Sartier Quest: A Tale of Song, Gods, and Trouble (CK2-Let's Go Hunt Gods, SV!)

The slight issue there is that Vincennes and their Minor Houses are already running at pretty close to full military capacity. It's part of why they're fairly poor despite having a decent port and trade situation. I'll see if @Macchiato and me can nut out something else, possibly forcing Vincennes to accept a Tellar at Court with veto-power over raising banners.
Got it, thanks. I'll wait on your response. If it helps, I'm in general looking for something that softens the hit on Vincennes to where it's still plain that yet again we aren't terribly pleased or impressed by them but that alone isn't going to make us fuck them more militarily that badly and I think the full Sanction option goes too far.

From my perspective, they're already saying that Arnold went off the reservation and his actions seem to agree with that (independent of any other Teuvian agents that may or may not be present high up). It's plainly very embarrassing to them and everyone should already know it. The sheer fact that Arnold got away makes that worse in and of itself, so...?

Disappears into thin air.
Hmm.

Any chance I can ask for another Influence sink, perhaps in the neighborhood of a deeper background investigation on a given secretary candidate, that delays the actual selection until the next full turn?
 
Last edited:
Any chance I can ask for another Influence sink, perhaps in the neighborhood of a deeper background investigation on a given secretary candidate, that delays the actual selection until the next full turn?
Maybe we could recruit some troops in the mid-turn as well?

We could always use more Longbows.
 
Maybe we could recruit some troops in the mid-turn as well?

We could always use more Longbows.
Ooh, yes, that could be an option. If Oneiros/Macchiato are willing to accelerate the switch next turn to triggering a troop purchase with an Influence point instead of an Agent I'd be potentially down for that as well. Perhaps they won't since it short circuits the decision point for reserving influence for mid-turn if there's always an outlet but maybe that's okay?
 
@FriedIce @Spectrum

Alright, have expanded on the available Influence Options.



[ ] Recruitment - With the growth in tension and the fact that one of the land's premier generals has fled to a nominally unfriendly kingdom, Antonia is interested in setting up an army expansion ahead of schedule with some of the free time on her plate. [1 Influence Cost, gold crown cost as per troop types] (NB: Your Minor Houses are not allowed to support Professional troops, but each can support two more Semi slots. Please refer to Tellar datasheets if you want to see what everyone currently has)
-[ ] Write in: Recruitment plan (E.g., "1 House Longbows, 4 Harper Militia, 1 Harper Longbows")

[ ] The Root of the Tree - Arnold sat for years in the innermost counsels of the Vincennes. Now that he has fled his Teuvian sympathies are lain bare. How deep did the rot go? Who was he connected to, who did he report to? Perhaps between you and the spymasters of the Capo you can find an answer. [25% base chance, 4,000g, 1 Influence Cost, Gain details on Arnold Vincennes]

[ ] It's Too Quiet - From across the seas the word comes in. Tranquility is, well, tranquil. They suffered a sharp rebuff in their failed, though frightfully close to victorious, attack on Lowenton, so maybe they are licking their wounds. But now Sea-Bellain Ruger tells you of an island base. What are the pirates up to? [35% base chance, Martial/Intrigue Test, 5,000g, 1 Influence Cost, investigate the cause for the calm seas]
 
Thanks much!
[ ] Recruitment - With the growth in tension and the fact that one of the land's premier generals has fled to a nominally unfriendly kingdom, Antonia is interested in setting up an army expansion ahead of schedule with some of the free time on her plate. [1 Influence Cost, gold crown cost as per troop types] (NB: Your Minor Houses are not allowed to support Professional troops, but each can support two more Semi slots. Please refer to Tellar datasheets if you want to see what everyone currently has)
-[ ] Write in: Recruitment plan (E.g., "1 House Longbows, 4 Harper Militia, 1 Harper Longbows")
@OneirosTheWriter @Macchiato
Presumably a given house can support any reasonable additional number of called up Militia-grade troops without issue? Or what kind of numbers can we actually call up before it causes problems due to manpower/support? How do Militia work here, is it historically like levies where you only actually get a few weeks of service from them out of the year and then they go back to their farms? (What do the listed Militia regiments actually represent?)

And what's the difference between semi-pro and professional? Professional regiments appear to have a treaty cap while semi-pro has limits instead based on logistics due to the differing populations they're recruited from or something of that nature?

My initial inclination is pick this, recruit Longbows x1 and Inner Guard x1 for now for Tellar and maybe Militia only in some fashion for the minor houses. The minor houses' income are all terrible right now and so they can't afford/we shouldn't force them to carry more semi pro troops. They can't even afford the 50% purchase price of Longbows and even if they could, the 2k upkeep is 40% of their net income. Pick the Arnold option to use the other Influence point.
 
Delicious influence options are delicious... Those aren't great chances though, Root of the Tree has 47% success chance assuming no agent statline whilst a 80% chance if we use Hamid's statline.

I still kinda want to do it though.
 
Delicious influence options are delicious... Those aren't great chances though, Root of the Tree has 47% success chance assuming no agent statline whilst a 80% chance if we use Hamid's statline.

I still kinda want to do it though.
It's not like we have anything better to use Influence on, outside of maybe the assassins option and even that seems a bit wasteful. Better to put the bounty on his head and see if that causes strife inside Teuv. Also gets any youthful exuberant adventurers from Sartier perhaps after him.
 
It's not like we have anything better to use Influence on, outside of maybe the assassins option and even that seems a bit wasteful. Better to put the bounty on his head and see if that causes strife inside Teuv. Also gets any youthful exuberant adventurers from Sartier perhaps after him.
He's a quality general who knows how Sartier works very well, I'm of the opinion he needs to die. Pronto.

As for other things to spend influence on, I am curious about the Tranquillity action. Though frankly I'm treating Tranquillity as more like that constant itch that you'd like to get rid of but doesn't stop you from doing things in comparison to the existential threat that is the Teuv. Still someone we should get round to stomping on at some point though.
 
It should go without saying that these are one-off options and there are no guarantees that these opportunities will present themselves again. But just in case that was in doubt :)
 
He's a quality general who knows how Sartier works very well, I'm of the opinion he needs to die. Pronto.
Yeah, he's a problem, but I feel like that's trying to close the barn door after the horse already got out. Most of what he could have told them, he already would likely have at this point, including mentality, insight into us and how our military works, and so on. At best, I think he might give them a minor edge in adapting to new information if he wasn't especially thorough in what he shared, but...?

edit: And if the concern is him taking the field against us, we're going to have a lot bigger problems at that point than having one of their commanders having been killed long before that point anyway.
 
Last edited:
Ok, I think I'm ready to produce Plan FriedIce for this mid-turn. (No, I don't know if we're doing plan voting, but whatever)

[X] Plan FriedIce

[X][ARNOLD] ...putting together a force of assassins who will hunt the rat down. [-1 Influence, -4,000g]

The man needs to die. So lets have him do just that.

[X][SANCTION] Sanction House Vincennes for failing to stop him from from fleeing
-[X] House Tellar Veto on calling the banners

We want to punish them for this, but we need to moderate it and ensure it doesn't harm their ability to contribute to the defence of Sartier (or Greater Harper) as a whole.

[X][LANA] Join a Khironex attack on a makeshift pirate camp.

Best use for her out of the three options and it ruins some pirates' day, which is always a plus. The closer ties with Khironex are just a bonus.

[X][SEC] Violet Tsu

I don't trust the Capo options, personally, and I feel like we should build up our ties with our Minor Houses, who are one of our greatest resources (and far less problematic than our Major or Great vassals). The Timbre option is also an option though and would go some way to healing the fractures between our houses. Honestly, I'm not completely decided.

[X][TARRANT] Accept Fostering agreement [-1,000g]
[X][SONN] Accept Fostering agreement [1,000g]

We spent an action on this, I'll be damned if I don't say yes to them both. I'm a bit miffed that we're handing off our second in line to a Minor House though. But whatever, I'll take it.

[X] The Root of the Tree [-1 Influence, -4,000g]

Lets find out just how much damage this fucker has done.

Total costs: 2 Influence, 10,000g

Remaining resources after mid turn: 0 Influence, ~30,000g
 
Military Troops
You have four basic grades of troops, Professional, Semi-Professional, Militia, Levy. There is a fifth, but Elite forces are absurdly rare and expensive, and are basically the province of Spellknights and Capo's Chimaeras, so for practical concerns, just worry about the other four. The difference between them lies in their combat dice pool size, and their base morale; i.e., they fight better and withstand reversals more readily. Professional and Semi-Professional both roll 5 d20s in battle and pick the best three. Militia rolls 4 and picks the best three, and levies just start with three. As units lose combats or suffer casualties, they lose dice from their pool. By and large, against most opponents when you are reduced to two dice you are nearly combat ineffective, and anything below that is useless for combat and the disorganisation penalties to morale have almost certainly seen you rout by now. The dice pools can also be affected by some character bodyguard types, song types, elevation scenarios, etc.

  • The number of Professional Troops is a matter of treaty between the Houses: 5 Regiments Max for the Great Houses, 3 for the Vassal Houses, 0 for the Minor Houses and any estates below them.
  • The number of Semi-Professional Troops is a matter of how wealthy your populace is, since they are basically drawn from your landowning gentry to cover a lot of their own costs (hence their upkeep is half that of professional troops, but they fight on a similar level). The more well off your province (higher your Gentry Level) the more regiments can be sustained. There are a few other modifiers as well, such as certain House traits, what tier of House you are, etc. Also, Castle Districts (like Minor House Tsu's Mastiff) get +1 to their cap to reflect the Martial focus of the district.
  • The number of Militia and Levy Troops is not hard-capped, but does have a soft-cap in that the closer you get to your militia and levy making up 30% of your district population (30% of 160,000 for Tellar, or a total of 96 regiments), the more I start imposing additional cost and quality penalties.

Because of how combat works, expect a higher tier troop to beat the lower tier on most occasions, but in practical terms there are very few pure head-to-head fights without morale modifiers, characters, Songs, etc.

  • Professional and Semi-Professional Troops are your standing forces, always available, you only have a few, but they're very solid, and they are the most likely to be able to travel a long way to respond to travel.
  • Militia are forces that can respond quickly and competently to local crisis. Their upkeep is very cheap as long as they are not forced to be called up. Each regiment is entitled to a certain battle pay bonus, and keeping a Militia regiment raised for a six-month block requires 1,000g*, which is why there are references to the Lumen family getting drunk upon tallying up the expenses of your stand-off with the Sonissimmo.
  • Levies are forces that don't really appear unless their home town is being attacked directly, or if you have summoned all your banners. Keeping one of their regiments raised requires 500g*.

As a rule of thumb, when it comes to responding to provocations from other Houses/Raiding:
Standing Forces to make a point.
Militia to show you're mad.
Levies if you're going to the Triarii on this.

Part of what makes Dale and Vincennes dangerous is not their own Household Troops, but the fact they can also call upon their own six Minor Houses, who are each running full complements of troops. It also makes them rather poor, mind you, and the Turn 0 standoff actually required Vincennes to financially bail out a number of their vassals.

* = Minus Military Upkeep Bonus, the current value of which Tellar can't compute, because Tellar cannot into economics.
 
Last edited:
You have four basic grades of troops, Professional, Semi-Professional, Militia, Levy.
Makes sense all around. As a suggestion, that post may be worth indexing!

Because of how combat works, expect a higher tier troop to beat the lower tier on most occasions, but in practical terms there are very few pure head-to-head fights without morale modifiers, characters, Songs, etc.
Actually, that reminds me, what kind of control will we ever get on commanding an actual battle? Will commanders all use their own best judgment for the most part, based on current military research, their personal experience and temperament, and so on?

For example, if we're following what seems to be a common thread around here and stacking songweavers, archers and heavy infantry, will the commanders realize that we've constructed our army to be mostly interested in a stand-off fight with the infantry preventing rushdown and not willingly advance into melee unless forced?
 
Makes sense all around. As a suggestion, that post may be worth indexing!
I might index that for now, but I hope to one day make something a bit more comprehensive.

The overall theme to be aware of is that any regiment can beat any other regiment, but more professional regiments give you greater consistency and reliability.

Actually, that reminds me, what kind of control will we ever get on commanding an actual battle? Will commanders all use their own best judgment for the most part, based on current military research, their personal experience and temperament, and so on?

For example, if we're following what seems to be a common thread around here and stacking songweavers, archers and heavy infantry, will the commanders realize that we've constructed our army to be mostly interested in a stand-off fight with the infantry preventing rushdown and not willingly advance into melee unless forced?

When local command falls to one of your Agents, Councillors, or Courtiers, you guys will get presented with an order of battle, your best intel on the other side, the battlefield site, and then a set of options as to how you would like to approach the battle. After that your commanders will go about implementing best practices insofar as they understand them (read: I'll make sure your guys on the ground don't do anything stupid within the bounds of the system). At turning points in the battle, the question will go back to you guys as to how to proceed (commit the reserve, retreat, run around crying 'oh noes halp!').
 
The overall theme to be aware of is that any regiment can beat any other regiment, but more professional regiments give you greater consistency and reliability.
I have a little light-armoured Bandit Free Company (1,500g) charge down a heavy-armour militia regiment (2,500g), shatter it, then when the Raleigh House Guard charged it, led by a Minor House lordling who is a combat monster, and so far it has held its own and inflicted nearly 500g worth of casualties in a round of combat that should have simply crushed it.
*whistles*
 

Bandit Free Company (BF)
Militia Light Spears w/ Shields
4d20 Mod 10 Pen 5 Parry 15 Steadfast 50+ Morale 90, 3g per

...
Raleigh House Guard (RG)
Professional Heavy Longswords w/ HShields, Axes
5d20 Mod 25 Pen 2 Parry 15 Steadfast 35+ Morale 120, 23g per

Bantam Militia (MR)
Militia Heavy Spears w/ Shields
4d20 Mod 20 Pen 5 Parry 10 Steadfast 50+ Morale 90, 5g per
...
Turn 5
...
MR, BF charge each other
MR Wound Roll: 4d20h3 = 37
BF Wound Roll: 4d20h3 = 52
BF by 15!
MR Armour Mod: 52 - (20 - 5 = 15) - 10 = 27 / 500 = 473
BF Armour Mod: 37 - (10-5=5) - 15 = 17 / 477 = 460
MR Cohesion Roll: 50+ => 26, fail! -1 dice
MR Morale: d100 + 90 + 12 (General) - 15 (lost) - 20 (chaos) - 10 (dice) + 5 (flanks secure) = 161, pass
BF Morale: d100 + 90 + 13 (General) + 15 (won) = auto-pass

Turn 6
Donny Song of Knives on BF
3 Dice, Need 15+ = 38, success
+8 Pen on BF
...
MR fights BF
MR WR: 3d20 = 17
BF WR: 4d20h3 = 53
BF by 36!
MR Mod: 53 - (20 - 5 - 8 = 7) - 10 = 36 / 473 = 437
BF Mod: 17 - 5 - 15 = 0 / 460 = 460
MR Cohesion Roll: 50+ => 12, failed, -1 dice
MR Morale: d100 + 90 - 20 (chaos) - 36 (lost) - 5 (momentum) - 20 (dice) - 10 (10%) - 10 (magic) +12 (General) = 86, failed, fighting withdrawal!

Turn 7
MR Fighting Withdrawal Roll: d100 + 90 - 20 - 5 - 20 - 10 - 10 + 12 = 78, failed, falling back in disorder, BF casualties halved
...
BF pursues MR
MR WR: 2d20 = 36
BF WR: 4d20h3 = 50
BF by 14!
MR Mod: 50 - 7 - 10 = 33 / 412 = 379
BF Mod: 36 - 5 - 15 = 16 / 2 (failed withdrawal) = 8 / 450 = 442
MR Cohesion Roll: 50+ => 39, failed -1 dice
MR Morale: d100 + 90 + 13 (General) - 14 (lost) - 20 (chaos) - 30 (dice) - 20 (20%) - 20 (fighting withdrawal) = 13, shattered! All dice lost

BF Extra Attack: 4d20h3 = 41
MR Mod: 41 - 7 - 10 = 27 / 379 = 352

Turn 8

Donny Song of the Wind on BF
3 Dice, Need 20+ = 37, success
+16 Parry vs Missile to BF

A1 fires on BF
A1 WR: 5d20h3 + 5 = 56
BF Mod: 56 - 10 (Arm) - 10 (motion) - 16 = 20 / 442 = 422
BF Morale: d100 + 90 + 13 (General) + 20 (Victorious!) - 10 (ranged) = auto-pass

A2 fires on BF
A2 WR: 4d20h3 = 20
BF Mod: 20 - 10 (Arm) - 10 (motion) = 0 / 406 = 406
BF Morale: d100 + 90 + 13 (General) + 20 (Victorious!) - 10 (ranged) - 16 = auto-pass

RG charges BF
RG WR: 6d20h3 + 5 (Longsword v Light) + d16 = 57 (14)
BF WR: 4d20h3 + 5 (Spear charge) = 55
RG by 2!
RG Mod: 55 - (25 - 5 = 20) - 15 = 20 / 500 = 480
BF Mod: 57 - (10 - 2 = 8) - 15 = 34 / 422 = 388
BF Cohesion Roll: 50+10=60+ => 61, pass
BF Morale: d100 + 90 + 20 (Victorious!) - 2 (lost) - 10 (magic) - 10 (ranged) + 13 (General) - 20 (20%) = 139
RG Morale: d100 + 120 + 23 (General) + 2 - 5 (Allies retreating) = auto-pass

*Warning that a lot of things in there are acronymed or chopped down for my ease of use*
 
Last edited:
Making my actual votes now, with an edit pending depending on how Oneiros and Macchiato provide final arbitratration on my request for a lighter sanction of Vincennes...

I don't recall whether we're still under plan voting rules either but I suspect we are due to the fact that Influence is a limited pool and so competing options that spend more Influence than we have total can't be allowed to win.

[X] Plan Spectrum
[][ARNOLD] ...issuing a substantial Bounty for him, dead or alive, to persuade others to pick up the trail. [0 Influence, sets aside 6,000g]

As I argued before, I think he's already done the bulk of his harm to us, so while we want him gone, we don't want him gone so far as to limit our other options.

[][SANCTION] Sanction House Vincennes for failing to stop him from from fleeing
-[] House Tellar Veto on calling the banners, not original listed Sanction [-1 Relations with Vincennes, 500g to Setup, 1 Minor Courtier is dispatched, Tellar may veto any raising of the banners]

Being explicit here for what I'm hoping for approval on, with Relations hit and whatever else TBD.
edit: verdict edited in

[][LANA] Join a Khironex attack on a makeshift pirate camp. When Alice docked in Billfarthing she warned you that a pirate base has been newly founded on a small island in the seas east of Tellar. Alice is open to joining your fleets with her Clan fleet to wipe it out before it becomes a problem. [+1 Relations with Khironex, joint Sartier-Khironex attack on Tranquility forward base next turn]

Best use for her, avoids too much appearance of favoritism, piracy is still a national issue even if they're located closest to us, avoids punishing Dale as a whole too much after Lana already stepped up to take the blame.

[][SEC] Caitlyn Timbre, the sister of Laurent Timbre, who came to Evelyn's attention when she arrived in Etela on an errand for her brother. A few discreet inquiries tells you that Timbre would be glad for you to help the girl realise her potential. [Increased ties with Timbre, will help their young court gain influence and make Carlisle happy]

I also distrust the Capo options without a better way to vet them at this point for what is too important a position potentially. I could be argued into Violet but I never got an answer about what relative is being referred to here and we did get confirmation that what I brought up about the Caitlyn pick basically is what the Secretary position is supposed to be used for anyway. We'll have to find some other way to make the Minor Houses happier, hopefully with some economic stuff.

[][TARRANT] Accept Fostering agreement [+2 Relationship with Tarrant, 1,000g, exchange of nobles goes ahead, Shannon Tellar, 14 (2nd in Line), and Jessica Ritter will spend summers in Bartier, winters in Harper]
[][SONN] Accept Fostering agreement [+2 Relationship with Sonissimmo, 1,000g, Gregory Tellar, 12 (3rd in Line), and Peter Quinn spend summers in Etela, winters in Harper]

No issue with either of these, as mentioned before.

[] Recruitment - With the growth in tension and the fact that one of the land's premier generals has fled to a nominally unfriendly kingdom, Antonia is interested in setting up an army expansion ahead of schedule with some of the free time on her plate. [1 Influence Cost, gold crown cost as per troop types] (NB: Your Minor Houses are not allowed to support Professional troops, but each can support two more Semi slots. Please refer to Tellar datasheets if you want to see what everyone currently has)
-[] House Tellar - 1x Tellar Inner Guard, 1x Tellar House Longbows [12000g+23500g]
-[] House Reynolds - 1x Harper Longbows [2625g from each]
-[] House Hulland - 1x Harper Longbows [2625g from each]
-[] House Rios - 1x Harper Longbows [2625g from each]
-[] House Tsu - 1x Harper Militia, 1x Harper Longbows [3625g from each]

Comments:
Yes, we want Longbows in the rest of our Semi-Pro slots, no we can't really afford to go double Longbows this turn with everything else because they're hellaciously expensive, but we can more or less deal with the Inner Guard costs.
For the minor houses, House Lumen and House Morcombe are the poorest and so get off on this recruiting round. Everyone else gets either more Longbows because they have enough screening infantry or Tsu (conveniently the wealthiest) gets one of each. As I mentioned up-thread, none of the Minor Houses can realistically afford to support the rest of their Semi-Pro slots right now (either to recruit or to maintain) unless we want to be dirt poor like Vincennes, so they all only get Militia at the moment.

[] The Root of the Tree - Arnold sat for years in the innermost counsels of the Vincennes. Now that he has fled his Teuvian sympathies are lain bare. How deep did the rot go? Who was he connected to, who did he report to? Perhaps between you and the spymasters of the Capo you can find an answer. [25% base chance, 4,000g, 1 Influence Cost, Gain details on Arnold Vincennes]

Practically a no brainer.

Total Cost:
2 Influence
6000+500+1000+1000+12000+23500+2625+2625+2625+3625+4000 = 59500 gold
 
Last edited:
[][SANCTION] Sanction House Vincennes for failing to stop him from from fleeing
-[] House Tellar Veto on calling the banners, not original listed Sanction
With that write in...
[-1 Relations with Vincennes, 500g to Setup, 1 Minor Courtier is dispatched, Tellar may veto any raising of the banners]

We spent an action on this, I'll be damned if I don't say yes to them both. I'm a bit miffed that we're handing off our second in line to a Minor House though. But whatever, I'll take it.
Jessica Ritter moved to the Court at Bartier a while back, and she's being groomed by the Mezzo. And Peter Quinn has serious blood relations,
 
Last edited:
[X] Plan FriedIce

It's the plan that sets Arnold Vincennes up to die, which is good because I don't want the bastard lingering around in the background as a treacherous nemesis. To quote Vir Cotto from Babylon 5, "cut off his head and stick it on a pike as a warning for the next ten generations."

I think we should have punished Vincennes as hard as possible to make sure they don't fuck up again, but the likelihood of that being approved is minimal at best.
 
That's... at lot of money you're burning @Spectrum, are you sure you want to spend 60,000g on hiring costs?

I was under the impression we agreed that we were going to be doing huge infrastructure investment next turn? So we would presumably want whatever we could get our hands on.
 
[x][ARNOLD] ...putting together a force of assassins who will hunt the rat down. Hamid has sent out our deadly agents to put down this villain. [1 Influence Cost, 4,000g]
[x][SANCTION] Sanction House Vincennes for failing to stop him from from fleeing [0 Influence Cost, -1 Relations with Vincennes, Place ban on further recruitment or replenishment of forces]
[x][LANA] Join a Khironex attack on a makeshift pirate camp. When Alice docked in Billfarthing she warned you that a pirate base has been newly founded on a small island in the seas east of Tellar. Alice is open to joining your fleets with her Clan fleet to wipe it out before it becomes a problem. [+1 Relations with Khironex, joint Sartier-Khironex attack on Tranquility forward base next turn]
[x][SEC] Brittany Capo, a third cousin of the current Capo heir, Brittany has had a broad education but is still looking to figure out exactly where she belongs. Theo thinks she has a lot of potential. [Increased ties with Capo, puts a very solid fighter near Andres at nearly all times]
[x][TARRANT] Accept Fostering agreement [+2 Relationship with Tarrant, 1,000g, exchange of nobles goes ahead, Shannon and Jessica Ritter will spend summers in Bartier, winters in Harper]
[x][SONN] Accept Fostering agreement [+2 Relationship with Sonissimmo, 1,000g, Gregory Tellar and Peter Quinn spend summers in Etela, winters in Harper]
[X] The Root of the Tree
 
Back
Top