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IIRC the Rune of Thungni aids in Runesmiths' casting abilities, right? Like Wrath and Ruin and the like.
Though considering our OOC knowledge regarding the Makerstrike combo, methinks the Rune of Thungni is basically a meta-rune with sublime effects that changes based on what Combo it's used on. Probably a Rune that rewards a Runesmith who shows proper dedication to His Art.
 
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IIRC the Rune of Thungni aids in Runesmiths' casting abilities, right? Like Wrath and Ruin and the like.
Though considering our OOC knowledge regarding the Makerstrike combo, methinks the Rune of Thungni is basically a meta-rune with sublime effects that changes based on what Combo it's used on. Probably a Rune that rewards a Runesmith who shows proper dedication to His Art.
No it does not. It improves the longevity of things crafted with it.
it seems to improve the craftsmanship of things. On weapons and armour, there has been a noted slowdown in terms of maintenance and degradation of the equipment itself and any Runes it bears. On structures, which is almost universally a Runesmith's workshop there has been a traceable improvement on the quality of goods leaving the shop in question, but again it could simply be because Runesmiths are a perfectionist sort and the Rune of Thungni is less seeni n the workshops of Journeymen and Younger Masters who may not have learned the Rune yet
Theres a reason that this rune is called odd in a post that describes all Ancestor runes as wacky.
Thungni is by far the weirdest ancestor rune.
 
No it does not. It improves the longevity of things crafted with it.

Theres a reason that this rune is called odd in a post that describes all Ancestor runes as wacky.
Thungni is by far the weirdest ancestor rune.
Considering the fact that Runes work by eating ambient magic and they work from get go by starting out with large pool, the effects of Rune of Thungni most likely improve these qualities. Namely increasing the magic capacity of a fresh rune, easing and empowering the draw of magic into existing rune and just maybe purifying it on its way, as one of the reasons for necessity of rune maintenance is that they gain metaphysical impurities. So either the Rune of Thungni improves the draw, passively "cleans" the Rune somewhat, or it purifies the incoming winds before they truly get into the rune a bit.

I think it might be useful looking into it when we really get into deep magic.
 
@Dark as Silver, @BungieONI, I have an idea for the Axe replacement for Snorri, and how it might synergize with his Primordial World theme.
Basically, it's meant to channel the deathworld aspect of the Hadean Era. Not in terms of MR Conduction or MR Meteorstrike (Compressed Meteorfall), which while I find them fine for the energy - convert - impact aspect of the 'I channel primordial dick energy to strike my foes', it doesn't give off the sheer ruinous might of the world's churning.

My personal go to Master Rune would be as following:
- Master Rune of Smiting: 'Every blow by a weapon bearing this Rune strikes with force beyond reckoning.' This got me into thinking of the sheer energy behind the force of the tectonic plates moving, especially during the World That Was. Rather than going towards esoteric shit which I'm not particularly good at, I think it would be a good idea to expand on the Primordial World theme via kinetic energy for our axe. Basically pure brute physical force for our weapon, which is kinda thematic for our chosen theme, and more likely to combo too! That, and our elemental bullshittery seems covered for the time being, save for ice / water, in which the former isn't synergistic to our Set Combo and the latter too piddly for it; we only have a Rune of Water, and it sucks in terms of combat.

The other two slots I'm not sure of, but I personally think of the many Runes we have, the Rune of Might, Cleaving, Impact, or Fury would likely synergize with the above in the context of creating a Combo and synergizing with our Set Combo. Honestly, anything that amplifies the kinetic or physical force would make a good case on how we could create something that embodies the physical force / kinetic energy involved during the world's genesis.

A shame we don't have something like the Master Rune of Skalf Blackhammer (Sundering), otherwise I would've pushed for that instead depending on how it's worded the moment we learned that particular Master Rune.

Thoughts?
 
Right, I haven't participated much recently in thread discussion but I've been following somewhat on the subject of further enhancing Primordial World Set Combo and I have some thoughts. Specifically in regards to including Oceans/Water themes.

I went back to the visions Snorri saw during the creation of Barak Azamar to get some sense of the actual place water had in the visions themselves and I noted some things, here I've basically pulled out the vision centric stuff and highlighted the stuff having to do with water;
Power Flows

The amulet hums inside the vault, Grungni's Rune shimmering with light.

You are underwater. The surface still, but underneath your eyes pierce the hundreds of meters of sapphire blue water to see the rocky floor. There in the center of your field of view a great crack in the earth, a ravine some thirty meters deep. The scene is frozen in time, perfectly still.

Will guides it​

The stillness breaks. It begins slowly but soon the earth shakes with enough force to crack open the ravine, a dull orange light peers out from the new opening before it is subsumed in a great cloud of steam, vapour and dust. Your vision obstructed and shook as badly as the surrounding environment.

Let song remind you.

Grimnir's Rune begins to glow.

You are pulled from the scene, upwards and upwards until you see that you were inside a lake in the center of a verdant island. You also see the land crack and break itself apart as the titanic energy of the earth in motion sends it all back under the sea, great waves emanating from the epicentre of the cataclysmic destruction.

The scene shifts and you know you are somewhere else entirely. A different island, as black as coal, with a series of fuming Volcanoes at its heart. Around it, a ring of steam is constantly rising. Whatever force brought you here brings you right to the edge, close enough to see the source of it.


Let mind shape it​

Lava.

Burning molten rock spews out from channels and holes in the rock, surging periodically like blood being pumped by a heart. It flows over the rocks in great flows, creating great steam curtains as it falls into the sea. Time passes faster and you see the rock build up as more and more lava cools or falls into the water.

The Island grows. Storms wrack its surface, carrying seeds of new life. Ages pass, the volcanoes cool and lichens eat away at the volcanic stone, shrubs can take root, followed by grasses, trees, then insects and the animals that ate them and each other.


Sing the song of creation

The Rune of Valaya flares then settles into a gentle glow.

Again and again, you are taken from place to place. Forced to see the power of the world at work. Scenes of such cataclysmic power that life is scoured for miles around, all done in the span of seconds. Acts that take so long to complete that it feels like entire civilizations could rise and fall, entirely unaware of the ancient processes acting around them.


The work of eternity

Mogrim's rune shimmers, sputtering before steadying out.

You see waterdrops fall on bare stone, carving away at it like a mason with a chisel over millennia. Caverns so large that they boggle the mind formed over eons, seen happening over the course of seconds.

To a being who could live through such a process, to one who would live forever, what difference was there between a moment and forever?


Wrought onto mortal plane​

The water continues carving even as it forms stalactites and stalagmites in seconds, fusing into pillars that grow large enough to dwarf even the oldest Wutroth. Rock is worn away to reveal great seams of metal that glint in the light. Gems and crystals are exposed to or form in the darkness. Regardless of the method, all are the product of a massive span of time.

Legend and Myth

Thungni's Rune burns, his symbol outshining the other four trinkets on the necklace.

It is the work of countless processes, all happening independently of each other and on timescales that make even the seeming agelessness of the Ancestors seem so...mortal.

All of it is like walking back and finally seeing the full mural. The forest coming into view after spending so long staring at, not even the trees, but at a single leaf. The whole of the earth is moving; displaying constant acts of destruction and creation done thousands of times in thousands of places, all without yours or anyone's notice. This was true agelessness, true eternity. It is not static, unmoving stone, it is the beating heart of something so large that you are but a speck of a speck.

Not dead at all.

But so clearly, so painfully, obviously
Alive.

The work of the Smith

The bust of Thungni, unseen by you, glitters like a multihued gem. His eyes blazing stronger than they ever have before.

No there are a few things that emerge that we might to be able to use in order to bring in Water to the set without actually having a rune directly connected to water. First off water is positioned as 'still' and 'frozen' (though the second might be a bit of a stretch); there are a few runes dealing with both concepts, but that's the weakest potential avenues. Stronger, I think, would be something connected to the imagery of water carving stone but that's also something ore of a stretch to do with what runes we have access too, not impossible though I think.

So onto some possible combos;
Carving
  • Master Rune of Passage/Wandering
  • Rune of Grungni (he's the Ancestor of mining and Stoneworking, though his rune itself might not be all that applicable)
  • Rune of Cleaving/Striking
Stillness/Cold
Not many good applicable Master Runes for this theme, so maybe just something with regular runes? If we get lucky and the Storm of Magic lasts past a turn or two or we get another sometime soon it should still be possible to craft something more than worthy.
  • Master Rune of Dismay (fear is sort of like stillness?) or Rune of Cold
  • Rune of Silence/Lightstep
  • Rune of Slowness
None of this is very developed, it was just a thought that struck me this morning and some potential combinations that I put together after trawling through the rune list, more to put it out there into the thread rather than convince anyone of these specific combinations.
 
No there are a few things that emerge that we might to be able to use in order to bring in Water to the set without actually having a rune directly connected to water. First off water is positioned as 'still' and 'frozen' (though the second might be a bit of a stretch); there are a few runes dealing with both concepts, but that's the weakest potential avenues. Stronger, I think, would be something connected to the imagery of water carving stone but that's also something ore of a stretch to do with what runes we have access too, not impossible though I think.

So onto some possible combos;
I do think possible proper water runes will be very connected with motion, but we don't exactly have a rune just for that.
 
@Dark as Silver, @BungieONI, I have an idea for the Axe replacement for Snorri, and how it might synergize with his Primordial World theme.
Basically, it's meant to channel the deathworld aspect of the Hadean Era. Not in terms of MR Conduction or MR Meteorstrike (Compressed Meteorfall), which while I find them fine for the energy - convert - impact aspect of the 'I channel primordial dick energy to strike my foes', it doesn't give off the sheer ruinous might of the world's churning.

My personal go to Master Rune would be as following:
- Master Rune of Smiting: 'Every blow by a weapon bearing this Rune strikes with force beyond reckoning.' This got me into thinking of the sheer energy behind the force of the tectonic plates moving, especially during the World That Was. Rather than going towards esoteric shit which I'm not particularly good at, I think it would be a good idea to expand on the Primordial World theme via kinetic energy for our axe. Basically pure brute physical force for our weapon, which is kinda thematic for our chosen theme, and more likely to combo too! That, and our elemental bullshittery seems covered for the time being, save for ice / water, in which the former isn't synergistic to our Set Combo and the latter too piddly for it; we only have a Rune of Water, and it sucks in terms of combat.

The other two slots I'm not sure of, but I personally think of the many Runes we have, the Rune of Might, Cleaving, Impact, or Fury would likely synergize with the above in the context of creating a Combo and synergizing with our Set Combo. Honestly, anything that amplifies the kinetic or physical force would make a good case on how we could create something that embodies the physical force / kinetic energy involved during the world's genesis.

A shame we don't have something like the Master Rune of Skalf Blackhammer (Sundering), otherwise I would've pushed for that instead depending on how it's worded the moment we learned that particular Master Rune.

Thoughts?
Thats really not a whole to go forward from. I don't think Earthquakes are a bad idea for the follow up weapon, its tied with the time/shyish concept for me. However there are a lot of choices to go with.
Apart from MSmiting, a case could also be made for MBreaking and compressed Meteorfall (the fire of meteorfall is likely not a great choice). And er so many choices for the possible lesser runes.

Right now I'd lean towards MSmiting, Cleaving, Striking. A mighty stone breaking blow delivered along the weakest fault plane, that is precisely an earthquake.
If I could still convince people to pick up the pick axe commission this could be an excellent test of that idea.
 
I wonder if there's any metaphysical connection between the King of the Skies and our new cloak, due to the Storm of Magic, the Arcane Fulcrum, as well as the involvement of Kholek's organs- I mean, between the KotS consuming Kholek's Heart and gaining power over Lightning and we using Kholek's Brain on the Rune of Lightning on a Banner that synergizes into a Combo and becoming the third piece of our Set Combo... I wouldn't be surprised if something funky will happen during the forging scene.
 
No it does not. It improves the longevity of things crafted with it.

Theres a reason that this rune is called odd in a post that describes all Ancestor runes as wacky.
Thungni is by far the weirdest ancestor rune.
I'm leaning towards Puc's idea on magic capacitance and absorption being an explanation for the longevity thing. Especially given what happened with Glittering Beacon and Amplification. It seems to have a bit of a... call it a pointer effect, to point magical energy at our rune casting as well.
 
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Honestly i kinda wish we had any rune for big bodies of water to go off of, because the thematic of the Ocean as anti-magic item would totally work.

The weight of the Ocean smothering all is a powerful imagery (Did you know that if you detonated Nuke in Mariana Trench, nothing would happen because the sheer weight would snuff the nuclear conflagration out?). There is just... nothing. To even remotely base the theme off of. So frustrating.
 
I prefer the chilling the winds to nothing theme over ocean tbh. I agree that ocean runes are not going to be easy to find and Snorri is almost certainly not going to be going sailing any time soon so he's not going to come up with them on his own.

Glaciers would work a lot better and can fit the primordial world freezing over into an iceball. There is a MEverfrost which could be maybe used to form the magic freezing combo with a spellbreaking/eating rune and a siphoning rune. Just have to find someone who knows it and trade for it.
 
I'm leaning towards Puc's idea on magic capacitance and absorption being an explanation for the longevity thing. Especially given what happened with Glittering Beacon and Amplification. It seems to have a bit of a... call it a pointer effect, to point magical energy at our rune casting as well.
It doesn't explain the increase in mundane longevity and the need for less maintenance there. So its clearly not a complete answer at the very least. But its too far into Durins Consternation for us to really say much about the possible pool stuff.
It also doesn't explain the building effects so either the function changes despite it appearing to not change in form or its something else that explains both.
🤷‍♂️
Ancestor Runes are wacky. I wouldn't rule out: 'makes a thing more pleasing to Thungni' as an explanation and it turns out Thungni's big bugbear is things not lasting for millenia.
 
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Hmmm... Actually, you know, here's a thought. If you want something that's about "motion" or "wearing away stone", then... well, it's not water themed but I think I've actually gotten an epiphany and gotten a cool idea.

Our hammer channels our armor, right? Zharrgal the fiery hammer, draws from the fiery-metal-earth-core Barak Azamar armor.

And our axe would therefore draw from...?

That's right, I'm suggesting we make an Axe that is to our Cloak, what Zharrgal is to Barak Azamar.

And we've got some good runes for this:

Master Rune of Currents, Necessary Ingredients: [T2] Griffon's Brain: The weapon cuts like the biting winds at the mountain's peak, faster, sharper and unblockable.
Master Rune of Flight, Necessary Ingredients: [T2] Great Eagle's Feathers: Weapons cannot be lost, and can be thrown at the enemy as if launched from a bolt thrower
Master Rune of Grimnir, Necessary Ingredients: [T2] Griffon Feathers: The Bearer will fight as if channelling the Ancestor's will, unhindered by Injury or Hurt until either they or their quarry are killed.
Master Rune of Smiting, Necessary Ingredients: [T3] Stonehorn's Horns: Every blow by a weapon bearing this Rune strikes with force beyond reckoning.
Master Rune of Thunderbolts: Necessary Ingredients: [T3] Storm Wyrm's Blood/Dragon Ogre Shaggoth's Blood: The weapon crackles with barely controlled lightning that erupts in a massive burst of electricity that travels through nearby foes or can be concentrated at a lesser foe in a single strike.

The Master Rune of Currents. In fact, I think some people had a neat idea for a Pickaxe that might have used it? Or maybe it used the Ancestor Rune of Grungni, I'm not sure. Anyway. Either way, the "cutting wind" thematics would be viable here.

The Master Rune of Thunderbolts is another natural if you want something to channel the power of the storm drawn in by the banner. I mean, fullstop, if you want something that channels a stormcloak, a stormaxe is a good pick, no? This is just, well, a natural combo; the storm banner would be able to draw in energy from the skies, and then axe would be able to unleash the energy.

The Master Rune of Grimnir one, is actually taking a slightly different approach towards "the primordial world." Namely, I focused on the idea of the indomitable will of the ancestor. Of something that is able to bear and shoulder the whole world upon its shoulders. Something that can stand up and be unbent and unbowed and unbroken in the ancient world. The valor and fury of Grimnir.

MFlight is a bit of an offhand thought, but. If we could get a returning axe empowered with pyroclastic power, that could be cool?

MSmiting is about raw power and energy. The sheer power of the primordial world. Of course, it would need good secondary runes to actually attune it to primordial-world-thematics, so... yeah. Better choose wisely.

-------------------

Another idea I had for primordial world stuff is... Well.

The sun.

The sun always looked upon the world, no? It saw all that happened. It provided nourishing light. And helped melt the icecaps over time, leading to life. It illuminated the world.

I have some vague idea of a prosthetic with a Rune of Forged Eye and some esoteric or cool rune which can be MPurification or... something, I dunno. It's all a bit vague and weird right now. I don't have a fully concrete idea. Eye, Thungni, Light? Eye, Ties, Gazul?

Eye, Ties, Gazul could be cool.
 
While I was originally fond of the oceans/depths theme for anti magic I'm going to be pushing ice/cold for it now. The Brana refer to Thugni as someone who chills the Winds to stillness. Not a windstiller, he stops them completely. While an oceans theme could drown magic, I'm more inclined now to go with the Brana's title of rune smiths and still them with cold.
 
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Is there a wind of magic, that controls water?
I have honestly never seen one apart from the occasional Azyr rain cloud. This is a rather jarring lack of elemental conjuration, since basically everything else exists in some form.

Apart from that and our current lack of Water-Runes, I have trouble imagining a useful or rather practical application of water on the battlefield. We are not situated at the ocean so it's not like the molten rock Zharrgal is flinging about, but a combination of conjuration and control.

The moment one is missing the whole thing either becomes extremely limited in usage or an uncontrollable AOE.

Also siding with the Ice thing.

I'm not even sure wether we can use the Ice in the North as water, since the two seem to be thematically and metaphorically disconnected.
 
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Is there a wind of magic, that controls water?
Ghyran

It can produce the following:

Geyser - Causes a geyser of water to shoot up from an area of natural earth, knocking over (and out, potentially) anyone in range in a direction of the caster's choosing. After the initial burst, a small pool forms in the designated area, providing fresh water for the next hour

Quagmirk's Embrace - The area around the wizard becomes waterlogged, dampening both flames of mundane origin and those of Aqshy.[6a]
 
I prefer the chilling the winds to nothing theme over ocean tbh. I agree that ocean runes are not going to be easy to find and Snorri is almost certainly not going to be going sailing any time soon so he's not going to come up with them on his own.

Glaciers would work a lot better and can fit the primordial world freezing over into an iceball. There is a MEverfrost which could be maybe used to form the magic freezing combo with a spellbreaking/eating rune and a siphoning rune. Just have to find someone who knows it and trade for it.
Yeah, it's a shame we don't have everfrost, or I probably would've put it as the center of my combo. Other then just hoping it crops up somewhere, I think our best would be just sort of, eh...making something that fits the combo? Either an ice themed or antimagic themed combo, then compressing it into a master rune we can use for the ice/antimagic equipment. I'd probably favour an antimagic rune over an ice rune though, if only because while the ice theme is important antimagic is the primary goal of the combo.

Edit: Mind you, if we went with an ice combo to compress into a master rune over an antimagic combo we could probably give the proof-of-concept weapon to Gimli, since it fits with the ice cloak in the prince set.
 
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I know we haven't been the ones to initiate trades before, but can we not see if any of the runelords we're on good terms with know it and initiate the trade ourselves? @soulcake

This was a while ago and maybe the answer's changed in the time since, but when ppl asked about this back in the day, soul cake was pretty clear that he wasn't prepared to administrate an open-ended trade system voters could access whenever they liked and that he would limit rune trades to specific opportunities offered by him, if only to make the whole thing manageable on his end.
 
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