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I'm not going to weigh in on the logic of either side's arguments, but I will ask that everyone read over what they write and really consider if the words they used are polite and won't be inflammatory intentionally or not. You cant account for people's tolerances perfectly but at least try to say your piece without saying things that can be easily construed as overly dismissive of the other side of the argument, thank you.

Please endeavour to be cordial. :^)
 
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You and the Elder Council listen as Moira tallies the losses.

"A quarter of the Throng wounded or dead, a disproportionate number of the hold's Runesmiths included. I'm no tactician, but given the losses suffered and the fact that young Otrek has been wounded so badly, it likely means the throng will be acting in a weakened state for at least five years. About as long as the King will be recovering, " she finishes, staring down Otrek who chose to attend the meeting despite his injuries.

If he is phased, and you know he is, he hides it well.
At least that's better than vs the Greedy Troll, that was a third lost or wounded.

Plan wise we Need to finish the Dowry. If we don't it autofails and that is no bueno.

[] Plan For the Dragon Hold!
-[] [Difficult] Dowry Pt. 2: [Cost: (3 -1) =2 actions] Productivity Like No Other will proc. Due in 1 Turn. 3 Actions. Use Elder Wyrm Blood on the Hailmantle Cloak.
-[] [Difficult] A Higher Standard Pt. 2: [Cost: 1 action] Productivity Like No Other will proc. 2 actions. Use Elder Wyrm Bone and Elder Wyrm Hide.

So the point of this one is to obviously complete the Dowry because that needs to get done this turn or else it fails. 3 actions into it would mean that this part gets a total of 6 actions into the Dowry, 1 already put in, and five more from this arrangement. That makes it with 3 actions of overflow. The standard will end up with two actions of overflow. The armor can be done next turn, on the flip side this is still giving Otrek and Gloin a very nice set of protections and very nicely increasing the defense of the Throng.

[] Plan For the Dragon Hold and Testing!
-[] [Difficult] Dowry Pt. 2: [Cost: (3 -1) =2 actions] Productivity Like No Other will proc. Due in 1 Turn. 2 Actions. Use Elder Wyrm Blood on the Hailmantle Cloak.
-[] [Difficult] A Higher Standard Pt. 2: [Cost: 1 action] Productivity Like No Other will proc. 2 Actions. Use Elder Wyrm Bone and Elder Wyrm Hide.
-[] C-c-combo Tester!: The format is as follows: Valiant Colossus, Gronti: [Master Rune of Awakening, Rune of Grimnir, Rune of Fortitude] [Cost: 1 action] 1 Action

This plan is if one is worried about overflowing too hard on the Dowry and wants to start making progress on Ymir. This is I think a decent base attempt given how it would support a Gronti's battle abilities and if it combos, might fit nicely into some of the metaphors and ideas we've been coming up with.

[] Plan For the Dragon Hold and Armor!
-[] [Difficult] Dowry Pt. 2: [Cost: (3 -1) =2 actions] Productivity Like No Other will proc. Due in 1 Turn. 2 Actions. Use Elder Wyrm Blood on the Hailmantle Cloak.
[ ] [Difficult] A Royal Panoply Pt. 2: With the runes squared away all that needs to be done is have the armour sets made. You've decided to use the Elder Wyrms hide instead of the one you've ordered. Just made good sense is all. [Cost: 2 actions] Productivity Like No Other will proc. 3 actions. Use 3 bars of Adamant for the King's Armor, Pure Gromril and decorative Dragonbone for the Prince's armor.

So since there is no combo on the Armors, the things that dictate how good the Armors will come out is our effort and the materials. We have better materials than we did a moment ago which is Awesome! I'm thinking do it like this, that way the Royal Panoply has a really good chance of hitting T3 even with no combo and thus being at least equal and possibly better to their current work. The Elder Wyrm's hide will already be incorporated into the Royal Panoply so we don't need to specify that exactly, but I do want to use Dragonbone in Gloin's armor for aesthetic purposes based on what Soul has said about T4 Dragonbone's properties.

E: Got reminded about the frostwyrm blood. And my formatting went nuts arghhh!
 
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[X] Boon from the Sky: Write-in what you want from the King of the Skies. He can do a lot but be reasonable. In exchange, he expects a suit of armour. [Cost: Start Request, [Difficult] Plated Skies Pt. 1:] No Time Limit

This is an action I want to take. However, my in depth knowledge of Warhammer is poor.

Someone please tell me what we would want to hunt in the far north, that we can set the King of the Sky towards.

He asked us for armor people, keeping him waiting when everything's about to go to hell is just not right.
 
Damn. I don't suppose Kraggi's favours could be used for extra Adamant. Certainly not 2-3 bars.

But I also do think that the King and Prince need that new armour ASAP. This fight here proves it.
Yep. Soulcake has confirmed we can get the armor to them by the wedding if we only start it next turn, but it IS possible it will be too late for this decade's campaign. It's a question of more overflow vs more works and faster works.


[X] Boon from the Sky: Write-in what you want from the King of the Skies. He can do a lot but be reasonable. In exchange, he expects a suit of armour. [Cost: Start Request, [Difficult] Plated Skies Pt. 1:] No Time Limit

This is an action I want to take. However, my in depth knowledge of Warhammer is poor.

Someone please tell me what we would want to hunt in the far north, that we can set the King of the Sky towards.

He asked us for armor people, keeping him waiting when everything's about to go to hell is just not right.
Darik, there's a moratorium. And please don't try to guilt-shame us with an overdramatic view of the situation.
 
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Yep. Soulcake has confirmed we can get the armor to them by the wedding if we only start it next turn, but it IS possible it will be too late for this decade's campaign. It's a question of more overflow vs more works and faster works.
You mean this turn right? It's at the end of this turn. Anyway yeah, if we finish the armors now they will be included into the wedding proceedings.
 
@BungieONI

The Dowry is only half of our commitment this turn. We must also complete the Royal Panoply, or else suffer significant problems.

We promised to do the Dowry and the Panoply. We can't really not do them.

To that end, 3 actions on the Panoply and 2 on the Dowry are needed to have everything ready by the Wedding.
 
@Captain Spatula based on the words of soulcake we want bone AND hide, meshed with Pure Gromril.

For either plan, I strongly support putting the Frostwyrms blood into the Rune of Frost of the Hailmantle dowry
Like so or have I completely bungled it?
[] Wedding Works
[ ] [Difficult] A Royal Panoply Pt. 2: With the runes squared away all that needs to be done is have the armour sets made. You've decided to use the Elder Wyrms hide instead of the one you've ordered. Just made good sense is all. [Cost: 2 actions] Productivity Like No Other will proc. If a specific material, 3 "Bars" per Suit
-[] 3 actions
--[] Adamant for Otrek
--[] A mix of Dragonbone and Pure Gromril for Gloin
[ ] [Difficult] Dowry Pt. 2: Two cloaks and an amulet to be ready for the wedding of Prince Durabarr Stonehammer and Princess Orra Ironarm. All that needs to be done now is make the things. With the arrival of so much high-quality dragonhide, you've decided to use it instead of the hide you had ordered. A multi-piece project. [Cost: (3 -1) =2 actions] Productivity Like No Other will proc. Due in 1 Turn.
-[] 2 actions
--[] Using Elder Frostwyrm Blood for the Hailmantle Cloak

I think this works how we wanted it? Or did we want adamant for the heir and dragonbone for the king? Adamant to keep the heir alive and dragonbone as a show of power for the king of the Dragon Hold.
 
You mean this turn right? It's at the end of this turn. Anyway yeah, if we finish the armors now they will be included into the wedding proceedings.
Ugh, I am misreading so many goddamn things. Yes, you're right.

What I really mean, is that it's still a matter of more overflow vs faster and quicker products...if we let the banner go for the turn and hope to get it done next turn, which may be too late.


@BungieONI

The Dowry is only half of our commitment this turn. We must also complete the Royal Panoply, or else suffer significant problems.

We promised to do the Dowry and the Panoply. We can't really not do them.

To that end, 3 actions on the Panoply and 2 on the Dowry are needed to have everything ready by the Wedding.
There is no time limit on the Royal Panoply, it's just that many, including me, would PREFER it done by the wedding/as soon as possible.
 
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[X] Boon from the Sky: Write-in what you want from the King of the Skies. He can do a lot but be reasonable. In exchange, he expects a suit of armour. [Cost: Start Request, [Difficult] Plated Skies Pt. 1:] No Time Limit

This is an action I want to take. However, my in depth knowledge of Warhammer is poor.

Someone please tell me what we would want to hunt in the far north, that we can set the King of the Sky towards.

He asked us for armor people, keeping him waiting when everything's about to go to hell is just not right.
I also want to make a suit of armor next turn and spend a lot on it, but we don't have anything to send him against. That's our whole problem with the request right now.

@BungieONI

The Dowry is only half of our commitment this turn. We must also complete the Royal Panoply, or else suffer significant problems.

We promised to do the Dowry and the Panoply. We can't really not do them.

To that end, 3 actions on the Panoply and 2 on the Dowry are needed to have everything ready by the Wedding.
Technically, the armour doesn't have a time limit. But the events of this turn have shown that we might want to be getting to making that armour now anyway.
 
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@BungieONI

The Dowry is only half of our commitment this turn. We must also complete the Royal Panoply, or else suffer significant problems.

We promised to do the Dowry and the Panoply. We can't really not do them.

To that end, 3 actions on the Panoply and 2 on the Dowry are needed to have everything ready by the Wedding.
It is not. The Armors can be completed at any time. This was specified when Otrek raised the idea of the commission.
 
At least that's better than vs the Greedy Troll, that was a third lost or wounded.

Plan wise we Need to finish the Dowry. If we don't it autofails and that is no bueno.

[] Plan For the Dragon Hold!
-[] [Difficult] Dowry Pt. 2: [Cost: (3 -1) =2 actions] Productivity Like No Other will proc. Due in 1 Turn. 3 Actions. Use Elder Wyrm Blood on Gloin's Cloak.
-[] [Difficult] A Higher Standard Pt. 2: [Cost: 1 action] Productivity Like No Other will proc. 2 actions. Use Elder Wyrm Bone.
Given dragonhide can be used for a banner, and it "Burns" daemons, and we've now got one extra bit of T3 dragonhide since we're using T4 frost for the Prince, might as well use it for the banner?

Edit: Wait @soulcake since we now have half of the T3 dragonhide going unused, only on one cloak, is there enough left for a banner as well?
 
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T3 dragonhide to the King's dowry as well and you've got it.
Hmm @soulcake would including T3 dragonhide into the King's Armor improve it since the T4 stuff is already going into his armor?

Given dragonhide can be used for a banner, and it "Burns" daemons, and we've now got one extra bit of T3 dragonhide since we're using T4 frost for the Prince, might as well use it for the banner?
I actually want to use the T4 dragonhide thank you for reminding me of that! We have enough, or I think we do.
 
Is it even worth it to add decorative dragon bone? I've never quite got a grasp of how reagents effect final quality beyond the most structural one.
 
Hmm @soulcake would including T3 dragonhide into the King's Armor improve it since the T4 stuff is already going into his armor?


I actually want to use the T4 dragonhide thank you for reminding me of that! We have enough, or I think we do.
T3 Dragonhide is for the King's mantle, the Pyrestrike, because you know, burning.

Well, yeah, but are you sure that icy dragon hide is good for something that burns?
 
Add + T4 or Frostwyrm (your choice) Dragonhide to the prince's armor, and T3 dragonhide to the King's dowry as well and you've got it.
Alright, I think I got it now?
[] Wedding Works
[ ] [Difficult] A Royal Panoply Pt. 2: With the runes squared away all that needs to be done is have the armour sets made. You've decided to use the Elder Wyrms hide instead of the one you've ordered. Just made good sense is all. [Cost: 2 actions] Productivity Like No Other will proc. If a specific material, 3 "Bars" per Suit
-[] 3 actions
--[] Adamant and T3 Dragonhide for Otrek
--[] A mix of T4 Dragonbone, T4 Dragonhide and Pure Gromril for Gloin
[ ] [Difficult] Dowry Pt. 2: Two cloaks and an amulet to be ready for the wedding of Prince Durabarr Stonehammer and Princess Orra Ironarm. All that needs to be done now is make the things. With the arrival of so much high-quality dragonhide, you've decided to use it instead of the hide you had ordered. A multi-piece project. [Cost: (3 -1) =2 actions] Productivity Like No Other will proc. Due in 1 Turn.
-[] 2 actions
--[] Using Elder Frostwyrm Blood for the Hailmantle Cloak

Your plan is also really similar to one of mine, except I specify the Dragonbone as decorative, so I'll vote for yours as well.
Honestly this is way more involved than I get in a lot of quests. I usually just follow other plans but I wanted to get in early after getting the clarification that putting the actions as I did makes sure the armour and the wedding commissions are finished for the wedding.
 
T3 Dragonhide is for the King's mantle, the Pyrestrike, because you know, burning.

Well, yeah, but are you sure that icy dragon hide is good for something that burns?
Ah you meant the King's *Cloak* not his *Armor*. I'll add that in.

The T4 Elder Wyrm's Hide is getting used in the King's Armor, which does not burn, and the Prince's. That's just part of the commission now.
 
T3 Dragonhide is for the King's mantle, the Pyrestrike, because you know, burning.

Well, yeah, but are you sure that icy dragon hide is good for something that burns?
Ah you meant the King's *Cloak* not his *Armor*. I'll add that in.

The T4 Elder Wyrm's Hide is getting used in the King's Armor, which does not burn, and the Prince's. That's just part of the commission now.
Yeah, seems I made the same mistake. Time to go edit the plan again I guess.
 
I really want us to use the Greedy One's Heart to make a healing banner. I know we're making an entirely different banner right now, but we just lost a quarter of the throng. Is there a better use for the Heart than to keep our fellow dwarves from dying in and out of battle? We shouldn't ourselves be greedy and keep saving it for some future perfect use. It's the most powerful crafting item we have, and we should use it to defend our people now during this most dangerous incursion of chaos.
if you haven't noticed the only reason we suffered just a quarter casualties for the Throng and not more is due to the Sky King fighting the Dragon for several hours. As mentioned before a major problem with fighting super combatants/epic level monsters is if you don't have anything that can at least hold them off you are going to suffer serious casualties due to it both being hard to kill and being able to kill large groups of people at a time. There is a reason that people think it would be better to make a super combatant level super Gronti that can is designed to stall and fight such opponents so that the rest of the Throng is less likely to die fighting the things themselves.
 
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I'll be honest I'm starting to get confused but I think I got everything you wanted this time @EVA-Saiyajin?

[] Wedding Works
[ ] [Difficult] A Royal Panoply Pt. 2: With the runes squared away all that needs to be done is have the armour sets made. You've decided to use the Elder Wyrms hide instead of the one you've ordered. Just made good sense is all. [Cost: 2 actions] Productivity Like No Other will proc. If a specific material, 3 "Bars" per Suit
-[] 3 actions
--[] Adamant for Otrek
--[] A mix of T4 Dragonbone, T4 Dragonhide and Pure Gromril for Gloin
[ ] [Difficult] Dowry Pt. 2: Two cloaks and an amulet to be ready for the wedding of Prince Durabarr Stonehammer and Princess Orra Ironarm. All that needs to be done now is make the things. With the arrival of so much high-quality dragonhide, you've decided to use it instead of the hide you had ordered. A multi-piece project. [Cost: (3 -1) =2 actions] Productivity Like No Other will proc. Due in 1 Turn.
-[] 2 actions
--[] Using Elder Frostwyrm Blood for the Hailmantle Cloak
--[] T3 Dragonhide for the Pyrestrike Cloak
 
2. It can be applied to a bunch of Master Runes you again dont know, but you also know it can applied as a stronger substitute for Griffon Brain in the Master Rune of Currents. Best guess is that it will make it more frosty in the killing.
...Stormking the Combo shall be, then.

The Winds of the North are steeped in Magic, even the fury of the Storm is tinged with mystical energies. To claim domain over its Sky, neither the mundane chill of hail and snow nor arcane bolts of wild power are free of its Command. In the North all Winds are equal, heeding the Stormking's Call.
 
The banner is a protective ward. It will do in place of Armor, and for the whole throng as well, for the 1 more turn it will take to make the Armors properly.

[ ] Plan Producing Quality Products V2
-[ ] [Difficult] Dowry Pt. 2: Two cloaks and an amulet to be ready for the wedding of Prince Durabarr Stonehammer and Princess Orra Ironarm. All that needs to be done now is make the things. With the arrival of so much high-quality dragonhide, you've decided to use it instead of the hide you had ordered. A multi-piece project. [Cost: (3 -1) =2 actions] Productivity Like No Other will proc. Due in 1 Turn. 3 Actions.
--[ ] Use the T4 Dragonhide
--[ ] Use Elder Wyrm Blood on the Hailmantle Cloak.
-[ ] [Difficult] A Higher Standard Pt. 2: You've gazed upon the face of the Ancestors a lot in the past few years, especially when you were making your alchemical flame spitters, and it's inspired you. A banner to rally behind, something that dwarfs will look to and fight all the harder with it at their back. A banner worthy of the hold of Kraka Drakk to be held aloft with pride by an equally worthy standard-bearer. [Cost: 1 action] Productivity Like No Other will proc. 2 Actions.
--[ ] Use 1 Bar of Dragonbone and some T4 Dragonhide
 
Ah, I thought we were both talking about the banner as well, which burns daemons, and using dragonhide for it.
Oops lol! So actually double checking the Dowry it looks like Snorri's decided that the Elder Wyrm Hide is good for both cloaks, so I'm not going to add in the T3 dragonhide to Otrek's cloak.

The Banner will get the T4 Hide I'm thinking, Gloin's Hailmantle Cloak will also get some of its blood on top of the T4 hide, both armors will get T4 hide as cushioning if we make them now, and Otrek's cloak will get T4 hide. Gloin's armor will get some dragonbone as well.

@soulcake does the T4 Elder Frostwyrm Hide interfere with Otrek's Pyrestrike Cloak at all? What about the Ancestor Aegis Banner?
 
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