Sartier Quest: A Tale of Song, Gods, and Trouble (CK2-Let's Go Hunt Gods, SV!)

[OneirosTheWriter]

Actually, how close to Vincennes is Billfarthing?

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The six Minor Houses listed there run six of the seven districts of your Province. Billfarthing is on the eastern shore of your province. The city of Harper itself is on a great north-south running river that flows up to a mountain ranges that run horizontally across the centre of Sartier.

Your minor houses are mostly the coastal rim of your province, and you are the hub in the wheel.

Kinda map of Sartier:

       _____________________
    /  TARRANT  ANTILLES CAPO \
         -brr, mountains-
/  SONISSIMMO  TIMBRE DALE     \
       -brr, more mountains-
\  SARBA CARLISLE   VINCENNES /
 
     | RALEIGH  /--------------
 
     | TELLAR  |
 
      \       /

Billfarthing is in the SSE corner of Harper Province, so basically it's not far by sea, but it's a long way by land.

EDIT: Threadmark removed because we have a better map now.

 

[FriedIce]

Right, I promised a Plan FriedIce and whilst the ultimate final plan will have to wait on Oneiros getting back to me with my questions here is the rough draft:

Spoiler: Plan FriedIce

[ ] Non-Agent - Crime and Punishment [-1 Influence]
-[ ] Significant
--[ ] Additionally a multi-house peacekeeping force will be placed on the border on the Vincennes side

[ ] Non-Agent - Without Chivalry We Are Nothing [-1 Influence]
-[ ] Significant
--[ ] Additionally Lana Antilles is summoned to Harper to account for her actions

I spent a lot of time debating over these, however, I think I'm coming down on the side of significant retribution with a few added actions on top. As much as I'd like to smack them both until they can't stand up we do need to be wary about weakening our vassals too much. That said, they both need to be smacked, and hopefully the multi-house peacekeeping force on the border will get them to stop burning things at least...

[ ] Evelyn - Wait for Alice and then travel to Etela
-[ ] Foster Care [-1 Influence]
--[ ] Approach House Tarrant to negotiate possible fosterings.
--[ ] Approach House Sonissimmo to look into possible fosterings.
-[ ] Free - Patching Up (Her Relationship With Hana)

Right, now that we have it confirmed that travelling to Etela won't negatively impact Alice's trip (she'll just wait and get a lift with Alice) I want to have Evelyn not overly busy so that she still has time to spend with Alice. Sealing the deal with the fosterings is a relatively low effort task and its Evelyn who has the relationships with Sonissimmo and Tarrant anyway, hopefully that'll synergise with patching up her relationship with Hana.

[ ] Dominic Rios - Remain in Harper
-[ ] A Formal Position [-4,000g]

Its a really good idea with potentially grand benefits, lets do it. Dominic suggested it, so I'm hoping he might get a bonus to making this action happen, though Carmen's probably a better fit for the position.

[ ] Carmen Rios - Travel to Etela, then Dyelin
-[ ] Putting Yourself In Their Shoes
--[ ] House Sarba
-[ ] Free - Mentoring Audrey Suarez

Carmen Rios gets this because her Intrigue/Diplomacy score makes me feel she'll be better suited to dealing with Sarba, who continue to fund bandits on the border, than Evelyn and Dominic is busy. She's mentoring Suarez because she's basically our best bet for it

[ ] Luna Reynolds - Travel to wherever the symphony guard is based
-[ ] Meet the Symphony Guard!

We need to do this at some point. And if anyone's going to be doing it, it should probably be Luna.

[ ] Juan Lumen - Remain in Harper
-[ ] ...And Get Over It [-20,000g]

We'll loose Juan for a long time, three years, but we get a lot out of that project. It counts as three infrastructure projects and it'll even help commoner mood!

[ ] Theo Raliegh - Travel to Greater Carentan
-[ ] Taking Over The Caseload
--[ ] Survey Greater Carentan

This needs to be done and it needs to be done now. I almost want to give it to Carmen Rios but she's busy with Sarba, Honestly I'm inclined to give it to Theo Raliegh, whilst he'll only have a 81% chance of successful completion (lower than I'd like) his combat 40 means that he's almost guaranteed to get out alive if things do go tits up...

[ ] Hamid Hulland - Remain in Greater Harper
-[ ] A Formal Relationship
-[ ] Taking Over the Caseload
--[ ] Survey Greater Harper

It was confirmed that bringing Melody along won't take all of Hamid's time, so naturally we're giving him another task to do. He can bring Melody along with him, it'll be like a buddy cop mission!

[ ] Non-Agent (Charlie Tellar) - Remain in Greater Harper
-[ ] Bandits With A Yellow Banner

We need to do this, we don't have enough intrigue actions, Charlie Tellar has offered to help. Lets let her.

[ ] Non-Agent (Rita Hulland) - Travel to Etela
-[ ] Hello Sailor
--[ ] Have Rita travel herself to Sonissimmo to attempt to learn these skills

I can't think of any reason not to have her do this. Can anyone else?

[ ] Non-Agent (Alice Tellar) - Remain in Harper
-[ ] We're funding her magic research! [-15,000g]

[ ] Free - Help Needed
-[ ] Instruct all agents to keep an eye out for candidates in their travels.

This could be dangerous considering we've got a couple of tight actions, but I'm hopeful it won't hit us where it hurts, I'm really not keen on the idea of giving enemy spymasters an open season on our court.

Total Costs: 3 influence (2 remaining), 39,000g (~11,000 income remaining after actions)

Huh, that was a surprisingly cheap turn.

 

[OneirosTheWriter]

Right, I promised a Plan FriedIce and whilst the ultimate final plan will have to wait on Oneiros getting back to me with my questions here is the rough draft:

Spoiler: Plan FriedIce

[X] Non-Agent - Crime and Punishment [-1 Influence]
-[X] Significant
--[X] Additionally a multi-house peacekeeping force will be placed on the border on the Vincennes side

[X] Non-Agent - Without Chivalry We Are Nothing [-1 Influence]
-[X] Significant
--[X] Additionally Lana Antilles is summoned to Harper to account for her actions

I spent a lot of time debating over these, however, I think I'm coming down on the side of significant retribution with a few added actions on top. As much as I'd like to smack them both until they can't stand up we do need to be wary about weakening our vassals too much. That said, they both need to be smacked, and hopefully the multi-house peacekeeping force on the border will get them to stop burning things at least...

[X] Dominic Rios - A Formal Position [-4,000g]

Its a really good idea with potentially grand benefits, lets do it. Dominic suggested it, so I'm hoping he might get a bonus to making this action happen, though Carmen's probably a better fit for the position.

[X] Evelyn - Foster Care [-1 Influence]
-[X] - Approach House Tarrant to negotiate possible fosterings.
-[X] - Approach House Sonissimmo to look into possible fosterings.
-[X] - Approach House Sarba to look into possible fosterings if 'Putting Yourself In Their Shoes' goes well this turn

Evelyn's the one with the relationships with both Tarrant and Sonissimmo (kinda) and she's got the best diplomacy rating of all the councillors so when the negotiations actually come through we'll have the highest chances of success. Hopefully it'll synergise with patching things up with Hana as well. Also, the fosterings are kindof her baby (pun intended)

[X] Carmen Rios - Putting Yourself In Their Shoes
-[X] House Sarba

Carmen Rios gets this because her Intrigue/Diplomacy score makes me feel she'll be better suited to dealing with Sarba, who continue to fund bandits on the border, than Evelyn and Dominic is busy.

[X] Luna Reynolds - But Its So Big And Blue [-2,000g]

Basically, in the faint hope that it synergises with Alice coming to visit this turn. We're not going to war next turn, the levy action can wait.

[X] Juan Lumen - ...And Get Over It [-20,000g]

We'll loose Juan for a long time, three years, but we get a lot out of that project. It counts as three infrastructure projects and it'll help commoner mood! (I'm having second thoughts on this one, honestly)

[X] Theo Raliegh- Taking Over The Caseload
-[X] Survey Greater Carentan

This needs to be done and it needs to be done now. I almost want to give it to Carmen Rios but she's busy with Sarba, Honestly I'm inclined to give it to Theo Raliegh, whilst he'll only have a 81% chance of successful completion (lower than I'd like) his combat 40 means that he's almost guaranteed to get out alive if things do go tits up...

[X] Non-Agent (Charlie Tellar) - Bandits With A Yellow Banner
-[X] Have Charlie Tellar do it.

We should follow this lead and our House Justice has kindly volunteered to do just that for us!

[X] Free - Mentoring Audrey Suarez
-[X] Carmen Rios

Someone posted an analysis of where she'll do best, and I think it was agreed that Carmen is the best place for her.

[X] Non-Agent - The Lady In Yellow [-500g, -1 Influence]

My paranoia is strong with this one. I ran the numbers and even with Hamid's statline we only have 70% chance of success. @OneirosTheWriter, what's your position on Ulthuan Quest style stunts?

[X] Hamid Hulland - A Formal Relationship

We need more intrigue agents and we shouldn't turn up the opportunity to get another one.

[X] Non-Agent (Rita Hulland) - Hello Sailor
-[X] Have Rita travel herself to Sonissimmo to attempt to learn these skills

I can't think of any reason not to have her do this. Can anyone else?

[X] Free, Non-Agent - Help Needed
-[X] Instruct all agents to keep an eye out for candidates in their travels.

This could be dangerous considering we've got a couple of tight actions, but I'm hopeful it won't hit us where it hurts, I'm really not keen on the idea of giving enemy spymasters an open season on our court.

[X] Free (Evelyn) - Patching Up

Lets try and repair the relationship between Hana and Evelyn, hopefully that'll synergise with the fostering too.

Total Costs: 4 influence (1 remaining), 26,500g (~25,000 income remaining after actions)

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@Macchiato will be dropping a monster reply soonish for all the questions that have been asked so far.

 

[FriedIce]

@Macchiato will be dropping a monster reply soonish for all the questions that have been asked so far.

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Awesome, I'm going to sleep now so hopefully I'll wake up to it. There's another question in the plan btw!

Also, I don't suppose you could take that code map of Sartier and stick it in one of the threadmarked posts? Its pretty useful for visualising things.

 

[OneirosTheWriter]

Also, I don't suppose you could take that code map of Sartier and stick it in one of the threadmarked posts? Its pretty useful for visualising things.

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Sure

 

[Spectrum]

We'll loose Juan for a long time, three years, but we get a lot out of that project. It counts as three infrastructure projects and it'll help commoner mood! (I'm having second thoughts on this one, honestly)

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I considered it but flavor wise, even if they all count as infrastructure projects for upgrade and the bridge is quite efficient cost wise if we just care about advancing to level 2, the bridge is IMHO far less important than roads, granaries, courier system, and the docks upgrades. Furthermore, Read the Manual research would appear to continue to benefit only the core infrastructure projects but not the bridge unless I read it wrong.

@OneirosTheWriter Can you weigh in here? Do we actually just care about reaching Level 2 no matter how we do it, or will the specific options picked actually matter in terms of turn interrupts/random events, and so on? And did I read it right that "Read the Manual" only applies to Roadworks Next Twenty Leagues and not ...And Get It Over With?

My paranoia is strong with this one. I ran the numbers and even with Hamid's statline we only have 70% chance of success.

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Yeah, hence why I skipped it in my tentative one. It's a non-Agent action but even with an agent we still don't have a great chance of success.

I can't think of any reason not to have her do this. Can anyone else?

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My paranoia would indicate that it could expose her to potential assassination/interdiction if she's just there mostly alone in what isn't exactly friendly territory right now. I can't find Rita's stats right now for some reason but eh.

 

[OneirosTheWriter]

@Macchiato will explain more in a bit, but quick heads up that changes have been made to the River Docks repairs action and the Billfarthing Shipyard action to better reflect Juan's visit to Carlisle.

 

[Macchiato]

I considered it but flavor wise, even if they all count as infrastructure projects for upgrade and the bridge is quite efficient cost wise if we just care about advancing to level 2, the bridge is IMHO far less important than roads, granaries, courier system, and the docks upgrades. Furthermore, Read the Manual research would appear to continue to benefit only the core infrastructure projects but not the bridge unless I read it wrong.

@OneirosTheWriter Can you weigh in here? Do we actually just care about reaching Level 2 no matter how we do it, or will the specific options picked actually matter in terms of turn interrupts/random events, and so on? And did I read it right that "Read the Manual" only applies to Roadworks Next Twenty Leagues and not ...And Get It Over With?

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If you continue to disregard my presence as co-creator and contributor to this quest, there will be issues ^-^.

Read The Manual is an option as applied depending on the House specified. It happened to be that House Carlisle was selected first, thus impacting on infrastructure-related items this time around, particularly as they relate to trade and maritime matters. This will not always be the case, mostly depending on the expertise of the House. Also, it's relevant to the bridge although the impact won't be as strong as it is with some of the o thers.

Apologies for the delay @FriedIce, I know Oneiros has been promising for most of the day. I thought I'd have time to put the post together properly while at work but a few things have exploded here and I co-run a department so... logical conclusion. I'm hoping to get some answers up for you soon, although I suspect I'll miss the question you've put up in your plan and have to edit an answer in.

 

[Chaeronea]

@Macchiato Is the fostering option with Tarrant and Sonissimmo only available this turn? Or will it be available next turn as well?

 

[Macchiato]

@Macchiato Is the fostering option with Tarrant and Sonissimmo only available this turn? Or will it be available next turn as well?

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I mention it in the monster reply I'm putting together but yes, fostering will be available next turn.

 

[Macchiato]

Sorry for the double post, didn't seem fair to pile this into my previous post.

That and I'm hugely pissed off at them killing one of the few elite songweavers that Sartier has access to.
If we go severe on Dale we should probably go severe on Vincennes as well, because holy shit they were asking for it. Actively promoting Teuvian interests in Sartier? Fuck that shit. It'll also have the advantage of pacifying the Capo slightly about how we're having a go at their vassals.

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Okay, I just want to clarify something here. Are you saying that because they killed an Elite Songweaver, they should get extra special punishment? Are Elite Songweavers considered a special status of citizen then? If you harm a hair on their head, all hell will descend upon you blah blah blah.

So what about training the to be a vet songweaver and start evelyn to start on elite training

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It would take 2 turns for Evelyn to transition from Veteran to Elite.

I feel like one agent can handle these two together. Oneiros?

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Yes, that's fine.

Recruit her now, then use her next turn on Gods in Small Places? We're hard up for relevant agents and we saw how good she is in combat.

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I'll just point out that it's to your benefit (and @FriedIce and anyone else who's considering this) to review her profile and any written portions including her to make really really sure you know what you're getting into and that you're comfortable with it. That's really the case for anyone, actually, but yeah. I seem to recall people being gun shy about her being a Sadist and some other stuff...

Seems reasonable but will she need a guard with her? I don't think we can spare Evelyn this turn to train, but if she did would she also have a chance at getting Naval Songweaver?

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No guard needed. And yes, there is a chance that she would but no guarantee.

Possibility of combination with the Putting Yourself in their Shoes actions? Depends how many diplomacy actions we can spare. We should really do that for the final Sonissimmo action though.

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Yes, if you're so inclined, you can combine.

We should do this this turn, but I'm not sure we can afford it if we want to deal with Dale/Vincennes for good. @OneirosTheWriter @macchito do Evelyn/our other diplomatic councillors feel that it can hold a turn if we need it to?

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Yes, although they'll probably recommend you communicate accordingly with relevant parties so they don't take insult from it.

Hmm, might this possibly synergise with the our buddy Alice coming down to see us? Worth pushing forward just for that?

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It's possible that Alice may bring additional possibilities with her, but I freely admit to not having thought that far down the track yet, as it will depend on how her trip goes.

We should avoid doing this till we have some influence spare so we can spend 2 influence and turn it into a 1 turn action, though I confess to being curious as to what happens if we spend three influence on it, does it become an agent free action? @OneirosTheWriter

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Yes, if you spend three influence, it becomes an agent free action. The Minor Houses would take on the project fully.

This is a good idea which we should do. This turn. @OneirosTheWriter is the 20k gold in addition to the 4k a turn?

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Yes, so you'd be looking at 24k gold spend for this turn.

Did we actually get anything from this last turn? I don't notice any improvement, frankly I'm unimpressed.

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In part, the benefits you'll get from Read the Manual are dependent on who you're going to learn from and what their area(s) of focus are. In this case, Carlisle helps you with Trade and Port-related infrastructure, so the repairs to river docks will bring much bigger bonuses to the table, and the Billfarthing shipbuilding expansion should also improve. Basically, you'll see benefit in anything that counts as an infrastructure project.

We should do one of these, I'm inclined to give the job to Charlie Tellar, though if we have an intrigue specced agent free we should definitely use them for it instead. @OneirosTheWriter can we combine these two options into one task for an agent if we do assign one?

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Yup, that makes sense. The proximity's relatively close so that would work.

tl;dr even Capo we're related to are huge dicks, who the fuck keeps something this serious secret?
Perhaps we should outlaw Teuvian worship...

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A Capo? House loyalty's a bigger thing with some Houses more than others, and I would expect that they tapped into that, even despite the fact she's a Tellar now.

Don't think we need this this turn, though agents are delicious. Not sure if this means agent for the court or simply a guy in a foreign court that we've turned...

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A guy in a foreign court that we've turned.

Do we suspect any spies in court? I mean we have an intrigue action that went on last turn and we know there's a missionary active in Harper...

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There is? >.> Who's that? <.<

@OneirosTheWriter, I thought it was one automatic magic research project a year? Have we crossed over a year for these purposes?

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Nope, you can fund as many magic research projects as pleases you and your budget.

If we pick to have Rita go do we still need to send an agent on the trip?

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Nope.

Alice is arriving! Yay! Will this be negatively (or perhaps positively) impacted if we're with the Royal Navy learning to seaweave like a boss? Possible synergy is enticing...
How long is she staying, come to think of it.

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Depends on how the visit goes...

We do need to replace our lost elite songweaver... Not sure we can spare Evelyn from diplomacy this turn though. On the other hand, the prospect of Seaweaving is delicious...

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What the hell, we'd probably let you get away with assigning Evelyn to a greater Etela-based action if you wanted to combine them...

In response to your question, we'll accept stunts but request that they be put in the Writing Thread and labelled accordingly so we can source it as needed. Like most other writing things, happy to answer questions in thread or via PM regarding how something may or may not work. Also, I wanted to take a moment to say thanks for attempting to tag me in your analysis, even though the spelling of my username didn't quite work out for you xD Points for effort :3

 

[OneirosTheWriter]

Wooo! Influence increase!

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In case this went unnoticed in the results post, the influence increase is from Luna

Losing an agent for two turns is painful, but we should get around to doing this at some point as part of Plan: Create Our Own Navy With Blackjack And Hookers.

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Hmm, actually, I probably do need to put together a Naval warfare overview at some point. Also, I need to come up with much better names for my ship categories, they're ... actually kinda nonsensical atm...

Edit: Figured out new names for the ship-classes, musical ones, too, woo. Working on a navy overview post now.

 

[veekie]

Okay, I just want to clarify something here. Are you saying that because they killed an Elite Songweaver, they should get extra special punishment? Are Elite Songweavers considered a special status of citizen then? If you harm a hair on their head, all hell will descend upon you blah blah blah.

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Not that, but that they went directly against what their order stands for, and wrought great harm to all.

Utterly disgraceful.

 

[Macchiato]

Not that, but that they went directly against what their order stands for, and wrought great harm to all.

Utterly disgraceful.

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I think FriedIce may disagree with you on that one

Colour me interested/amused at his anger at the perceived idiocy of the Dalish and Vincennes. We pretty much designed them like this

 

[FriedIce]

Okay, I just want to clarify something here. Are you saying that because they killed an Elite Songweaver, they should get extra special punishment? Are Elite Songweavers considered a special status of citizen then? If you harm a hair on their head, all hell will descend upon you blah blah blah.

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I'll be honest, I'm considering Elite Songweavers in a similar way to how Britain considered nuclear engineers capable of building the bomb back in the late 40s/early 50s. Not special in and of themselves, but still a national resource and if one of them died in a bar fight with a drunk farmer you can bet the authorities would have been pissed.

In case this went unnoticed in the results post, the influence increase is from Luna

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I could be misremembering but didn't we also get an influence increase from including Hamid on the Council? I seem to remember he had a statesman trait?

Colour me interested/amused at his anger at the perceived idiocy of the Dalish and Vincennes. We pretty much designed them like this

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Mostly I'm irritated because I understand exactly how these sort of conflicts work, but also because its so unnecessary. Kudos to you though, its basically Israel/Palestine on a webforum for us to deal with.

 

[OneirosTheWriter]

I could be misremembering but didn't we also get an influence increase from including Hamid on the Council? I seem to remember he had a statesman trait?

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Anyone who is part of your Court who has Statesman or Venerated Statesman trait adds +1 or +2 Influence. Adding Hamid effectively paid for his own Agent upkeep when he was picked. You also get a few free influence points for being a Great House, and another couple for being Tellar.

At the moment, you have two prospects for gaining another Influence point, Luna Reynolds and Andres Tellar (whose DIplomacy isn't quite good enough to get him there), who have the trait Nascent Statesman, which is the first step.

Outside of that, your two best prospects in the 41-person Court at Harper is Janie Tellar (a sneaky one, as mentioned in the action), and a Courtier named Lea Tsu, from one of your Minor Houses, who went to the War College Summit with Evelyn and Co.


Becoming a Statesman is part-narrative, part-stats. Basically, get in the right zone, then do something noteworthy.

 

[Imrix]

I feel like the most practical way to solve the Vinciennes/Dale conflict is as soon as this current event is handled, we leverage our position of rulership to just say "no, this shit stops now. I don't care who is at fault, or who the villain is, or whatever. It stops now."

I'm not sure what kind of penalties to hang on that, but my maximum is probably, "the next one of you to fail to live up to the unity and dignity of a house of Sartier will cease to be a house of Sartier." Like, if it comes to it, strip the Vinciennes nobility of their titles and either absorb their territories ourselves, or hand them over to Dale for that extra string. This kind of thing has to be pulled up by the roots.

 

[veekie]

Going too heavy handed probably means losing their loyalty entirely however. We can punish, but they need to know that they have a spot at the table, or they'd go to another table.

 

[Imrix]

Going too heavy handed probably means losing their loyalty entirely however. We can punish, but they need to know that they have a spot at the table, or they'd go to another table.

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I honestly don't see how that would change much. I mean we don't know what the Dalish situation is like from an internal Capo viewpoint, but look at Vinciennes and tell me they're acting like a loyal house. The country is facing war with the largest foreign power we know of, and they're wasting everybodies time and effort on internal squabbles for reasons nobody even remembers anymore.

They don't even bring all that much to our table; all their traits are militaristic when Tellar is already great at military power.

Plus, 'go to another table'? What other table? Tuev? Tuev is already infiltrating them to the point of controlling highly-placed nobility, Vinciennes needs housecleaning whatever we do.

 

[veekie]

Currently they're preoccupied with their internal interests over their own interests...but they COULD go from dubiously loyal to hostile if pressed hard enough, and we got enough enemies without manufacturing our own at home.

 

[FriedIce]

Hmm, could we get away with purging Vinciennes on the excuse that their Vice-Marshal was a Teuvian agent so how far does the corruption go?

Because, jesus christ, their vice-marshal was a Teuvian agent. That's like if it was discovered that the British Secretary of Defence was a Russian spy during the cold war. It should have huge impacts.

 

[Spectrum]

If you continue to disregard my presence as co-creator and contributor to this quest, there will be issues ^-^.

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Sorry, sorry!

I'll just point out that it's to your benefit (and FriedIce and anyone else who's considering this) to review her profile and any written portions including her to make really really sure you know what you're getting into and that you're comfortable with it. That's really the case for anyone, actually, but yeah. I seem to recall people being gun shy about her being a Sadist and some other stuff...

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Oh, that's fair. Hmm. Well, *I* don't care about Sadist on an Intrigue agent but I'll go take another look.

No guard needed. And yes, there is a chance that she would but no guarantee.

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HMMM.

@Macchiato @OneirosTheWriter
Would it also be possible to combine:
Foster Care - Exchanges of young nobles between Houses is an old and time-honoured tradition. It helps bring new knowledge in, spreads familiarity, and builds lasting friendships. Perhaps exchanging youths can help solidify thawing relationships?
(Pick one or two of the following, same agent can handle both, 1 Influence only)
[Automatic Success for search, candidates to be presented in the mid-turn post, Diplomatic test depending on who is asked for and offered]
[ ] - Approach House Tarrant to negotiate possible fosterings.
[ ] - Approach House Sonissimmo to look into possible fosterings.
+
Hello, Sailor - Rita Hulland got to see the Royal Navy's special Songweavers in action over the summer, and she would love to get a chance to learn some of their techniques. She feels having a few of them on hand for Tellar and her vassals would help with coming battles against the Tranquility pirates. [Both of the below options entail a 30% Base Chance diplomacy test Evelyn will undertake as a Free Action to gain access]
-[ ] Have Rita travel herself to Sonissimmo to attempt to learn these skills. [20% base chance, Magic Test, 2 turns, Rita Hulland gains trait Naval Songweaver]
+
[ ] - Preparing to Take the Next Step - Truly elite Songweavers are few and far between. Tellar is blessed to have two in their court: Monica Reynolds, and your mother, Rita. You would like to add a third: yourself. But it is a long and arduous road to the top. You would like to ask your mother to help prepare you for the challenges of reaching the true heights of the Songweaving craft. [50% base chance, starts the path of upgrading from Veteran Songweaver to Elite Songweaver] (Note: if Rita takes the Naval Songweaving action, Evelyn will travel with her to Etela)
+
(Free Action) [ ] - Patching Up - You've taken the first steps towards towards mending your own fractured relationship with your old friend Hana Sonissimmo. Perhaps you can continue to pursue that course of action? [???% base chance, 0g, 1 turn, ??? results]

to send both Rita and Evelyn together to Etela and not have the fostering request cut into Evelyn's training time?

---

Also, can I request a reminder on what stats Justice actions key off of, explicitly? I think it's Intrigue?
And the relevant Councilor Bonus appears to be also just their stat/3, if I look at the numbers accurately? (Along with any trait bonuses?)

 

[veekie]

Hmm, could we get away with purging Vinciennes on the excuse that their Vice-Marshal was a Teuvian agent so how far does the corruption go?

Because, jesus christ, their vice-marshal was a Teuvian agent. That's like if it was discovered that the British Secretary of Defence was a Russian spy during the cold war. It should have huge impacts.

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I suspect, if we had sufficiently solid proof, they'd help with the purge

 

[Spectrum]

Hmm, could we get away with purging Vinciennes on the excuse that their Vice-Marshal was a Teuvian agent so how far does the corruption go?

Because, jesus christ, their vice-marshal was a Teuvian agent. That's like if it was discovered that the British Secretary of Defence was a Russian spy during the cold war. It should have huge impacts.

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I suspect, if we had sufficiently solid proof, they'd help with the purge

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Well, they're all nobs. It's more like if the Earl of Kent was a French agent or something of that nature (...Vice Earl insofar as that's not a thing, but you get what I mean to extend the comparison).

Either way, I don't think you can purge an entire friggin' Vassal House just on that alone. It's a starting point to have them looked at, but remember they're also Tellar's vassals, so it looks bad if you have to blatantly cut away that much. I don't think we actually really want other houses "helping" with the purge (especially any excuse for Dale) because they'll cut away a bunch of Vincennes loyalists in the process just to kick them while they're down and weaken us as a whole.

Mostly I'm irritated because I understand exactly how these sort of conflicts work, but also because its so unnecessary. Kudos to you though, its basically Israel/Palestine on a webforum for us to deal with.

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*cough*

Vincennes

Cons:
A Plague On Both Your Houses- The Houses of Dale and Vincennes have been feuding since time immemorial. The cross-border raiding is constant, and when relations are particularly bad, may look more like open war than a vendetta. [House Dale and House Vincennes start with terrible relations. Battles and assassination attempts on each other will be frequent until someone can patch up the ancient disputes, and may drag in others] *NB Patching up this dispute will be like patching up the West Bank, the locals will sabotage you at every corner.
Missionary Efforts- Like their hated foes in Capo lands, Teuvian influences lurk in the fringes of the mist. For all they are few, their words are insidious and reach even the halls of the powerful. If nothing is done to check their influence soon, a vendetta between houses may become the least of your worries. [Piety increase to characters, increase starting Teuv Influence]

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[OneirosTheWriter]

(If you feel this doesn't properly explain things to you, feel free to ask questions and I'll do my best to clarify)

The Sea and You: Naval Strategy in Sartier

The World Around You
In Sartier and the surrounding nations, the bulk of shipping moves in the form of galleys, ships propelled primarily by oars. Because the seas between the large landmasses are littered with small islands, it is very easy for such ships to travel by day and pull ashore at night to encamp, or wait out storms. Sailing with the winds is less common, partly because of how well this system of sailing works for the local inhabitants.

The major seafaring powers in your neck of the woods are Khironex, a matriarchy dedicated to the seas, with whom Evelyn used to foster, and the Memphrabi, who are the largest kingdom after the Teuv. The Kabilee have respectable fleets. Sartier has a fairly unimpressive array of ships in the main, except with a crown jewel of thirty of the most powerful ships in the known world. Renmi has very little in the way of warships, although they have many trade vessels that play the seas, hiding from anything dangerous looking. The wildcard is Tranquillity, which is not so much a seafaring power as a seafaring pustule that sits between the other nations and Teuv; a shattered pit of anarchy that lives to build ships, crew them with the desperate and daring, and then vomit them forth into the world.

The Basics
Warships are almost exclusively in the form of Triremes, with only a few larger vessels in use with Memphrabi and the land of Teuv. These ships have very good buoyancy, so can survive considerable flooding. Battles typically follow the pattern of exchanges of arrow fire to soften opposing crews up, then closing to board or ram. Ramming is a devastating attack, and one of the few ways of making a ship flounder. Outside of the complications caused by powerful magic practitioners, naval battle typically consists of a few rounds of exchanging fire and jockeying for position. Often if a decisive positioning advantage cannot be achieved, one side will break off rather than risk their ships in a slugging match.

The Anatomy
Ships differ in the main in terms of the quality of their construction, the quality of their rowers, and the quality of their marines. For now I'm going to spare you the nitty gritty of the mechanics behind the scene and give you the brief overview. Each ship type has a value for:

Hit Points/Toughness of their hull (which is also used to derive how much flooding they can withstand), for determining resistance to ramming, magic, or artillery attacks.
Speed/agility dice pool (which is partly crew quality, partly ship quality), which is used when determining if a flotilla can accomplish what they want to achieve.
A ramming attack dice pool, used if you successfully ram someone
Crew type (usually split into tougher marine complement and weaker rowers, though Tranquillity considers crews all as one mass).

Some ships will also have a few more esoteric effects, such as having additional magic resistance built into the ship, or even the ability to empower magic users. Because in Memphrabi, maritime matters are seen as a men's sphere of influence, and magic is seen as a women's sphere of influence, ships from there often mount ballista-like artillery pieces to make up for the lack of magical support. However, it is a big lack that they have to make up for.

Magic and Things Exploding
When used properly, magic can turn the whole naval battlefield on its head. In Sartier, Songweavers play the part of magical support well enough, and the Royal Navy trains their own Naval Songweavers with special skill-sets. But for the rest of the world, the majority of sea-going magic comes from a very risky set of practitioners known as Sea Witches. Because Sea Witches draw heavily and directly from the ley lines of the ocean in a fairly crude manner, it is a perilous skill to use in combat, and many Sea Witches come to grief if their spells backfire, unlike the fail-safe songs of the Songweavers. However, still they use their skills, because being able to crash magically charged waves into your enemies is a very handy trick.

However, even Songweavers who are not experts can unleash devastating power.

Spoiler: Rita Hulland getting her groove on

From the Naval Battle at Cape Sous, Year 1 Summer, House Hulland + Royal Navy v Tranquillity:

Rita Hulland casts Symphony of Tornado on Pirate # 1
Casting Dice 7d20, Need 55+ = 58, success
Rita WR: 7d20h3+d14 = 65 (11) - 5 (Corsair MR) = 60
Pirate # 1 Hp9/T14 v 60 = 4 Hp, each side.
Bow 5/9, Port 5/9, Star'd 5/9, Aft 5/9
Pirate # 1 Armour reduced from 2d16h1 to d16.
Vs Crew (Full Area): 60 - d16 (2) - (10/2=5) = 53 / 2 (Ship) = 26 / 200 = 174
> 10% Casualties, Cohesion Roll: 45+ => 95, pass!

Next turn:
Rita casts Symphony of Typhoon on Pirate # 1, 2, 3, 4
Casting Dice 7d20, Need 55 = 86, success
Rita Wound Roll: 7d20h2+d14 = 36 (2)
v Corsair d16 = T14 v 36 -5 = 31 = 2 Hp, all sides
v Warship 2d12 (Majority) T12, 3 Hp, all sides
Pirate # 1, Bow 3/9, Port 3/9, Star'd 3/9, Aft 3/9 = Armour Halved to d8, all sides
Pirate # 2, Bow 5/8, Port 5/8, Star'd 0/8, Aft 5/8 = Starboard Armour Wiped out, Armour reduced to d12, crew damage doubled, +4 Flooding!
Pirate # 3, Bow 5/8, Port 5/8, Star'd 2/8, Aft 5/8 = Immobilised
Pirate # 4, Bow 5/8, Port 5/8, Star'd 5/8, Aft 5/8 = Armour Reduced to d12
v Crew Corsair d8 = 36 - d8 (3) - 5 - 5 = 23 / 2 (Ship) = 12 / 165 = 153
v Crew Warship d0 = 36 - 5 = 31 / 178 = 147
v Crew Warship d12 = 36 - d12 (5) - 5 = 26 / 2 = 13 * 2 (2 Ships) = 26 / 374 = 348

Something to note, the Wound Roll for a normal Songweaver's offensive mainstay, the Song of Shock, is 3d20h2+d(Magic Bonus)
Also, Symphony of Tornado is a single-target, very high damage.
Symphony of Typhoon is moderate damage, but very wide-ranging. In this case, it hit half a fleet.

Sartier's Fleets
The people of Sartier typically rely on three categories of trireme: Royals, Oboes, and Flutes. Minor Houses up till now base their fleets entirely around the Flute type, which are cheap and easily made, costing 500 gold crowns to build, and a mere 125 per half-year to maintain and crew. They use militia-quality marines, and levy-quality rowers. The Major Houses (the three Great Houses and eight Vassal Houses) build and operate Oboes, which cost 1,000 g to build, and 250g per half-year. Their crews are standing soldiers, and their rowers are militia-quality, spending considerable time at sea. These ships are imbued with some magical resistance in their hulls, and have sturdier hulls and more powerful ramming attacks. The Royal Navy, however, uses warships that are superior to anything else in the water. Costing an eye-watering 2,000g to build, and 500g to maintain per 6-months, Royals use crews that are fully professional, their hull is steeped in the song-magic of Sartier such that it not only protects but aids casting, and their ramming attack is devastating. These ships can only be crafted in the Balan Arsenal in Etela.

The Royal Navy is the single largest fleet in Sartier, boasting thirty ships, which sail in Task Forces, seeking out the enemy. About seventy Oboes are maintained across Sartier, and 108 Flutes.

In Comparison to Others
Compared to the pirates of Tranquillity, the Flutes and Oboes sit in-between the different grades of ships. Their mainstay ship type, however, is mid-way between the Flute and Oboe in quality. As a result, Minor House fleets are typically used to patrol for and detect pirate fleets, rather than fight them. Depending on fleet sizes, a force made of Oboes stands a good chance with more equal-sized pirate fleets, but should be careful to try avoid over-committing in bad circumstances. Royals, however are a match for any ship, even the flagships of the Pirate Lords.

Evelyn is very familiar with Khironex ships, and is of the opinion that the Oboes are a more-or-less equivalent match for the mainstay ship of that fleet. However, the Khironex do have a lot of more powerful ships as well, and the Bell Trireme Unbreakable that Alice Ruger currently uses as a flagship would crush an Oboe toe-to-toe. She is not very familiar with Memphrabi ships however.

Of what Teuv can bring to the seas, little is properly remembered in Sartier, though in Memphrabi and Khironex the memory apparently remains. Perhaps Alice can share?

​

(Take the various sea-power research actions and I'll start to unravel the mechanics, if people are interested)