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I'm not going to weigh in on the logic of either side's arguments, but I will ask that everyone read over what they write and really consider if the words they used are polite and won't be inflammatory intentionally or not. You cant account for people's tolerances perfectly but at least try to say your piece without saying things that can be easily construed as overly dismissive of the other side of the argument, thank you.

Please endeavour to be cordial. :^)
 
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That's the description for steel. I'm not sure that any part of that says "will protect against indigestion." I don't think steel provides incorruptibility to the wearer; I think it does that for the armor.

So it'll prevent the armor from being melted by Troll acid or mutated by a bolt of change from a Tzeentchian daemon, sure. But eating bad stuff is still eating bad stuff. And being hit by a nasty spell is still being hit by a nasty spell.
Dude now you're just being blatantly obtuse.

S'called the SPELLeater Rune. Can a combo change what it takes in/absorbs? well ????? but ON ITS OWN. no.
When You're being so bad about this stuff Soulcake felt compelled to step in and correct you about your faulty assumptions maybe you should stop speaking so authoritatively?

I was tolerant of you having a laugh at my expense for hijacking the Ymir idea for your Ancestor Idol


Why don't you try and reciprocate that good faith a little bit?
 
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So when Snorri made his workshop, he made statues of Thungi in it. And mentioned it is traditional.

Ancestor Gods are the ones establishing traditions.

What are the chance Thungi added statues to tradition list bc he enjoys watching younglings work his art?
 
Maybe just don't have full turns of crafting? Have one action per turn set so Snorri is outside doing stuff. The only reason we didn't know anything was because we spent all 5 AP on crafting and went straight to the wedding to present the commissions.

We make sure not to do that during turns we have a fair idea something big is going to happen means we won't be out of the loop.
Yea but most of the projects have lined up will take years, regardless. Maybe give the most senior runesmith a "Snorri signal" for stuff he can't handle himself?
Thing is that really shouldn't be a problem since we would still be spending the entire turn which lasts ten years. Nothing really would have happened since we would still been working on artifacts. Again, politics is not our freaking job. Pretty sure that Snorri getting berated was for fluff. Realistically it didn't affect anything and we would just learn about it at the end of the turn or the start of the next one.
 
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Dude now you're just being blatantly obtuse.

When You're being so bad about this stuff Soulcake felt compelled to step in and correct you about your faulty assumptions maybe you should stop speaking so authoritatively?

I was tolerant of you having a laugh at my expense for hijacking the Ymir idea for your Ancestor Idol

Why don't you try and reciprocate that good faith a little bit?
Uh, I read that bit too but... I don't... really see how it's a slam dunk to my confusion about the Master Rune of Steel? I mean, I took that to mean that pairing it with, like, a Rune of Cold or Fire would mean have the obvious effect, but...

*reads again* *thinks* Hmm. Hmmm... Okay I think I see what you're talking about and why you'd think it'd work out that way. You're thinking that Steel shrugs off rust and corruption, and Spelleater takes in spells... that together this means Spelleater will start taking in the stuff that Steel shrugs off and resists? Did I get that right?

It wasn't obvious to me, no. Sorry?

I was under the impression that the Runes themselves would have to be, like... a Rune of Cold or Fire or Warding -- the kind of rune that looks and feels like it shrugs off energies or elements, right? -- in order for the Spelleater rune's function to kick in and make use of that absorbed cold/heat/lightning/etc. Or a Rune of Sound or Reflection or something.

I didn't think that it'd work easily with any and every type of rune -- that just pairing it with, like, a Rune of Steel or Gromril or Fortitude or whatever would also be a very big change to how the Spelleater rune works? I figured that you'd just end up with an item that executes its runic properties individually sorta. Like the Steel/Fortitude/etc rune doing its effect. And the Spelleater Rune protecting from spells.

At best, I think the Spelleater rune might eat spells, and shift that power around to... provide more power to the Master Rune of Steel and Rune of Accuracy, I assume.

As far as good faith efforts and generosity goes though, I've actually been sitting here going "Hmm, on second thought that Accuracy + Spelleater thing might have something to it... Is it possible to actually achieve some kind of magical or wind-controlling effects here? It needs a proper third rune though, not sure what that'd be. Maybe another Spellbreaker/binder rune but, no... If only there were a Rune associated with Wind or Storms that'd be great. ... But the Master Rune of Steel is the odd man out here though, totally out of place. It's just weird. Why is it here and how is it supposed to contribute to some kind of 'rule the skies' theme or whatever it was?" So I have been assuming good faith efforts on other people's parts. It's just that... this particular part with the Master Rune of Steel was completely weird to me? It was the weirdest of the ideas, and seemed to not make everything work together, so...

And I wasn't having a laugh at anybody or hijacking anything. I just ended up accidentally running into some irony. That, at the time the discussion topic was about Ymir as an Icon of Ymir, I was being reminded and inspired by a few old words that'd stayed with me -- "artificial ancestor." And so I edited the post and quoted that. And then I edited it again like 10 seconds later; because I had went and searched it right afterwards out of curiosity after using that quote, wondering who had said it, and it turned out that it was the very guy I was arguing with, and I was like "Huh oh wow this is an ironic surprise." Nobody was making fun of you man. Or even hijacking an idea necessarily. Because heck. BungieONI seemed to scan the mood of the thread later on, went "Well people seem to be objecting to this idea", and so it seems like the Ymir-with-lots-of-Grimnir-runes idea got shelved a bit. So that seemed to be that for the lots-of-Grimnir-runes-on-Ymir idea.
 
Thing is that really shouldn't be a problem since we would still be spending the entire turn which lasts ten years. Nothing really would have happened since we would still been working on artifacts. Again, politics is not our freaking job. Pretty sure that Snorri getting berated was for fluff. Realistically it didn't affect anything and we would just learn about it at the end of the turn or the start of the next one.
The complaint was that the hold was under siege for 8 years and Snorri didn't really notice. I think they wanted some form of event interruption where Snorri would go man the walls or something. I figure we don't spend all our AP on crafting and ensure we have 1 AP either taking commissions or doing something outside the workshop and we'd know for sure if something big is happening in the hold. Like the siege continuing.

I genuinely don't care for politics. Especially in this quest where it isn't part of being a Rune Lord. Religious matters? I can see that falling under Snorri's purview because Runesmiths are technically priests of Thungni. But yeah, politics do not interest me here. Making cool shit does.
 
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The complaint was that the hold was under siege for 8 years and Snorri didn't really notice. I think they wanted some form of event interruption where Snorri would go man the walls or something. I figure we don't spend all our AP on crafting and ensure we have 1 AP either taking commissions or doing something outside the workshop and we'd know for sure if something big is happening in the hold. Like the siege continuing.

I genuinely don't care for politics. Especially in this quest where it isn't part of being a Rune Lord. Religious matters? I can see that falling under Snorri's purview because Runesmiths are technically priests of Thungni. But yeah, politics do not interest me here. Making cool shit does.
But us being on the walls is pretty much a waste of our talents considering that there are literally an army of Dwarfs that can do that job. We are a Runelord, spending literally years if not decades locked away researching stuff is actually pretty damn common for Runelords. Again, we don't need to freaking do everything and other people can do stuff without us needing to get involved all the damn time. People on this thread seem to have a bad habit out of making mountains out of molehills.

People need to stop overreacting to every single thing since as mentioned what happened wasn't really a big deal and we were making legendary and epic artifacts.
 
To be fair, Runelords are very important to Dwarf battles? They are the major, powerful, spellcasters and counterspellers. Note how Snorri made daemons fall out of the sky, and friendly forces fight better, just by tapping a rune.

Like, in game terms if you'll excuse me, Snorri is a Lord unit in the army. If a siege is happening, helping out with it would be expected for a Runelord. And this wasn't a minor siege. 2 layers were breached.

Though if by "being on the walls" you mean "doing normal sentry duty" then yeah. (Though, Snorri is also the sort of person who I could see grabbing a cloak and sneakily being a sentry on watch, without anybody realizing he's a Runelord. He's done that sort of thing before, when he was training his apprentices for example. Snorri does more things than just research, craft, and pursue his religious art after all. He has hobbies and oddities and quirks. And also, you're not always 'on the job' 100% of the time.)
 
But us being on the walls is pretty much a waste of our talents considering that there are literally an army of Dwarfs that can do that job.
Given that most of the time we're on the walls enemy spells take a -25 and all other Runesmiths get +5. No there isn't someone who can do what we do in the field, unless there was another Runelord in the refugees..

Snorri is irreplaceable on the walls or in the forge, the question should be will whatever we forge make a greater impact on the siege than we would have been if we'd been there.
 
But us being on the walls is pretty much a waste of our talents considering that there are literally an army of Dwarfs that can do that job. We are a Runelord, spending literally years if not decades locked away researching stuff is actually pretty damn common for Runelords.
I'll admit that Runelords weren't the best anti magic combatants until the Anvil of Doom was introduced but they were still the go to anti casters for the Dwarf armies. And a lot of daemons use magic and need Runesmiths, Lords or otherwise, to dispel.

So yeah, Snorri being a scout or vanguard or watchmen? Not really needed. Acting in his capacity as a Runelord and dispelling enemy magic? Entirely within his purview.
 
Given that most of the time we're on the walls enemy spells take a -25 and all other Runesmiths get +5. No there isn't someone who can do what we do in the field, unless there was another Runelord in the refugees..

Snorri is irreplaceable on the walls or in the forge, the question should be will whatever we forge make a greater impact on the siege than we would have been if we'd been there.
I'd say that Snorri is more useful in the Forge since he can make things that would be a huge combat multiplier. Example being making anti-magic banners that affect the entire army. Then of course upping the power of our super combatants. The Cloaks made for the King and Prince alone are pretty damn helpful since they not only act as AOE against enemies but also protect their allies. Then we have Kholek coming at which point we really need to have the armor for the Sky King since him dying would be really bad for us and that's not mentioning needing to deal with Kholek himself.
 
I'd say that Snorri is more useful in the Forge since he can make things that would be a huge combat multiplier. Example being making anti-magic banners that affect the entire army. Then of course upping the power of our super combatants. The Cloaks made for the King and Prince alone are pretty damn helpful since they not only act as AOE against enemies but also protect their allies. Then we have Kholek coming at which point we really need to have the armor for the Sky King since him dying would be really bad for us and that's not mentioning needing to deal with Kholek himself.
But if the siege ends before the item is finished it was all worthless.

Personally I think the best solution is that Snorri should be churning out Rune weapons, a simple enough task that he won't need to go into sleep deprivation and people can interrupt him and he can drop it if theres a major assault. And honestly Snorri is the only person who could probably equip a throng by himself.
 
Though if by "being on the walls" you mean "doing normal sentry duty" then yeah. (Though, Snorri is also the sort of person who I could see grabbing a cloak and sneakily being a sentry on watch, without anybody realizing he's a Runelord. He's done that sort of thing before, when he was training his apprentices for example. Snorri does more things than just research, craft, and pursue his religious art after all. He has hobbies and oddities and quirks. And also, you're not always 'on the job' 100% of the time.)
For the record I don't mind Snorri having more of a personality and having things like hobbies that he is doing between research and projects. It's more that people keep complaining about Snorri 'needing to do everything' while ignoring that his talents are in fact helping the hold. An example is making artifacts that better protect the King and Prince. Which is way more important than people probably realize since they likely forgot about the King and Prince getting so injured that the Throng ended up acting in a weakened state for 5 years at the least due to the Elder Wyrm. In fact that probably played a role in 2 of the walls falling.
 
Also no damn fear mongering. And you are with the way you structured the bolded part to act like the king would definitely not be able to help instead of maybe.

I see accusations of fear mongering as being equivilent to claims that the economic warnings of Brexit were Project Fear, an attempt to dodge a point you can't answer, and something that discredits the accuser for using this particularly low form of rhetorical device, not the argument they are attacking.

Note the word 'probably' in the sentence you quote but proceed to ignore in favour of trying to throw mud.

Also should point out that this is golden age Kholek so he likely isn't as big as his End Times counterpart.

This wasn't during the End Time?

Also, Kholek is already over ten thousands years old. He's probably already full sized.
 
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But if the siege ends before the item is finished it was all worthless.

Personally I think the best solution is that Snorri should be churning out Rune weapons, a simple enough task that he won't need to go into sleep deprivation and people can interrupt him and he can drop it if theres a major assault. And honestly Snorri is the only person who could probably equip a throng by himself.
Again, mechanically it does not change things since turns are supposed to last long. And it's been repeatedly mentioned that the daemon incursions were going to last decades and even Snorri noted that the best case was to just weather it until it was done. Besides that we literally already equipped the Throng with runic weapons with the help of many runelords. And again people seem to completely forget that we can make things like the literal anti magic banner so that the armies aren't reliant on Snorri to dispel enemy magic.

Also pretty sure that the thread is going to want to make the Sky Kings armor next turn considering that Kholek is coming.

Also no freaking crippling us by not making artifacts. Seriously, it's freaking Runelord trait and while Snorri going through sleep deprivation would probably be a problem he isn't human and in fact even trains his apprentices to work through such things.
 
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And again people seem to completely forget that we can make things like the literal anti magic banner so that the armies aren't reliant on Snorri to dispel enemy magic.
People aren't forgetting, but if you think a banner will ever be as good as a hero then I think the problem is that you're just working with different expectations to the rest of us.
 
I don't think Snorri should be on the walls yet, we have too much to do. Just that he shouldn't enter complete seclusion while in his workshop.
Maybe putting in an appearance to herd some runesmiths, and know about major pushes being made.
He's already grumbled about being caught flat footed by local developments. A long siege like we currently are under is not something someone in Snorri's position can afford to be completely ignorant about. We don't need to start hammering demons ourselves. Just a token of attention to not be caught completely flatfooted.
 
To be fair, Runelords are very important to Dwarf battles? They are the major, powerful, spellcasters and counterspellers. Note how Snorri made daemons fall out of the sky, and friendly forces fight better, just by tapping a rune.

Like, in game terms if you'll excuse me, Snorri is a Lord unit in the army. If a siege is happening, helping out with it would be expected for a Runelord. And this wasn't a minor siege. 2 layers were breached.

Though if by "being on the walls" you mean "doing normal sentry duty" then yeah. (Though, Snorri is also the sort of person who I could see grabbing a cloak and sneakily being a sentry on watch, without anybody realizing he's a Runelord. He's done that sort of thing before, when he was training his apprentices for example. Snorri does more things than just research, craft, and pursue his religious art after all. He has hobbies and oddities and quirks. And also, you're not always 'on the job' 100% of the time.)
tbf I think we're running into the issue of the QM showing the pc doing cool shit while realistically there's a lot of other people doing the same shit. We're in a hold that went as ham as it could in terms of runesmith quantity as a result of the King being shown how important they are when he was a thane. So really those walls should have some amount of Rune smith support at all time cause the King went out of his way to get as many of our fellows in the hold as he could.
 
Thinking about KotS armor.

Considering his absurd regen, focusing on defence seems wasteful to me, gromril armor is already plenty tough besides runes or no runes. Also he's a flier, not a tank.

But Gromril armor + Master Rune of Gromril seems like a powerful combo.

And then it occured to me, Gromril comes from meteorites.

Would a different take on the Meteorfall combo (Master Rune of Conduction, Rune of Impact, Rune of Might) for armor be possible, for legendary dive attacks?


On another note, given the connection between our allied Gryffons and Greed (they became what they are by eating his progenies hearts), using his heart on King of the Sky seems very appeopriate and likely to result in powerful synergy. And as I understand it what we give him he will repay fairly, likely resulting in a different t5 ingredient and more besides.
 
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Thinking about KotS armor.

Considering his absurd regen, focusing on defence seems wasteful to me, gromril armor is already plenty tough besides runes or no runes. Also he's a flier, not a tank.

But Gromril armor + Master Rune of Gromril seems like a powerful combo.

And then it occured to me, Gromril comes from meteorites.

Would a different take on the Meteorfall combo (Master Rune of Conduction, Rune of Impact, Rune of Might) for armor be possible, for legendary dive attacks?


On another note, given the connection between our allied Gryffons and Greed (they became what they are by eating his progenies hearts), using his heart on King of the Sky seems very appeopriate and likely to result in powerful synergy. And as I understand it what we give him he will repay fairly, likely resulting in a different t5 ingredient and more besides.

My proposal was another take on the meteor concept, which is what the gromril was like before it fell to earth, when it was orbiting in the cold, unchanging void of space. Master Rune of Gromril, Rune of Cold, Rune of Preservation. Particularly as the King of the Skies probably has cold powers, and we have good ingredients in the form of the frostdrake. This should fit well together, it's a natural and appropriate theme that can also work with other set items about astronomical phenomena, Preservation defends him from some of the worse threats for him, and Master Rune of Gromril hopefully makes the armour strong enough to survive.

The KotS is going up against a massively potent physical combatant. He will be the major threat. As will things like anti-monster specced Bloodthirsters. We have lots and lots of runesmiths in Kraka Drakk. We can use the standard method of dwarven anti-magic defence, where more junior runesmiths spam Spellbreaker runes. We also have Snorri himself with his bonuses against enemy magic use. Also of note is that Spelleater and Spellbreaker are anti-spell runes, not anti-magic runes. I wouldn't expect them to block a dragon's ability to fly or a Shaggoth's lightning, as they aren't spells, they're something else. Spells are a particular class of thing. Not all of them use the Winds of Magic, for example, that's just one potential energy source.

The King of the Skies is strong and tough, but Kholek could well be five times his size and have a legendarily powerful magic weapon that magnifies the damage of his blows.

On the sharing point, I think the precedent of the Frostdrake is that the KotS is pretty generous with his allies.
 
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My proposal was another take on the meteor concept, which is what the gromril was like before it fell to earth, when it was orbiting in the cold, unchanging void of space. Master Rune of Gromril, Rune of Cold, Rune of Preservation. Particularly as the King of the Skies probably has cold powers, and we have good ingredients in the form of the frostdrake. This should fit well together, it's a natural and appropriate theme that can also work with other set items about astronomical phenomena, Preservation defends him from some of the worse threats for him, and Master Rune of Gromril hopefully makes the armour strong enough to survive.
An interesting idea. Though, when KotS was shown fighting it was with immensely powerful dive attacks and lighting, I don't recall any cold attacks, so while he might be capable of them he presumably doesn't use them much for some reason.

Or perhaps he has gained them from eating the elder ice dragons heart, that would make a lot of sense.

I don't know the Rune of Preservation does, googling... ah, protection from attacks that autokill if they hit. Are those a thing in this quest? If not, how would that translate? I am also not sure how thematic this is to an asteroid.
 
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8 years of siege amd we only lost 2 walls. With 5 more we can last 2-3 turns. That is way longer then the other holds right? Looks like even though we have the same number of layers, ours are reinforced to an insane degree.

If you Siege Kraka Drakk, your going to have a bad time.


That's just the exterior defences, dwarf holds can and do hold out for centuries.
 
I wouldn't trust that to make plans around. The fact that we got a cutaway to Kholek seeking a way into the Underway makes me think we're more pressed for time than 'ten turns or more'.
 
Kinda wonder if we could play up the rest of the storms bit for the KoS. Something that does hail and wind? Perhaps a hurricane imitation?

As scary as the big bad is, he'd be far less scary covered in ice or cut to pieces by wind.
 
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