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RHUNRIKKI STROLLAR (Warhammer Fantasy Golden Age Dwarf Runelord Quest)

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Discord.

On Thread Etiquette:
I'm not going to weigh in on the logic of either side's arguments, but I will ask that everyone read over what they write and really consider if the words they used are polite and won't be inflammatory intentionally or not. You cant account for people's tolerances perfectly but at least try to say your piece without saying things that can be easily construed as overly dismissive of the other side of the argument, thank you.

Please endeavour to be cordial. :^)
 
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@bird yells Snorri the Immovable is a great name.

NSMS said:
Rune of regeneration, maybe? Or perhaps an ancestor rune?
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There's no specific Ancestor Rune that really works for what Bird Yells is getting at, not even Grimnir's, because Grimnir's rune doesn't really link directly to the heart thing he's talking about.

Trolls are also Mighty creatures, which is a thing I brought up when describing Ymir. @BelligerentGnu this thing is kind of your baby? Why do you want Preservation? Personally after reading this and ruminating on it I like Master Unyielding, Fortitude, Might and think they would work together better.

soulcake said:
If by thematic reasons for using a Troll's heart in the Master Rune, well trolls evoke a tireless thing that has shown to continue regenerating and moving/acting even beyond death because of their crazy regen. It's specifically the moving of something that shouldn't be is why it's used in the Master Rune of Waking.
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They fight and move and eat even when they should be dead, and their vitality, their raw life force, gives them a great might.

bird yells said:
The former says "thunderbolt in the heart of winter" while the latter says "I'm stacking all the bonuses to Armour Class, bro, so I'll be really hard to hit".
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IIRC when I came up with it the attempted statement was something like a perfect sanctuary. But, like, personally speaking I think Preservation screwed the combo over a bit, as well as on Gloin's armor.
 
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I'm quite willing to write up a plan for the gronti, save that I'm stuck on my phone for the foreseeable future and that not a lot of people seem willing to begin stockpiling for the project, seeing as I want to make it pure Adamant.
 
NSMS said:
Rune of regeneration, maybe? Or perhaps an ancestor rune?
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Idk if Snorri knows a rune for regeneration, specifically. You could stick a healing rune on the suit and it'd certainly be pulling on the occupant rather than the armour itself, but I feel like the unyielding rune already has the regeneration bit covered and stacking redundant effects is unlikely to have good results, to my mind (see eg Snorri's rune hammer, which sticks both conduction and fire on the same weapon and doesn't have a combo going for it).
 
bird yells said:
As for the dwarf armour, I'm in agreement with you that preservation is the odd man out. Unyielding and fortitude both work on the man inside the armour and intuitively fit well together with the concepts I associate with the heart: persistence, stubbornness, vitality etc. Preservation is described as affecting the armour itself, making it supernaturally protective. It's a rune designed to work on dead matter; a fine low-risk choice for most armour but a poor fit for this particular suit, imo.
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I was actually going to suggest preservation too. We're going to be making an armor to last the ages, so it's possible that the armor's durability itself eventually comes into question. Remember that our current armor, with Master Rune of Gromril (which enable it to 'withstand titanic blows') got dented. Our new armor, while made of adamant, probably won't be as physically tough as the current suit.

Maybe Rune of Valaya on armor? If we scale down the effects of the master rune, it should give some magic resistance, resistance to fatigue and healing... which has a decent synergy with M.R. of Unyielding.
 
IronFist said:
I was actually going to suggest preservation too. We're going to be making an armor to last the ages, so it's possible that the armor's durability itself eventually comes into question. Remember that our current armor, with Master Rune of Gromril (which enable it to 'withstand titanic blows') got dented. Our new armor, while made of adamant, probably won't be as physically tough as the current suit.

Maybe Rune of Valaya on armor? If we scale down the effects of the master rune, it should give some magic resistance, resistance to fatigue and healing... which has a decent synergy with M.R. of Unyielding.
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Preservation is more about closing up the weaknesses and gaps in an armor's form and protective function, than literally preserving the armor though I imagine it has some of that.
 
IronFist said:
I was actually going to suggest preservation too. We're going to be making an armor to last the ages, so it's possible that the armor's durability itself eventually comes into question. Remember that our current armor, with Master Rune of Gromril (which enable it to 'withstand titanic blows') got dented. Our new armor, while made of adamant, probably won't be as physically tough as the current suit.

Maybe Rune of Valaya on armor? If we scale down the effects of the master rune, it should give some magic resistance, resistance to fatigue and healing... which has a decent synergy with M.R. of Unyielding.
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Snorri specifically says he can't imagine what could physically harm adamant when he's looking into its properties, IIRC. If it's not at least as durable as master-runed gromril, I'd honestly be surprised. Any weaknesses in it are likely to come from ties and such, rather than the armour itself.
 
EVA-Saiyajin said:
Ties?
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Straps and other "affix armor to body" tools, presumably. I would expect those to be an obvious failure point and thus handled for heavy armor (as is pretty much required for adamant, because most opponents that require adamant to protect against are also more than capable of using various methods to get around limited coverage plating).
 
Hmmm. I'm certainly open to swapping out Preservation, but I'm not sure Might fits. Might strikes me as an offensive rune, whereas this armour is s complete defensive theme.

How about Rune of the Stalwart?
 
BelligerentGnu said:
Hmmm. I'm certainly open to swapping out Preservation, but I'm not sure Might fits. Might strikes me as an offensive rune, whereas this armour is s complete defensive theme.

How about Rune of the Stalwart?
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Hmmmmmmmmmmm. I've outlined why I like Might, but Stalwart is definitely on the table for me.

@bird yells? What do you think, you're the one who raised the heart idea. We could go for a stalwart heart sort of theme. (There's three options for this sort of thing, but if we want literally stalwart, then Rune of the Stalwart is definitely very specific)


E: For those trying to keep up the discussion being done here is about how to realize the intent of the Eternal Bastion write in I made on page 654.

At the moment it's currently looking like one of these three:

[ ] [Difficult] The Eternal Bastion Pt. 1: You've had a two close calls in the past two centuries and you know you're very likely to see more in the coming times. This world is harsh and your aid is useful on the battlefield when you must defend your home! While you may not fight as well as Otrek you can hold the line and make them fight for every inch, and an armor of great power is something you can use to make yourself an eternal warden when you must defend Kraka Drakk against the darkness. [Cost: 1 action] If a rune you want requires special ingredients that you don't have access to I will alert you.
- [ ] Choose: Master Rune of Unyielding (Use Greedy Heart instead of Stonehorn Horns), Rune of Fortitude, Rune of Preservation.

This is the original suggestion's rune set up, with the main change being dropping the Stonehorn Horns and just using the Heart. The message here that we are attempting is "This perfectly sealed bastion will make the wearer unyielding, bolstering their fortitude and supporting them in their endeavors." Under discussion are these two further variants.

[ ] [Difficult] The Eternal Bastion Pt. 1: You've had a two close calls in the past two centuries and you know you're very likely to see more in the coming times. This world is harsh and your aid is useful on the battlefield when you must defend your home! While you may not fight as well as Otrek you can hold the line and make them fight for every inch, and an armor of great power is something you can use to make yourself an eternal warden when you must defend Kraka Drakk against the darkness. [Cost: 1 action] If a rune you want requires special ingredients that you don't have access to I will alert you.
- [ ] Choose: Master Rune of Unyielding (Use Greedy Heart instead of Stonehorn Horns), Rune of Fortitude, Rune of Might.

This one I would say has a message like, "This bastion will make the wearer unyielding, their vitality, fortitude and raw might made unending."


[ ] [Difficult] The Eternal Bastion Pt. 1: You've had a two close calls in the past two centuries and you know you're very likely to see more in the coming times. This world is harsh and your aid is useful on the battlefield when you must defend your home! While you may not fight as well as Otrek you can hold the line and make them fight for every inch, and an armor of great power is something you can use to make yourself an eternal warden when you must defend Kraka Drakk against the darkness. [Cost: 1 action] If a rune you want requires special ingredients that you don't have access to I will alert you.
- [ ] Choose: Master Rune of Unyielding (Use Greedy Heart instead of Stonehorn Horns), Rune of Fortitude, Rune of the Stalwart.

This one's message is I think "This bastion will make the wearer unyielding, bolstering their fortitude and ensuring they will never falter in their stalwart guard."

These don't change how long it takes to make the armor, or anything other than trying to refine the Runes used in the thing.

E2: The statements/messages have been updated in a post further down this page.
 
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I've been wondering about the Rune of Impact. With the Heart generating energy, and Impact imparting momentum, basic physics has some interesting implications.
 
EVA-Saiyajin said:
I've been wondering about the Rune of Impact. With the Heart generating energy, and Impact imparting momentum, basic physics has some interesting implications.
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Yeah it does, but unfortunately it doesn't... really have much to do with the "I will stand, tireless and unceasing, against all comers" thing we sort of have going with the suggested runes so far. If you see what I mean?

E: I could see what your suggesting with the Rune of Impact working on like, some kind of hammer with Rune of Speed and Rune of Might using the Heart. But that's a different context and discussion.
 
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BungieONI said:
Yeah it does, but unfortunately it doesn't... really have much to do with the "I will stand, tireless and unceasing, against all comers" thing we sort of have going with the suggested runes so far. If you see what I mean?

E: I could see what your suggesting with the Rune of Impact working on like, some kind of hammer with Rune of Speed and Rune of Might using the Heart. But that's a different context and discussion.
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You're not wrong. I was thinking like an avalanche or such.

It's difficult because there's little consistency with past combos. The basic idea is harmony, but we got things like Rangerstrike and what's on the amulets for the wedding.
 
argenten said:
What about the runes for the Gronti? Idk if we finished working that out either.
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Ymir's proposal was Master Rune of Waking, Rune of Might, Rune of Fortitude. My original proposal basically had those in there with the intent to draw on the endless energy of the heart, both fortitude and might are helped by that, and now that is being used to try and mitigate the loss of the regenerative aspect by trying to hone in on the endless vitality aspect. I think I talked about it a few pages ago last night.
 
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EVA-Saiyajin said:
You're not wrong. I was thinking like an avalanche or such.

It's difficult because there's little consistency with past combos. The basic idea is harmony, but we got things like Rangerstrike and what's on the amulets for the wedding.
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Yeah. My best guess is that a coherent theme gives a bonus around +15-20 on a dc...I dunno, 60? No matter how good the idea is, there's at least some amount of crossing our fingers and hoping.
 
EVA-Saiyajin said:
You're not wrong. I was thinking like an avalanche or such.

It's difficult because there's little consistency with past combos. The basic idea is harmony, but we got things like Rangerstrike and what's on the amulets for the wedding.
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Well, the thing that stands out to me the most from soulcake's explanation is this:
Extrapolating from there Runic Combos as you can likely guess, are the rune magic equivalent of stringing along words to convey a message.
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So we're not just looking for runes that work together and share a theme, but ones that add together to convey a message or meaning greater than their individual parts.
 
BelligerentGnu said:
Yeah. My best guess is that a coherent theme gives a bonus around +15-20 on a dc...I dunno, 60? No matter how good the idea is, there's at least some amount of crossing our fingers and hoping.
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While I agree with the idea behind this, that a coherent theme is a Good Thing, Soul doesn't actually roll for a Combo when we pick the Choose option when he's described how the options work. Unless you meant the Theme choice for Difficult Requests. If you did, ignore meeeee~.


NSMS said:
Well, the thing that stands out to me the most from soulcake's explanation is this:

So we're not just looking for runes that work together and share a theme, but ones that add together to convey a message or meaning greater than their individual parts.
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Speaking of which, for people who haven't seen it what do they think of these three possible statements? I think that's our real litmus test for "is this a possible Combo".

After some consideration for what the Greedy Heart does I think the statements here are:

- [ ] Choose: Master Rune of Unyielding (Use Greedy Heart instead of Stonehorn Horns), Rune of Fortitude, Rune of Preservation.
"This perfectly sealed bastion will make the wearer tireless, bolstering their fortitude and vitality and supporting them in their endeavors."


- [ ] Choose: Master Rune of Unyielding (Use Greedy Heart instead of Stonehorn Horns), Rune of Fortitude, Rune of Might.
"This bastion will make the wearer tireless, their vitality, fortitude and raw might made unending."


- [ ] Choose: Master Rune of Unyielding (Use Greedy Heart instead of Stonehorn Horns), Rune of Fortitude, Rune of the Stalwart.
"This bastion will make the wearer tireless, bolstering their fortitude and ensuring they will never falter in their stalwart guard."
 
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Tinkerer said:
I'm quite willing to write up a plan for the gronti, save that I'm stuck on my phone for the foreseeable future and that not a lot of people seem willing to begin stockpiling for the project, seeing as I want to make it pure Adamant.
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It's not that we don't want it made out of Adamant, an Adamant Gronti would be kickass, but in terms of resources it's just too cost intensive for now. Even armouring the Sky King required, what, 13 Adamant? More? Even assuming that we made the Gronti his size (We'd probably make it bigger, let's be honest), producing something his size out of solid Adamant would require an infinitely greater investment then armouring something that size. Even imagining how many decades or centuries of bars we'd need to hoard to pull off such a project makes me shudder.
 
BungieONI said:
While I agree with the idea behind this, that a coherent theme is a Good Thing, Soul doesn't actually roll for a Combo when we pick the Choose option when he's described how the options work. Unless you meant the Theme choice for Difficult Requests. If you did, ignore meeeee~.



Speaking of which, for people who haven't seen it what do they think of these three possible statements? I think that's our real litmus test for "is this a possible Combo".

After some consideration for what the Greedy Heart does I think the statements here are:

- [ ] Choose: Master Rune of Unyielding (Use Greedy Heart instead of Stonehorn Horns), Rune of Fortitude, Rune of Preservation.
"This perfectly sealed bastion will make the wearer tireless, bolstering their fortitude and vitality and supporting them in their endeavors."


- [ ] Choose: Master Rune of Unyielding (Use Greedy Heart instead of Stonehorn Horns), Rune of Fortitude, Rune of Might.
"This bastion will make the wearer tireless, their vitality, fortitude and raw might made unending."


- [ ] Choose: Master Rune of Unyielding (Use Greedy Heart instead of Stonehorn Horns), Rune of Fortitude, Rune of the Stalwart.
"This bastion will make the wearer tireless, bolstering their fortitude and ensuring they will never falter in their stalwart guard."
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I'm inclined to go for the middle set. Combo aside, I think the fact that we got smacked around like a bearded pinball during the fight with Kholek proves that, frankly, we need to be able to hit above our weight class. Making ourself invincible is all well and good, but considering the density of large, powerful animals and monsters that can be found in the North, being able to return the favour is just as important as being able to survive the hit itself. We want to be a porcupine, not an armadillo.
 
TheDuke said:
I'm inclined to go for the middle set. Combo aside, I think the fact that we got smacked around like a bearded pinball during the fight with Kholek proves that, frankly, we need to be able to hit above our weight class. Making ourself invincible is all well and good, but considering the density of large, powerful animals and monsters that can be found in the North, being able to return the favour is just as important as being able to survive the hit itself. We want to be a porcupine, not an armadillo.
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Thank you for the input! I like all of them but the middle one does have a certain snappy flow to it I think has a fraction more potential than the others to Combo. Kind of a reading flow thing though, and I could probably edit the other two to feel similar so that particular feeling doesn't mean all that much I think. HMMM.

Man I'm really on the fence.
 
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TheDuke said:
I'm inclined to go for the middle set. Combo aside, I think the fact that we got smacked around like a bearded pinball during the fight with Kholek proves that, frankly, we need to be able to hit above our weight class. Making ourself invincible is all well and good, but considering the density of large, powerful animals and monsters that can be found in the North, being able to return the favour is just as important as being able to survive the hit itself. We want to be a porcupine, not an armadillo.
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Well, the idea is that this armour is paired with two weapons -

A warhammer, using MSmiting, Might and Impact,

And an Axe, using MBreaking, Cleaving and Striking.

So we'd have plenty of offensive power to go with the armour. The Bastion is supposed to cover all our physical defensive needs.
 
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