SACQ '50 - Cheapskates Edition

[FC Error]

SACQ (sort of) returns - kinda set in the same universe as the OG, but sufficiently different that I don't need to grill NothingNow for details on the regular.

Once more unto the breach - this time, in the not!50s.

_________________​

To call the current state of the country 'disorganized' would be a disservice to the merely disorganized.

Nay, it's more like 3 countries all tussling (politely) to take over the other two; you're pretty apolitical but the freshly-minted Sylvian Federation is giving even you headaches. As if you didn't have enough already.

Newly-assigned as commanding officer of the First Federation Regimental Combat Team, you - Lieutenant Colonel Raz dei Friessen - have also been handed the duty of overseeing the development of new equipment - particularly vehicles - in lieu of a, you know, actual army R&D board.

Because those two roles are clearly compatible.

Your new command is a mess; the more established units (i.e. yet to be folded into the Federal army) scoffed at "Team Mishmash"; as every damn company had a different set of gear - or, at least, so it seemed.

Spoiler: TO&E

1st Federation RCT

Sylvia 1st Infantry Regiment
Maj. Hellsand

>1 Battalion - Motorized Infantry
>>3 Companies motorized, 1 platoon anti-armour, 1 platoon maintenance - L'Osseau G4 Truck
>2 Battalion - Motorized Infantry
>>3 Companies motorized, 1 platoon anti-armour, 1 platoon maintenance - L'Osseau G4 Truck
>3 Battalion - Foot Infantry
>>4 Companies light infantry w/ integral anti-armour
>4 Battalion - Shock Infantry
>>2 Companies mechanized infantry, 1 Company motorized, integral grenadiers - T-K M5 Halftrack
>5 Battalion - Headquarters
>>1 Company recce patrolmen, 1 Coy. support (1 platoon (field surgery), 1 platoon signals), 1 Coy. logistics

12th Königspanzer Regiment
Maj. de Ruytan

>1 Squadron - Heavy Tanks
>>36 GPz.38 Heavy tanks + maintenance company
>2 Squadron - Medium Tanks
>>27 SPz.39 Medium Tanks, 12 SPz.47 Medium tanks + maintenance company
>3 Squadron - Medium Tanks
>18 SPz.39 Medium tanks, 10 SPz.47 Medium tanks + maintenance company
>4 Squadron - Armour Recce
>30 Sanders Armoured Cars, 12 SWg.46 Scout vehicles + maintenance company

Royal Kellsford Artillery
Maj. MacAuley

>1 Battery - Towed Howitzers
>>6 L4 Thumper 175mm howitzer
>2 Battery - Towed Howitzers
>>6 L6 Thunderer 110mm howitzer
>3 Battery - Self-Propelled Guns
>>6 L7 Long Tom 150mm self-propelled guns
>4 Battery - Air Defence
>>12 L9 Birch Gun Carrier
>5 Battalion - Support & Logistics
>>1 company logistics, 1 company maintenance, 1 platoon medical

[Equipment will be expanded upon once I get my notes in order]

It made you want to grab the bottle in your desk, it really did. If nothing else, your motorized battalions were competent, and your medium tanks were capable - more so with the twenty-two Schnellpanzer 47s in their roster - presumably "acquired" from various units being dissolved - reports from the troops made it sound almost like a miracle machine.

After handing off command of the optimistically-named "RCT" to Major Hellsand for the moment, your immediate subordinate and hypercompetent sidekick, you settle down to meet the applicants for the committee and review the (many) competing missives from the government about what they want done.

Apparently, the dominant voices are calling for a fire-support vehicle; improvised arrangements, such as armoured cars with the Royal Armaments breech-loading mortar (which was, incidentally, both slightly horrifying as a concept and amusingly mis-named) and APCs with recoilless rifles had done passably during the war, and now the Staff wanted a proper vehicle dedicated to the purpose. The actual requirements were vague; the primary duty was infantry support, but supporting them against what wasn't specified. Infantry? Tanks? Fortifications? Anything and everything? You were fairly sure this was a trainwreck waiting to happen, but orders were orders. Given that you didn't have much of an RFP here, you'd need to write one.

More immediately, however, you need a team. Select 3-5.

[] Captain James Valjean, Königsmarine (Ret.) - A naval officer who spent most of the war commanding infantry after the port at Meihr was bombed out. Quite literally wrote the (new) book on fire support coordination and infantry-vehicle communication.
[] Major Kiera Hellsand, Federal Army - One sharp mind plus a sharp downturn in manpower equals this woman making a meteoric rise through the ranks. An armour specialist, particularly with medium tanks; also "Knows a guy" in the local Irizar branch.
[] Tal Zöller, Sudentor Autoworks - Corporate flunky, former Syrvanian Army liaison, and ex-infantryman. Talking with him gives you the feeling your soul is being slightly stained, but he's got contacts and can twist arms to ensure you get decent prices.
[] Kerry Pellham, Saunders Armour - According to legend, "the only honest corpie on Kellsford." Even if untrue, she's penned at least two successful light vehicle designs and is seemingly taking to management well.
[] Cornelius Markham, Highlake Defence Company - Head of the local up-and-coming small arms company in Sylvia. Has taken to periodically sending designs for everything from tanks to ships to the General Staff - and you know for a fact some of those have been kept around.
[] Master Warrant Officer Hyun, Federal Army - Originally a mercenary, who enlisted after the war. Despite general suspicion surrounding him, he's made Master Warrant in only eight years, so clearly he must have some clue what he's doing.
[] Johann G. Thale, Thale-Ketts Automotive - According to rumour, the disenchanted heir to the Thale family fortune (and company). Designer of the assault carrier your mechanized infantry make use of, and given their only mild bitching about it that's high praise.
[] 3rd Prince Roland MacAllister - There's the heir, the spare, and then this guy. Roland spent most of his adult years in the merchant marine before enlisting as a tanker in the war - if nothing else, he has a surprising degree of political sway in the new government.

 

[7734]

[x] 3rd Prince Roland MacAllister
[x] Captain James Valjean, Königsmarine (Ret.)
[x] Cornelius Markham, Highlake Defence Company
[x] Major Kiera Hellsand, Federal Army

 

[FC Error]

The Odensgulf Region

Spoiler: Map

The Odensgulf is a large bay in the northern reaches of the Borqual continent. Broadly speaking, the region encompasses the Sylvian Federation, Union of Relga, Thondar, and the Khubahn People's Republic.

The Sylvian Federation is a federal republic comprised of the former states of Königsland Alemain, the Kingdom of Hartsford, and Syrvania. Unified due to both political marriages and the increasing threat of invasion (again), the Federation is still disorganized and very much a work-in-progress.

The Union of Relga is an aggressively socialist country on the west of the gulf, bordering the Federation and Khubahn PR. In a bid to stave off civil unrest and improve the Great Leader's popularity figures, they attempted an invasion of Alemain, and were repelled only after a bloody infantry campaign and with the assistance of the Königsland's neighbours. Currently gearing up for Round Two: This Time We Aren't Starving Boogaloo.

Thondar is an avowedly-neutral mercantile republic; while their island lacks much by way of useful land or resources, they have successfully set themselves up as middlemen and, frequently, mercenaries. Occasionally described as "offensively inoffensive."

The Khubahn People's Republic, though a nominal ally of Relga, is a resource-and-population-poor nation generally too busy trying to avoid famine to provide much more than moral support. Despite their failings, they are generally noted for possessing perhaps the only truly functional socialist government on the planet, probably out of necessity more than anything.


1st Federal RCT - The Equipment

Spoiler: The Gear

To say your logistics are a mess would be an understatement. 1 and 2 Battalions of the infantry regiment make use of the Royal Armaments R1945 service rifle. It's a serviceable semi-automatic rifle with a 10-round magazine and good performance out to roughly 400 meters; though Hartsford infantry are renowned for their discipline, their individual shooting skill leaves something to be desired. Complimenting the R45 is the older vz.70 LMG; while it can share rounds with the rifle, it cannot share magazines. Transport is provided by L'Osseau G5 utility vehicles; cheap and mostly reliable.

3 Battalion, unfortunately, make do with the somewhat twitchy Rivkes-TMT rifle; notorious for its unusual two-stage trigger (instead of a more sane fire selector) and somewhat lacking accuracy, the troops nonetheless guard their zealously, considering their familiarity to be a badge of honour. Thankfully, they also make use of the vz.70, providing some commonality with 1 and 2 Battalions. Transport, however, is provided by boots. 4 Battalion is, on paper at least, the best-equipped; with Holl 875 rifles and 875.1 LMGs, their logistical concerns are relatively minimal. Unfortunately, the fact that half of the riflemen carry the Jackal SMG puts a bit of a damper on your enthusiasm. With the Thale-Ketts M5 halftrack, they're fairly mobile (at some 50km/h on road) and at least somewhat protected as they go. Though a maintenance hog, they at least mostly consume time more than materiel. Your HQ Battalion is... well, literally whatever you could beg, borrow, and steal. Jackal SMGs and Holl 875s, L'Osseau and Gabriel trucks, marginal radio coverage (signals platoon, hah) - unfucking this is probably high on the do-do list.


Your armour regiment is... mixed. 1 Squadron is saddled with the ancient Großepanzer.38 - barely resistant to 75mm from the front and carrying a stub-barrel 85mm. Because the tank gods hate 1 Sqn, they're also appallingly slow - 25 km/h on a good day, and require nearly twenty man-hours of maintenance per hour of run time.

Thankfully, 2 and 3 Squadrons are somewhat batter equipped; while the Schnellpanzer.39 is rather long in the tooth, it carries a serviceable 75mm anti-tank gun and boasts a road speed comparable to the halftracks, though suffers in the armour department - more or less any modern AT (infantry rockets included) will menace the thing from any angle. The Schnellpanzer.47, however, is both better and worse - mounting the "hugely killy" (to quote Hellsand) 90mm AT gun with its bizarre automatic loader, and with a good speed both on and off road, it pays for it with both a limited ammunition count and armour not that much better than its predecessor.

4 Squadron is the only non-Alemain unit in the regiment; formerly of the Royal Armour Reconnaissance Regiment, 4 Sqn. sports some 30 Saunders armoured cars; an even mix of the Fennec and Wolverine variants, with a pair of Graz 44 HMGs and a 90mm low-pressure gun respectively. Both sport speed in excess of 90 km/h on road, and not much less off; though naturally, they won't stand up to much beyond rifle fire.


If nothing else, your attached artillery is quite acceptable - 1 Battery sports the outdated but devestatingly powerful L4 Thumper towed howitzer, useful for removing anything up to and including mid-size cities. Their weight adn size limits their mobility notably, but most people (yourself included, for now) consider it an acceptable trade-off. 2 Battery is less impressive, but still capable - though the stabilizers and recoil dampener and such make the L6 Thunderer a bitch and a half to set up and maintain, but eerily accurate and capable of a withering rate of fire - until the gun crews start to get tired, at least.

3 Battery and their L7 Long Toms are... different. Slow, at only 35 km/h, and only carrying some 20 shells per vehicle, the L7s nonetheless at least sport an impressively robust "semi-autoloader" - loading shells via some electro-mechanical contraption and powder bags by hand. No endurance but a mildly terrifying rate of fire, in summary. 4 Battery at least has no real big problems - the L9 Birch Gun Carrier and its twin 40mm autocannon provide for excellent AA defence, and the logistical units of 5 Battalion have few problems schlepping 40x311mm rounds to the AA crews.

 

[Durand Durand]

[x] Captain James Valjean, Königsmarine (Ret.)
[x] Major Kiera Hellsand, Federal Army
[x] Kerry Pellham, Saunders Armour
[x] Johann G. Thale, Thale-Ketts Automotive

 

[FC Error]

Map added to the infopost; thank @Durand Durand for their excellent work there.

 

[Glitchrr36]

[x] 3rd Prince Roland MacAllister
[x] Captain James Valjean, Königsmarine (Ret.)
[x] Cornelius Markham, Highlake Defence Company
[x] Major Kiera Hellsand, Federal Army

 

[CthuluWasRight]

[x] 3rd Prince Roland MacAllister
[x] Captain James Valjean, Königsmarine (Ret.)
[x] Cornelius Markham, Highlake Defence Company
[x] Major Kiera Hellsand, Federal Army

 

[FC Error]

[x] 3rd Prince Roland MacAllister
[x] Captain James Valjean, Königsmarine (Ret.)
[x] Cornelius Markham, Highlake Defence Company
[x] Major Kiera Hellsand, Federal Army

With your team thus assembled (and enduring much grumbling from Hellsand about being dragged into this committee) you find a suitable building in Army Base Meihr and set to work.

Given the vague nature of the proposal, Prince Roland proposes a design similar to the up-gunned armoured cars employed in the past; preferably a wheeled design, carrying at least a 75mm general-purpose gun, with a co-axial HMG for beating up anything that doesn't rate the 75. Speed and armament should, he opines, take priority; if you need something to take hits, that's what tanks are for.

Captain Valjean concurs partly; agreeing armament is the most important feature, but also expresses a preference for a tracked design (swimmable if possible) with enough armour to at least resist 50mm AT guns from the front. He also puts forth the newly-developed "cage" armour Thale-Ketts has been making noises about as a potential solution to recoilless rifles and shoulder-fired AT rockets.

Cornelius Markham, for his part, opts to take the Prince's train of thought to its logical conclusion; he sketches out some designs for, effectively, a jeep with a recoilless rifle or MCLOS missile launcher; no armour, just a very low profile and exceptional speed. Valjean is hesitant, to say the least; its armament is limited and survivability near-zero, but Markham purports it would be able to conceal itself easily and de-ass any firing perch in a hurry.

Hellsand, for her part, simply notes that as long as whatever system is eventually adopted can be put in the field soonest, she doesn't overly care.

So after some weeks of argument, debate, drinks, and the Prince exhibiting a surprising degree of skill in sketching out designs, you settle down to write your RFP.

Vote by plan. Set out a Request for Proposal; in brief, include any feature you feel the vehicle needs and feel free to add optional requests.

 

[brmj]

The thing we really need here is a clearer understanding of the role this will actually perform and what it will be expected to fight. Which implies going back and reading the other content, maybe asking some questions and still just hoping in the end we were mostly right.

But I'm on my phone, so I'm going to skip ahead to the part where I express poorly informed preferences.

I like option 1. It is hard to go wrong with something along the lines of a Panhard AML.

 

[Durand Durand]

Valjean's amended amphibious armoured article is my call. As it'll be fighting, survivability ought to be of some concern, though it can be agreed that the gun is the most important element.

 

[Industrialvice]

I back Valjean, if only to get the cage armor. It's probably the only solution to HEAT warheads making all our AFVs go splat .

 

[brmj]

AML + cage armor? I don't right off see why not.

 

[FC Error]

If I might ask that you condense that to a plan vote? For example;

[X] Plan Example
-[X] Vehicle must be tracked, and armoured against medium AT guns from the front, light autocannon all other aspects
-[X] Vehicle should be amphibious if possible

And so on for whatever other features you want to require or make optional.

 

[brmj]

I guess before I put something together, I'd like some clarity on what exactly the percieved defficiencies of the Saunders Wolverine variant armored car are, and why it doesn't adequately satisfy this need right now. It seems to be almost exactly what the Prince suggests, and not far off from what I was half way through writing a specification for.

 

[brmj]

Pending feedback and discussion:

[X] Plan Goldilocks
-[X] Vehicle should be armored against light autocannon from all sides and protected from infantry anti-tank weapons using cage armor or similar.
-[X] Vehicle should be wheeled, and must achieve a minimum of 60kph.
-[X] Vehicle must have a fully enclosed turret armed with a 90mm low velocity gun and a coaxial machine gun.

This is an attempt to ask for something quite resistant to enemy infantry and any vehicles not intended to tangle with serious armor, with the ability to realistically threaten current tanks under the right circumstances, a large enough gun to have some real options and utility, and the mobility to outmaneuver tanks or help with recon. Somewhere in between the Prince's plan and Valjean's. I'm envisioning something rugged, relatively cheap, and able to both threaten and outmaneuver anything it can't outfight directly. Presumably heavier than an AML or the like because of the extra armor, but it should still be doable to keep this fairly small and light by armored vehicle standards.

 

[Pyro Hawk]

I'm liking brmj's idea, but I don't know the existing start of weapons technology so I suspect that asking for a 90mm low velocity gun on a light vehicle is basically trying to get a medium tank gun on a tankette. It's going to be a horrible amalgamation that is neither 'light', 'tankette', nor 'functional'. At least using just post-WW2 technology, which is what it sounds like we've got available.

So @FC Error Can we get some more input on what tank guns look like in the current environment? And how much room is there for experimental designs?

 

[brmj]

I'm liking brmj's idea, but I don't know the existing start of weapons technology so I suspect that asking for a 90mm low velocity gun on a light vehicle is basically trying to get a medium tank gun on a tankette. It's going to be a horrible amalgamation that is neither 'light', 'tankette', nor 'functional'. At least using just post-WW2 technology, which is what it sounds like we've got available.

So @FC Error Can we get some more input on what tank guns look like in the current environment? And how much room is there for experimental designs?

Click to shrink...

We have existing armored cars with that armament. Very fast ones too. And that's what the more heavilly armed version of the Panhard AML carries, despite being under 6 tons. That's a 1959 design, so a bit in our future but not far off.

 

[FC Error]

In brief, the most common AT guns are 75 or 80mm high-velocity models; while some experimentation has been done with smoothbore, rifled is still the order of the day. Infantry AT is a mix of light rockets and recoilless rifles, pretty much entirely HEAT (some countries use HESH, to... varying, though often unimpressive, effect).

As for the Saunders, it falls into the category of "it works, but that's about it"; the ergonomics are terrible, the vehicle carries a tiny ammunition supply, and while it's fast, its range is distressingly short. Plus it was an ad-hoc design, and is hated by just about everyone who's had to crew one. The Prince's plan was essentially "the Wolverine, but actually good".

 

[Durand Durand]

[X] Plan 24601
-[X] Vehicle should have a primary gun of at least 75mm and a coaxial heavy machine gun.
-[X] Vehicle must have a fully enclosed turret.
-[X] Vehicle should be wheeled.
-[X] Vehicle should be amphibious if possible.
-[X] Vehicle should be armored against light autocannon from all sides.
-[X] Vehicle's frontal armour should be able to resist at least 50mm anti-tank rounds.
-[X] Vehicle may be a test-bed for Thale-Ketts' experimental "cage" armour.

This is a combination of Plan Goldilocks and a modified version of Valjean's proposal.

 

[Donkey Hote]

[X] Plan 24601

 

[Pyro Hawk]

[X] Plan Light Support Vehicle
-[X] Vehicle should have a primary gun of at least 75mm and a coaxial heavy machine gun.
-[X] Vehicle must have a fully enclosed turret.
-[X] Vehicle should preferably be wheeled.
-[X] Vehicle must be armored against machine guns from all sides.
-[X] Vehicle should be armoured against light autocannons on the sides.
-[X] Vehicle's frontal armour should be able to resist at least 50mm anti-tank rounds.
-[X] Vehicle should be amphibious if possible.
--[X] Vehicle amphibious capabilities should preferably work with minimal additional components and set up.
-[X] Vehicle may be a test-bed for Thale-Ketts' experimental "cage" armour.

Okay, this is very similar to 24601. All I've changed is set things up such that the vehicle must be armoured against machine gun fire from all sides, with the actual sides preferably able to resist light autocannons. This is to try and keep the vehicle relatively 'light' so we don't end up with something that's effectively a wheeled light tank. I've also added another line talking about the amphibious requirements, so that we hopefully get something where you don't have to bolt on a nose and rear flotation device or the like for the vehicle to become amphibious.

Basically, trying to get something where it is amphibious, but making it amphibious doesn't require things like what were used for the Japanese light tanks in WW2. Something similar to the Sherman DD Tank is kind of what I'd like to see if the system can't be made to better fit the vehicle, because they supposedly only took a quarter of an hour to set up before deploying, and once they'd landed the flotation devices could be discarded quickly if they interfered with combat capabilities.

 

[FC Error]

[X] Plan 24601
-[X] Vehicle should have a primary gun of at least 75mm and a coaxial heavy machine gun.
-[X] Vehicle must have a fully enclosed turret.
-[X] Vehicle should be wheeled.
-[X] Vehicle should be amphibious if possible.
-[X] Vehicle should be armoured against light autocannon from all sides.
-[X] Vehicle's frontal armour should be able to resist at least 50mm anti-tank rounds.
-[X] Vehicle may be a test-bed for Thale-Ketts' experimental "cage" armour.


With most of the details hammered out - enough to write the RFP, at least - you dress everything up in legalese and technical terms and send it off to the assorted companies throughout the Federation, and promptly spend the next month and change trying to beat your RCT into shape and hash out the (many) problems therein.

[] Standardize infantry weapons. (Choose one of the following: Holl 875 & Holl 875.1; or R1945 & vz.70.)
[] Modify organization: specify. (E.g. "Redesignate 3 Battalion infantry as motorized." Non-combat equipment can be changed relatively easily.)
[] Modify training; choose focus. (Infantry, Armour, Artillery, Combined Arms: pick two.)

After that frenzied month, initial prototypes start trickling in for testing - amazing, how the looming threat of invasion (again) can accelerate the usually-glacial design and prototyping process. Though of course, such a short cycle means recycled designs and teething problems out the wazoo.

Sudentor Autoworks was the first to respond; offering an unusual 8-wheeled design - the "Light Support Vehicle, Type 50" - surrounded by the almost fence-like cage armour. The armour is relatively thin, though sloped; the front, especially, has a notable angle on both upper and lower glacis. The turret is situated rearward, carrying the requisite 75mm gun, with the driver and engine forward. Sudentor has also opted for an auto-loading mechanism, reducing the crew to three.

An initial inspection reveals no immediately obvious problems, though the Sudentor rep does admit that preparing the vehicle for swimming is a somewhat lengthy process, mostly due to the complex mechanical linkage between the drivetrain and propellers.

Thale-Ketts shows up with their entry next; a squat, 6-wheeled vehicle resembling nothing more than an armoured car shoved in an animal cage. Dubbed the Stoat Mk.I, it follows relatively conventional layout - engine in the rear, crew and turret forward - the vehicle requires a three-man crew, with the gunner doubling as the loader. The T-K rep takes it for a brief spin around the base's obstacle course, showing off its genuinely impressive speed - though when pressed, admits the somewhat boxy shape and cramped interior makes the ergonomics passable-at-best. Additionally, while the flotation skirt for amphibious mobility is a relatively simple set-up, it is (in the rep's own words) "A bit less than perfect in the water-tightness department." Nonetheless, a 90mm gun and co-axial 14.5mm machine gun (and pintle-mount vz.70 above the commander's hatch) provide a capable armament.

von Grender has opted to throw their hat into the ring as well, with an honestly bizarre design; seemingly gliding into the base. As the rep explains to the puzzled-looking crowd gathering, the imaginatively-named "Support Vehicle, Ground-Effect, Mark 1" uses a cushion of air trapped beneath the vehicle by fans to hover just above the surface, permitting for both a considerable turn of speed and the ability to hover over water as easily as land. He also acknowledges that the cage armour, not present on this example, was a bit heavy; promises of a Mark 2 with said cage are met with some skepticism.

The armament of a 75mm auto-loaded gun, 14.5mm co-axial MG, and a single (reloadable) MCLOS missile tube are not; while the missile's munition reserves are shallow at only 3 missiles, the armour crews present all agree that a lightly-armoured support vehicle is unlikely to fire more than one or two before retreating anyways, so the addition is welcomed.

Of the remaining companies, Saunders Armour Works sends a letter apologising for their absence, indicating they haven't been able to put forth a design - and Highlake Defence sends a salesman shortly after the other have arrived, indicating his company's prototype should be ready within the week.

Now, of course, it's time to run the examples through their paces; naturally, the vehicle proving grounds at Base Grand Rapids is the first order of business. Any further testing, however…

[] How will you test the vehicles? Specify. (E.g. extended road-march, "Oh dear god, the tank's on fire"* test, field maintenance tests, etc.)

*"Oh dear god, the tank's on fire" test does not require actual fire.

 

[brmj]

I was prepared for a great many things, but not a hovercraft. It's a terrible idea, and I love it.

 

[7734]

[x] Standardize infantry weapons: Holl 875 & Holl 875.1
[x] Test Vehicles For
-[x] Endurance- run them until they break down on the obsticle course until crews cannot fix them.
-[x] Gun use- 50 rounds, known and unknown distance ranges.
-[x] Terrain Handling- speed course around the track
-[x] Crew Comfort- have the vehicle (using smoke/paint rounds) travel the base obsticle course as fast as possible while engaging 5 silouhette targets.

 

[Durand Durand]

[X] 7734