Remove ads

RHUNRIKKI STROLLAR (Warhammer Fantasy Golden Age Dwarf Runelord Quest)

Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
Reader mode
A friendly reminder to new questers to read the Informational threadmarks and FAQ specifically before asking a question. Links below:

Frequently Asked Questions
Here is the Detailed Rune List
Discord.

On Thread Etiquette:
I'm not going to weigh in on the logic of either side's arguments, but I will ask that everyone read over what they write and really consider if the words they used are polite and won't be inflammatory intentionally or not. You cant account for people's tolerances perfectly but at least try to say your piece without saying things that can be easily construed as overly dismissive of the other side of the argument, thank you.

Please endeavour to be cordial. :^)
 
Last edited:
On the topic of using the Heart for a Gronti or a Banner: I get it. A Gronti would have been the ideal counter to an enemy hero unit like the dragon our forces just faced this turn. But my concern comes from the more general problem where our force had massive 25% casualties. A super-gronti would have prevented many of those deaths. But it doesn't adress the more general problem that under their armor our dwarves are still vulnerable and killable in many of the conflicts they will face. A super-healing banner is a unique artifact that can only be created using the Heart, and while it's not ideal against enemy hero units, it's a general panacea against deaths in any of the battles we will face. (And is useful outside battle, too.) A super-gronti is a fine thing to make, and I'm not against doing so. But it's not the best use for the Heart.

I get that people want to make The Best Gronti, and that using the Heart seems like the ideal way of doing so. But a Gronti is already super durable, and can be repaired in a way dwarven bodies and lives can't. And while it's noble to want to make a Gronti that lasts for thousands of years, we don't need to Heart to do that either. We've already made a legendary item that can and probably will last for thousands of years: Trollslayer. Trollslayer doesn't have any special ingredients besides the sheer determination and action overflow we poured into it. If we put that same effort into our Gronti, I have no doubt it'll also be a Legendary item, on top of our new access to T4 ingredients.

Would The Greedy One's Heart make our Gronti better? Unquestionably. Is that the best use of it? The Heart's greatest quality is its healing properties. I don't want us to be Greedy ourselves and use the heart to make one single item even more durable. I think it's best to be generous and construct something that can spread its Gift of healing to as many dwarves in need as possible.
 
Last edited:
One thing to note as well is how much standing having the armour done for Gloin and Otrek would give them and in turn us. Adamant and Pure Gromril armour, rune enchanted. All in time for the wedding, where they'll be presented with their cloaks to further reinforce the image of the Dragon Hold.

...would it be morbid to make some of the necklace for the princess out of the T4 dragon bone? Maybe some of the chain or maybe the casing for the hearthstone?
 
UlseDovThur said:
I find the arguemwnt that a smaller Gronti takes less actions to equip still completely assinine.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I generally agree with the thrust of your point, its actually very insightful to note that the Gronti's equipment will probably get more than 2 actions into it by default. If we want to make a Bloodthirster sized Gronti however, and want to use Adamant in its equipment, then the Gronti's size actually does become a problem in terms of time. Not everyone is going to be patient enough to set aside the amounts of Adamant required to make a piece of equipment for a Bloodthirster sized Gronti on like a consistent level.

An Ogre sized gronti already would require 2 bars of adamant and 6 for a full suit of armor. If it has four pieces of equipment (weapon, shield, talisman, banner) that is 12 pieces of Adamant, for an Ogre sized Gronti. For a Bloodthirster sized one I think the bar requirements are either 4 bars or 6? Soul's talked about it before. Several centuries to fully kit out the gronti with it being a consistent thing in the background of turn planning is a pretty big deal, since that's easily a month IRL.
 
*sigh*
This whole thing where we've got strong contending votes for plans where either the Dowry set or the Armors or both are being finished with less than 1 overflow per component item is exactly what I'd been trying and failing to avoid last turn.

I hope it turns out well, but I'm not holding my breath.
 
BungieONI said:
-[] C-c-combo Tester!: The format is as follows: Valiant Colossus, Gronti: [Master Rune of Awakening, Rune of Grimnir, Rune of Fortitude] [Cost: 1 action] 1 Action
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I really want to see what the Rune of Grimnir does with "Might" and "Fury" too. Having the Awakening rune in there neatly has you end up with a sentence/theme of "Awakening the Might/Fury of Grimnir!"

I personally favor Might or Fury; because, well... it makes more thematic or grammatical sense? You know, stuff like "You have awakened the fury of an ancestor god..." As words, both Might and Fury lend themselves to becoming statements, more easily than does Fortitude. Wish I could use both Might and Fury alongside Grimnir, but that's not possible for a Golem -- I guess I'll have to save it for a weapon, that'd be a cool runic combo probably.

... Althooough... Although...
Red Bovine said:
1) Would adding a Talisman using the Master Rune of Waking on top of a Gronti improve it in anyway? Noticed that it said that it is in fact an improved version and you did mention some runes can combo with others.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
soulcake said:
1. On its own? No. With other Runes along with it ?????????
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Didn't soulcake just recently make a post that "Using the Master Rune of Awakening on a Pendant, and other Runes, to boost the Golem would be ???"

Because... because I now have a great idea for something to try.

Talisman: Master Rune of Awakening + Rune of Might + Rune of Fury.

The Golem bears the Rune of Grimnir, doesn't it? Well. If the Talisman has a Rune that's about "awakening" something... as if bringing forth something from its wearer...

Well, Grimnir is Mighty and Furious (and Valiant; fun fact the 8th edition's Stalwart Rune is a combo of 6th edition's Stalwart and Valiant runes)... so if the Talisman were awakening something, maybe the Golem's rune of Grimnir would resonate well?

Gah. I want to throw together the rune of Grimnir with the Might and Fury runes, but a Talisman is the only other place that can hold a Master Rune of Awakening/Animation, so... gah. And you could make it Awakening + Grimnir + a third, but... damn. Hmm...

Actually, I suppose that could be a Multi-Piece Set Item, couldn't it? Using the Rune of Grimnir in Talismans, Golems, or Weapons.

Gah, how to arrange it, how to arrange it. I can almost see the end result. I can give them names. But I'm not sure how exactly to achieve it.

"The Might of Grimnir" "The Fury of Grimnir" "The Fortitude of Grimnir"

Might, Fury, and Grimnir can go on weapons or talisman (or even the Golem itself), but I don't know how best to do it...

Golem: Awakening+Grimnir+Fortitude, aka "The Fortitude of Grimnir."
Talisman: Awakening+Grimnir+Might/Fury/something(?), "The Might/Fury(?) of Grimnir"
Axe: Grimnir+Fury+question mark? could be a second Fury rune, could be a Fire rune, "The Fury of Grimnir"
Axe: Grimnir+Might+question mark, probably a second Might rune?, "The Might of Grimnir"
Axe: Grimnir+Fury+Might, "The Furious Might of Grimnir!"

I can almost but not quite picture the end result. There's a lot of interchangeability. And it probably shouldn't use the Rune of Grimnir more than twice, maybe three times. But there are also lots of other cool, appropriate, or useful, weapon combos that we might want to play around -- like twin Fire and Frost axes, or a Daemonslaying weapon, or a weapon bearing the Master Rune of Smiting or the Master Rune of Breaking... And the Talisman, uniquely being the only other location that can hold the Master Rune of Awakening, thus means you're incentivized to place runes that would synergize with Awakening...

Can anybody help, comment, critique, suggest?
 
I wonder how much extra oomph we could expect out of an ogre sized gronti, made primarily with pure gromril but with a wyrm bone skeleton and a few bars of adamant incorporated; either in narratively important spots, or as skin.

[X] Wedding Works​



​
 
Derpmind said:
On the topic of using the Heart for a Gronti or a Banner: I get it. A Gronti would have been the ideal counter to an enemy hero unit like the dragon our forces just faced this turn. But my concern comes from the more general problem where our force just lost 25% of all its dwarves. A super-gronti would have prevented many of those deaths. But it doesn't adress the more general problem that under their armor our dwarves are still vulnerable and killable in many of the conflicts they will face. A super-healing banner is a unique artifact that can only be created using the Heart, and while it's not ideal against enemy hero units, it's a general panacea against deaths in any of the battles we will face. (And is useful outside battle, too.) A super-gronti is a fine thing to make, and I'm not against doing so. But it's not the best use for the Heart.

I get that people want to make The Best Gronti, and that using the Heart seems like the ideal way of doing so. But a Gronti is already super durable, and can be repaired in a way dwarven bodies and lives can't. And while it's noble to want to make a Gronti that lasts for thousands of years, we don't need to Heart to do that either. We've already made a legendary item that can and probably will last for thousands of years: Trollslayer. Trollslayer doesn't have any special ingredients besides the sheer determination and action overflow we poured into it. If we put that same effort into our Gronti, I have no doubt it'll also be a Legendary item, on top of our new access to T4 ingredients.

Would The Greedy One's Heart make our Gronti better? Unquestionably. Is that the best use of it? The Heart's greatest quality is its healing properties. I don't want us to be Greedy ourselves and use the heart to make one single item even more durable. I think it's best to be generous and construct something that can spread its Gift of healing to as many dwarves in need as possible.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
And just like we don't need to use the Heart to make a great Gronti we don't need to use the Heart to make a great Healing Banner. You want a Healing Banner? That's fine, we can make one. And no, the Hearts greatest property isn't it's regenerative properties but rather it's Endless energy. It's regen is simply a byproduct of its Endless energy.
 
Captain Spatula said:
[X] Wedding Works
-[X] [Difficult] A Royal Panoply Pt. 2: With the runes squared away all that needs to be done is have the armour sets made. You've decided to use the Elder Wyrms hide instead of the one you've ordered. Just made good sense is all. [Cost: 2 actions] Productivity Like No Other will proc. If a specific material, 3 "Bars" per Suit
--[X] 3 actions
---[X] Adamant for Otrek
---[X] Pure Gromril with T4 Dragonhide and T4 Dragonbone for Gloin
-[X] [Difficult] Dowry Pt. 2: Two cloaks and an amulet to be ready for the wedding of Prince Durabarr Stonehammer and Princess Orra Ironarm. All that needs to be done now is make the things. With the arrival of so much high-quality dragonhide, you've decided to use it instead of the hide you had ordered. A multi-piece project. [Cost: (3 -1) =2 actions] Productivity Like No Other will proc. Due in 1 Turn.
--[X] 2 actions
---[X] Using Elder Frostwyrm Blood for the Hailmantle Cloak

So with confirmation from soulcake that using our actions like this would have the wedding commissions and the armour commissions complete in time for the wedding. Using the elder frostwyrm blood for Gloins cloak in the hopes it kind of supercharges the rune of frost.

Another fact is with the OOC knowledge that shit really will hit the fan this turn I want Otrek and Gloin armoured up for it. If we had another turn I'd genuinely want the King in the Sky armoured up as well, because we know OOC he will be targeted soon.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Whoah, whoah, whoah! Using one single Adamant bar is ineffecient as hell as noted by the QM themselves. Seriously, people need to stop thinking that just adding Adamant to everything is a big improvement when it isn't. The QM outright stated that you would need multiple bars just to have the minimal benefits then if you had just made the whole thing out of Adamant itself. Hence I think it's a colossal mistake to use Adamant on anything just for a very minor improvement instead of just stockpiling enough to make a full blown Adamant artifact.

Edit: Wait, nevermind thought that you were using an Adamant bar on one of the cloaks. Got mixed up since the plans with similar votes are structures a bit differently.
 
Last edited:
Enthusiast#117 said:
*sigh*
This whole thing where we've got strong contending votes for plans where either the Dowry set or the Armors or both are being finished with less than 1 overflow per component item is exactly what I'd been trying and failing to avoid last turn.

I hope it turns out well, but I'm not holding my breath.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
We've got a mix between T3 and T4 materials for all of the components for the dowry, cloaks and armour. The lowest rarity Snorri should be able to make from that is still T3. More likely is things closer to T4, if not hitting T4 itself.

It'd be a lot better if the King and his Heir are better protected in time for what is probably the big push from chaos in this invasion. If we had more time we could of put more AP into it, sure. But we've been rushed and the AP use has been strict because we want to ensure most of the hero units survive.
Red Bovine said:
Whoah whoah whoah! Using one single Adamant bar is ineffecient as hell as noted by the QM themselves. Seriously, people need to stop thinking that just adding Adamant to everything is a big improvement when it isn't. The QM outright stated that you would need multiple bars just to have the minimal benefits then if you had just made the whole thing out of Adamant itself. Hence I think it's a colossal mistake to use Adamant on anything just for a very minor improvement instead of just stockpiling enough to make a full blown Adamant artifact.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
The plan is to make the entire armour set out of adamant? There were 2 hours before the moratorium lifted that any complaints could of been made and we could of tried to work something out but as is the plan has what I want, armouring the king and heir and finishing the commissions for the wedding.
 
Last edited:
Derpmind said:
On the topic of using the Heart for a Gronti or a Banner: I get it. A Gronti would have been the ideal counter to an enemy hero unit like the dragon our forces just faced this turn. But my concern comes from the more general problem where our force just lost 25% of all its dwarves. A super-gronti would have prevented many of those deaths. But it doesn't adress the more general problem that under their armor our dwarves are still vulnerable and killable in many of the conflicts they will face. A super-healing banner is a unique artifact that can only be created using the Heart, and while it's not ideal against enemy hero units, it's a general panacea against deaths in any of the battles we will face. (And is useful outside battle, too.) A super-gronti is a fine thing to make, and I'm not against doing so. But it's not the best use for the Heart.

I get that people want to make The Best Gronti, and that using the Heart seems like the ideal way of doing so. But a Gronti is already super durable, and can be repaired in a way dwarven bodies and lives can't. And while it's noble to want to make a Gronti that lasts for thousands of years, we don't need to Heart to do that either. We've already made a legendary item that can and probably will last for thousands of years: Trollslayer. Trollslayer doesn't have any special ingredients besides the sheer determination and action overflow we poured into it. If we put that same effort into our Gronti, I have no doubt it'll also be a Legendary item, on top of our new access to T4 ingredients.

Would The Greedy One's Heart make our Gronti better? Unquestionably. Is that the best use of it? The Heart's greatest quality is its healing properties. I don't want us to be Greedy ourselves and use the heart to make one single item even more durable. I think it's best to be generous and construct something that can spread its Gift of healing to as many dwarves in need as possible.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I don't see it as Greedy, because as you note it would help save people's lives. That is effectively the point of both the Gronti and the Banner they just do it differently. And by arguing that the Gronti is Greedy then that is basically saying that you are against the Gronti, because your post is about not being Greedy. Like, I'm not going to be mad about that but that is effectively what reading your post conveys.

The thing with Gronti is that in the lore they are something that is actually particularly vulnerable to losing power from Runes. All runecraft suffers from this, but Gronti are noted specifically to suffer people not being able to turn them back on for reasons spanning from forgetting how to not having the requisite energy. The Heart negates this, since it can just stay on till doomsday. A banner would work similarly, but, as I outlined.

Harried said:
I wonder how much extra oomph we could expect out of an ogre sized gronti, made primarily with pure gromril but with a wyrm bone skeleton and a few bars of adamant incorporated; either in narratively important spots, or as skin.

[X] Wedding Works
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
The Wyrm bone skeleton idea seems pretty odd to me because in that case the "skin and tissue" that the Pure Gromril is, is stronger than the Bone and so the bone is in my mind a bit of a structural weakness in exchange for some esoteric things. I'd rather just make it with Pure Gromril all the way through and not have a concern that a Bloodthirster or other big gribbly grappling with Ymir would break its bones without damaging its externals that much. Be kinda hard to get in there to fix the bones through all that Gromril, in my mind.
 
Red Bovine said:
Whoah whoah whoah! Using one single Adamant bar is ineffecient as hell as noted by the QM themselves. Seriously, people need to stop thinking that just adding Adamant to everything is a big improvement when it isn't. The QM outright stated that you would need multiple bars just to have the minimal benefits then if you had just made the whole thing out of Adamant itself. Hence I think it's a colossal mistake to use Adamant on anything just for a very minor improvement instead of just stockpiling enough to make a full blown Adamant artifact.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
That's not what that means. He's saying that Otreks Armor is going to be made of Adamant as the material. If it was just 1 Bar it would be specified as only 1 Bar.
 
Red Bovine said:
Whoah whoah whoah! Using one single Adamant bar is ineffecient as hell as noted by the QM themselves. Seriously, people need to stop thinking that just adding Adamant to everything is a big improvement when it isn't. The QM outright stated that you would need multiple bars just to have the minimal benefits then if you had just made the whole thing out of Adamant itself. Hence I think it's a colossal mistake to use Adamant on anything just for a very minor improvement instead of just stockpiling enough to make a full blown Adamant artifact.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I'm pretty sure that specification means the entire suit is made from adamant, since Soulcake's basically said that for dwarf sized armour you either make it all adamant, or none of it.
 
BungieONI said:
I generally agree with the thrust of your point, its actually very insightful to note that the Gronti's equipment will probably get more than 2 actions into it by default. If we want to make a Bloodthirster sized Gronti however, and want to use Adamant in its equipment, then the Gronti's size actually does become a problem in terms of time. Not everyone is going to be patient enough to set aside the amounts of Adamant required to make a piece of equipment for a Bloodthirster sized Gronti on like a consistent level.

An Ogre sized gronti already would require 2 bars of adamant and 6 for a full suit of armor. If it has four pieces of equipment (weapon, shield, talisman, banner) that is 12 pieces of Adamant, for an Ogre sized Gronti. For a Bloodthirster sized one I think the bar requirements are either 4 bars or 6? Soul's talked about it before. Several centuries to fully kit out the gronti with it being a consistent thing in the background of turn planning is a pretty big deal, since that's easily a month IRL.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
That just means we need more research though? It's been implied there's better methods of Adamant generation lurking in the tech tree somewhere. Even just halving the time would be significant.

UlseDovThur said:
Who here is actually intending on only spending 2 actions on any of this things loadout? Genuinely?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I wouldn't put it past people. We're doing the same thing with the Dowry and the Armors right now, after all.
 
UlseDovThur said:
And just like we don't need to use the Heart to make a great Gronti we don't need to use the Heart to make a great Healing Banner. You want a Healing Banner? That's fine, we can make one. And no, the Hearts greatest property isn't it's regenerative properties but rather it's Endless energy. It's regen is simply a byproduct of its Endless energy.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Basically the Greedy ones heart is a warp pump so we should use it for something that needs a "pump" cause it will be amazingly bullshit in that roll.
 
UlseDovThur said:
Personally I'm more interested in the armors than the Banner right now. As it stands the banner would help our general troops more but the armor keeps Otrek and Gloin alive.

My fear is that one or both of them die and then the equipment they're carrying, Trollslayer, the cloaks, are lost to the enemy. As bad as it is to say we can replace our regular troops far more easily than we can artifacts like those.

Not to mention the blow losing our King or his Heir, or, Ancestor gods forbid, both, would have on the Holds morale which is something we desperately need to keep high in times like these.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Definitely a good point of how bad of a blow it would be to lose either the King or Prince or god forbid both during one of the worst invasions in history.
 
Reader mode
You must login or register to reply here.
Remove ads
Back
Top