Even that wouldn't do it. Opening the eighth gate literally turns you to ash from the inside out, and also pulverized your bones with every movement. It took Ninja Jesus healing to save Gai, and even Naruto couldn't save his career.

I think it could be possible to make opening the first few gates mostly harmless, though.
The way I read it, the Gates basically Overclock your chakra network. It pushes the output past the safe normal chakra reinforcement, which then causes the physical damage and pain as a side effect of your chakra network being on fire.

The Eighth gate kills then because it directly consumes the chakra network itself, burning away your mind and body in a single flash of power. The earlier gates probably wreak massive havoc too, but it's secondary to the body damage caused by it.

Overall I don't think it's a good investment for us, despite it's power. It doesn't leverage our advantages.
 
If we are talking improbable and likely impossible, the best way to use gates other than just conditioning the body like you are Might Guy is to use Sage Mode, since it seems to imbue it's user with resilience and vigor like nothing else; probably enough to just flatly stop all side effects at least up to gate four, and blunting the damage of the higher ones.

There are probably obstacles on the way of combining that stuff; out-of universe concerns with silly supermode stacking (Super Sage Hisana Super Sage), and in-universe concerns with combining power of raging/exploding power of Gates with an ability which requires perfect control and focus in order not to kill you when you attempt to try to use it.
 
Wouldn't think it's worth it to be able to open more than, say, the 3rd Gate.
Yep, that sounds about right. That's the level Kakashi was able to reach himself, after all.
Pretty much this.
Beyond that you hit diminishing returns in something that's not one of our specialties.
So why bother?

Gates probably require B or A-rank strength and taijutsu both, which are out of band upgrades for us, as well as Taijutsu(Strong Fist Style)
We'll probably grab Strong Fist off Rock Lee at the finals because Sharingan, but we still need to grind it up.

Not that we shouldn't get them(B-rank across the board minimum) but it's still an additional XP cost.
 
By the way, when we finally fight Danzo, we are going to give the fucker flashbacks when he realizes that we have combined Shisui style with senjutsu...
I hope that in that fight (or in any other "Boss" fight) we can deliver this jewel

 
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There are a few important things on unlocking Sage mode eventually.

Hisana likely need S rank chakra, only a few non-summon people in the series are shown to have a version Sage Mode and all of them could be argued as having S Rank chakra.

  • Hashirama Senju
  • Naruto Uzumaki
  • Minato Namikaze
  • Jiraiya
  • Jūgo
  • Kabuto Yakushi
  • Mitsuki
Of the people listed above the only ones who would not qualify as Kage level chakra is Kabuto, Jūgo and Mitsuki. Kabuto got the reserves by integrating Orochimaru's cells and chakra into his body along with integrating Jūgo's passive ability. Jūgo has a specialized Kekkei Genkai that also causes him to lose rationality. Mitsuki is a product of Orochimaru's genetic design and his sage mode is shown as currently involuntary, it probably shares a genetic component with Jūgo's.

We also likely need to be S rank chakra control to master it too. Jiraiya was the one who had it first introduced and his mastery of it was incomplete, he could not properly balance his chakra's so he had involuntary transformations such as his face changing during the mode.

Probably beyond S rank control would allow an near instant transformation like Hashirama Senju demonstrated in the fourth shinobi war.

There are also two versions of Sage mode also. The first one is the Sage Mode demonstrated by Naruto and others, with very little in the way of physical changes, maybe some new tattoo's on the skin or a change in the eyes if it is done successfully.

The other is Sage Transformation where you willingly take on parts of the physical form of the summon clan that taught you the Sage Mode. Kubato is the best full control example of this. The cursed seal is another. The problem with the cursed seal is that the user has no control over it, as it tends to be an on or off transformation along with having other issues related to Orochimaru in general. Since Hisana avoided the snake bite she likely will not unlock this transformation as it either need Jūgo's clan's Kekkai Genkai or the cursed seal.

Both forms offer increased strength, speed, stamina, perception and durability. The natural energy of the different summon clans may have other effects.

Since Hisana is going to do a seal based enhancement towards it, there is no telling what the over-all affect might be in the end.

The information was cribbed from the Naruto wiki so it may be wrong or non-canon.
 
Nope.
Kurenai was elite jounin, entrusted with the care of two clan heirs including an unsealed Hyuga.
She isn't minimum anything.

1. Actually, yep. Asuma outright says that Kurenai is a newly-minted jounin.
2. "Elite jounin" is redundant; the word jounin literally means "elite ninja."
3. Hinata isn't the heiress; Hiashi has specifically labeled her a disappointment and is focusing on Hanabi.

So, yes, Kurenai is an elite ninja of Konoha who is trusted with the protection and further education of some very promising students, because that's what literally every jounin is. But there's no indication that Kurenai is among the best jounin Konoha has to offer except that she's remarked on as an expert in genjutsu. After all, Ebisu was entrusted with the Hokage's own grandson and is "just" a tokubetsu jounin whose "jounin-level" specialty is stated to be teaching.

Neji had a point total of 27 points when he was jounin; Kurenai was 29 points when we first see her.
He's the current lower limit I'm aware of for jonin.
For comparison, Baki, Gaara's jonin and the guy trusted with running herd on a jinch, has a point total of 29.5.

The points in the databooks are kinda bullsh*t. And considering Baki was moments away from sh*tting himself when Gaara started to go full bijuu, I doubt he was assigned because they thought he could take Gaara out, which is the only situation in which their choosing him relates at all to his point total.

That is true, but the Kekkei Genkai that falls under the Combined Chakra Transformation category, are not determined by genetics so much (we have seen lava users in 3 different villages) but from Chakra nature, we already have wind, and we have an affinity for fire as an Uchiha (In canon Sasuke had 2 elemental affinities, lighting and fire and the chakra paper on this quest only showed one).

There are a lot of ways that a bunch of ruthless ninja can get their hands on a particular bloodline, and not every clan is going to be as successful in protecting it as the Hyuuga. The fact that three different villages have Scorch Release users means nothing.

My understanding is that Dust Release is just an incredibly advanced set of techniques, not a bloodline thing.

The literal definition of a kekkei genkai is that is it as an ability based in genetics and passed on through the bloodline of its users. The word kekkei means "bloodline." If it's just something you can learn then the distinction between kekkei genkai and hiden (clan-specific hidden techniques) doesn't exist.

Also, Kakashi specifically stated that the Sharingan doesn't do sh*t for copying kekkei genkai, and he said this in reference to an elemental bloodline, Haku's Ice Release.

My understanding is that Dust Release is just an incredibly advanced set of techniques, not a bloodline thing. In chapter 525, Onoki says Mu passed the secrets on to him, which sounds a lot more like teaching obscure techniques than something restricted by inheritance.
This also implies (since it's a "kekkei tota", which is supposed to be an advanced kekkei genkai) that other combination elements can be used without being born into it; this is further supported by Ninja Clash in the Land of Snow, where the Land of Snow ninja (and Kakashi) use Hyoton*. If that's the case, given that almost nobody does that, my conclusion is that the genetic part of elemental kekkei genkai basically handles the elemental transformation for them, and using the techniques without that requires effectively doing three or more transformations (the two base elements and the combination element) at once - which is impractical for almost anyone else.

* The Snow ninja may or may not be using a different form of Hyoton, because they use pre-existing ice instead of generating it, but Tobirama generates his water to use the same Suiton techniques as everyone else so I'm pretty sure they're either conserving chakra or just worse at it than a genetic user.

Or, you know, the movie isn't canon and is about as authoritative a source of information as crappy anime filler.

i'd assume Mu deliberately searched for someone with his affinities specifically to take them as an apprentice

Onoki is the grandson of Ishikawa, the First Tsuchikage, so I doubt he had to actually do any "searching."

(Snow appears in the movie and two novels, but AFAIK not the manga.)

The fact that some of the filler exists here is not a case that all of it exists or is all equally likely to exist. Ninja Clash in the Land of Snow also had a Ninja Train (TM), really powerful chakra-absorbing armor that was never used again, and a f*cking chakra-powered terraforming device that was able to bring spring to an entire country's worth of icy tundra (which incidentally should have been absolutely catastrophic to the ecosystem).

Seeing the state in which Gai was left after opening the 8 gates (he was literally burning from inside out), only Tsunade level regeneration could give us a small chance to open the 8 gates without dying...

Gai was crippled for life even though Naruto used Sage of Six Paths bullsh*t to heal him. I sincerely doubt Hisana can do better than the kid running on the powers of the Father of Ninshu.

I don't think that Hisana can pull off a full usage of all Eight Gates without sinking an absolutely prohibitive amount of effort into that skill tree.

In regards to this, note that canonically, Gai tried to teach all three of his students how to open the Eight Gates. But by the time of the Chuunin Exams, only Lee had the sheer perseverance to unlock even the First Gate. In other words, super-prodigy Hyuuga Neji couldn't do it with a year's time to work at it. Even Kakashi has only ever been shown to open the First Gate.

(It's been awhile, so take this with a grain of salt) As far as I can tell there are two reasons that the Eight Gates hurt the user. One is that it overheats the body. Two is that it creates more force than the body can handle, causing it to tear itself apart. We can almost certainly solve the body heat issue with a storage seal of some sort, though the 'tear yourself apart' issue is probably harder. Maybe some sort of autohealing seal if the injuries are usually the same?

The Eight Gates are 8 specific tenketsu (the breakers on your Chakra Pathways that regulate the flow of chakra through the chakra circulatory system) which are responsible for setting the hard limits on your chakra flow to keep it safe. Opening/Releasing the Eight Gates means temporarily lifting these restrictions to flood your body with more chakra than it can safely, which gets worse with each one you open. I should note, BTW, that the Chakra Pathways are stated specifically to touch every part of the body, including muscles, bones and vital organs.

They don't just affect chakra, BTW, and are stated to release all of the body's normal limits that are there to protect the body from itself. Opening the Gate of Pain (the 4th Gate), for instance, is noted to cause muscles to tear upon use. The Gate of Wonder (the 7th Gate) rips the muscle fibers to shreds. This, as you can imagine, causes incredible pain and long-term damage.

Opening the final Gate, the Gate of Death, is specifically noted to cook the user from the inside out. If Naruto hadn't saved him, Gai would have literally burnt to ash as his own blood turned into steam and cooked him alive. Even before that point, with every attack Gai made, he was pulverizing his own bones to dust from the strain.

There are limits to even the best regenerative techniques; we'd have to be as good at medical stuff as Tsunade or Kabuto to even hope of making a seal that could offset the effects of anything beyond the first 4 Gates, and I'm being optimistic with that.

Taijustsu genius Lee, who focused on physical combat to the exclusion of all else, could open...the 5th Gate by the Chuunin Exams.

And Kakashi was flabbergasted to hear that he could do that much. Rock Lee elicited more of a "holy sh*t" reaction than every other competitor in the Chuunin Exams until Gaara unleashed Shukaku.

Yep, that sounds about right. That's the level Kakashi was able to reach himself, after all.

It's possible he can do more, but canonically Kakashi has only ever been shown or stated to open the First Gate, the Gate of Opening.

So next time we get a chance, we ask Kakashi or Rock Lee to teach us how to open the gates?

Short answer: lots of grueling training that you can't just shortcut with talent, because there's no way to be "talented" at breaking your own body's safety locks.
 
The main issue is that Lee trains until he literally can't move because of tiredness and ache, and then he gets up and trains some more.
Hisana trains a shit-ton, but it is divided in a lot of things, not solely focused like Lee is.

True.

Whilst Hisana could likely adapt to that kind of training plan, i doubt it's worth dropping her other training duties for.
 
The gates would be filed under Taijutsu, so if you want to dump enough rewards under it and a style to open a way, I would aim for B rank to start with.
 
The literal definition of a kekkei genkai is that is it as an ability based in genetics and passed on through the bloodline of its users. The word kekkei means "bloodline." If it's just something you can learn then the distinction between kekkei genkai and hiden (clan-specific hidden techniques) doesn't exist.

Also, Kakashi specifically stated that the Sharingan doesn't do sh*t for copying kekkei genkai, and he said this in reference to an elemental bloodline, Haku's Ice Release.
Or they have a biological ability that smooths the way through a specific elemental transformation that's functionally beyond almost anyone else without it. Not enough data to say for certain, and Kakashi isn't a researcher so I take his claims as practical observation rather than deeper mechanical explanations.

Onoki is the grandson of Ishikawa, the First Tsuchikage, so I doubt he had to actually do any "searching."
Dust Release being strictly an inherited ability requires that the first 4 Tsuchikage are related enough that Onoki picked up a gene from the Second while being the grandson of the first, and that the bloodline end with Onoki or his child* in order to explain why Kurotsuchi has a different one.
Mu and Onoki are literally the only examples of Dust Release we hear anything about.

* The databooks say Kitsuchi is related to the Tsuchikage, and he's the father of Onoki's granddaughter, so he's probably Onoki's son - and doesn't have Dust Release or ever show any indication of the elements needed to use it.

The fact that some of the filler exists here is not a case that all of it exists or is all equally likely to exist.
Until we have some indication one way or the other, we can't actually say for certain what is or isn't part of Seeing Red. Utterly dismissing part of something that has been shown to have at least a partial presence is unwise.

a f*cking chakra-powered terraforming device that was able to bring spring to an entire country's worth of icy tundra (which incidentally should have been absolutely catastrophic to the ecosystem).
You're complaining that the energy used in-setting to violate the laws of nature as we understand them violated the laws of nature as we understand them.
(There's plenty of things that are incredibly useful that should be used a hell of a lot more in canon that aren't. Yoroi's technique is one example, human-summoning is used a hell of a lot less than it should, and that's just what I thought of without much effort.)
 
Dust Release being strictly an inherited ability requires that the first 4 Tsuchikage are related enough that Onoki picked up a gene from the Second while being the grandson of the first, and that the bloodline end with Onoki or his child* in order to explain why Kurotsuchi has a different one.
Mu and Onoki are literally the only examples of Dust Release we hear anything about.

* The databooks say Kitsuchi is related to the Tsuchikage, and he's the father of Onoki's granddaughter, so he's probably Onoki's son - and doesn't have Dust Release or ever show any indication of the elements needed to use it.

Not every single child of someone with a kekkei genkai is going to inherit it. Only certain members of the Kagura clan inherited the Shikotsumyaku, for example. That not every single descendant of the First Tsuchikage has the capacity for Dust Release doesn't mean that it isn't biological, nor does the fact that Kurotsuchi has a different kekkei genkai. Even with kekkei genkai on the table, dynastic marriages between ninja clan are something that has to have happened every now and then, even if just within the village itself.

Certainly Ōnoki, noted for being ruthless and willing to use underhanded tactics to enhance his and his village's power, would have no problems with doing so if he believed he could benefit from it.

You're complaining that the energy used in-setting to violate the laws of nature as we understand them violated the laws of nature as we understand them.

No, I'm complaining that there's a machine somewhere that can easily perform a feat that in-universe is only even remotely possible to a kage-level chakra user or a bijuu in a setting that revolves around the capabilities of human beings and not their toys.

By all rights, crap from the movies like the ninja trains, chakra-fueled armor, terraforming machines and freaking airships being canon means that Naruto should be sci-fi. It makes absolutely no sense for such technology to be available to random f*cks like some ninja mooks from the Land of Snow and never show up anywhere else.
 
No, I'm complaining that there's a machine somewhere that can easily perform a feat that in-universe is only even remotely possible to a kage-level chakra user or a bijuu in a setting that revolves around the capabilities of human beings and not their toys.

By all rights, crap from the movies like the ninja trains, chakra-fueled armor, terraforming machines and freaking airships being canon means that Naruto should be sci-fi. It makes absolutely no sense for such technology to be available to random f*cks like some ninja mooks from the Land of Snow and never show up anywhere else.
Aside from them being recent (meaning not enough time to proliferate), probably expensive developments of a military that can explode if you throw two suits into each other?
Probably the same reason Iwa ninja don't have an air force using the indisputably canon technique Onoki, Akatsuchi, and Kurotsuchi use to fly.
 
Aside from them being recent (meaning not enough time to proliferate), probably expensive developments of a military that can explode if you throw two suits into each other?
Probably the same reason Iwa ninja don't have an air force using the indisputably canon technique Onoki, Akatsuchi, and Kurotsuchi use to fly.

The flight technique is just them lowering their specific weight or gravity with a Earth Release: Light-Weight Rock Technique.

This is a B rank earth technique, I imagine it could be learned easily enough. Hisana's current flight technique is sadly too chakra costly for her as it burns a lot of chakra each second. However Hisana's jutsu is true flight. Perhaps the cost on it will go down or the length will go up as her Ninjutsu mastery goes to A rank eventually.
 
The flight technique is just them lowering their specific weight or gravity with a Earth Release: Light-Weight Rock Technique.

This is a B rank earth technique, I imagine it could be learned easily enough. Hisana's current flight technique is sadly too chakra costly for her as it burns a lot of chakra each second. However Hisana's jutsu is true flight. Perhaps the cost on it will go down or the length will go up as her Ninjutsu mastery goes to A rank eventually.
I know how it works, and even if it doesn't pass whatever requirements you believe distinguish "true" flight from what it enables it still represents a massive tactical advantage.
 
Hmmm. An Earth Release: Light-Weight Rock Seal? Combined with an opposed Heavy-Rock one. If done right, might not even require us to learn Earth Release ourselves on a practical level, and should synergize pretty damn well with pretty much all our movement and taijutsu techniques.
 
Hmmm. An Earth Release: Light-Weight Rock Seal? Combined with an opposed Heavy-Rock one. If done right, might not even require us to learn Earth Release ourselves on a practical level, and should synergize pretty damn well with pretty much all our movement and taijutsu techniques.

I can't imagine that that technique is common knowledge, or that creating a seal to replicate it without knowing the technique itself is at all simple. If we get the chance to copy it with our special eyes, I'm all for it, but that won't be easy.
 
Hmmm. An Earth Release: Light-Weight Rock Seal? Combined with an opposed Heavy-Rock one. If done right, might not even require us to learn Earth Release ourselves on a practical level, and should synergize pretty damn well with pretty much all our movement and taijutsu techniques.

I see what you mean.

Right now, we have access to harsh bursts of directed force and movement which is useful for manoeuvring, but incapable of simulating proper flight without massive chakra cost. However, if we combined that with the ability to hover through your suggested seal, we would instantly become capable of actual fast paced flight abilities.

The best part is that both techniques combined would likely be cheaper than normal prolonged flight, due to the way they function - Short bursts of cheap aerial movement combined with equally short bursts of cheap hovering, enabling long ranged easy to direct flight for next to no cost.

However like Red-shirt says, it requires us to steal beforehand.
 
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Well, if we want to make seals to provide flight, we can always make artificial wings with seal-work and the existing flight technique we have. And, of course, have them be usable as Chakra blades for the sake of being able to just fly through a formation and butcher everything.

I mean, Iaijutsu Shunshin is still better, but not needing to actually land is a significant advantage in mook-slaughtering.
 
Hmmm. An Earth Release: Light-Weight Rock Seal? Combined with an opposed Heavy-Rock one. If done right, might not even require us to learn Earth Release ourselves on a practical level, and should synergize pretty damn well with pretty much all our movement and taijutsu techniques.
I assume that the ninja in-universe are competent, and that the tactical and strategic implications of flight are as obvious to them as to us.
If Konoha, home of the Uchiha, did not copy this technique and disseminate it way back at the founding of the village?
Either it's nowhere as useful as it first seems, or it requires more than just the ability to use Earth Release.

Hell, note how only a few Iwa nin are seen using this technique in the universe, and they all seem to be related to the Tsuchikage.
It might turn out to be hiden jutsu like the Kagemane.
 
Hell, note how only a few Iwa nin are seen using this technique in the universe, and they all seem to be related to the Tsuchikage.
It might turn out to be hiden jutsu like the Kagemane.

I think I read somewhere, so it may either be fact or fanon but to actually get flight from the jutsu requires a very high earth affinity. Without it you can manipulate weight pretty easy but without the right affinity or heavy training getting and sustaining flight may be impossible.
 
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