It didn't ruin anything. I just find it weird. I picture him as a serious old man like his interactions with Itachi.

I get that.
I remember Hiruzen as we see him in early canon, which is mostly with Naruto. The playful old man that acts a bit like a grandfather. They only get Wave because he's playful with Naruto.

And I feel like that's gonna reflect in how I write him. If that's not wholly accurate... well it's funnier this way, and I have a logical framework for it so, I'm happy. Also he fuckin dies super early in so it's not like there's a thousand canon examples to say I'm wrong.
Sarutobi has always struck me as someone who shifts his face depending on the person and the context of the interaction.
He also sucks a little at his jub due to this because Danzo is a super blindspot, same with Orochimaru. Ironically if he was some stotic old man all the time the village would probably have been better off, but him being a flawed human is better in my opinion.
 
I really want to blame Sarutobi for the whole Naruto situation and the trouble plaguing Konoha but it's just Early-Installment Weirdness. At the beginning a lot of the backstory simply didn't exist yet and only by looking back later we notice how flawed some of it was. But taken in-universe, Sarutobi at least makes sense, unlike some other examples.
 
I really want to blame Sarutobi for the whole Naruto situation and the trouble plaguing Konoha but it's just Early-Installment Weirdness. At the beginning a lot of the backstory simply didn't exist yet and only by looking back later we notice how flawed some of it was. But taken in-universe, Sarutobi at least makes sense, unlike some other examples.
Yeah, although even in the pre timeskip era he was kinda bad for having a kid live alone without an adult.
 
Yeah, although even in the pre timeskip era he was kinda bad for having a kid live alone without an adult.
I tend to attribute that to it being hard to find an adult who both doesn't hold a grudge (they may know that he isn't the Kyuubi but given how many people lost friends or family to him some amount of anger at the only one around to vent at makes sense). Add in that if the person is too high profile you risk someone learning who his father is when at least 1 entire nation wants anyone tied to Minato deader than dead and it's a hard sell.

Finally, consider that he wanted to retire and would be retired if his successor hadn't died and the other potential hadn't gone traitorous in the meantime. Hiruzen is an old man and it shows.
 
Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't he also lose his wife during the destruction of the village? So he was a retired, griefing, old man who was suddenly thrust into his old job again, having to deal with the aftermath of a disaster and having basically no one to support him emotionally. To me it makes sense that he made mistakes under these circumstances.

In many fics he has ANBU watch over Naruto, so while the boy doesn't have any family, he's still somewhat protected. Considering that he's a strategic asset of the village, having a protection detail makes sense.

That also explains why his parent's friends didn't adopt him. They were all part of various clans and giving one of them control over a superweapon would screw with the balance of power in the village. It was probably easier from a politicial POV to have Naruto live by himself. That way no one could influence him. It just backfired because it was a half-assed solution since it didn't take the civilian population into account.

Honestly, there isn't any good solution. Adopting Naruto ruins the political balance of the village, which is a reasonable to fear to have after the Uchiha attempted a coup because of similar concerns. Giving him any obvious preferential treatment draws attention to him, which would most likely result in assassination attempts from Minato's old enemies. Having him live with a civilian family would leave him nearly defenseless and perhaps convince him not to become a ninja.

This also explains Danzo's perspective: Inducting Naruto into ROOT would give him protection, training and keep him loyal to the village. He'd simply vanish from the public and would only make appearance when necessary. Sure, it would basically kill Naruto's personality but if you consider ninja to be mere tools... it's a better alternative than letting him fend for himself.

So while Hiruzen definitely fucked up... do we really have a solution that's much better?
 
especially if you keep the ability to absorb skill books or near instantly learn magic/jutsus from scrolls.
There is no keep. This isn't a Gamer fic.
There's nothing to keep it from. Remove Gamer from your mind, it was bad, I didn't like it, this is based off litrpg basics and video games. I only read like 50 chapters and I've taken almost nothing of inspiration from those 50 chapters.
Any similarities, at all, are because most of what the Gamer did was _the same thing I'm doing._ Come up with a Litrpg system and base it off video games.
The rest of the genre got altered by it and I've taken inspiration from the rest of the genre as well. Building blocks my man, building blocks.
Not direct take.

That being said, no I'd like for her to actually read the damn book. Why give her a studying skill and such high mind if she can't read?

Anyway, in actual response.
Yeah when I said patch I explicitly meant buff Sakura.
I have zero intentions of Nerfing Naruto.
The boy's too dumb to nerf, without clones and Kyuubi and half the higher level ninja force looking out for him he would never have been a successful ninja.

As for the team triangle, yeah, of course I did. I play MMOs too. In combat I've no worry about Naruto outpacing her 100x, the "clone spam learn the same technique" thing actually wouldn't work for a few logistic reasons, so he'll never learn combat skills faster than her.
I'm just worried about when he creates a village at random one day and Sakura's like "I like sword!"

She is dragging karin home from the chunnin exam's.
Well see, now that you said that I gotta change my plans.
How dare you.
This is a joke. Or is it?

In many fics he has ANBU watch over Naruto, so while the boy doesn't have any family, he's still somewhat protected. Considering that he's a strategic asset of the village, having a protection detail makes sense.
This is and has always been canon to the story.
Sarutobi's actions just don't make any sense otherwise.
 
So while Hiruzen definitely fucked up... do we really have a solution that's much better?
New orphanage. Special Jonin appointed as caretaker, pad the staff with ANBU minders in disguise. This draws attention from Naruto by making him one of many, lets you steer him towards Ninja work, keeps him away from misinformed civilians, and puts him firmly into the administration's pocket. It's all the benefits of Danzo's ROOT plan, but without the overt brainwashing and lack of childhood.
 
New orphanage. Special Jonin appointed as caretaker, pad the staff with ANBU minders in disguise. This draws attention from Naruto by making him one of many, lets you steer him towards Ninja work, keeps him away from misinformed civilians, and puts him firmly into the administration's pocket. It's all the benefits of Danzo's ROOT plan, but without the overt brainwashing and lack of childhood.
I think a good example of the idea about Naruto is best used via covid, 2020-2021, not post vaccine.
Almost everyone saw people die. I won't get into the politics of it, but I can say with certainty that one way or another almost everyone agrees it was handled badly and the public were, odd, about it.

Now imagine we got rid of covid, suddenly, we just stuck it in a small child and told everyone not to talk about it anymore.
"We killed it, it's done!"
But you know it's not done, the small child has it, it's inside him.
Lurking, insideously.
Inside that small child contains the modern day version of the fucking plague.
Knowing how it all turned out, seeing the division and the fights and the deaths and just the whole spin and crazy of it all.

Would you trust, literally anyone, to watch that fucking child?
 
To be fair, Naruto can only learn things the hard way per clone. If he does use Chakra and Jutsus to make parts of the task easier, he can have supernatural proficiency with it, but he has to actively develop those like everyone else in the Shinobi World.

With the Gamer system, Sakura can not only develop certain skill sets supernaturally fast, it has the potential to develop them to a supernatural level that, as Todd Howard says, Just Works.

This system lacks perks, so she won't have anything like that, but I could easily see a maxed out Studying or Gaming skill letting her do impossible things without the use of Chakra.

She could be an 800 APM Pro-Zerg player or pull off a Johnny 5 potentially.
 
To be fair, Naruto can only learn things the hard way per clone. If he does use Chakra and Jutsus to make parts of the task easier, he can have supernatural proficiency with it, but he has to actively develop those like everyone else in the Shinobi World.

With the Gamer system, Sakura can not only develop certain skill sets supernaturally fast, it has the potential to develop them to a supernatural level that, as Todd Howard says, Just Works.

This system lacks perks, so she won't have anything like that, but I could easily see a maxed out Studying or Gaming skill letting her do impossible things without the use of Chakra.

She could be an 800 APM Pro-Zerg player or pull off a Johnny 5 potentially.
So, because it's not gamer, and I didn't read gamer very much, I'm not actually sure what you mean by "perks."
But Traits somewhat take the place of a modern day perk system if you mean like in fallout. Which is actually what I've been considering it like.
 
So, because it's not gamer, and I didn't read gamer very much, I'm not actually sure what you mean by "perks."
But Traits somewhat take the place of a modern day perk system if you mean like in fallout. Which is actually what I've been considering it like.

I do mean like Fallout/Skyrim perks! I tend to refer to all litRPG systems as gamer systems since the first time I saw the concept was the Gamer, so apologies for any confusion there. Almost every system from fanfic to the litRPG series themselves tend to have their own quirks, so I don't expect them all to be the same, but there is a trend of using perks, skills, and so on. The Gamer Manwha's system doesn't have Perks explicitly, but some of the skills that are awarded already maxed out essentially act as Perks unlocked when a prerequisite was met rather than a pure skill to be leveled, and tons of gamer fics, even the ones based off the manwha more directly, have a perk system separate from skills to account for that.

The Traits system does function like Perks with the new positive unlocks she gets, but it's also like Fallout Traits due to having a few similar to stuff like "Good-Natured", "Small Frame", etc. I'm unsure if you plan on having it shake out that if Sakura maxing out a skill will give her a coresponding trait related to the skill, but if you do decide to go in that direction, that just furthers my original point.
 
Anyway, in actual response.
Yeah when I said patch I explicitly meant buff Sakura.
I have zero intentions of Nerfing Naruto.
The boy's too dumb to nerf, without clones and Kyuubi and half the higher level ninja force looking out for him he would never have been a successful ninja.
Sucks to be Sasuke I guess.
Also the rest of the konoha 12.
And every other ninja who doesn't have access to a high-end cheat ability or the backing of a physical god.
 
Sucks to be Sasuke I guess.
Also the rest of the konoha 12.
And every other ninja who doesn't have access to a high-end cheat ability or the backing of a physical god.
Sasuke's entire bloodline is a high-end cheat ability and backing of a physical god.
Everyone else? Fuck em.
I do mean like Fallout/Skyrim perks! I tend to refer to all litRPG systems as gamer systems since the first time I saw the concept was the Gamer, so apologies for any confusion there. Almost every system from fanfic to the litRPG series themselves tend to have their own quirks, so I don't expect them all to be the same, but there is a trend of using perks, skills, and so on. The Gamer Manwha's system doesn't have Perks explicitly, but some of the skills that are awarded already maxed out essentially act as Perks unlocked when a prerequisite was met rather than a pure skill to be leveled, and tons of gamer fics, even the ones based off the manwha more directly, have a perk system separate from skills to account for that.

The Traits system does function like Perks with the new positive unlocks she gets, but it's also like Fallout Traits due to having a few similar to stuff like "Good-Natured", "Small Frame", etc. I'm unsure if you plan on having it shake out that if Sakura maxing out a skill will give her a coresponding trait related to the skill, but if you do decide to go in that direction, that just furthers my original point.
So how it works is that Skills are equivalent. They gain levels, they can mutate, they reflect a certain amount of "skill"
Sakura with Lvl 5 Sword and Ino with Lvl 5 Sword, are roughly equivalent in every way.

Traits, are unique to the person.
Sakura with "Resting Bitch Face"
And Ino with "Resting Bitch Face"
Would have very different effects.

Ino's would likely get her discounts and managers might deal with her directly.
She'd get all Karen'd out.
And Sakura would likely just scare the shit out of people.

How I've been doing traits is that I haven't, because the story updates 3 times a week(3rd is on Patreon) and I have to pay off bills and debt and all that so I just haven't had the damn time to really sit down and think about it.
Which sucks because I hella want to...

It's sad that the RPG part of the LitRPG is kind of an afterthought at times because I fucking love system building, just, haven't had the time to dedicate to it. It was a fairly complex system when it started, for where we were, but now CH 39 is out on Patreon and I'm pretty sure the system's needed a solid update since like CH 12.
 
There is no keep. This isn't a Gamer fic.
There's nothing to keep it from. Remove Gamer from your mind, it was bad, I didn't like it, this is based off litrpg basics and video games. I only read like 50 chapters and I've taken almost nothing of inspiration from those 50 chapters.
Any similarities, at all, are because most of what the Gamer did was _the same thing I'm doing._ Come up with a Litrpg system and base it off video games.
The rest of the genre got altered by it and I've taken inspiration from the rest of the genre as well. Building blocks my man, building blocks.
Not direct take.

Got to say, this might be one of the biggest issues with The Gamer on a meta level. Ever since it came out EVERY litRPG or videogame related story gets compared to it. And yes, I differentiate between the two, with videogame related stories tending to have systems lifted almost directly from some game or other instead of an original system. Anyway while The Gamer isn't necessarily bad, it's system is very much made to be Han Jee Hans plot armor. There are times where he makes noticeable mistakes, doing something dumb, and being rewarded for it instead of punished.

One major example is early on he notices his mana regen is bad, wants more mana regen, and knows Wisdom (his lowest stat) gives mana regen. He also has found no way to train Wisdom, it being the only stat he can't increase regularly, instead getting random points here and there when he makes good decisions. So he decides to invest some skill points into Wisdom to make his training more efficient. Good idea, right? His system thinks so, he gets +1 Wisdom for it! So what is Jee Han's response to this? Lets dump all my skill points into Intelligence (his highest stat) again! Then of course that gets him past a break point where he gets a skill that increases his mana regen , and he pretends he's so smart to invest his points counter to how he needs to for his goals. And this is just one example of that system bending over backwards to make the MC always be right.

The major issue with this? You have to either write an MC as dumb as Han Jee Han to get the best use out of a Gamer system, or you end up with a system that punishes you for being logical with choices instead of an idiot. And god forbid you try to make a different system, it will get compared to The Gamer anyway. Because for some reason everything gets compared to this one story that isn't even all that good. It's like people don't realize this is an entire genre or something.
 
The major issue with this? You have to either write an MC as dumb as Han Jee Han to get the best use out of a Gamer system, or you end up with a system that punishes you for being logical with choices instead of an idiot. And god forbid you try to make a different system, it will get compared to The Gamer anyway. Because for some reason everything gets compared to this one story that isn't even all that good. It's like people don't realize this is an entire genre or something.
Gamer systems also tend towards being a lot of work to keep track of/manage since you no longer need to know just what a character can do roughly but rather down to numeric values (you also risk increased stats meaning either too little or too much) which doesn't help.
 
Got to say, this might be one of the biggest issues with The Gamer on a meta level. Ever since it came out EVERY litRPG or videogame related story gets compared to it. And yes, I differentiate between the two, with videogame related stories tending to have systems lifted almost directly from some game or other instead of an original system. Anyway while The Gamer isn't necessarily bad, it's system is very much made to be Han Jee Hans plot armor. There are times where he makes noticeable mistakes, doing something dumb, and being rewarded for it instead of punished.

One major example is early on he notices his mana regen is bad, wants more mana regen, and knows Wisdom (his lowest stat) gives mana regen. He also has found no way to train Wisdom, it being the only stat he can't increase regularly, instead getting random points here and there when he makes good decisions. So he decides to invest some skill points into Wisdom to make his training more efficient. Good idea, right? His system thinks so, he gets +1 Wisdom for it! So what is Jee Han's response to this? Lets dump all my skill points into Intelligence (his highest stat) again! Then of course that gets him past a break point where he gets a skill that increases his mana regen , and he pretends he's so smart to invest his points counter to how he needs to for his goals. And this is just one example of that system bending over backwards to make the MC always be right.

The major issue with this? You have to either write an MC as dumb as Han Jee Han to get the best use out of a Gamer system, or you end up with a system that punishes you for being logical with choices instead of an idiot. And god forbid you try to make a different system, it will get compared to The Gamer anyway. Because for some reason everything gets compared to this one story that isn't even all that good. It's like people don't realize this is an entire genre or something.
It's not that big a deal, really, it's not.
It just bothers me because I've put a lot of effort in, and took none of it from The Gamer.
And yet because I cross post this I hear, at least from somewhere, a comment about the Gamer like every week or so.
Fuck on SB I had to go "Hey guys this is off topic as fuck" after two people got into an entire page debate about the Gamer.
I didn't even really read it, I didn't find it interesting enough to read. It wasn't very good.

If I heard it once in a blue moon I'd shrug it off politely without a care. This is a fanfiction, even if I did steal it, so the fuck what? There'd be no shame in it.
But my own efforts feel very greatly diminished whenever someone compares what I've done to a system that has almost zero similarities, that I personally find very bad.
She doesn't even have points to spend! Or levels!

How the fuck you gonna compare it to Gamer when she doesn't level up!
I really don't think anyone individually is a problem, and it's not like they're rude for mentioning it.
It's okay to mention another series you like, and even compare it.
But when it's 500+ people reading each platform on 4 different platforms... I'm gonna hear it fucking constantly.
 
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It's not that big a deal, really, it's not.
It just bothers me because I've put a lot of effort in, and took none of it from The Gamer.
And yet because I cross post this I hear, at least from somewhere, a comment about the Gamer like every week or so.
Fuck on SB I had to go "Hey guys this is off topic as fuck" after two people got into an entire page debate about the Gamer.
I didn't even really read it, I didn't find it interesting enough to read. It wasn't very good.

If I heard it once in a blue moon I'd shrug it off politely without a care. This is a fanfiction, even if I did steal it, so the fuck what? There'd be no shame in it.
But my own efforts feel very greatly diminished whenever someone compares what I've done to a system that has almost zero similarities, that I personally find very bad.
She doesn't even have points to spend! Or levels!

How the fuck you gonna compare it to Gamer when she doesn't level up!
I really don't think anyone individually is a problem, and it's not like they're rude for mentioning it.
It's okay to mention another series you like, and even compare it.
But when it's 500+ people each platform on 4 different platforms... I'm gonna hear it fucking constantly.
Thats exactly what I mean when I say every litRPG gets compared to The Gamer. And I get what your saying about it not being a big deal too- it doesn't effect the story at all, it's just annoying. Thing is this is something of a personal annoyance of mine, how everything gets compared to the Gamer. As in I could easily rant on it for an hour, and as is deleted a good bit of that post to stop myself from ranting. Sorry about it being off topic, just sometimes my own annoyance at this boils over and I have to say something somewhere.
 
I don't really see the issue with the Shadow Clones learning. Its really good at picking up a shitton of miscelleneous skills, or being used to brute force trial and error, but most skills don't work like that. Doing a skill wrong a thousand times just makes you very good at doing it wrong.

Taking smithing as an example, Shadow Clones would(at the consumption of absurd amounts of metal and fuel) be a valid path to learn how to swing a forge hammer correctly and then practice until you always do it correctly, but you're not going to be able to iterate that into swordsmithing or the weird mystical swords of the setting. Shadow Clones do not generate knowledge out of thin air - it only works if its something Naruto can already do, but needs to practice until its practically usable. Thats why it works for Rasengan, he knows the full theory of it and how to do it, the rest is practicing until he gets it just right when the instructions cannot convey how to flex your chakra just right.

Sakura meanwhile can eventually just keep banging metal until she learns swordsmithing if she sticks to it long enough.
Hizashi takes over. "Sakura, if you invite another random boy to live with you without asking us, they'll be taking your room."
...hey, he said boys only.
Sakura is free to invite girls.
 
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I don't really see the issue with the Shadow Clones learning. Its really good at picking up a shitton of miscelleneous skills, or being used to brute force trial and error, but most skills don't work like that. Doing a skill wrong a thousand times just makes you very good at doing it wrong.

Taking smithing as an example, Shadow Clones would(at the consumption of absurd amounts of metal and fuel) be a valid path to learn how to swing a forge hammer correctly and then practice until you always do it correctly, but you're not going to be able to iterate that into swordsmithing or the weird mystical swords of the setting. Shadow Clones do not generate knowledge out of thin air - it only works if its something Naruto can already do, but needs to practice until its practically usable. Thats why it works for Rasengan, he knows the full theory of it and how to do it, the rest is practicing until he gets it just right when the instructions cannot convey how to flex your chakra just right.

Sakura meanwhile can eventually just keep banging metal until she learns swordsmithing if she sticks to it long enough.

...hey, he said boys only.
Sakura is free to invite girls.
That's kinda what I'm saying.

Sakura's abilities are very, very good at picking up hard skills.
There's basically nothing she couldn't focus on and become at least pretty good at within a short period.
Most of her limit is her motivation, desire, and that there's one of her.

Time is a resource she needs to spend because she doesn't have an infinite amount of it, but the spending of it is very effective.

Naruto has kind of the opposite situation.
There's so many of him that time isn't the problem at all. Nor is it motivation, desire, all of that can be fabricated in an instant for him.
His main limiter is that he's still just a dude.

He doesn't have a gaming system that's going to autocorrect his training just because he practiced enough, or give him a huge skill exp boost because he got some cool instruction or stabbed something to death.
For his clones to be an effective training method, at all, he needs to go learn the concept, figure out the methodology, and then put it into practice.

Funnily enough I feel like they'd both be remarkably more effective with each-other's power sets.
 
Sakura meanwhile can eventually just keep banging metal until she learns swordsmithing if she sticks to it long enough.
I could've sworn there were diminishing returns for restudying the basics. To say nothing of what kind of negative trait that behavior might invoke.

Personally, I find representing genius with a system to be a fascinating concept. I see parallels to the Otsutsuki and their utter, almost divine command of chakra; and though the author has deprecated any such connection, I still find it profound. Do you really need the trappings of the Ninshu when you can tap the chakra network of the world directly? If one's foundation exceeds the bounds of pure ninja art, it only follows that it should bear the pageantry of a higher influence.
 
As is.
It's really easiest to imagine the system in a single level progress bar, since things get needless once we start trying to do more. (I really need to make a proper spreadsheet, too many opportunities for mistakes via eyeballing if someone wants to create a nice template for me I'll love you long time.)

Every level in a skill is actually a pretty big deal. It's why I keep changing the name for most of them when they level up. It's not supposed to be +1 it's supposed to be huge.
Only a few skills gain generic levels, and even then I show them as ++ or whatever to separate it from the normal concept.

So let's say she just gained Level 1 in, blacksmithing sure.
To get to level 2 she has to obtain a breakthrough.

There's lots of ways to do that.
She can grind the basics of Level 1 until eventually the system goes "Alright that's enough" and gives level 2.
But that's like intentionally fighting the lowest level enemy that gives exp in an MMO. This is one of the reasons that Sakura is having trouble raising Charm, because she doesn't actually have good ways to raise Charm. She's figuring it out, but it's taking time. It's not even good monster exp, and as everyone knows, hunting monsters is like the worst fucking way to level up in the first place.

And even then, she'll then need to start grinding the basics of level 2, or she'll hit a wall pretty hard pretty quickly. I won't say she'd never level up sticking with level 1 training, but by level 3 we're talking months, not weeks, of concentrated effort. It's just a complete waste of time. She'd need to level up the training for grinding training to actually be the way to do it.

Then there's studying, learning from a teacher, watching a master do it and taking what notes down she can.
This kind of thing will get her a lot of experience. Consider this like a quest. It's a pretty good way to level up, and for early levels it's pretty much just how you do it, but... ugh? Eventually in any MMO you're kinda bored of quest exp, it's not how end game works it's how main game progression works.

Finally, there's practical use application in important or relevant scenarios.
For blacksmithing, that'd be trying to make the best gear she possibly can, using all the cutting edge techniques she's learned, so that she can use it. Or Naruto can use it, or, well it doesn't matter who.
She's doing her best, she's honing her craft, and she's doing so with a real motivation that's relevant.
This is kind of like a daily, or even a weekly in some games. You log in, you do what must be done, you log out and repeat while waiting for the next expansion. It's the best way to level alts or other classes or whatever.

What this means is that Sakura can pretty much always get better at anything if she shoves herself into it.
But the more relevant her training is, and more invested in it, the faster it'll grow. It's why her sword skill has gone up really fast, but her hand to hand basically hasn't changed despite all the spars.
 
Guh, how do you guys feel about breakpoints?

Patreon just hit CH 40.
You know when I first started this story, I wasn't expecting it to hit CH 10.
My previous biggest project ever was 69K.
It also had 56 updates.
So I'm not quite there on beating updates but some of those updates were 300 fucking words so like, fuck it.

Currently just the main story threadmarks alone on SV are 90K.

I'm pretty proud of myself.
 
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