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I'm not going to weigh in on the logic of either side's arguments, but I will ask that everyone read over what they write and really consider if the words they used are polite and won't be inflammatory intentionally or not. You cant account for people's tolerances perfectly but at least try to say your piece without saying things that can be easily construed as overly dismissive of the other side of the argument, thank you.

Please endeavour to be cordial. :^)
 
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I don't think them not being able to figure out boats er... holds water. Between extraordinary runecraft and extraordinary magic someone would have come up with 'make hollow thing that floats on water and use magic to propel'. That said them becoming isolationists due to the incurison and thinking everyone else was dead does seem more reasonable. After all that is the canon reason why the Karaz Ankor did not reunite with the Norse dwarfs for 6000 years

The thing is; the explanations are complementary. Initially they didn't have ships. They may not even had the concept of what a ship was. That explains why they didn't immediately go out exploring while the magic levels were still low immediately after the warp gates fell. They were probably still in shock from the Old Ones' vanishing and the Geomantic Web being messed up. They probably relied on that for power, communications, and global transport. Their first priority would have been stabilising that as much as they could.

Then, by the point when they'd had time to stabilise their basic infrastructure, work out how to use the Winds to cast magic from rather than the controlled trickles of energy supplied by the Geomantic Web, and start developing ships, the magic level would have started getting high. Given how far north they are, this means they'd be dealing with spontaneous mutation of animals and humans into monsters and beastmen, trees and streams developing spirits and becoming dryads and naiads and the like. This would be another crisis. As the pupils of the Old Ones, they very likely didn't have a military. That was what the Lizardmen were for. They may then have had to spend their efforts weaponising what they had been taught and developing the required social and cultural institutions.

This would all itself take time and resources that can't be spent on speculative global exploration. At some point along the way the Chaos Gods probably told the Fimir to attack them, most likely when it became clear that the Albionese were getting back on their feet and might be able to get in contact with Ulthuan. The Chaos Gods then focused on attacking Ulthuan and the Lizardmen, but the fimir probably kept Albion contained.

Swearing secrecy and then not telling is not lyng.
So at the end of the day the quote could simply mean that the ancestors were taugth runes at least partialy by the old ones.
And later they had gone away.
I clearly see a way on how this lore could be internaly consistant with what we know already, it simply isn't as nice as you think it is.
There are no prof of runesmiths still being on albion, I will be greatly surprised if the ancestor hadn't at least meet the old ones or even teached by them.

As the quote says, the pupils who went there rarely lefty

If you're discussing something that is non canon to this quest, it would probably be better to use a warhammer general thread.

However there is specific lore that contradicts that dwarves other than Thungni learnt from the Old Ones:
Only descendants of Thungni and also Grungni can learn runecraft. Therefore it cannot predate Thungni, at least within dwarven practice, because there were no descendants of his to learn it.
E: Thungni may still have learnt from the old ones or been on Albion but you already said its unlikely descendants have also done so:

There's no reason to believe that it's non-canon to the quest. It's currently Schrödinger's Quest Canon.

In the Karaz Ankor only descendants of Thungni can learn runecraft. In quest all the Ancestors seem to be able to. We've seeen Grimnir create a rune, and even in canon Gazul invented the Ancestor Runes.

And the fact that only Thungni's descendants in the Karaz Ankor can craft runes doesn't mean that any dwarven descendants of the Old Ones' pupils on Albion can't. It just means that those pupils also had or were given whatever special quality Thungni had that allowed him to pass on the gift. Seeing as the Old Ones could teach them in the first place strongly suggests they did

There is a very simple non-diegetic reason why I do not think the Ancestors lied by omission, it would entirely break the cult of Thungi and perhaps even the Karaz Ankor as a whole in a way that would entirely derail the quest. Sure one can construct an argument in which 'it is not technically lying' and it matters not one whit, because for thousands of years the dwarfs have been worshiping the Thungi as the discoverer of runes, from which all runelore flows.

I'm not so sure of this, and that's because Thungni is always said to have discovered pre-existing runes in the Glittering Realm, not invented them. That is means that the dwarves knew that runes existed before Thungni, and those runes were presumably crafted by someone else.

Discovering another pre-Thungni source of runes might hit be seen as a partial repeat of his accomplishment, not a refutation of it. It's one of Durin's challenges to get back to the Glittering Realm.

Of course; finding a community of Albionese dwarven runesmiths actively making dwaves with no descent from Thungni or his teachings would be a lot harder to reconcile. It would still be possible though. Take my example of Thungni having found an Old One ship/facility that partially existed in the Aethyr and reverse engineered runes from them.

The only really difficult case is if we meet the hypothetical Albionese dwaves and they consult their records and they say 'Grungni, Grimnir and Valaya, hmm. Yes. The records say they were underclassmen students who did a runner back during the first major Chaos attack on the Geomantic Web transport network and wear never seen again'.

But that's very unlikely.
 
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If they have runes in this quest, why did none of the items we looted have them?

They did actually, we found some rune items with no known bearer or maker's mark. Now we did not find them on the Albionese armors, but we did find rune items right next to them in the posession of the same Fimir. The dwarfs naturally assumed those were taken from some of their kin during the war, but that does not necesarily have to be the case.
 
We also have no evidence that those were Albionese items as they don't match the Albish construction methods and dwarves have been in an on and off war for a century or so, which gives them plenty of time to loot stuff.
Its an interesting idea, but since we don't know what Snorri knows (Would he expect to recognise every makers mark in the North? Every Masters?) we can't say how likely it is as we don't know how unusual it would be to not recognise a bearers mark.
 
We also have no evidence that those were Albionese items as they don't match the Albish construction methods and dwarves have been in an on and off war for a century or so, which gives them plenty of time to loot stuff.
Its an interesting idea, but since we don't know what Snorri knows (Would he expect to recognise every makers mark in the North? Every Masters?) we can't say how likely it is as we don't know how unusual it would be to not recognise a bearers mark.

I don't think we know if the runed item we found uses Albish metallurgical techniques or not, as I don't think it's been examined yet.
 
I don't think we know if the runed item we found uses Albish metallurgical techniques or not, as I don't think it's been examined yet.
I think it would have been mentioned if it matched the other stuff given what a huge flag that would be.
The shield and helmet were explictly Gromril not bronze or wrought iron. The hammer wasn't specified I think however the Hammer was probably of the same maker as the helmet.
The first item was a truly beautiful example of a Greathammer; perfectly balanced, and lighter than its immense size implied, each side of the hammer's head was forged to look like a pale golden auroch with glowing, blue-tinted diamonds for eyes. Its haft was made of strong oak banded supported by strips of steel, upon which three Runes, one being a Master Rune, had been engraved. The weapon had a thin layer of frost around it, the ice thickest around the striking faces as if the breath of the bulls had frozen over. The two regular Runes were known to you, the Runes of Petrification and Paralysis respectively, and while the Master Rune was a mystery as you said, the visible effects and a bit of light testing lead you to believe this was the Master Rune of Everfrost. It was not a Rune you knew, but it was common enough for its effects to be well known among the community.

Simply put it could be considered the reverse of the Master Rune of Conduction, its strikes imbuing a chilling cold that embrittled whatever it struck and, unlike the Master Rune of Conduction, created an aura of similarly slowing cold around the wielder to boot.

Such a beautiful work of art was a treasure, not even accounting for the value of learning to create the Master Rune from the piece itself, it would be a worthy weapon for any Thane or Lord.

Perhaps even a Prince or King.

The second item, comparatively, is far more mundane. The maker was likely the same, it's something you can tell easily enough from the few quirks in its construction it shares with the hammer, and if you were blind and hadn't noticed that, both items shared the same visual aesthetic. The Gromril helmet having been made to look like the head of an auroch bull, with long sweeping horns of silver that were banded and capped with gem-inlaid gold. The Runes of Frost and Ironskin were carved into the diamonds that represented its eyes.

The least of what you found was a fine Gromril shield that bore three Runes of Iron. The increased toughness and minor regeneration that came about from stacking the Rune was a tried and true combination, and more than one Master has tested their apprentice's consistency by having them make items bearing three copies of that Rune. You could not find a maker's mark, though its construction did not match the work of the gear you found in the previous city that may be a deliberate choice as much as it was evidence of another unknown Runesmith of all told. More useful as a reward or something for the Hearth Guard than a topic to research all told.
 
I think it would have been mentioned if it matched the other stuff given what a huge flag that would be.
The shield and helmet were explictly Gromril not bronze or wrought iron. The hammer wasn't specified I think however the Hammer was probably of the same maker as the helmet.

Without closer examination we probably wouldn't know how the gromril had been shaped, so I don't think this is a strong indication either way.

We are told that the hammer is lighter than it should be, which might indicate advanced metallurgy.

Given that the Old Ones almost certainly used gromril their pupils having access to it wouldn't be a surprise at all, and as gromril is the best material to inscribe runes on the Albionese using it rather than iron or bronze alloys if they had access to both wouldn't be a surprise.

As the helmet and shield are pieces of armour, they'd have to be made of gromril whoever made them.
 
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In the Karaz Ankor only descendants of Thungni can learn runecraft. In quest all the Ancestors seem to be able to. We've seeen Grimnir create a rune, and even in canon Gazul invented the Ancestor Runes.

I would not be quick to use that argument. The Ancestors Gods are called Gods for a reason. They don't work like other Dwarfs, just because they can craft Runes say's more about the Ancestors than it does about Dwarfs in general. For example when the first of a new breed of Brana where born The King of the Skys was able to use an entirety new Wind of magic, I would not be surprised if that was what happend with the Ancestors ability to make Runes.
 
I would not be quick to use that argument. The Ancestors Gods are called Gods for a reason. They don't work like other Dwarfs, just because they can craft Runes say's more about the Ancestors than it does about Dwarfs in general. For example when the first of a new breed of Brana where born The King of the Skys was able to use an entirety new Wind of magic, I would not be surprised if that was what happend with the Ancestors ability to make Runes.

The Old Ones were masters of magi-biotech. We know they could engineer incredible levels of magical ability into their creations, so there's no reason not to believe they couldn't do artificially for their pupils what may have spontaneously happened to the Ancestor Gods, as an example.

If the could make Slann or the hereditary magical talent of the elves, they could most likely grant their pupils the ability to runecraft.
 
Without closer examination we probably wouldn't know how the gromril had been shaped, so I don't think this is a strong indication either way.

We are told that the hammer is lighter than it should be, which might indicate advanced metallurgy.

Given that the Old Ones almost certainly used gromril their pupils having access to it wouldn't be a surprise at all, and as gromril is the best material to inscribe runes on the Albionese using it rather than iron or bronze alloys if they had access to both wouldn't be a surprise.

As the helmet and shield are pieces of armour, they'd have to be made of gromril whoever made them.
Gromril isn't an alloy. And its at its best when its pure.
Whatever internal manipulation to shift impurities could be used would be worse than just removing the impurities.
Ergo we can be pretty confident that it wasn't applied.

And I agree its reasonable to assume that the Old Ones could. However the fact that only the disputed items did use it makes me doubt if the old ones actually did. And to contrast we have a set of definitely Albionese armour that did not use Gromril to any extent.
For the reasons above, Gromril seems to be working against the design philosophy we can deduce from the Albionese are using "Highly specific alloys based on the specific use case." therefore I think its reasonable to assume that whatever experiment the Old Ones were attempting would have been harmed by just having a material that was simply better.
Additionally the logic that the Old Ones could have would equally lead us to conclude that Elves could have it by the same reasoning, and yet they do not appear to.
 
Gromril isn't an alloy. And its at its best when its pure.
Whatever internal manipulation to shift impurities could be used would be worse than just removing the impurities.
Ergo we can be pretty confident that it wasn't applied.

And I agree its reasonable to assume that the Old Ones could. However the fact that only the disputed items did use it makes me doubt if the old ones actually did. And to contrast we have a set of definitely Albionese armour that did not use Gromril to any extent.
For the reasons above, Gromril seems to be working against the design philosophy we can deduce from the Albionese are using "Highly specific alloys based on the specific use case." therefore I think its reasonable to assume that whatever experiment the Old Ones were attempting would have been harmed by just having a material that was simply better.
Additionally the logic that the Old Ones could have would equally lead us to conclude that Elves could have it by the same reasoning, and yet they do not appear to.

There is a good reason why even if those weapons were not foreign to the Karan Ankor they would not contain alloys, as you said Gromril does not alloy well and if we accept that as a fact of nature than even if the Albionese tech base contained advanced techniques for doing so they would not use it in this case
 
There is a good reason why even if those weapons were not foreign to the Karan Ankor they would not contain alloys, as you said Gromril does not alloy well and if we accept that as a fact of nature than even if the Albionese tech base contained advanced techniques for doing so they would not use it in this case
Reminder:
The materials are worse than Dwarf steel.
-- The Iron's properties remain a mystery. Though the scale appears to be little more than wrought iron, it is just like the Bronze and is made up of several alloys perfectly fused togethe and constructed for maximum efficiency. It is also almost as durable as Dwarf Steel for seemingly no reason that Karstah can discern.
People keep saying advanced techniques, and yes they are complex and difficult (if we were to attempt it). However they are also worse than what a dwarf would make.
Unless we are actually observing a very efficient mass production technique, its inferior to standard dwarven blacksmithing.
....next burudin challenge? Alloy Gromril?
Why, Pure Gromril is better than regular Gromril.
This is something the Brotherhood has certainly tried as part of how they discovered Adamant and it doesn't appear there were any valuable results.
 
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isn't that why it would be an actual challenge? make that statement false, make an alloy better than pure gromril
We really need clarification on what challenges should be used for.
They aren't going to get something better than Adamant by alloying, and people are already working at T5 Gromril so why would we try and put a bounty on it?
 
We really need clarification on what challenges should be used for.
They aren't going to get something better than Adamant by alloying, and people are already working at T5 Gromril so why would we try and put a bounty on it?
basically stretch out the gromril supply, I mean if you can get an alloy with all the properties of pure gromril but only needing a third of it? then that means you can equip 3x as many dwarves with gromil equivalent armor than you could before.
 
basically stretch out the gromril supply, I mean if you can get an alloy with all the properties of pure gromril but only needing a third of it? then that means you can equip 3x as many dwarves with gromil equivalent armor than you could before.
...
We're kinda ducking between points, I mean we've gone full circle.

I point out something has probably been tried and failed to produce significant results.
You shrug and say isn't that the point of a challenge.
I say that we probably need soulcake to clarify how we're meant to use Challenges, meaning if the intended purpose really was just put impossible task in get research out in however many turns.
You point out the ridiculously exaggerated potential benefits of a potential challenge.

So I suppose now I point out again, dwarves have probably already tried just about combination. So either it all failed or its not a secret brotherhood members are willing to share. That theres no way in hell we get a material with better effects and on 1 part gromril to 2 anything else if I know anything about magic metals in stories, unless maybe we can try Ithilmar... which is even scarcer and harder to get off of the elves. That we don't know to what extent the bottleneck is actually in the labour pool of runesmiths capable of making gromril armour rather than the shortage of gromril itself.
 
...
We're kinda ducking between points, I mean we've gone full circle.

I point out something has probably been tried and failed to produce significant results.
You shrug and say isn't that the point of a challenge.
I say that we probably need soulcake to clarify how we're meant to use Challenges, meaning if the intended purpose really was just put impossible task in get research out in however many turns.
You point out the ridiculously exaggerated potential benefits of a potential challenge.

So I suppose now I point out again, dwarves have probably already tried just about combination. So either it all failed or its not a secret brotherhood members are willing to share. That theres no way in hell we get a material with better effects and on 1 part gromril to 2 anything else if I know anything about magic metals in stories, unless maybe we can try Ithilmar... which is even scarcer and harder to get off of the elves. That we don't know to what extent the bottleneck is actually in the labour pool of runesmiths capable of making gromril armour rather than the shortage of gromril itself.

Dwarfs have probably tried to break the Rule of Three or find the Glittering Realm a lot more times than they have tried to alloy Gromril and yet we are still trying to the first and we know the second can be dome. 'A lot of dwarfs have tried to do something and failed' is kind of the requirement for the challenge as we are putting it to the Buridin, anything less would probably be too boring to attempt.
 
Reminder:
The materials are worse than Dwarf steel.

The iron is worse. The bronze isn't qualified in such a way.

Gromril isn't an alloy. And its at its best when its pure.
Whatever internal manipulation to shift impurities could be used would be worse than just removing the impurities.
Ergo we can be pretty confident that it wasn't applied.

And I agree its reasonable to assume that the Old Ones could. However the fact that only the disputed items did use it makes me doubt if the old ones actually did. And to contrast we have a set of definitely Albionese armour that did not use Gromril to any extent.
For the reasons above, Gromril seems to be working against the design philosophy we can deduce from the Albionese are using "Highly specific alloys based on the specific use case." therefore I think its reasonable to assume that whatever experiment the Old Ones were attempting would have been harmed by just having a material that was simply better.
Additionally the logic that the Old Ones could have would equally lead us to conclude that Elves could have it by the same reasoning, and yet they do not appear to.

There are two elements to Albionese metallurgy. One is single pieces of metal formed from multiple exceptionally good alloys seamlessly combined together.

The other is that the pieces of metal show no evidence of being conventionally forged rather than grown or carved from a block.

Now, the multiple alloys thing is inapplicable to runed gromril armour. Runic armour has to be made of gromril, so it can't be made of an alloy, so Albionese runic armour would not be an alloy, so the fact that it doesn't use those alloys is irrelevant.

However, it could have the second characteristic, as a non-alloy could be shaped in that way.
 
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Now, the multiple alloys thing is inapplicable to runed gromril armour. Runic armour has to be made of gromril, so it can't be made of an alloy, so Albionese runic armour would not be an alloy, so the fact that it doesn't use those alloys is irrelevant.

However, it could have the second characteristic, as a non-alloy could be shaped in that way.
I mean wasn't that disproven with the wuthroth wooden armor rune? It does not need to be made with gromril, it just needs to have gromril in it, the more the better.
 
I mean wasn't that disproven with the wuthroth wooden armor rune? It does not need to be made with gromril, it just needs to have gromril in it, the more the better.

We don't actually know why that wood can take armour runes when, as far as we know, gromril alloys or composites that contain a higher proportion of gromril won't.

There must be something else special about the wood beyond it containing gromril.
 
[Semi Canon???] Varitadrazh, Cloak exists but creator is different, +15 to a Roll
Varitadrazh

Little Sea of the Night

Stealthy was mighty Gazul, Lord of the Dead and Judge of the Underearth. The shadow itself cloaked Him, allowed Him to journey where and as He wished, unseen and unnoticed by all the world. None could surpass Him among the Karaz Ankor in stealth, none could find Him if He did not want to be found, and none could journey so freely as He, so able and skillful he was in the art of the dark and shadow to bring justice and fire to those who would hide from His judgement in that place. After the parting of the Ancestors, some feared this might be forgotten; and so some took steps to ensure it would not be.

The greatest of these works, if only because it has endured so long to this, our, age, was the Varitadrazh. It is a mighty thing split into two portions: a higher cowl made of Thundertusk hide, worked until soft and pliant and smooth as silk and yet still tough enough to stop an arrow never mind what armor lies beneath, then dyed a dark, dark gray, dark as slate and yet still so soft and cleaned it shines. Dangling together with this portion until it reaches the ankles, Wyrm hide, dyed black as the night. Worked too, until though less pliant than the Thundertusk hide, still as flowing and free as the finest wool of Avelorn, shifting as easily as the Dwarf wearing it might. The clasp is an innate part of the ensemble, a finely made amulet carved of troll bone.

Dyed into the Wyrm hide, and where the truest artistry lies, is the Avenging of Dum, when Gazul marched against Hashut. Each image, each story, is lifelike in the extreme, and historically backed--insofar as one can trust a Longbeard to tell history rather than extort his own prowess and mock the youth--by stories offered by those who fought in that place, and saw Gazul and the handpicked throng of Igna Magnusdottir wage war against the deceitful Frundar who, hidden in the Wastes, now provide such weapons, engines, and armor of war for the Great Enemy as they can with all manner of Dwarf skill. Gazul Himself is forever created with the utmost detail, His stony appearance screaming hope for the Dwarfs, with all others rendered of much less detail, varying depending on importance. Interview for the piece, to ensure its accuracy, were, among others, Dwalin Hurgarsson, Lorna Dernasdottir, and of course, turning up like a bad penny once more, Snorri Gift-Giver, in the second most possible detail. It is a rare instance, however, wherein I am inclined to accept this essentially as is, since so many who were so present so more-than-adequately documented him. Thus culminates at the clasp, which is carved with the image of Gazul smashing apart one of the Shards of Hashut with His mighty sword Zharrvengryn.

On the Cloak there are, as you may expect, three Runes. The Master Rune of Concealment, fed the blood of a Mist Drake. The Rune of Berserk, given Grimnirzan. And the Rune of Misdirection, fed finest Obsidian, sold from the Princes of Nagarythe (not, of course, that the Dwarfs will acknowledge this). All together? The bearer becomes unseeable, undetectable, unknowable, a walking shadow. Until, and unless, such a time as they decide otherwise. Then, and only then, do they explode into such violence as is fit to shake the world, and no enemy can dare to touch them, and their own blows flow like finest rivers' water, ever striking exactly what they seek.

It is an extremely undwarfish way to fight and that, perhaps more than anything, is what has made it so effective. One goes to battle expecting expecting the honest clash of steel on steel, the breaking of thews, the beating of wood, and instead receives poison, shadow, and treachery. Many Skaven, Goblins, and yes, even Humans who underestimate the potential for base cunning within the Dwarf heart and the Dwarf mind have learned only too well exactly how capable of treachery a Dwarf truly can be, found dead in their tents with an ax lodged in their skull, a knife in their chest, or a poisoned bolt in their side.

This is also why this relic, for all it comes from the Golden Age, has never merited the glory and respect one might expect. The self-same Dwarf traditionalists who are so keen to argue Runesmithing peaked in the Golden Age are also the sort to turn their nose up as much as possible at a tool for fighting like a Skaven. This is not wholly unfair, for instance much of the Elven impetus for holding a Grudge for the War of the Beard is based upon the brutality the bearer at that time indulged in, destroying at the least many Dragon hatcheries to fulfill his Grudge nevermind who knows what else, but at the same time there is a certain painful taste to it.

The cloak was created by one Fjolla Igunsdottir, a personal piece to mourn the passing of the Ancestors, not that long after they disappeared and the first High King, Snorri Whitebeard, declared his kin were missing. However, as this was, again, in the Golden Age, "not that long" is still a goodly length of time for us mere mortals who must fear the ravages of age.

In a certain bit of irony, the cloak's history has been extraordinarily well documented, with every long-term wielder known and documented by the Cult of Gazul, who were gifted it and offered management of it by Fjolla, and who have maintained it ever since, ensuring it goes to one who is worthy of it. At the moment it is borne by Durak Guttrisson, Ranger King of the fallen Silver Pinnacle, who seeks to reclaim his ancestral hall with shadow and fire, waging war against Neferata with every tool at his disposal, a long running war between the two have rung out through the mountains around Karak Ungor.
-Leandre Agua, Relics of the Gods
 
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We don't actually know why that wood can take armour runes when, as far as we know, gromril alloys or composites that contain a higher proportion of gromril won't.

There must be something else special about the wood beyond it containing gromril.
We know what else is special. Gromril might be all that is needed.
however it also conducts Chamon
That could explain why the wood has such capabilities, its higher than average toughness compared to Wutroth, its colouring, even the Armour Runes if you stretched your suspension of disbelief, but your dabbling in elven magical texts that has sparked another idea. One that you feel the need to see through to the end.

But first, you need to find a Brana, and one in particular comes to mind.

━<><><><==><><><>━​
Blizzardwing stares down at the samples of Azrilwut, one is freshly cut, the other having undergone proper drying, the third has been treated properly, and the last bears the Armour Rune on its surface.

Across from her, circlet with a Rune of direction on your head and transcriber in your hand, you patiently wait for the Stormcaller to finish her examination.

"Hmm, your assumption has proven correct. The wood draws the Gold Wind to it, but there is a progression to these pieces," she explains.

You lean forward.

"The young one," she says pointing to the freshly logged piece, "it's Gold is muddled. The Jade Wind dances within its form, the wind cannot shine through."

You rub your beard even as the transcriber jots down your thoughts, listening as the other transcriber linked to the circlet Blizzardwing wears does the same.

"This dry piece. The Jade has faltered, with each passing day the Gold grows in strength as it draws more and more into itself. The piece beyond it has even moreso, and I believe that if you show me older pieces the trend will continue until only the most miniscule amount of Jade remains. The one that bears the Wind Stiller's work is the same, but it is...different. Hmm, as I see it, the Gold within the other pieces, they are unordered, directionless, and so are weakened. The one marked by your touch has order, but it is...frail? Yes, frail, like a clutchling attempting to stand in the place of its elder, or perhaps an entrance with only half a door. There are...gaps, spaces wherein your mark finds nothing to anchor itself to."

You grunt, mind desperately trying to understand.

The Winds within the Azrilwut, it seemed, skewed towards Gold as the pieces aged, but they were unorderly, a side effect of its growth? You cannot say. The point about Runes somehow ordering the material...it pricks at your mind like an itch you can't scratch. If there was a way to solve this issue, work on the very essence of this material.
I don't think Snorri tested the rune on specifically young wood to see if the conduction was required to hold the rune.
 
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