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I'm not going to weigh in on the logic of either side's arguments, but I will ask that everyone read over what they write and really consider if the words they used are polite and won't be inflammatory intentionally or not. You cant account for people's tolerances perfectly but at least try to say your piece without saying things that can be easily construed as overly dismissive of the other side of the argument, thank you.

Please endeavour to be cordial. :^)
 
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I really wanna see what else we can do with the Master Rune of Purification. Especially with Magic Denied as our trait.

I have an idea
pick ax that can safely destroy warp stone , Master Rune of Purification , Rune of Spell Eating , Rune of Demon Slaying , I picked the rune demon slaying due to its effect against dark magic which is a given since both demons and warp stone are made of dark magic , the Rune of spell eating to suck up the magic of the warp stone into the pick and the rune of purification to cleanse it either destroying the warp stone outright or if we are very lucky turning it into something new and untainted
 
Hmm. Can permutations of the Purification rune permakill a vamp? I would assume not, unless a vamp's entire body is Purified with no other bits outside to regenerate from.

Maybe end case are cages/coffins where a vamp is allowed to regenerate completely before they are Purified or something. Even if it is incredibly convoluted, just the ability to permakill a Vamp should still be pretty valuable.
 
I have an idea
pick ax that can safely destroy warp stone , Master Rune of Purification , Rune of Spell Eating , Rune of Demon Slaying , I picked the rune demon slaying due to its effect against dark magic which is a given since both demons and warp stone are made of dark magic , the Rune of spell eating to suck up the magic of the warp stone into the pick and the rune of purification to cleanse it either destroying the warp stone outright or if we are very lucky turning it into something new and untainted
My theory is that purifying warpstone would result in a much more explosive reaction, on the level of matter to energy transmutation. We best have a very good protective devices. Better yet, we do the experiments in enemy territory, from afar.

Also possibly relevant: both laihtero and warpstone are crystalline. Opposite ends of the same spectrum? Stay tuned to find out
 
I don't think vampires are actually a thing yet, and for all we know they may not ever be.
 
Hmm. Can permutations of the Purification rune permakill a vamp? I would assume not, unless a vamp's entire body is Purified with no other bits outside to regenerate from.

Maybe end case are cages/coffins where a vamp is allowed to regenerate completely before they are Purified or something. Even if it is incredibly convoluted, just the ability to permakill a Vamp should still be pretty valuable.

I don't think we even really know what the talisman purification rune does besides making adamant, still less what a banner or weapon variant might do. Like it's an antimagic rune obviously, but would purification on an amulet effectively function as spellbreaking++ or would it have a very different kind of antimagic effect?

This is one of several reasons I think it would be real cool to do master rune research on the purification rune sometime reasonably soon: completing it would presumably make Snorri much better at articulating what effects one might expect if the rune is inscribed on a piece of personal equipment. Currently it's kind of a mystery box and trying it out on a necklace or w/e just to see what happens would cost a t4 ingredient.
 
hopefully the voidstone research with the brotherhood, and the fact that we are the creator will knock off some actions off those 16, so it will seem less daunting
 
I don't think we even really know what the talisman purification rune does besides making adamant, still less what a banner or weapon variant might do. Like it's an antimagic rune obviously, but would purification on an amulet effectively function as spellbreaking++ or would it have a very different kind of antimagic effect?

This is one of several reasons I think it would be real cool to do master rune research on the purification rune sometime reasonably soon: completing it would presumably make Snorri much better at articulating what effects one might expect if the rune is inscribed on a piece of personal equipment. Currently it's kind of a mystery box and trying it out on a necklace or w/e just to see what happens would cost a t4 ingredient.
One of the strange things about it is that it doesn't sound like a talisman rune as we have it. It sounds like a building/engineering rune.
If we made a Talisman with this rune it sounds like the result would be a Rune of Spelleating that happens to burn whoever is wearing it.
 
hopefully the voidstone research with the brotherhood, and the fact that we are the creator will knock off some actions off those 16, so it will seem less daunting

I'm pretty sure Soul's already gone on record saying Snorri's got a leg up on researching the rune because he was the one who discovered it. Dunno if voidstone research would help on top of that; I certainly wouldn't mind if it turned out to work that way but I'm not really holding my breath for it.

One of the strange things about it is that it doesn't sound like a talisman rune as we have it. It sounds like a building/engineering rune.
If we made a Talisman with this rune it sounds like the result would be a Rune of Spelleating that happens to burn whoever is wearing it.

I kinda suspect the seemingly poor fit for the talisman category is less because the rune is inherently different from other talisman runes and more because Snorri doesn't understand it very well. It's probably got a useful effect of some kind if inscribed on a necklace, Snorri just doesn't know what specifically that might be because he's never even tried to use the rune for anything other than metal processing.
 
I'm pretty sure Soul's already gone on record saying Snorri's got a leg up on researching the rune because he was the one who discovered it. Dunno if voidstone research would help on top of that; I certainly wouldn't mind if it turned out to work that way but I'm not really holding my breath for it.

Oh, i'm not holding my breath or anything, but i think that studying the ingredient itself would be something useful for what makes the master rune tick. I expect it would be a subset of the 16 actions, to know why the Ingredient affects the rune that way. But then again, the action we completed might also be just an answer to "what the hell is this thing?"
 
[Canon cept for a few bits] A Foundation, +15 to Nain's Apprentice Roll [USED]
"Hey, have you heard? Bronn's completed his first rune!"

Of course he'd heard. It was the talk of the whole clan: not even a decade into his apprenticeship and Bronn Grundisson had already made an acceptable Rune of Stone. Great-Aunt Bara had been making a point of complaining about it merely being acceptable to anyone she'd meet, that was how pleased she was.

"They say it's been centuries since a Stoneplate apprentice accomplished anything like that so quickly. Say, Nain, how's your own apprenticeship going, anyway?"

Master Snorri didn't even trust him to chisel practice runes into real stone yet. He was still carving lines into clay tablets, much as he had been doing since his first day as an apprentice - and still making much the same mistakes, if Master's irate yelling was anything to go by. Well, that was the gist of it, anyway: he gave a mumbled response to the question while staring into his tankard, so he wasn't sure all the detail quite came across. The general tenor of his answer was obvious enough, though.

He'd had the same conversation several times by now. His elders would grumble about the fecklessness of youth, conspicuously without the undertone of respect they had when grumbling about Bronn. His fellow beardlings were worse: platitudes and awkward half-smiles all around, as if they weren't sure if they were supposed to console him or ignore him. Cousin Inga had reached out a hand towards his shoulder but stopped halfway when he hunched in his seat.

---

Karstah was out running errands, and Master had stalked off to some other part of the workshop, muttering about tubers. Nain was left alone with his thoughts, and found he didn't much care for the company. His practice lines seemed to stare back accusingly at him. Is this all you amount to, son of Kazzar? Do you have the gall to call yourself a runesmith if this is the best you can accomplish? Perhaps you ought to-

"Mmm. Third line's a little shallow, I'd say."

Nain whipped around with an undignified yelp and found himself face to face with one of Master's older students, standing stupidly in place for a few moments before giving an awkward half-bow. "Er, hello, elder Dolgi, sir. I didn't hear you approach."

He'd never really spoken to Dolgi Griffonfriend, who spent most of his time inside the secure workshop, learning guild secrets Nain wasn't even supposed to know existed. His friend Gunder who was apprenticing as a blacksmith had received instruction from the man on making griffon armour, though. The smith apprentices all swore up and down he never complained about anything, ever. On those occasions even the other beardlings could tell an apprentice was being foolish, he just stared at them patiently and explained exactly what they were doing wrong. It was more than a little intimidating: how were you supposed to tell what an elder was thinking if they didn't grumble?

"I don't mean to pry, lad, but you seem a little out of sorts. Are you all right?"

I'm fine, sir. Sorry to trouble you, sir. That's what he should have said. Something that would have let him salvage a bit of dignity and get back to practicing. But his mouth seemed to have come unmoored from his brain, and so the rest of him could only watch in muted horror as it blurted out: "how old were you when you made your first rune?"

Elder Dolgi looked at him for a second with those patient eyes of his. "This is about that cousin of yours, is it? The prodigy."

Nain had not exactly begun as he'd meant to continue, but since the earth seemed uninterested in swallowing him up as he'd been praying for, he needed to fill the air with something. "I- I just worry about not measuring up, um, sir. Not just to Bronn. Everybody always talks about Master Snorri's previous students all being geniuses, and..." he trailed off, glancing at his linework.

"Mm. It's a little early in your apprenticeship to worry about that sort of thing, don't you think?"

You don't understand, Nain thought and didn't say, having finally gotten his tongue back under control. The message seemed to be received regardless, because elder Dolgi smiled wryly at him.

"Lad, I trained together with a woman a hundred years younger than me. It took her perhaps twenty years to surpass me as a runesmith. I may have some inkling about what it feels like to not 'measure up'." He paused for a moment. "But that's the wrong way to think about this. The truth is that every apprentice learns at exactly the same pace: one step at a time."

"I-"

Elder Dolgi held up a hand to forestall him. "Talent's a fine thing, and it's certainly true that there are dwarfs out there who learn their runework quicker than you or I. But Master Snorri can fill your head with runelore and make your hands into maker's hands no matter where you started from. The only thing you absolutely have to do by yourself is to find the determination to keep going, even when the wall ahead of you seems insurmountable." The elder paused to contemplate Nain's linework. "You've already started to build a solid foundation, even if it doesn't feel that way at the moment. You decided you'd work as hard as you needed when you accepted this apprenticeship, didn't you? That right there is the most important step. If you can keep hold of that resolve, and fix your eyes on the road ahead of you, then I promise you'll make a fine runesmith one day. A pillar of clan Stoneplate."

"You really think so?" Nain asked in a small voice.

"Course I do. If you can't trust in your own potential, then trust in Master Snorri's judgement. He's very wise, after all: if he thinks you're worth his time, who are we to say he's mistaken?"

Nain closed his eyes. Took a deep breath. Then he opened them, squared his shoulders and bowed - a proper one this time. "I will take your words to heart, elder. Thank you."

Elder Dolgi grinned at him. "Don't worry about it, kid. Now we'd best get back to work before the master-"

"Well, well, WELL! I pop out for a minute and find not one but two idiot pupils cooling their heels when they should be working! You think yourself done with your master runes already, Dolgi? Learned enough to take over teaching my apprentices for me, have you?"

"Certainly not, Master. I'll get back to my duties immediately," said elder Dolgi, seemingly unperturbed.

"You'd better. As for you," and Nain could feel himself wilting under Master Snorri's glare, "if you think you have time to stand around moping then I've clearly been too soft on you. Well, don't worry, we'll be fixing that presently. For now, get back to practicing while I give young Dolgi a piece of my mind. Take another break like this and you'll live to regret it, understand?"

"Yes, Master!" Nain shouted, but Master had already turned on his heel and stalked off, elder Dolgi to his right and a half-step behind him.

"What would my fellow runelords say if they saw this sorry scene, Dolgi? My own pupils, downing tools the moment I turn my back! Downright disrespectful is what it is. I've half a mind to have you restart your apprenticeship from the beginning."

"Yes, Master. I apologise, Master."

"Sometimes I despair of the youth today. They've got no respect. Back in my day we knew to honour the words of our elders. Are you listening to me, Dolgi?"

"Of course, Master."

"Bah! Maybe Master Yorri was right all along. Maybe I've spoiled you rotten by sparing you the troll tongue. Well, perhaps it's time I-"

Funny how things work out sometimes, Nain thought as he got back to doing his lines. The prospect of facing Master Snorri's... inventive... methods of remedial discipline ought to have him shaking like a leaf, but his hands were steadier than they'd been for months.
 
"Hey, have you heard? Bronn's completed his first rune!"

Of course he'd heard. It was the talk of the whole clan: not even a decade into his apprenticeship and Bronn Grundisson had already made an acceptable Rune of Stone. Great-Aunt Bara had been making a point of complaining about it merely being acceptable to anyone she'd meet, that was how pleased she was.

"They say it's been centuries since a Stoneplate apprentice accomplished anything like that so quickly. Say, Nain, how's your own apprenticeship going, anyway?"

Master Snorri didn't even trust him to chisel practice runes into real stone yet. He was still carving lines into clay tablets, much as he had been doing since his first day as an apprentice - and still making much the same mistakes, if Master's irate yelling was anything to go by. Well, that was the gist of it, anyway: he gave a mumbled response to the question while staring into his tankard, so he wasn't sure all the detail quite came across. The general tenor of his answer was obvious enough, though.

He'd had the same conversation several times by now. His elders would grumble about the fecklessness of youth, conspicuously without the undertone of respect they had when grumbling about Bronn. His fellow beardlings were worse: platitudes and awkward half-smiles all around, as if they weren't sure if they were supposed to console him or ignore him. Cousin Inga had reached out a hand towards his shoulder but stopped halfway when he hunched in his seat.

---

Karstah was out running errands, and Master had stalked off to some other part of the workshop, muttering about tubers. Nain was left alone with his thoughts, and found he didn't much care for the company. His practice lines seemed to stare back accusingly at him. Is this all you amount to, son of Kazzar? Do you have the gall to call yourself a runesmith if this is the best you can accomplish? Perhaps you ought to-

"Mmm. Third line's a little shallow, I'd say."

Nain whipped around with an undignified yelp and found himself face to face with one of Master's older students, standing stupidly in place for a few moments before giving an awkward half-bow. "Er, hello, elder Dolgi, sir. I didn't hear you approach."

He'd never really spoken to Dolgi Griffonfriend, who spent most of his time inside the secure workshop, learning guild secrets Nain wasn't even supposed to know existed. His friend Gunder who was apprenticing as a blacksmith had received instruction from the man on making griffon armour, though. The smith apprentices all swore up and down he never complained about anything, ever. On those occasions even the other beardlings could tell an apprentice was being foolish, he just stared at them patiently and explained exactly what they were doing wrong. It was more than a little intimidating: how were you supposed to tell what an elder was thinking if they didn't grumble?

"I don't mean to pry, lad, but you seem a little out of sorts. Are you all right?"

I'm fine, sir. Sorry to trouble you, sir. That's what he should have said. Something that would have let him salvage a bit of dignity and get back to practicing. But his mouth seemed to have come unmoored from his brain, and so the rest of him could only watch in muted horror as it blurted out: "how old were you when you made your first rune?"

Elder Dolgi looked at him for a second with those patient eyes of his. "This is about that cousin of yours, is it? The prodigy."

Nain had not exactly begun as he'd meant to continue, but since the earth seemed uninterested in swallowing him up as he'd been praying for, he needed to fill the air with something. "I- I just worry about not measuring up, um, sir. Not just to Bronn. Everybody always talks about Master Snorri's previous students all being geniuses, and..." he trailed off, glancing at his linework.

"Mm. It's a little early in your apprenticeship to worry about that sort of thing, don't you think?"

You don't understand, Nain thought and didn't say, having finally gotten his tongue back under control. The message seemed to be received regardless, because elder Dolgi smiled wryly at him.

"Lad, I trained together with a woman a hundred years younger than me. It took her perhaps twenty years to surpass me as a runesmith. I may have some inkling about what it feels like to not 'measure up'." He paused for a moment. "But that's the wrong way to think about this. The truth is that every apprentice learns at exactly the same pace: one step at a time."

"I-"

Elder Dolgi held up a hand to forestall him. "Talent's a fine thing, and it's certainly true that there are dwarfs out there who learn their runework quicker than you or I. But Master Snorri can fill your head with runelore and make your hands into maker's hands no matter where you started from. The only thing you absolutely have to do by yourself is to find the determination to keep going, even when the wall ahead of you seems insurmountable." The elder paused to contemplate Nain's linework. "You've already started to build a solid foundation, even if it doesn't feel that way at the moment. You decided you'd work as hard as you needed when you accepted this apprenticeship, didn't you? That right there is the most important step. If you can keep hold of that resolve, and fix your eyes on the road ahead of you, then I promise you'll make a fine runesmith one day. A pillar of clan Stoneplate."

"You really think so?" Nain asked in a small voice.

"Course I do. If you can't trust in your own potential, then trust in Master Snorri's judgement. He's very wise, after all: if he thinks you're worth his time, who are we to say he's mistaken?"

Nain closed his eyes. Took a deep breath. Then he opened them, squared his shoulders and bowed - a proper one this time. "I will take your words to heart, elder. Thank you."

Elder Dolgi grinned at him. "Don't worry about it, kid. Now we'd best get back to work before the master-"

"Well, well, WELL! I pop out for a minute and find not one but two idiot pupils cooling their heels when they should be working! You think yourself done with your master runes already, Dolgi? Learned enough to take over teaching my apprentices for me, have you?"

"Certainly not, Master. I'll get back to my duties immediately," said elder Dolgi, seemingly unperturbed.

"You'd better. As for you," and Nain could feel himself wilting under Master Snorri's glare, "if you think you have time to stand around moping then I've clearly been too soft on you. Well, don't worry, we'll be fixing that presently. For now, get back to practicing while I give young Dolgi a piece of my mind. Take another break like this and you'll live to regret it, understand?"

"Yes, Master!" Nain shouted, but Master had already turned on his heel and stalked off, elder Dolgi to his right and a half-step behind him.

"What would my fellow runelords say if they saw this sorry scene, Dolgi? My own pupils, downing tools the moment I turn my back! Downright disrespectful is what it is. I've half a mind to have you restart your apprenticeship from the beginning."

"Yes, Master. I apologise, Master."

"Sometimes I despair of the youth today. They've got no respect. Back in my day we knew to honour the words of our elders. Are you listening to me, Dolgi?"

"Of course, Master."

"Bah! Maybe Master Yorri was right all along. Maybe I've spoiled you rotten by sparing you the troll tongue. Well, perhaps it's time I-"

Funny how things work out sometimes, Nain thought as he got back to doing his lines. The prospect of facing Master Snorri's... inventive... methods of remedial discipline ought to have him shaking like a leaf, but his hands were steadier than they'd been for months.
YES

This be a proper Snorri grumble. *cackles*

Dolgi is best boy.
 
That's an excellent omake, bird yells. I think it's too early for even a Snerra equivalent to have carved her first Rune, let alone Bronn, but picturing this as a scene from the future is lovely.
 
That's an excellent omake, bird yells. I think it's too early for even a Snerra equivalent to have carved her first Rune, let alone Bronn, but picturing this as a scene from the future is lovely.
Ehh runesmiths have different teaching methods. Yorri probably had Snorri so his first carving within 3-5 years given the 20 year length. Snorri could just be one of those that take extremely long to let the students actually carve. They might have the skills to do something functional but shoddy decades earlier.
 
"Hey, have you heard? Bronn's completed his first rune!"

Of course he'd heard. It was the talk of the whole clan: not even a decade into his apprenticeship and Bronn Grundisson had already made an acceptable Rune of Stone. Great-Aunt Bara had been making a point of complaining about it merely being acceptable to anyone she'd meet, that was how pleased she was.

"They say it's been centuries since a Stoneplate apprentice accomplished anything like that so quickly. Say, Nain, how's your own apprenticeship going, anyway?"
WHEN this happens is gonna be a bit hazy, but it will happen. [Canon 'cept for a few bits] if only because Bronn ISNT that good to have made his first Rune in a decade. About Fjolla tier really. There's a bit of leeway because the Master ultimately decides when you're ready to do the first Rune, but yeah. Otherwise, this is like REALLLLLLY GOOD characterization wise.

EDIT: After reading the old updates, you're off by a few years to a decade actually. Fjolla made her first Rune around the end of turn 2.
 
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Ty everyone, and yes, I figured the rune thing would raise a few eyebrows. I think there's probably a lot of leeway in how quickly a master has their apprentices making one depending on teaching style (Snorri's own 20-year apprenticeship comes to mind), but ultimately I decided to stretch a lil bit because I needed Bronn to land a big and obvious accomplishment that could serve as a focus for Nain's insecurites. Having him progress to training stage 3 ahead of schedule wouldn't really have had the same impact lol
 
Does anyone know when and where gyrocopters were made? I have this image of dwarfs flying with griffons stuck in my head and it looks really cool. In fact, why not go for Thunderbarges? I've seen pictures of them floating around and they'd make great platforms for both for dawi and griffons traveling large distances. Sort of like helicarriers, but dwarf style.
 
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