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I'm not going to weigh in on the logic of either side's arguments, but I will ask that everyone read over what they write and really consider if the words they used are polite and won't be inflammatory intentionally or not. You cant account for people's tolerances perfectly but at least try to say your piece without saying things that can be easily construed as overly dismissive of the other side of the argument, thank you.

Please endeavour to be cordial. :^)
 
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The Gauntlets on the King's armor count as enough of a weapon to be enchanted with a weapon rune. It looks like one of the Grey areas of the magic system.

I still disagree with using the precious Master Rune slot on the armor for a weapon rune though. Maybe we could make weapons and armor?


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Given KoS is already wearing a talisman (Ancestors Torc), i don't think we can fit another on a Griffon, i'm open to creative ideas, of course
Someone can have two Talismans. Soul said there was an armor slot, 2 weapon slots, a talisman slot, and a Banner/talisman slot. You can have 2 talismans but not 2 Banners.
 
So the way I see it is thus:

Gauntlets meant to be a weapon are classed as the users Weapon. Full three set of Runes.
Armor designed to be the users armor are classed as the users Armor. Full three set of Runes.

Basically, I take souls post to be saying that "yeah fist weapons get counted as weapons, not armor by the Runes" since that makes the entire system hang together consistently.

So we're going with a two piece set?

Cool, how's M.R of Currents(Dragon Brain), Rune of Demonslaying and <Something else> on the Claws, and M.R of Gromril, Warding and Spellbreaking on the Armor.
The third rune on the Claws might be Striking or Dragonslaying. Open to suggestions.

Someone can have two Talismans. Soul said there was an armor slot, 2 weapon slots, a talisman slot, and a Banner/talisman slot. You can have 2 talismans but not 2 Banners.
Yep i read that. Just not sure what form they would take on an armored Griffon. Anklet would be asymmetrical, Rings don't match with talons, A tail ring?
 
So we're going with a two piece set?

Cool, how's M.R of Currents(Dragon Brain), Rune of Demonslaying and <Something else> on the Claws, and M.R of Gromril, Warding and Spellbreaking on the Armor.
The third rune on the Claws might be Striking or Dragonslaying. Open to suggestions.
I'm thinking Master Rune of Currents (Dragon Brain), Rune of Lightning, Rune of Cold for stormy blizzard possibilities since the Master Rune of Currents with Dragon Brain will become colder and more powerful. Or Master Rune of Currents (dragon brain), Rune of Cold, Rune of Cleaving. "Cold winds that can cleave through the hardest armor" and all that.

Armor wise I'm thinking the Master Rune of Steel is actually more useful here in terms of his need for defenses against both magic and hard hits so: Master Rune of Steel (Prevents degradation), Rune of Warding (what creates the shield in our Conversion combo), Rune of Spellbreaking (which breaks and weakens spells and makes the bearer near immune to magical attacks). "This armor shall not degrade or fail in warding away foul magic from the user" Such an armor should protect him very well from magic and provide him with a shield as he fights and physical defense is handled by the Pure Gromril and Dragonbone and Dragonhide we can use in its construction and plausibly the shield as well (I'm not sure on this part tbh, but seems relatively plausible).

The fluff on the wiki of the Master Rune of Steel describes the various metals of an armor fusing and alloying together like so:

Article:
Master Rune of Steel
- Once this rune has been forged, it binds metals together making them more resilient. Armour with this rune never rusts through weathering or age.

Which loosely connects to its fluff in our rune list.

Article:
Master Rune of Steel: This armour will suffer no rust, no degradation natural or unnatural. Necessary Ingredients:[T2] Lodesteel


Article:
Master Rune of Gromril: The armour becomes near inviolate to battle damage, nothing short of the most titanic blows can force it to move or contort. Necessary Ingredients: [T3] Pure Gromril


The Master Rune of Gromril's fluff though is more about making the armor be really really tough and straight physical protection, and comparing the two bits of description I think the Master Rune of Steel is more about magical protection. Its worth remembering that Pure Gromril is already pretty tough and the Master Rune of Steel talks about making things "more resilient" and "Suffer no degredation". Plus if we have an armor that is meant to ward away magic with a shield then he has a lot less to worry about from the Dragon Ogres.
 
I think this is the first time my vote got counted, but also didn't the plans end up converging on identical? (Or enough nearly so that I'm having trouble picking out the difference.)

That's probably a bad sign- means there weren't enough interesting real choices to be made.
 
Seems more everyone's responding to the King getting hit by rushing getting him better armor than "no real choices".

Sorta like how I'm fully expecting people to rush the Sky King's armor next turn, given Kholek Fucking Suneater is incoming.

When war comes, decisions narrow harshly.
 
I think this is the first time my vote got counted, but also didn't the plans end up converging on identical? (Or enough nearly so that I'm having trouble picking out the difference.)

That's probably a bad sign- means there weren't enough interesting real choices to be made.

Yeah. To my regret as I would have preferred to make the entire panoply out of adamant, any realistic chance of not doing armor this turn evaporated after our throng got knocked about by the dragon.
 
I'm thinking Master Rune of Currents (Dragon Brain), Rune of Lightning, Rune of Cold for stormy blizzard possibilities since the Master Rune of Currents with Dragon Brain will become colder and more powerful. Or Master Rune of Currents (dragon brain), Rune of Cold, Rune of Cleaving. "Cold winds that can cleave through the hardest armor" and all that.
not saying that getting a combo on the runes is bad, but given that we're about to face lots of monsters and demons, I think gearing up by beast type (i.e. demon and dragonslaying) will be more effective than a cold themed weapon. I'm even tempted to steer away from the M.R of Currents and towards the M.R. of Smiting.

Anything that's tough enough to not be oneshotted by the KoS... probably needs to be hit harder. MUCH HARDER.

Idk about the armor... does Pure Gromril even rust? MR of steel seems a bit ... meh. Protection from magical degradation is probably handled by the rune of spell breaking. But not getting into an argument about that...
 
I think this is the first time my vote got counted, but also didn't the plans end up converging on identical? (Or enough nearly so that I'm having trouble picking out the difference.)

That's probably a bad sign- means there weren't enough interesting real choices to be made.
All it really indicates is that the two most prominent plan makes me and Captain Spatula picked up on the same desires of the thread and that there was a decent consensus on those desires. People wanted to make the armor and the dowry in response to what happened and it wasn't particularly difficult to pick that up and run with it.

Next turn it will probably be the Sky King's armor because the desire to stop having his favor hanging unused is starting to swell. Depending on how things shake out the banner might also get made that turn.


not saying that getting a combo on the runes is bad, but given that we're about to face lots of monsters and demons, I think gearing up by beast type (i.e. demon and dragonslaying) will be more effective than a cold themed weapon. I'm even tempted to steer away from the M.R of Currents and towards the M.R. of Smiting.

Anything that's tough enough to not be oneshotted by the KoS... probably needs to be hit harder. MUCH HARDER.

Idk about the armor... does Pure Gromril even rust? MR of steel seems a bit ... meh. Protection from magical degradation is probably handled by the rune of spell breaking. But not getting into an argument about that...
Basically in my mind, hitting harder only carries so far when one of our ingredients we know will make one of our master rune options better and that master rune is pretty good at cutting through thick hide or tough defenses.

Or to put it another way: Master Rune of Smiting doesn't have a supporting ingredient beyond its normal one, whereas Currents does.
 
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I think your analysis that Steel armour runes works against magic is flawed, keeping in mind the idea that Khazalid is rather literal, Steel isn't known for having anti magic properties at all. It is known for in certain forms for its anti corrosion properties. So I expect the Master rune of steel to simply make the armour simply better at its basic function rather than doing anything so esoteric at best it will resist deformation from attacks significantly better than armour of its make and quality should and MIGHT at the very highest echelons of skill for a runesmith confer some resistance to gold order magic decay but then you'd be talking about the Thungni and his direct heirs.
 
I think your analysis that Steel armour runes works against magic is flawed, keeping in mind the idea that Khazalid is rather literal, Steel isn't known for having anti magic properties at all. It is known for in certain forms for its anti corrosion properties. So I expect the Master rune of steel to simply make the armour simply better at its basic function rather than doing anything so esoteric at best it will resist deformation from attacks significantly better than armour of its make and quality should and MIGHT at the very highest echelons of skill for a runesmith confer some resistance to gold order magic decay but then you'd be talking about the Thungni and his direct heirs.
Its fluff directly states that it prevents the armor from decaying due to unnatural effects:

Master Rune of Steel: This armour will suffer no rust, no degradation natural or unnatural. Necessary Ingredients:[T2] Lodesteel
"No degradation natural or unnatural" and magic is definitely unnatural.

Dwarves would obviously be concerned about armor breaking down due to Nurglite energies rusting away their craft and this is basically the rune to answer that.
 
I really hope we're going to make sure we include the three bars of adamant in the Sky King's Armour required to give the runes the strength bonus.

Given the calibre of threat we need the Sky King to fight - see the frostwyrm we needed him to kill next turn, this is something that we really need to go all out on. And yes, that should mean getting him to find a T5 ingredient to include in his own armour. Making it that much more likely he lives to save the Throng from being massacred another day seems more important that trying to score an extra T5 ingredient to me. Him surviving the Coming of Chaos also has all sorts of later potential for trade as well. When it comes down to it, we we see with the King and his heir, dwarf royalty is replacable, I don't think the King od the SKies is, anymore than the dwarves' own Ancestor Gods.

We should probably invest as many actions in it as we can afford, as the armour is a force multiplier, and the King of the Skies has a lot of force to multiply.

On more personal terms, as the armour is part of the same panoply as something that's probably literally made by Thungni, out contribution will be overshadowed anyway, but anything that we presume to go in the same set of equipment should be our best work.

Its fluff directly states that it prevents the armor from decaying due to unnatural effects:


"No degradation natural or unnatural" and magic is definitely unnatural.

Dwarves would obviously be concerned about armor breaking down due to Nurglite energies rusting away their craft and this is basically the rune to answer that.

The armour would probably be fine. The wearer, less so.
 
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Its fluff directly states that it prevents the armor from decaying due to unnatural effects:


"No degradation natural or unnatural" and magic is definitely unnatural.

Dwarves would obviously be concerned about armor breaking down due to Nurglite energies rusting away their craft and this is basically the rune to answer that.
Would Pure Gromril even break down though? And I am wondering what combo we would even go with for the armor. I mean even if we ask for some T5 reagent we dont really have any special Armor Master Runes apart from the two.

So apart from using Adamant as the reagent for the Master Rune of Gromril for the Pure Gromril armor I dont really have any ideas for it. The claws get the T5 Dragon Brain but that's a separate piece.
 
So do we have anything to counter Kholek ? Maybe something to prevent him from consuming lightning ?

A huge lightning rod to conduct all the energy and deny it to him would probably anger him.
 
Basically in my mind, hitting harder only carries so far when one of our ingredients we know will make one of our master rune options better and that master rune is pretty good at cutting through thick hide or tough defenses.

Or to put it another way: Master Rune of Smiting doesn't have a supporting ingredient beyond its normal one, whereas Currents does.

My point is, that while M.R. of Currents can be boosted by Dragon Brain, it's possible that for the upcoming fights, the basic M.R. of Smiting might be more effective. The boosted M.R. of Currents rune might is probably the most individually powerful rune we can make, and give a bigger flat bonus. But tactically, we want the KoS to be killing big things, greater demons and dragons, where the three runes i suggested might be more effective than the combo being proposed.


So do we have anything to counter Kholek ? Maybe something to prevent him from consuming lightning ?

A huge lightning rod to conduct all the energy and deny it to him would probably anger him.
IC, we don't know Kholek is leading the horde, so that would be metagaming. I don't even know of the Dragon ogre's pact with the gods (lightning eating) is common knowledge. The KoS might be able to wrest control of the skies from Kholek though.
 
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The armour would probably be fine. The wearer, less so.
Armor's purpose is to protect the wearer. If you include Warding and Spellbreaking onto armor with the Master Rune of Steel, both of those are meant to the wearer of the armor. The spellbreaking rune says that directly on the Rune List spreadsheet.

Though this like idea of the Master Rune of Steel being effectively not worth using is a problem, but there's an easy fix: @soulcake what is the point of the Master Rune of Steel in Snorri's mind? What does it provide to the armor and the wearer of that armor.

Would Pure Gromril even break down though? And I am wondering what combo we would even go with for the armor. I mean even if we ask for some T5 reagent we dont really have any special Armor Master Runes apart from the two.

So apart from using Adamant as the reagent for the Master Rune of Gromril for the Pure Gromril armor I dont really have any ideas for it. The claws get the T5 Dragon Brain but that's a separate piece.
Yes? It's not magic resistant like Adamant is. It won't break down when it comes mundane stuff more than likely but because it isn't magic resistant a Nurglite could totally point at it and zap it to make it corrode. It just might take them more effort compared to a more normal material.

The Master Rune of Gromril in all of its instances so far has been to increase the physical toughness of whatever armor it is put on. It is a very straightforward rune. The Master Rune of Steel I would argue is less so, which is why it comes across as meh.

My point is, that while M.R. of Currents can be boosted by Dragon Brain, it's possible that for the upcoming fights, the basic M.R. of Smiting might be more effective. The boosted M.R. of Currents rune might is probably the most individually powerful rune we can make, and give a bigger flat bonus. But tactically, we want the KoS to be killing big things, greater demons and dragons, where the three runes i suggested might be more effective than the combo being proposed.
Perhaps but we do know that Combos are generally more powerful than non-Combos, similar Combos are required for set bonuses, and we can make the Master Rune of Currents better than normal. Plus one of the main things defending big gribblies is either sheer mass or armor, and the Master Rune of Currents is about not being blocked, being faster and being sharper. That sort of thing can get around the defenses of gribblies, allowing the KoS to leverage his strength against the softer squishy bits.

Master Rune of Smiting, Rune of Daemonslaying, Rune of Dragonslaying in my mind might equal the advantages of the hypothetical Master Rune of Currents (Dragon Brain), Rune of Cold, Rune of Cleaving, cold based Combo in the specific situation of fighting big gribblies if it made a sort of Monster Slayer Combo. Like you have a point that big monsters are a general issue and what we can expect the KoS to fight, and there's a possibility your thing might combo. I would be happy to test both of them and go with the one that combos.
 
Would Pure Gromril even break down though? And I am wondering what combo we would even go with for the armor. I mean even if we ask for some T5 reagent we dont really have any special Armor Master Runes apart from the two.

So apart from using Adamant as the reagent for the Master Rune of Gromril for the Pure Gromril armor I dont really have any ideas for it. The claws get the T5 Dragon Brain but that's a separate piece.

We know that T5 ingredients can get other special bonuses.

As I say above we should also probably take the option to make composite armour for the Sky King, with three bars of adamant to get the boost to runic strength, even if we're not using the Master Rune of Gromril. The armour probably needs a Rune of Preservation to stop insta-death attacks. As for other runes, I wonder if we can make him something with triple Rune of Fortitude (a banner/cloak) to stop massively damaging attacks. Of course, that means he can't get a Master Rune of Taunting.

As a side note, in the long run I'd like to see if we can make a Master Rune of the Sky King, given physical gods seem to be able to be used as the basis for them.

Master Rune of Smiting, Rune of Daemonslaying, Rune of Dragonslaying in my mind might equal the advantages of the hypothetical Master Rune of Currents (Dragon Brain), Rune of Cold, Rune of Cleaving, cold based Combo in the specific situation of fighting big gribblies if it made a sort of Monster Slayer Combo. Like you have a point that big monsters are a general issue and what we can expect the KoS to fight, and there's a possibility your thing might combo. I would be happy to test both of them and go with the one that combos.

Just thinking about the combos, what would you think of a double Rune of Cold?

Actually, @soulcake, what happened to the dragon's claws and fangs?
 
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We know that T5 ingredients can get other special bonuses.

As I say above we should also probably take the option to make composite armour for the Sky King, with three bars of adamant to get the boost to runic strength, even if we're not using the Master Rune of Gromril. The armour probably needs a Rune of Preservation to stop insta-death attacks. As for other runes, I wonder if we can make him something with triple Rune of Fortitude (a banner/cloak) to stop massively damaging attacks.

As a side note, in the long run I'd like to see if we can make a Master Rune of the Sky King, given physical gods seem to be able to be used as the basis for them.
The three bars of Adamant are going into Otrek's armor. We don't have any adamant left, and the KoS's armor would need 12/16 (i don't remember which) bars to get the Rune boost. That's not practical given the timeframe of the war.
Master Rune of Smiting, Rune of Daemonslaying, Rune of Dragonslaying in my mind might equal the advantages of the hypothetical Master Rune of Currents (Dragon Brain), Rune of Cold, Rune of Cleaving, cold based Combo in the specific situation of fighting big gribblies if it made a sort of Monster Slayer Combo. Like you have a point that big monsters are a general issue and what we can expect the KoS to fight, and there's a possibility your thing might combo. I would be happy to test both of them and go with the one that combos.
Ehh, I just hope I can get it a fair shot at being tested; I can't stay up to argue for it. A lot of people are set on a Currents combo, probably because we've had such a surplus of Griffon brains and Dragon brains.
 
Though this like idea of the Master Rune of Steel being effectively not worth using is a problem, but there's an easy fix: @soulcake what is the point of the Master Rune of Steel in Snorri's mind? What does it provide to the armor and the wearer of that armor.
In terms of protective improvement, its less than the Master Rune of Gromril. If you hadn't lucked in on finding a Gromril mine and refining it into Pure Gromril the Master Rune of Steel would've likely been your bread and butter protective Rune considering Lodesteel is an easier item to order. Combo wise I will say the Master Rune of Steel does combo into some things the Master Rune of Gromril wouldn't.

TLDR:
On its own, its a cheaper version of the Master Rune of Gromril
In a combo, ????
 
The three bars of Adamant are going into Otrek's armor. We don't have any adamant left, and the KoS's armor would need 12/16 (i don't remember which) bars to get the Rune boost. That's not practical given the timeframe of the war.

No it wouldn't.

soulcake told us that we could make composite armour for the Sky King with three bars of adamant that would grant the bonus to rune strength, and make the rest of the armour of something else. We have both gromril and T4 dragonscale.

In terms of protective improvement, its less than the Master Rune of Gromril. If you hadn't lucked in on finding a Gromril mine and refining it into Pure Gromril the Master Rune of Steel would've likely been your bread and butter protective Rune considering Lodesteel is an easier item to order. Combo wise I will say the Master Rune of Steel does combo into some things the Master Rune of Gromril wouldn't.

TLDR:
On its own, its a cheaper version of the Master Rune of Gromril
In a combo, ????

Presumably, the MAster Rune of Gromril, combos into things the Master Rune of Steel doesn't as well.
 
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No it wouldn't.

soulcake told us that we could make composite armour for the Sky King with three bars of adamant that would grant the bonus to rune strength, and make the rest of the armour of something else. We have both gromril and T4 dragonscale.
Still a moot point given we don't have any more adamant. Good to know, but won't come into play for the KoS' armor
 
Anyone else interested in what a potential combo of Master Rune of Adamant, Rune of Gromril, Rune of Steel would do?
 
Still a moot point given we don't have any more adamant. Good to know, but won't come into play for the KoS' armor

The King of the Skies armour is the most important commission we have at the moment, as it's the one that should make the most military difference. Magical equipment is a force multiplier, and the King of the Skies probably has vastly more baseline force than a dwarf king that's not an Ancestor God (or their child).

Look what it did to the elder dragon. We're going to want that kind of combatant on our side in future battles, not dying because his armour wasn't good enough to protect it from things like the Exalted Greater Daemons that will be coming our way. We should do our very best to procure some more adamant, if it's at all possible.
 
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Anyone else interested in what a potential combo of Master Rune of Adamant, Rune of Gromril, Rune of Steel would do?
We have neither of those lesser runes, but theoretically it might be fun?


In terms of protective improvement, its less than the Master Rune of Gromril. If you hadn't lucked in on finding a Gromril mine and refining it into Pure Gromril the Master Rune of Steel would've likely been your bread and butter protective Rune considering Lodesteel is an easier item to order. Combo wise I will say the Master Rune of Steel does combo into some things the Master Rune of Gromril wouldn't.

TLDR:
On its own, its a cheaper version of the Master Rune of Gromril
In a combo, ????
Huh, interesting. Doesn't really match with its description gonna be honest which reads more like "This is what you want if you want ++Magic Resist on an armor".
 
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Huh, interesting. Doesn't really match with its description gonna be honest which reads more like "This is what you want if you want ++Magic Resist on an armor".

The canon Master Rune of Steel means that extra strength behind a blows stops mattering after a certain point. It's nothing to do with magic resistance, it's about not being able to break through the armour with single mighty blows.
 
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