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I'm not going to weigh in on the logic of either side's arguments, but I will ask that everyone read over what they write and really consider if the words they used are polite and won't be inflammatory intentionally or not. You cant account for people's tolerances perfectly but at least try to say your piece without saying things that can be easily construed as overly dismissive of the other side of the argument, thank you.

Please endeavour to be cordial. :^)
 
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True. I missed that bit. If the trade was profit driven instead of the intemded exchange that it is supposed to be, then we need to do some grumbling and thick skull cracking asap.
 
On this note, perhaps we should do something to try to mitigate a schism or make it less hostile? Maybe visit his institution and give genuine gruff complements? (It definitely does deserve them even if we disagree somewhat with the ethos behind it)
The problem is that he'd take that as a serious insult. (Probably even more than if we had Snorri actually insult him.)

Like, the thing is that there appears to be literally nothing we can do to get Vragni to chill. That's the ultimate result of our choices, the consequences of pushing so boldly against everything he believes in. As a result, it would be immensely difficult and almost impossible to relax the feud between our two institutions. Any inroads we try to make openly will just infuriate Vragni further. Any subtle methods of relaxing the tension between our two groups of runesmiths will probably be countered by our counterpart once he notices them.

He hates us, he hates what we stand for, and most difficult of all, he wants as many runesmiths as possible to feel the same way. There isn't really a way around that. We've both made our beds and now the runesmithing culture of the far north will forever be shaped by it.
 
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The problem is that he'd take that as a serious insult. (Probably even more than if we had Snorri actually insult him.)
A professional mediator or therapist is what's required here.
While the grudge is mostly one sided, the reason its gone from "entirely" to "mostly", is that Snorri isn't going to just sit there and get insulted when Vragni is mad. Our personal interaction would probably backfire even aside from how Vragni would take it.

And even if it wouldn't, what would we even do with Vragni to alleviate his worries? I don't think many people in the thread would be willing to make any concessions, and we generally approve of what he's doing, we'd just like him not to be antagonistic.
 
Vragni respects yet dislikes Snorri, because he probably reminds Vragni of all the dwarf stories about otherwise brilliant individuals whose reach eventually exceeded their grap, like that one runelord who kind of screwed up while using the Waystones for power.

Also, there is probably a measure of professional jealousy.

Your Mind is Your Obstacle sounds like a message, if you ask me.
 
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@soulcake. Master Rune of the Eagle Eyed isn't marked as understood on the Runes post.

For everyone, one other thing I note is that understanding that Rune didn't give any progress to a trait, despite us having a trait that helps with researching Engineering runes. Something to consider if we want to grind up that trait.
 
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A little worried about your phrasing of "the right price". If they're literally selling them for profit rather than trading them to people who are worthy we may need to crack down on that. Both for reputational reasons and to make sure Khazagar doesn't trade outside its intended purpose.
No the Snorrists aren't that radical. Just had trouble finding the right words in the moment. Fixed.
 
How long do we have left to make the capstone gronti? I recall there was a limit on how long we were able to wait before following up khazagar's creation with it and it feels like everyone has just forgotten about it.
 
No the Snorrists aren't that radical. Just had trouble finding the right words in the moment. Fixed.
Cool, so basically what the Conservative did, was sell the same runes multiple times to different Snorri-ists knowing that they'd trade it to each other anyway.
So he got paid multiple times for the same thing.
I can see why this is seen as weird and dubious even though everyone involved is pretty happy, it must look pretty sneaky and strange to a society who values secrecy as much as Runesmiths do. But its actually just a win win trade as the Snorri-ists don't really lose anything for trading their runes, while also potentially spreading out the cost among many snorrist who only have to offer lesser secrets than they would have to if the conservative was only going to trade once. And the conservative wins because it effectively over values his secrets.
How long do we have left to make the capstone gronti? I recall there was a limit on how long we were able to wait before following up khazagar's creation with it and it feels like everyone has just forgotten about it.
Oh right, that was a thing! I'd forgotten.
I think its taken a bit of a back seat compared to the actual dragons we have.
 
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Jorri had convinced a few cousins to run a secret route through Vlag to Uzkulak, trading Northern sheep and goats for goods not commonly found in the Peninsula, a route so profitable that not even you know the exact path he found.

It was also something that Rorek also seemed aware of given how he complains about your brother keeping that route hidden from him too.
Hmm I do hope at some point Snorri visit that hidden path to keep it secure with his runes.
It would be one burden off his brother's back considering how much Jorri taking on, not to mention reducing the risks of hostile forces using the tunnel to outflank or infiltrate Vlag or Uzkulak as they keep themselves hidden from the Holds security watching over all known paths and entrances.
Would hurt Jorri and his guild badly if the Frurndar use the Caravaneer controlled paths.
 
Given the point in the timeline we're at, the lowlands beneath the Zorn Uzkul that would later become the Darklands should still be fertile.

Depending on how self-sufficient the eastern dwarves want to be they may seek to establish a presence there to farm. Building small holds into the cliff face at the edge of the Zorn Uzkul plateau would seem to work well for that, allowing the dwarves to live underground while controlling the plains to the south.
 
Ya know what would be fun? Runesmithing school contests, with each school making a set for single warrior. Then they find a warrior of certain age to fight it out who's set is better.

Both judged by results in tournament and in runesmith opinions.

And it would end up with a promising person from thekr region getting full on rune set, each decade.
 
Ya know what would be fun? Runesmithing school contests, with each school making a set for single warrior. Then they find a warrior of certain age to fight it out who's set is better.

Both judged by results in tournament and in runesmith opinions.

And it would end up with a promising person from thekr region getting full on rune set, each decade.
Rune of Breaking and variants strictly disallowed.
 
I wonder if a structural Master Rune of Sparring would be possible, that would allow to warriors to virtually fight without risking real damage to themselves or their gear.
 
I wonder if a structural Master Rune of Sparring would be possible, that would allow to warriors to virtually fight without risking real damage to themselves or their gear.
If their gear is at risk of damaging it was shoddily made. Unless the rune of MBreaking was involved, in which case what you have their isn't a rune of sparring, its a rune of being indestructible.
 
Like, the thing is that there appears to be literally nothing we can do to get Vragni to chill. That's the ultimate result of our choices, the consequences of pushing so boldly against everything he believes in. As a result, it would be immensely difficult and almost impossible to relax the feud between our two institutions. Any inroads we try to make openly will just infuriate Vragni further. Any subtle methods of relaxing the tension between our two groups of runesmiths will probably be countered by our counterpart once he notices them.

He hates us, he hates what we stand for, and most difficult of all, he wants as many runesmiths as possible to feel the same way. There isn't really a way around that. We've both made our beds and now the runesmithing culture of the far north will forever be shaped by it
True, but he's also an elder dwarf and shouldn't want a true schism any more than Snorri does. A public prodding might be a bad plan, but a private discussion could still make some progress.

Settling the whole thing would be ideal, but it's not really the only way to stabilize this situation. Coming to an understanding about the rules of engagement so to speak.

Our conflict doesn't have to be a friendly one, but stuff like making runesmiths of the other political inclination unwelcome in our areas of influence isn't necessary and risks starting something neither Snorri or Vragni can stop. We'd need to tread carefully to avoid making it sound like a personal insult, but they're both mature enough that they should be capable of frank conversation.

Given how old dwarves operate gathering some data and framing it in terms of a mutual problem and responsibility as elders would probably work. There are probably Snorrists being pricks out there too, so a data set pointing out problems on both sides and initiating the conversation on the basis of is being the responsibility of the one "instigating the point of contention" or something gives him some respect without actually acknowledging any fault or suggesting what we did was wrong.

Snorri did start this development after all, and as a runelord ensuring the guild doesn't tear itself apart is one of his responsibilities.

The key thing is to mitigate how clannish it gets, because dwarves go overboard with that. As long as we can keep the two groups feeling like they're arguing with their respected but incorrect fellows instead of a group distinct from their own this should stay stable.

That means both of them need to squash stuff like making other faction unwelcome in their spaces with extreme prejudice. Maybe even actively encourage ongoing discussion or collaboration if they can tolerate it. Making it popular to spend part of your journey deliberately seeking exposure to as much of the extant political spectrum as feasible would help a lot long term.
 
That means both of them need to squash stuff like making other faction unwelcome in their spaces with extreme prejudice.
The problem is that, from what little I've seen of Vragni, he wants that to happen. He wants things to get extremely clannish and just short of a full-on grudge or cold war. He wants to stop people from going to our school, and has been applying (or at least allowing) heavy social pressure to do so at least in his home hold.

There isn't a way for any bridges to be built in any form. His starting position leaves no room for that.

He might be an elder dwarf, but he's an elder dwarf priest of Thungni who literally believes Snorri has overturned everything about their shared religion to the point of heresy. How do you go from there? The only time Snorri has ever approached cooperation with Vragni is when they were facing down enemies of dwarvenkind. Outside of that....absolutely nothing.
 
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The problem is that, from what little I've seen of Vragni, he wants that to happen. He wants things to get extremely clannish and just short of a full-on grudge or cold war. He wants to stop people from going to our school, and has been applying (or at least allowing) heavy social pressure to do so at least in his home hold.

There isn't a way for any bridges to be built in any form. His starting position leaves no room for that.

He might be an elder dwarf, but he's an elder dwarf priest of Thungni who literally believes Snorri has overturned everything about their shared religion to the point of heresy. How do you go from there? The only time Snorri has ever approached cooperation with Vragni is when they were facing down enemies to dwarvenkind. Outside of that....absolutely nothing.
That sounds like a gigantic headache for all of us and has a possibility of it dividing the dwarven realm like it happened in times before the ancestors.
 
-- Master Rune of Fraternity, Complexity: 1, Necessary Ingredients: [T2] Grimnirzan: User and nearby allies have greatly increased martial skill and improved coordination, they are all innately aware of their comrade's abilities and status for the duration of the battle while in range.
Neat! Dawi Battle Meditation
 
The problem is that, from what little I've seen of Vragni, he wants that to happen. He wants things to get extremely clannish and just short of a full-on grudge or cold war. He wants to stop people from going to our school, and has been applying (or at least allowing) heavy social pressure to do so at least in his home hold.

There isn't a way for any bridges to be built in any form. His starting position leaves no room for that.

He might be an elder dwarf, but he's an elder dwarf priest of Thungni who literally believes Snorri has overturned everything about their shared religion to the point of heresy. How do you go from there? The only time Snorri has ever approached cooperation with Vragni is when they were facing down enemies of dwarvenkind. Outside of that....absolutely nothing.

You seem certain of that, but I think you're just jumping to the worst case scenario. As @BronzeTongue said, Snorri loses nothing by at least talking to Vragni in a private discussion, so why not attempt to do so? Writing it off without trying it speaks of a lack of due diligence in my mind. If nothing comes of it, so be it! But it's a failure on Snorri's end to not see this through properly and in the best way possible.
 
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The problem with talking to Vragni is he knows Snorri is not as bad as he fears. But he can't trust that everyone that takes up leadership after we are gone (presumed to be a certain eventuality) will share that sentiment. So he will be impossible to convince to change his mind, because he is preparing for what he considers a certain eventuality.
 
The problem with talking to Vragni is he knows Snorri is not as bad as he fears. But he can't trust that everyone that takes up leadership after we are gone (presumed to be a certain eventuality) will share that sentiment. So he will be impossible to convince to change his mind, because he is preparing for what he considers a certain eventuality.
Ironic that Snorri is basically immortal thanks to QM saying that he won't die from old age and Vragni will only continue to live to spite Snorri.
 
Ironic that Snorri is basically immortal thanks to QM saying that he won't die from old age and Vragni will only continue to live to spite Snorri.

thousands of years later…

"There are three things that the dwarfs consider eternal, at least among Dawi-kind. The Karaz Ankor, the Ancestor Gods themselves, and the Snorri-Vragni rivalry."

Erwin Fischer, in "Common sayings among the Dawi"
 
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