity can always stand to be improved.
 
toy said:
I wonder if extreme chakra control ability combined with some medical ninjutsu could science up a way to increase base durability before chakra reinforcement applies. Get some body mods and stuff going on.
Or work out some kind of budget susanoo-ish chakra armor with seals. Or both.
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The best canon comes up with are:
Creation Rebirth by Tsunade.
Creation Rebirth
S-rank medical technique. Extreme regen. Requires an S-rank seal. Shortens your life each time you use it.

Yin Healing Wound Destruction by Kabuto.
Yin Healing Wound Destruction
A-rank medical technique. Relies on timing and judgement. Extremely chakra intensive, and didn't stop genin Naruto's Rasengan.

Orochimaru-Style Body Replacement by Orochimaru
Orochimaru-Style Body Replacement Technique
Unique technique. Rank unknown. Snake-related apparently. Requirements unknown.
 
[x] - My reliance on my bloodline

He asked for the deadliest one, not the biggest one. Which is more likely to kill her if exploited? Definitely her bloodline. People exploit a lack of defenses all the time, but a fundamental assumption like her Sharingan being compromised is way more likely to take her out, if it happens.
 
Also I'm rather perplexed that people are focusing on the coping aspect of the Sharingan when Hisana has been explicitly noted to take jutsu beyond what it gives her through making the basic clone jutsu sealless instead of how Kakashi will alter their training.

Because unless the Sharingan is making them cocky the logical response to someone saying they rely upon it a lot is to have them train under conditions that render the mighty visual clarity useless, and it's not like we might have a mission involving combat in the mist in the near future, which would make such training invaluable for Naruto as well.
 
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pressea said:
He asked for the deadliest one, not the biggest one. Which is more likely to kill her if exploited? Definitely her bloodline. People exploit a lack of defenses all the time, but a fundamental assumption like her Sharingan being compromised is way more likely to take her out, if it happens.
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Which is more likely to be exploited? By people against whom it actually matters? No matter what we do or what we try, one on one, Zabuza, Orochimaru, Tobi, Itachi, Madara, and any of the other people with a counter to sharingan would punk us anyway. Thus, while sure, if sharingan is subverted and defeated, we are in trouble, people with a chance to actually defeat sharingan are people who would defeat us anyway, sharingan or no sharingan.
 
What do techniques that "defeat the Sharingan" even look like?

Like, flashbangs and/or pepper spray laced smoke bombs, I guess? But those are pretty debilitating to people without speshul eyes, too. I'm having trouble thinking of a situation where us having the Sharingan on gives the enemy an advantage.
 
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