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RHUNRIKKI STROLLAR (Warhammer Fantasy Golden Age Dwarf Runelord Quest)

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Frequently Asked Questions
Here is the Detailed Rune List
Discord.

On Thread Etiquette:
I'm not going to weigh in on the logic of either side's arguments, but I will ask that everyone read over what they write and really consider if the words they used are polite and won't be inflammatory intentionally or not. You cant account for people's tolerances perfectly but at least try to say your piece without saying things that can be easily construed as overly dismissive of the other side of the argument, thank you.

Please endeavour to be cordial. :^)
 
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MrHobbit said:
What is this supposed to mean?
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Whoops, thought the Citation thing was asking for examples of M/A and academic systems being used together.

Either way, Academies allow for large scale teaching which would absolutely be useful in a post-apocalypse sitation. Even if no Academies themselves exist, the 'tradition' of it would actually allow the institution of rune crafting to recover rather than stagnate in a half-dead state as seen in Canon.
 
@soulcake, I have another couple of ideas for original-ish Runes:
[Weapon] Master Rune of Vengeance: Bright and furious doth glow the Master Rune of Vengeance. Lo, see how its blows are amplified against the target of its bearer's grudge! And lo, see how the wounds it makes lingers and festers, till the dawi's foe lies vanquished!

[Talismanic] Master Rune of Lightfury: Future Master Rune struck by Fjolla Igunsdottir, who gained inspiration from the Master Rune of Spellspite and applied it to her own studies in the secrets of light. This Master Rune not only breaks down enemy magic, but also sears and blinds the caster of the spell, both physically and spiritually. The magical energy is stored, and at the user's command, can be used to fire explosive bolts of searing light.
 
soulcake said:
The trouble here is that Armour Runes can only be inscribed on Gromril. A talismanic Rune may work, but I have no idea how it may function in the field and on what it would be put on.
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Taaaake two!

Rune of Bouyancy: talismanic rune, grants the wearer enhanced bouyancy in water by causing their weight (and the weight of their possessions) to be applied over a larger surface area while they are in water.

With the advent of the first Dawi ships, a major safety hazard quickly became clear: that wearing metal armour onboard was a death sentence should one have the poor fortune to fall overboard. Therefore, rather than stoop to the indignity of wearing cloth or leather armour, this Rune was created to allow Dawi to continue wearing good, sensible steel and gromril while traversing the seas and oceans of the world.
 
Rune of Heaviness: It makes the object the rune is inscribed on weigh much heavier. That's it. :p

(If can be modulated, probably useless as an anti-theft mechanism, or for throwing big rocks that become extremely heavy in the air, etc)

Rune of Floating: Turns off gravity for a few seconds on whoever is hit by the rune, causing them to embarrassingly and dangerously fly around.

Rune of Obscurity: Attention slides off them as they seem unimportant.

(Probably used with runes to make armor soft/flexible/light and silent for added effect for rangers)
 
AzureShogun said:
Whoops, thought the Citation thing was asking for examples of M/A and academic systems being used together.

Either way, Academies allow for large scale teaching which would absolutely be useful in a post-apocalypse sitation. Even if no Academies themselves exist, the 'tradition' of it would actually allow the institution of rune crafting to recover rather than stagnate in a half-dead state as seen in Canon.
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Why would it be useful for Dwarfs?

Everything got damaged by the Time of Woes. From farms and their crops, to Runesmithing, to defences. For anything like this academy to actual do shit it would have to be widely implemented, because otherwise like all of the other one-off Rune knowledge it will get lost.

(keep in mind that the Master Rune of Conduction was almost ubiquitously known in the Golden Age, it got lost all the same)

Dwarfs don't want to half-train someone. People like Snorri and Gottri Hammerspite are exceptions to an absolute incredible degree.

You are still conflating humans and dwarves.
 
Semi-related to just about everything I've argued lately before I drop this; it feels a bit like some voters are just looking at the [southern conservatives disliked that] line and just instantly lock into that option on principle, with little consideration beyond that. Almost certainly projecting some of my frustrations with that observation, but I still think it rings a little true. B-lining for the staple radical option not because of its own merits but solely because it's the radical option. Anyway, with that I'm done for now, I can recognise this is reaching dead end back and forth and that I'm getting too frustrated.
Byzantine said:
[X] [Burudin:] Yes:
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Votes closed, but on the upside for you Yes won.
 
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Master Rune of Stoic Stone: A structural rune most commonly used in foundations that forces earth and stone within a certain radius to stay still, reducing chances of collapse and the effect of earthquakes.

Rune of Stability: A lesser version of the master rune, though still extremely useful for keeping foundations strong.
 
MrHobbit said:
Dwarfs don't want to half-train someone
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There you go again with the straw-academy.

Why does it have to put out half trained dwarves? Why does it have to be dwarves with no training who go in?

You're imagining the worst academy possible and using it as a reason not to have any academy at all.

And again with the 'these are dwarves not humans' rubbish. That doesn't actually mean anything you know? Humans in-quest don't have ANY Academies yet, and out of quest the dwarf apprenticeship system is based on human apprenticeship systems.
This 'these are DORFS not UMGI' statements are a non-argument which serve no other purpose than to try and shut down discussion.

Did you know dwarves didn't have gyro copters or gunpowder in the age of woes either? I suppose you'll say these are also absolutely shameful human things forced upon the poor WH dwarves who would be much better off without it. I'll say it again, this isn't an ultra-orthodox karaz-a-karak dwarf quest where nothing is done which hasn't been done for a millenia already.
 
OK, so, heated discussion. Let's ask some questions!
For those who think a higher academy of rune learning is viable.
How did you envision it?
What is being taught?
Who teaches it?
Who's allowed to attend?
How do you test their worthiness?
Just some things I want to know.
 
Let me make my stance VERY CLEAR: What Snorri does, ie, setting up trials amd vetting worthy, fully trained dwarfs, both Journeymen and Master Runesmiths, to learn our Runes. From the Rune of Forged Limb and the other Runes of Sensations, the Master Rune of Forgeflame and Annealing for the Chainforger, and now the Runes of Repair and Stacking. That is fine by me.

The Runesmith Academy thing, however, grates against me, by measure of preference. Because I prefer my mass production capacity be limited to things wr make, not people.
 
AzureShogun said:
There you go again with the straw-academy.

Why does it have to put out half trained dwarves? Why does it have to be dwarves with no training who go in?

You're imagining the worst academy possible and using it as a reason not to have any academy at all.

And again with the 'these are dwarves not humans' rubbish. That doesn't actually mean anything you know? Humans in-quest don't have ANY Academies yet, and out of quest the dwarf apprenticeship system is based on human apprenticeship systems.
This 'these are DORFS not UMGI' statements are a non-argument which serve no other purpose than to try and shut down discussion.

Did you know dwarves didn't have gyro copters or gunpowder in the age of woes either? I suppose you'll say these are also absolutely shameful human things forced upon the poor WH dwarves who would be much better off without it. I'll say it again, this isn't an ultra-orthodox karaz-a-karak dwarf quest where nothing is done which hasn't been done for a millenia already.
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I am talking about teaching random Runes.

Ninety nine percent of Dwarfs don't want to do that, and that is very likely an underestimate. There is a reason why I mentioned Snorri and Gottri Hammerspite; they are fine with teaching Runes to people who come by.

What most Dwarfs want with teaching is to teach an Apprentice. They don't want to teach dozens of Dwarfs they will probably never interact with again. Snorri seems to like teaching, and the fact that Gottri has had his trials for what seems to be a decently long time suggests that he might like it too.

They want to start with a boulder and turn it into a masterfully carved statue. They want to pass on everything they know. Take Kragg the Grim from canon. The reason why he doesn't teach anyone is that he is incapable of seeing anyone as being worthy of all of his knowledge. But you can be damned sure if he ever found someone worthy, they would get all of the knowledge he had spent millennia acquiring.

Technological developments are different than upending the Apprenticeship system. This is something I explained to Dark as Silver. I should not need to explain it again.
 
Master Rune of Fortification (Banner rune)
Generates small scale fortification when active. Clads existing structures in additional magical reinforcement.
Basically the rune of iron writ large to create something to defend the formation rather than just the dwarves inside it.
Would be more effective the better suited the location was to make such things. Probably takes time to activate into anything as well.


Rune of Solidity (Engineering)
Absorbs the knockback from firing an artillery piece.
 
Tobtorp said:
OK, so, heated discussion. Let's ask some questions!
For those who think a higher academy of rune learning is viable.
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How did you envision it?
-place where multiple rune lords/smiths who wish to teach set up their workshop/challenge (they can either do research in or around the area)
What is being taught?
-whatever they wish, with their name and what they are willing to teach on a plaque out front.
Who teaches it?
-the runesmith/lord in question
Who's allowed to attend?
-anyone that passes their challenge they specifically set up for the rune they want to learn
How do you test their worthiness?
-up to the teacher in question, but most likely riddles, physical challenges like simulated desert corridor they must survive in, and basic runic knowledge tests (like carve the rune needed to survive this or get past this etc)

main thing is to cut down the time wasted for the teacher to cut out the chaff so they only meet the worthy that can learn their runes on offer.
 
tri2 said:
place where multiple rune lords/smiths who wish to teach set up their workshop/challenge (they can either do research in or around the area)
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Just want to point out, and I don't want to restart or get involved in the arguments again, but runesmiths, and runelords especially, have commitments to their holds. Leaving them to spend x decades or centuries somewhere else teaching is probably less appealing than just setting up trials where they live like Snorri, Hammerspite, and whoever else have done.
 
tri2 said:
How did you envision it?
-place where multiple rune lords/smiths who wish to teach set up their workshop/challenge (they can either do research in or around the area)
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Why do we need this?

99% of Dwarfs are going to look at the the proposed benefit of saving time and say that if the Beardling can't walk to find teachers willing to teach them Runes then they shouldn't be a Runesmith.

Let alone the sort of action commitment that would take. It would be actions spent corralling Runesmiths to do something that most of them won't want to do.
 
Cursix said:
Just want to point out, and I don't want to restart or get involved in the arguments again, but runesmiths, and runelords especially, have commitments to their holds. Leaving them to spend x decades or centuries somewhere else teaching is probably less appealing than just setting up trials where they live like Snorri, Hammerspite, and whoever else have done.
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that is why I said those who wish to, so most likely it will be locally trained runesmiths/future runelords or more radical older dwarves
MrHobbit said:
Why do we need this?

99% of Dwarfs are going to look at the the proposed benefit of saving time and say that if the Beardling can't walk to find teachers willing to teach them Runes then they shouldn't be a Runesmith.

Let alone the sort of action commitment that would take. It would be actions spent corralling Runesmiths to do something that most of them won't want to do.
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the benefit is not just for the students, a bunch of runesmiths/lords in the same place also allows for them to discuss among each other for other reasons
 
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On a completely unrelated note, Is Snorri going to go into battle with one eye?

Cos Depth perception is probably important when you're a walking WMD.

Maybe we should make a simple eye (with just one rune) before we go fight.
 
tri2 said:
the benefit is not just for the students, a bunch of runesmiths/lords in the same place also allows for them to discuss among each other for other reasons
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Yes but why do we need this?

That's the first thing Dwarfs are going to think about collating teaching efforts. If Beardlings can't even walk to learn, they don't deserve to learn. Runesmiths are secretive by nature and so any action cost just seems horrendous.

IronFist said:
On a completely unrelated note, Is Snorri going to go into battle with one eye?
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Back in my days Dwarfs went to war blind! Damn beardlings needing the ability to see to fight. See when the Beardlings on the March to Karag Dum went without the Storm! Coddled they are!

(soulcake said it'd be an option to make it manually or if Snorri will make one himself, idr if we had already been given the option)
soulcake said:
I'd give you a choice to make it a difficult action or not like with Orra's stuff.
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tri2 said:
How did you envision it?
-place where multiple rune lords/smiths who wish to teach set up their workshop/challenge (they can either do research in or around the area)
What is being taught?
-whatever they wish, with their name and what they are willing to teach on a plaque out front.
Who teaches it?
-the runesmith/lord in question
Who's allowed to attend?
-anyone that passes their challenge they specifically set up for the rune they want to learn
How do you test their worthiness?
-up to the teacher in question, but most likely riddles, physical challenges like simulated desert corridor they must survive in, and basic runic knowledge tests (like carve the rune needed to survive this or get past this etc)

main thing is to cut down the time wasted for the teacher to cut out the chaff so they only meet the worthy that can learn their runes on offer.
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OK so good answers. I hope it's OK if I point out some problems I see.

The biggest problem I see is with the worthiness. As pretty much the only example we have on how trials work we shall take hammerspite.
His trials last years and a very demanding. They are even dangerous (though hammerspite does have help on hand to prevent the worst).
They are also only trials for one rune.
Doing this on a academic scale will be a long process, with exceedingly small throughput and only guarantees you the right to one master rune.
Might the idea be useful for small scale runes like snorri has done? Maybe, but again, they are only small scale rune which are interesting to journeydwarfs on their journey. Master runesmiths have different priorities.
We also have runes we only teach to master, and we are very lax in our requirements, but that is because of special circumstances regarding the runes. Snorri (we) have decided the prostheses and sense runes are too important not to share, which is a valid decision to make but not one everyone will make for every rune.

In total I see the biggest problem of how to test worthiness for multiple runes that more then one Master can accept. Everyone has different definition of what worthy means and different levels of worthiness.
Teaching someone the rune of stacking takes less then if we were to teach the rune of mountainsouled.
 
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