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I'm not going to weigh in on the logic of either side's arguments, but I will ask that everyone read over what they write and really consider if the words they used are polite and won't be inflammatory intentionally or not. You cant account for people's tolerances perfectly but at least try to say your piece without saying things that can be easily construed as overly dismissive of the other side of the argument, thank you.

Please endeavour to be cordial. :^)
 
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Ever time we get a chance to raise our Standing with a Kraka, Aerie or faction, i really think we should do it as there as the perks we gain are really good
 
The Plans are becoming increasingly incomprehensible to me.
Aside from Voidstones I have no idea why we are ordering and expediting the things we are ordering and the only reason I have a chance of knowing our free Compressions/Understands are CatDreaming's summation posts.
The problem isn't so much the wealth of options but the variety of resources we can spend on those options, most of which have little to do with each other. (Snorri, Prods, Heir, Retainer, Order...)
I essentially focus on the few things I am invested in and ignore everything else when I vote, which means that ~80% of my vote is for things where I might favour different options.
I can only assume that a lot of questers find themselves in a similar position.

The basic idea behind Planvoting is that you can spend multiple units of a resource on a single option which makes a direct "the top x options win" vote impossible.
There are very few options we can spend multiple ressources on however and even then spending multiple kinds is not a requirement, not necessitating a unified plan (Khazagar, Drakkrearing).
I think the current Planformat is the result of natural growth, we gained an extra action here and another there and there wasn't much point to spliting a single Retainer or Heir action from the general vote.
We now have 4 Heir actions and will have 5 Retainer actions in a few turns, putting them on a similar scale to Snorris own pool.
Since options like [] Social: are already removed from Planvoting I feel like breakting things up further wouldn't be a particularly big change to voting mechanics.

@soulcake would you be willing to try breaking the Plan vote up along the lines of :
[] General:
[] Heir:
[] Retainers:
[] Order:
or something similar?

The general bracket would be the current []Plan: minus the things that are big/independent enough to be moved to their own vote.
Most plans are already structured along those lines, as are the results.
With the change voters would be more capable of voting for the things they actually want to happen.
 
That wouldn't really work, because these are all integrated at this point. Plans are being made wanting to accomplish an overarching vision for a decade that require interlocking parts - retainer and heir actions doing things that Snorri isn't, but still needs to be done in order to complete the tasks.
 
Alrighty, given that I've thrown together my list of Master Runes and Combos which can be compressed on 0 AP, I figure that it's not a bad time to try and put out a potential plan for people's perusal or at least thoughts on.

Project NameAP SpentNotes
Extra-Sensory3 General, 2 Master Of The Odd5 progress out of 15.
Prod For Prod1 General1d3 + 2 Yorri Prods
Monolith Mastery Pt. 1all Yorri ProdsEach prod gives 1d2 progress overall, so on average, this tier of Monolith Mastery will be completed.
Drakk Rearing1 General, 2 KarstahThis won't be locked on Turn 56 to our knowledge, and if neccesary, I wouldn't be opposed to swapping it for Marching.
Chimera Autopsy1 ResearchFinish up the Chimera autopsy. Progress towards Master Of The Odd.
Kraken Autopsy2 Karstah, 1 Master Of The OddThis leaves 1 progress remaining.
Waywarding1 RetainerEven with the elves doing restoration work, this seems like a good idea.
Expedition, Aiding Dorden1 RetainerThis finishes Aiding Dorden.
Expedition, Aiding Ravnsvake1 RetainerSo we begin helping Ravnsvake.
Understand A Master Rune: Master Rune Of SteelInstantComplexity 0, Soul Of The Earth makes it effective complexity -1.
Understand A Master Rune: Master Rune Of ImmolationInstantComplexity 0, Engineering specialty and Mind For Constructs makes it effective complexity -2.

Project NameAP SpentNotes
The Road to Anoqeyån Pt. 23 General, 2 Master Of The Odd1 progress remains.
Prod For Prod1 General1d3 + 2 Yorri Prods
Monolith Mastery Pt. 1all Yorri ProdsEach prod gives 1d2 progress overall, so on average, this tier of Monolith Mastery will be completed.
Drakk Rearing1 GeneralThis won't be locked on Turn 56 to our knowledge, and if neccesary, I wouldn't be opposed to swapping it for Marching.
Chimera Autopsy1 ResearchFinish up the Chimera autopsy. Progress towards Master Of The Odd.
Kraken Autopsy2 Karstah, 1 Master Of The OddThis leaves 1 progress remaining.
Expedition, Aiding Dorden1 RetainerThis finishes Aiding Dorden.
Expedition, Aiding Ravnsvake2 RetainerCompleted.
Understand A Master Rune: Master Rune Of SteelInstantComplexity 0, Soul Of The Earth makes it effective complexity -1.
Understand A Master Rune: Master Rune Of ImmolationInstantComplexity 0, Engineering specialty and Mind For Constructs makes it effective complexity -2.
Notes: 2 of Karstah's AP are left unused.

Project NameAP SpentNotes
Extra-Sensory5 General, 3 Master Of The Odd8 progress out of 15.
Chimera Autopsy1 ResearchFinish up the Chimera autopsy. Progress towards Master Of The Odd.
Riddle Me This1 Karstah
Write In: Flamedrinking Prototype Pt. 11 Karstah
Write In: Brynbar Pt. 11 Karstah
Staffing Pt. 11 Karstah
Kraken AutopsyHypothetical fifth Karstah action
Expedition, Aiding Dorden1 RetainerThis finishes Aiding Dorden.
Expedition, Aiding Ravnsvake2 RetainerSo we begin helping Ravnsvake.
Compress A Combo: Creeping ColdInstantComplexity 2, Odd Tag makes it complexity -2.
Understand A Master Rune: Master Rune Of ImmolationInstantComplexity 0, Engineering specialty and Mind For Constructs makes it effective complexity -2.

This plan is kind of hodgepodge, but it does use all of our AP across all four types.
We takes a big bite out of Extra-Sensory, and a fourth AP doesn't give the same returns as the third one does. We use Prod For Prod to ( on average ) finish up Monolith Mastery Pt. 1. We finish up the Chimera Autopsy with our research AP. I... had a hard time finding stuff to use Karstah's AP on. So I split it between Drakk Rearing and setting up the Kraken Autopsy to be finished the turn after. And our Retainers are once more helping the peoples of the Far North, finishing up one Expedition and beginning another.

Thoughts? Anything I missed from the thread discourse and plans previously mentioned? Note that the above table is there to make depicting a plan easier; If a change you're proposing has multiple parts, just quote this post and then remove all the BB-Code making it a quote so that you can modify the table yourself.

Edit 1: Added spoiler box for Alratan's indicated changes.
Edit 2: Added spoiler box for BungieOni's proposed plan.
 
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Thoughts? Anything I missed from the thread discourse and plans previously mentioned? Note that the above table is there to make depicting a plan easier; If a change you're proposing has multiple parts, just quote this post and then remove all the BB-Code making it a quote so that you can modify the table yourself.

It doesn't make sense not to do all of helping Ravsnvake at once. If we do it's spreading it over two turns is less efficient. Better to focus on doing it now and delay Waywarding, if it needs doing at all. Generally we should try to do things in series rather than parallel as it's more efficient.

I've already addressed the arguments for why I think it makes sense to do Anoqeyån before ESP in my previous post.

I don't think we need more than one action on Drakk rearing from next turn.
 
It doesn't make sense not to do all of helping Ravsnvake at once. If we do it's spreading it over two turns is less efficient. Better to focus on doing it now and delay Waywarding, if it needs doing at all. Generally we should try to do things in series rather than parallel as it's more efficient.

I've already addressed the arguments for why I think it makes sense to do Anoqeyån before ESP in my previous post.

I don't think we need more than one action on Drakk rearing from next turn.
I have added a spoiler box with your indicated changes in a table in it to the post.
 
Guys, I might have missed it but, What did Khazagar turn into? is it a Dawi version of Ulthuan's Vortex or something? Or is it doing something else?
 
I have added a spoiler box with your indicated changes in a table in it to the post.

Note we have six AP left on Anoqeyån. I'd modify the plan to put four Snorri AP on that project, move the Drakk rearing to Karstah, and then have one free action for her.

I'd probably have her do something like design the banner for the Hearthguard, as that's a one AP action.
 
Note we have six AP left on Anoqeyån. I'd modify the plan to put four Snorri AP on that project, move the Drakk rearing to Karstah, and then have one free action for her.

I'd probably have her do something like design the banner for the Hearthguard, as that's a one AP action.
Hey look, remember the part of my post you quoted that mentioned 'changes with multiple parts' and how to put them in a table? This is a great example of that. Go ahead and make the table so that you don't have to keep quoting me about new changes and I can just shove the finished table into it's spoiler box.
 
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[] Plan: Grant us eyes! Part One
-[] Snorri
--[] [Difficult] Extra-sensory Pt. 1: 5 Snorri
--[] [Difficult] Compress the Combo Creeping Cold Instant
--[] [Difficult] Understand the Master Rune of Immolation Instant
--[] [Simple] Chimaera Autopsy 1 Research

-[] Retainers & Orders
--[] Expedition, Aiding Ravnsvake 2 Retainer
--[] Expedition, Aiding Dorden 1 Retainer
--[] Order: T4 Ancient Greedy Troll Heart

-[] Karstah
--[] [Simple] Kraken Autopsy: Dissect the Kraken Corpse and Elder Kraken Eye we have. Hypothetical Karstah 5th
--[] Riddle Me This: The riddle from Thungni that leads to his Hammer. 1 Karstah

--[] [Difficult] Write In, Talisman, Flamedrinking Prototype pt 1: You're a runelord who has opted to use heat and flame consistently in your work and with the advent of better smelters the thought smacked you upside the head: Why not find a way to use that heat to enhance or even fuel your runes in some way? After sharing the thought with Karstah the two of you have decided that she will make a pair of Pure Gromril amulets to test the idea - on the first a set of runes provided by you, and on the second a set of runes that she will decide upon. 1 Karstah
---[] Combo: Rune of Furnace + Ancestor Rune of Thungni + Rune of Thungni's Presence
---[] Theme: "Heat is energy. It is fluid and changeable. Through Thungni's ingenuity, change it into the light and energy of Runes."

--[] [Difficult] Write In, Brynbar, Talisman pt 1: A circular clasp whose seam depicts a shimmering and glowing gate to the glittering realm. On each half of the clasp the runes of Siphoning and Thungni glow, surrounded by 'runes' from the early days of runesmithing, inlaid with Dronril in imitation of runelight. There are also streams spiraling up from the gate and into the clasp, of powdered hearthstone painted on and tiny shards of an invisible diamond embedded along them. When separated, the halves reveals the glittering realm, filled with even more 'runes.' Thungni stands there, formed with inset plates of various metals (thus forming color), holding the master rune of His Presence aloft, along with various other runes surrounding him, hovering. The edges of the clasp shine with opal, eight luminous colors formed from luminous gems (one for each wind) spiraling inward towards the gate, bound and twined by the streams of glittering power. The backplate (where the depiction of the glittering realm rests) is part of one of the clasp halves, and as such is adamant, with inset plates of Oathgold forming towers and structures, while elder frost wyrm horns form the stony walls of the cavernous realm. The entirety of the backplate is covered in this coating of powdered hearthstone at various intensities, giving the impression of shining mists. Invisible diamond shards embedded in the metal, like snow in the air, making it all glitter like it's namesake. Our thoughts for the intent and image is that: Power flows from above and below, as Thungni brings forth the gift of the glittering realm's power and binds the winds to his will. 1 Karstah
---[] Choose: Master Rune of Thungni's Presence (Adamant and Ancient Greedy Troll Heart), Thungni (Adamant), Siphoning (Ancient Greedy Troll Heart)

--[] [Difficult] Staffing Pt. 1: [Cost: 1 action] Due whenever. If a Rune you want requires special ingredients that you don't have access to I will alert you. Apply optional reagent materials here.
---[] Accept. Use Azrilzhufgotten's write in for this.
--[] [Difficult] Write In Pt. 1: [Cost: 1 action] Azrilzhufgotten, or The Silver River Marches. The Hearthwardens have been stretched to their limits these past few centuries, taking on multiple new duties spread wide across the north, while bearing only the baseline equipment you give them on taking their oath. It's time to start fixing that. Azrilzhufgotten will be a banner of your finest work, embroidered on Ancient Troll Hide [T4], mounted on an adamant staff, and topped with the skull of the Ornsmotek greedy troll. The tapestry depicts the Hearthwardens in the full glory of their power and age, sweeping down from a mountain pass to relieve a besieged Karak from a force of beastmen led by murderous and evil Trolls reaching up to destroy its walls. Three adamant plates form the shields of the front rank of dwarves, each bearing a rune. Although the details do not match, any Hearthwarden who views it will instantly recognize the allusion to their defense of the free dwarves of Karag Dum, the moment when they stood as Pillars in the Dark. This banner calls to the Hearth Guard's first, deepest purpose: When Dawi are threatened, no matter the hold, no matter the distance, the Hearthwardens will be there, standing in the way. 1 Karstah
--[] Choose: Master Rune of Traversal (Radiant Pegasus' Heart [T4]), Rune of Impact (Stonehorn Leg Muscles [T3]), Rune of Amber (Barazgal [T4]).


I've been working on this plan for a while and I'm going to credit @Xepheria for the idea to just rush ESP for two turns. Just get it done. I'm pretty sure I also mentioned this idea during this turn.

To give you all an idea of my mindset, I've been looking at ESP for a while and at this point I'm looking at it in terms of "What turn we can get it done?" and this plan promises that we could get it done on turn 57.

That's why this is Part One. Part Two is doing 5 Snorri into ESP to wrap it up. ESP is the main thrust of this plan. Should also make the turns go by pretty quickly.



Understanding Runes and Chimaera
Moving on to the rest, Creeping Cold is to continue pushing XP into our Weapon mystery trait and Immolation is the same for our Engineering mystery trait. Plus, Creeping Cold provides us an Odd Weapon Rune for our future experiments, and because of that gives us a future source of Weapon trait XP. Same as Raptorstrike actually.

To expand on that, Creeping Cold and Raptorstrike both help us expand the ways we can gain experience in traits related to the Weapon Category. That is important for any desire to create more complex and powerful Weapon Runes including overarching visions to create deadly True Death weapons or to compress the World That Was into a single Master Rune, so I'd consider it foundational work.

Chimaera is a freebie, largely not important.


Retainer and Order
The Retainer stuff is obvious and just finishing up our Aid work for the Retainers. The order of the Troll Heart though has a specific reason tied to what Karstah is doing; Brynbar is an anti-magic amulet for use in the war that has been discussed throughout the thread and it needs 2 Ancient Greedy Troll Hearts. The Dragon that has also been discussed off and on also needs 2 Ancient Greedy Troll Hearts. And we currently have 3 Ancient Greedy Troll Hearts in storage, so we need to order a fourth - latest it can arrive is Turn 60, which is fine.


Karstah
Now I do gotta talk about Karstah. The "Hypothetical Karstah 5th" action is an oddity I will admit but she has gained a new action roughly every two turns. She became our heir on turn 47, gained her second on turn 49, her third on turn 52, and her fourth on 54. I'm not sure if she will gain a fifth action for turn 56, and tbh it does not matter that much, because I'm only using this to demonstrate the loose pattern and bring the hypothetical to people's awareness so that other planners are not caught off guard.

Moving on! The main thing that I'm focused on having her do is more work on Thungni's Riddle, War Prep, and Design Work. I don't think that Drakk Rearing will exist going into turn 56, because the Dragons have reached the point of being mostly independent.

[ ] Drakk Rearing [Cost: minimum 1 general, heir or retainer action, 12/?? actions] Locked until Turn 55 Results. Gain Dwarf acclimated Dragons. More actions improve speed, breadth and depth of their development. By the reckoning of the Dwarfs, and the magics of the Brana and Menlinwen, the Shard Wyrms shall be physically mature specimens when they reach 120 years Old, however the first 60 years of their life will be the most important, both in terms of amount of care and socialization required.

The action itself notes a 60 year period as the most important part of their lives - after that is thus less important or less impactful, and we've passed that point. Therefore, I think the action will cease to be. Also they are now off to their apprenticeships and we and Karstah both have much less to do with their care at this point. If the option does continue to exist I think further actions are optional. But I think preparing items for the War and our Research is more important, as is the Riddle.

The Riddle is a lead on a big research project we need to find, hopefully before it gets snatched up (I'm not sure that's a thing but some people have raised the concern). If Karstah can't do it and Drakk Rearing still exists, the action here could go to the Drakks. If Karstah can't do it and Drakk Rearing is gone, she can start the Kraken Autopsy - easy change either way.

Karstah's Design Work
The three items are straightforward.

The Flamedrinking talisman is us starting an experimental path to Inventing the Rune of Flamedrinking, which does exist on the sheet, its just Future so we need to do the legwork. So make an item that is about resisting and absorbing heat, then converting it into Runic Energy. We're using two options here to ply the waters and see what drops out. If we get two different combos, great! More for us!

Why should you care about Flamedrinking? Three reasons. It is critical for a piece of magitech Safety Equipment that needs to be built before we attempt forging in a Storm of Magic - I've got a design for a talisman sitting using the Master Rune of Purification, Rune of Flamedrinking, and Rune of Thungni, waiting for the Rune. Second, it is potentially useful in our smelter designs because it can help control the heat output to exactly where it needs to be. Third, its definitely useful in general for our work to do with Heat (which we do a lot of).

The item I have in mind would also be hilariously stupid good for deleting enemy items, making us even more busted in combat.

Just grab the enemy's sword and melt it into slag or whatever.

Magical and mundane flame fired against user is absorbed and turned into Runic energy
That's what it does as a basic rune.

Brynbar is a juiced anti-magic talisman meant to radically improve Snorri's own kit and crush the Magic round completely. Its prep for any Meargh Final Bosses and their Daemon Forged Monstrosities. Its also really pretty. There is some hope that it might tie into our Set in some way due to echoing what happened during the forging of Skarrenbakraz. If folks have more questions about it, direct them to @Mr. Idiot, Brynbar is his brainchild.

Azrilzhuffgotten is for our Hearthguard and is the brain child of @BelligerentGnu. The missions we send them on have been getting more difficult and this will help them deal with those missions and the War - protecting, evacuating, coordinating and getting to places quickly.

Its meant to absurdly boost their movement, finally fix that Below Average for Dwarves mobility that they have and make them completely ignore difficult terrain. Also makes their formation harder to break and greatly boosts the power of their charges in battle. Resisting disruption of their formation will also be useful in natural disasters like floods and avalanches as people will be harder to sweep away.

Finally, it will tie in nicely with the Coordination Brotherhood Banner that will get built possibly using the Master Rune of Fraternity converted to Banner form, and the Mountainsouled Banner. Its one pillar in the trio meant to make them like Hyper-Coordinated and Relentless Terminators.

I'm open to questions about stuff.
 
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Moving on! The main thing that I'm focused on having her do is more work on Thungni's Riddle
All is good except of that. Thugni's riddle should not be just assigned to Karstach. We did it before, and Yori summarized that decision in resulting update. It is NOT something we want to repeat.

If Riddle is being worked on, Snorri should participate at very least. Put some action in, so they are working on it together. We should not just throw damn Thugni's hammer at her!
 
All is good except of that. Thugni's riddle should not be just assigned to Karstach. We did it before, and Yori summarized that decision in resulting update. It is NOT something we want to repeat.

If Riddle is being worked on, Snorri should participate at very least. Put some action in, so they are working on it together. We should not just throw damn Thugni's hammer at her!
He was grumbling at us because we took too long to do anything and then passed it off to her as a impromptu "Uh uh, need something for her to do HERE!" (literally that's how that scene went with her and Snorri).

He specifically grumbled about us 'dismissing the chance'. Which we did, and now are not, because we're continuing work on it.
 
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@BelligerentGnu quick request I want to make about Azrilzhufgotten's aesthetics. The discord had a good point that since a dominant aesthetic piece is the Ornsmotek Troll Skull that we should have Trolls in the image somewhere prominent.

Can I change it to add this bit?

The tapestry depicts the Hearthwardens in the full glory of their power and age, sweeping down from a mountain pass to relieve a besieged Karak from a force of beastmen led by murderous and evil Trolls reaching up to breach its walls. Three adamant plates form the shields of the front rank of dwarves, each bearing a rune.
 
@BelligerentGnu quick request I want to make about Azrilzhufgotten's aesthetics. The discord had a good point that since a dominant aesthetic piece is the Ornsmotek Troll Skull that we should have Trolls in the image somewhere prominent.

Can I change it to add this bit?

The tapestry depicts the Hearthwardens in the full glory of their power and age, sweeping down from a mountain pass to relieve a besieged Karak from a force of beastmen led by murderous and evil Trolls reaching up to breach its walls. Three adamant plates form the shields of the front rank of dwarves, each bearing a rune.

By all means! I'm just happy to see the Hearthwardens get some attention.
 
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[] Plan: Grant us eyes! Part One
-[] Snorri
--[] [Difficult] Extra-sensory Pt. 1: 5 Snorri
--[] [Difficult] Compress the Combo Creeping Cold Instant
--[] [Difficult] Understand the Master Rune of Immolation Instant
--[] [Simple] Chimaera Autopsy 1 Research

-[] Retainers & Orders
--[] Expedition, Aiding Ravnsvake 2 Retainer
--[] Expedition, Aiding Dorden 1 Retainer
--[] Order: T4 Ancient Greedy Troll Heart

-[] Karstah
--[] [Simple] Kraken Autopsy: Dissect the Kraken Corpse and Elder Kraken Eye we have. Hypothetical Karstah 5th
--[] Riddle Me This: The riddle from Thungni that leads to his Hammer. 1 Karstah

--[] [Difficult] Write In, Talisman, Flamedrinking Prototype pt 1: You're a runelord who has opted to use heat and flame consistently in your work and with the advent of better smelters the thought smacked you upside the head: Why not find a way to use that heat to enhance or even fuel your runes in some way? After sharing the thought with Karstah the two of you have decided that she will make a pair of Pure Gromril amulets to test the idea - on the first a set of runes provided by you, and on the second a set of runes that she will decide upon. 1 Karstah
---[] Combo: Rune of Furnace + Ancestor Rune of Thungni + Rune of Thungni's Presence
---[] Theme: "Heat is energy. It is fluid and changeable. Through Thungni's ingenuity, change it into the light and energy of Runes."

--[] [Difficult] Write In, Brynbar, Talisman pt 1: A circular clasp whose seam depicts a shimmering and glowing gate to the glittering realm. On each half of the clasp the runes of Siphoning and Thungni glow, surrounded by 'runes' from the early days of runesmithing, inlaid with Dronril in imitation of runelight. There are also streams spiraling up from the gate and into the clasp, of powdered hearthstone painted on and tiny shards of an invisible diamond embedded along them. When separated, the halves reveals the glittering realm, filled with even more 'runes.' Thungni stands there, formed with inset plates of various metals (thus forming color), holding the master rune of His Presence aloft, along with various other runes surrounding him, hovering. The edges of the clasp shine with opal, eight luminous colors formed from luminous gems (one for each wind) spiraling inward towards the gate, bound and twined by the streams of glittering power. The backplate (where the depiction of the glittering realm rests) is part of one of the clasp halves, and as such is adamant, with inset plates of Oathgold forming towers and structures, while elder frost wyrm horns form the stony walls of the cavernous realm. The entirety of the backplate is covered in this coating of powdered hearthstone at various intensities, giving the impression of shining mists. Invisible diamond shards embedded in the metal, like snow in the air, making it all glitter like it's namesake. Our thoughts for the intent and image is that: Power flows from above and below, as Thungni brings forth the gift of the glittering realm's power and binds the winds to his will. 1 Karstah
---[] Choose: Master Rune of Thungni's Presence (Adamant and Ancient Greedy Troll Heart), Thungni (Adamant), Siphoning (Ancient Greedy Troll Heart)

--[] [Difficult] Staffing Pt. 1: [Cost: 1 action] Due whenever. If a Rune you want requires special ingredients that you don't have access to I will alert you. Apply optional reagent materials here.
---[] Accept. Use Azrilzhufgotten's write in for this.
--[] [Difficult] Write In Pt. 1: [Cost: 1 action] Azrilzhufgotten, or The Silver River Marches. The Hearthwardens have been stretched to their limits these past few centuries, taking on multiple new duties spread wide across the north, while bearing only the baseline equipment you give them on taking their oath. It's time to start fixing that. Azrilzhufgotten will be a banner of your finest work, embroidered on Ancient Troll Hide [T4], mounted on an adamant staff, and topped with the skull of the Ornsmotek greedy troll. The tapestry depicts the Hearthwardens in the full glory of their power and age, sweeping down from a mountain pass to relieve a besieged Karak from a force of beastmen led by murderous and evil Trolls reaching up to destroy its walls. Three adamant plates form the shields of the front rank of dwarves, each bearing a rune. Although the details do not match, any Hearthwarden who views it will instantly recognize the allusion to their defense of the free dwarves of Karag Dum, the moment when they stood as Pillars in the Dark. This banner calls to the Hearth Guard's first, deepest purpose: When Dawi are threatened, no matter the hold, no matter the distance, the Hearthwardens will be there, standing in the way. 1 Karstah
--[] Choose: Master Rune of Traversal (Radiant Pegasus' Heart [T4]), Rune of Impact (Stonehorn Leg Muscles [T3]), Rune of Amber (Barazgal [T4]).


I've been working on this plan for a while and I'm going to credit @Xepheria for the idea to just rush ESP for two turns. Just get it done. I'm pretty sure I also mentioned this idea during this turn.

To give you all an idea of my mindset, I've been looking at ESP for a while and at this point I'm looking at it in terms of "What turn we can get it done?" and this plan promises that we could get it done on turn 57.

That's why this is Part One. Part Two is doing 5 Snorri into ESP to wrap it up. ESP is the main thrust of this plan. Should also make the turns go by pretty quickly.



Understanding Runes and Chimaera
Moving on to the rest, Creeping Cold is to continue pushing XP into our Weapon mystery trait and Immolation is the same for our Engineering mystery trait. Plus, Creeping Cold provides us an Odd Weapon Rune for our future experiments, and because of that gives us a future source of Weapon trait XP. Same as Raptorstrike actually.

To expand on that, Creeping Cold and Raptorstrike both help us expand the ways we can gain experience in traits related to the Weapon Category. That is important for any desire to create more complex and powerful Weapon Runes including overarching visions to create deadly True Death weapons or to compress the World That Was into a single Master Rune, so I'd consider it foundational work.

Chimaera is a freebie, largely not important.


Retainer and Order
The Retainer stuff is obvious and just finishing up our Aid work for the Retainers. The order of the Troll Heart though has a specific reason tied to what Karstah is doing; Brynbar is an anti-magic amulet for use in the war that has been discussed throughout the thread and it needs 2 Ancient Greedy Troll Hearts. The Dragon that has also been discussed off and on also needs 2 Ancient Greedy Troll Hearts. And we currently have 3 Ancient Greedy Troll Hearts in storage, so we need to order a fourth - latest it can arrive is Turn 60, which is fine.


Karstah
Now I do gotta talk about Karstah. The "Hypothetical Karstah 5th" action is an oddity I will admit but she has gained a new action roughly every two turns. She became our heir on turn 47, gained her second on turn 49, her third on turn 52, and her fourth on 54. I'm not sure if she will gain a fifth action for turn 56, and tbh it does not matter that much, because I'm only using this to demonstrate the loose pattern and bring the hypothetical to people's awareness so that other planners are not caught off guard.

Moving on! The main thing that I'm focused on having her do is more work on Thungni's Riddle, War Prep, and Design Work. I don't think that Drakk Rearing will exist going into turn 56, because the Dragons have reached the point of being mostly independent.

[ ] Drakk Rearing [Cost: minimum 1 general, heir or retainer action, 12/?? actions] Locked until Turn 55 Results. Gain Dwarf acclimated Dragons. More actions improve speed, breadth and depth of their development. By the reckoning of the Dwarfs, and the magics of the Brana and Menlinwen, the Shard Wyrms shall be physically mature specimens when they reach 120 years Old, however the first 60 years of their life will be the most important, both in terms of amount of care and socialization required.

The action itself notes a 60 year period as the most important part of their lives - after that is thus less important or less impactful, and we've passed that point. Therefore, I think the action will cease to be. Also they are now off to their apprenticeships and we and Karstah both have much less to do with their care at this point. If the option does continue to exist I think further actions are optional. But I think preparing items for the War and our Research is more important, as is the Riddle.

The Riddle is a lead on a big research project we need to find, hopefully before it gets snatched up (I'm not sure that's a thing but some people have raised the concern). If Karstah can't do it and Drakk Rearing still exists, the action here could go to the Drakks. If Karstah can't do it and Drakk Rearing is gone, she can start the Kraken Autopsy - easy change either way.

Karstah's Design Work
The three items are straightforward.

The Flamedrinking talisman is us starting an experimental path to Inventing the Rune of Flamedrinking, which does exist on the sheet, its just Future so we need to do the legwork. So make an item that is about resisting and absorbing heat, then converting it into Runic Energy. We're using two options here to ply the waters and see what drops out. If we get two different combos, great! More for us!

Why should you care about Flamedrinking? Three reasons. It is critical for a piece of magitech Safety Equipment that needs to be built before we attempt forging in a Storm of Magic - I've got a design for a talisman sitting using the Master Rune of Purification, Rune of Flamedrinking, and Rune of Thungni, waiting for the Rune. Second, it is potentially useful in our smelter designs because it can help control the heat output to exactly where it needs to be. Third, its definitely useful in general for our work to do with Heat (which we do a lot of).

The item I have in mind would also be hilariously stupid good for deleting enemy items, making us even more busted in combat.

Just grab the enemy's sword and melt it into slag or whatever.


That's what it does as a basic rune.

Brynbar is a juiced anti-magic talisman meant to radically improve Snorri's own kit and crush the Magic round completely. Its prep for any Meargh Final Bosses and their Daemon Forged Monstrosities. Its also really pretty. There is some hope that it might tie into our Set in some way due to echoing what happened during the forging of Skarrenbakraz. If folks have more questions about it, direct them to @Mr. Idiot, Brynbar is his brainchild.

Azrilzhuffgotten is for our Hearthguard and is the brain child of @BelligerentGnu. The missions we send them on have been getting more difficult and this will help them deal with those missions and the War - protecting, evacuating, coordinating and getting to places quickly.

Its meant to absurdly boost their movement, finally fix that Below Average for Dwarves mobility that they have and make them completely ignore difficult terrain. Also makes their formation harder to break and greatly boosts the power of their charges in battle. Resisting disruption of their formation will also be useful in natural disasters like floods and avalanches as people will be harder to sweep away.

Finally, it will tie in nicely with the Coordination Brotherhood Banner that will get built possibly using the Master Rune of Fraternity converted to Banner form, and the Mountainsouled Banner. Its one pillar in the trio meant to make them like Hyper-Coordinated and Relentless Terminators.

I'm open to questions about stuff.
Sorry, but now that we are completely out of excuses (Khazagar, Coronation gift, Drakk Rearing...) I am not voting for any plan that doesn't include a marching action per turn until the Fimir are dealt with...

Besides that, the optimal number of Snori actions for Research purposes is still 3 with a prod for prod action, and since we have already committed heavily to Monolith Mastery I would focus on completing the first level ASAP...
 
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Sorry, but now that we are completely out of excuses (Khazagar, Coronation gift, Drakk Rearing...) I am not voting for any plan that doesn't include a marching action per turn until the Fimir are dealt with...

Besides that, the optimal number of Snori actions for Research purposes is still 3 with a prod for prod action, and since we have already committed heavily to Monolith Mastery I would focus on completing the first level ASAP...
You can certainly write up a potential plan that has Snorri spending 3 AP on something with Master Of The Odd, 1 AP on Marching, and 1 AP put somewhere else. 3 AP on either Anoquean or Extra-Sensory is 5 progress out of the 6 or 15 required, 1 AP on Prod For Prod is an average of 6 progress which could finish Monolith Mastery on it's own.
Did you have a combination in mind yourself?
 
Did you have a combination in mind yourself?
TBH I Kind of want to try to finish Body And Soul, or try to get the Albinoese stuff finished but no one seems to want to research that anytime soon

My plan won´t be popular enough so I will wait until someone gets a plan done that uses 3 Snorri APs for research, 1 AP for Prod for Prod, and the last AP for Marching and vote for it...
 
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Bungie, Cursix raised a good point that every turn we don't do the Runiversity golem it becomes less and less a symbol of Khazagar. Do you think that we're full on abandoning the guardian golem idea for the Runiversity
--[] [Difficult] Staffing Pt. 1: [Cost: 1 action] Due whenever. If a Rune you want requires special ingredients that you don't have access to I will alert you. Apply optional reagent materials here.
Hearthguard: Snorri it would mean a lot for us if you'd make us a banner since we're your retainers and all. We even found this kickass skull to make it out of.
Snorri: Sure seems reasonable, Karstah make that for them.

Honestly I could accept Karstah doing the design work as long as Snorri made it, however given your alluded plan ala Xeph is bum rushing ESP I don't think you're really planning on Snorri doing any of the final work there.
--[] [Difficult] Write In, Talisman, Flamedrinking Prototype pt 1: You're a runelord who has opted to use heat and flame consistently in your work and with the advent of better smelters the thought smacked you upside the head: Why not find a way to use that heat to enhance or even fuel your runes in some way? After sharing the thought with Karstah the two of you have decided that she will make a pair of Pure Gromril amulets to test the idea - on the first a set of runes provided by you, and on the second a set of runes that she will decide upon. 1 Karstah
---[] Combo: Rune of Furnace + Ancestor Rune of Thungni + Rune of Thungni's Presence
---[] Theme: "Heat is energy. It is fluid and changeable. Through Thungni's ingenuity, change it into the light and energy of Runes."
Could we rework the combo given the original proposed rune idea.
@soulcake, a Rune or two for you!
[Talisman] Rune of Flamedrinking: A Rune derived from the Rune of the Furnace and Spelleating, not only does it protect its bearer from flaming attacks, but also absorbs fire, both mundane and magical, and uses it to empower the bearer's other runic items. One of the many defensive Runes created by Angkra Twenty-Loops, this Rune was believed to be one of the many methods she used to recharge her vast array of other Runes.
I know that we need to have at least one ancestor rune in every design or people will explode but perhaps we don't need two when the accepted proposal explicitly mentions two runes and you're skipping one of them.

@BelligerentGnu is there a World that Was synergy argument for the talisman?
 
That wouldn't really work, because these are all integrated at this point. Plans are being made wanting to accomplish an overarching vision for a decade that require interlocking parts - retainer and heir actions doing things that Snorri isn't, but still needs to be done in order to complete the tasks.
I don't see the overarching vision or rather why it has to be pursued through a combined vote.
How is the decision on our current research topic connected to the decision of the hearthguard aiding Ravnsvake or doing waywarding?
How is this connected to the decision of Karstah building more smelters or making stuff for the hearthguard?
We pursue multiple goals since planmakers have multiple priorities but there is no real reason to connect those decisions.
If there are enough people that want Karstah to look into flamedrinking it will still win, all that changes is that the argument would have to stand on its own merit.

TBH I Kind of want to try to finish Body And Soul, or try to get the Albinoese stuff finished but no one seems to want to research that anytime soon

My plan won´t be popular enough so I will wait until someone gets a plan done that uses 3 Snorri APs for research, 1 AP for Prod for Prod, and the last AP for Marching and vote for it...
Why not put 3 on ESP for 3 turns?
ESP finishes one turn later but we complete Monolithmastery and have 2 turns of prods to throw at something else, could complete Movement 6b and possibly 6c aswell.
 
Do you think that we're full on abandoning the guardian golem idea for the Runiversity
No.

I also looked for the statements Cursix was referencing since I vaguely remember them myself and could not find them.

Hearthguard: Snorri it would mean a lot for us if you'd make us a banner since we're your retainers and all. We even found this kickass skull to make it out of.
Snorri: Sure seems reasonable, Karstah make that for them.

Honestly I could accept Karstah doing the design work as long as Snorri made it, however given your alluded plan ala Xeph is bum rushing ESP I don't think you're really planning on Snorri doing any of the final work there.
Could we rework the combo given the original proposed rune idea.
I know that we need to have at least one ancestor rune in every design or people will explode but perhaps we don't need two when the accepted proposal explicitly mentions two runes and you're skipping one of them.

@BelligerentGnu is there a World that Was synergy argument for the talisman?
Well, if we go for what I have in mind it's going to be built on turn 57 or 58. And since she is the Heir (with all that entails for our lineage) and they are effectively her retainers too/she's being trained to direct them, and they spend more time protecting her than us, I don't think they're going to be hurt by her making something out of their request.

That said I also don't have a problem with making it on Turn 58 ourselves alongside Brynbar.

I've never seen the actual proposal before and derivation is not a straightforward street in Runecraft. Purification is derived from Spelleating, apparently, and it'd be quite tricky to tell. Thungni's Presence is also in part derived from Spelleating and is better for this than Spelleating since Thungni's Presence actually talks about feeding energy to runes - Spelleating does not and also throws in modification of enemy memories as a confounding element completely irrelevant to what Flamedrinking does.

If these two don't work out we can try the spelleating version.

I'm not sure why you are asking BelligerentGnu about the talisman (presumably Brynbar), you're looking for Mr. Idiot for that.
 
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I think we should do the gontri soon...

To be honest I started this post arguing against it on narrative grounds, it would be retreading ground both in making the Halls of the Everlasing and in raising actual no-kidding dragons, but then I thought what would the hypothetical uninterested moderate think of this whole thing? Like it or not we are in a political argument over the proper way to make runes and trade runes. So if you have someone with no strong feelings on the theology of the matter, they could be swayed to either position on the Rule of Pride (or knowing dwarfs they have their own precise position somewhere in the middle) the one thing that might most easily sway them to the conservative PoV (true conservative I mean not Vrangi's reactionary thought) in my opinion is the danger of enemies of the dwai getting their hands on runesmiths or Thungi-forbid books on runes.

Karak Drak is not going to come under attack by beings willing and able to breach Khazad any time soon, in fact I am willing to argue that it will never come under such an attack while the school itself is fully functional and the paths for reinforcements are open. We managed to hold the Incurcion with less than we have now,

But this is not really about safety, it is about the politics and the paranoia of people far away in warmer climes. Paradoxically people are likely to be more worried about distant threats because they do not have all the info and humans (as well as dwarfs and elves in this case I would asume) have a negativity bias, they are going to fill the blank spaces with more danger than is there.

We need that gontri as a show piece and we need it yesterday preferably, though the turn after nex will have to do. The more we wait the more the safety minded runelords, not Vrangi's lot the actual moderates, will go against us.
 
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