RHUNRIKKI STROLLAR (Warhammer Fantasy Golden Age Dwarf Runelord Quest)

[soulcake]

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Discord.

On Thread Etiquette:
I'm not going to weigh in on the logic of either side's arguments, but I will ask that everyone read over what they write and really consider if the words they used are polite and won't be inflammatory intentionally or not. You cant account for people's tolerances perfectly but at least try to say your piece without saying things that can be easily construed as overly dismissive of the other side of the argument, thank you.

Please endeavour to be cordial. :^)

 

[EldritchObserver]

[X] Gromthi Rinri: Hearth
[X] [Dum] Be factual and as objective as possible. You are here to inform and give opinions if asked, nothing more, nothing less. You can't say for certain if it's the best use of the opportunity, but some people will doubtlessly appreciate your attempt at objectivity. The question is whether they'll be Dwarfs whose opinions you particularly care for.

 

[Woltaire]

On the note of the priest I would note she said good or bad reason she not saying that all change is bad and that we shouldn't change any traditions but we must keep in mind the reasons behind it too

[X] Gromthi Rinri: Hearth
[X] Gromthi Rinri: Home
[X] Gromthi Rinri: Healing

any of these sound cool to me

[X] [Forger] Books.
Runesmiths do not write things down regarding Runes willy nilly. Tomes containing Runic lore are cryptically written and layered with some of the most complex ciphers, mind benders and puzzles a Master's mind can conjure, and even then you are loath to put such hard-won knowledge down on something so, relatively, easy to discover or steal! But the benefit is great, though it will doubtlessly rankle at the most Conservative members of the Guild. Unorthodox and faster. Take on Book Binding: Cost: [6 actions] Peerless Production will proc.
- [X] [When] Write-in: Beginning of Turn 45

[ ] [Forger] Both.
Do both. The knowledge has been proven, the usefulness undeniable, therefore it must be shared with all the speed and efficiency the Dawi can bring to bear when sufficiently motivated. It will be expensive and it will be very unorthodox, but the results will speak for themselves. Cost: [1 actions] Locked in for 4 turns. Take on Book Binding: Cost: [6 actions] Peerless Production will proc.
- [X] [When] Write-in: Beginning of Turn 42

I think people are really overstating the dangers here with the books, these are master runesmiths and that means they are going to put these books with a dwarf level of security then more some. The chances of landing with chaos dwarfs and then figuring it out or second to none and as snorri said if they get, if they break the cyphers, if they figure out how to rune make, and if they have knowledge to do it.... well we got much much bigger problems. Also I would not that gromli is still incredibly rare too and will not even be close to something that many dwarfs will use, it not iron or steel more, think of it like super super rare earth metal that also has a narrow application to it(that we know) also if we keep the plan going and make it so every master dwarf smith then do it then teaching it doesn't stop that cause chance are they will write it down. Furthemore their is a chance that all this could be lost, we have not stop the rise of skaven, or the war of vengeance or perhaps a war with the orges(since the orks aren't anymore slowing them down we are expanding further east, their a chance and it more than this rune as well. It establishing a tradition of writing down knowledge so that it not lost forever and can add to collective runamking, but I am still fine with teaching it though

[X] [Dum] Tailor your Report
- [X] Radical: Try and earn the respect and interest of the more radical members of the House. Talk about the existence of the mammoth, the resourcefulness of Dum's last Runesmiths, the safeguarding of the Guild's Secrets and the death of the Frurndar and their erstwhile allies.
- [X] Yourself: Emphasize what actually interests you and what you feel is most important. The potential research, the survival of the untainted and their subsequent clearing by Gazul. Not to mention the odd phenomena encountered during and on the way there; like the passing of time, the magic-wielding Dawi and the armoured Beastmen.

other people already made good argument for these, and snorri never been one for politics, also I want to talk about the mammoth to see what the runelords think of it

 

[JackOfAll]

[X] Gromthi Rinri: Hearth
[X] [Dum] Tailor your Report
- [X] Yourself: Emphasize what actually interests you and what you feel is most important. The potential research, the survival of the untainted and their subsequent clearing by Gazul. Not to mention the odd phenomena encountered during and on the way there; like the passing of time, the magic-wielding Dawi and the armoured Beastmen.
[X] [Forger] Both.
Do both. The knowledge has been proven, the usefulness undeniable, therefore it must be shared with all the speed and efficiency the Dawi can bring to bear when sufficiently motivated. It will be expensive and it will be very unorthodox, but the results will speak for themselves. Cost: [1 actions] Locked in for 4 turns. Take on Book Binding: Cost: [6 actions] Peerless Production will proc.

 

[Xantalos]

[X] Gromthi Rinri: Healing
[X] [Forger] Both.
Do both. The knowledge has been proven, the usefulness undeniable, therefore it must be shared with all the speed and efficiency the Dawi can bring to bear when sufficiently motivated. It will be expensive and it will be very unorthodox, but the results will speak for themselves. Cost: [1 actions] Locked in for 4 turns. Take on Book Binding: Cost: [6 actions] Peerless Production will proc.

 

[Elbrasch]

[X] [Dum] Tailor your Report
- [X] Yourself: Emphasize what actually interests you and what you feel is most important. The potential research, the survival of the untainted and their subsequent clearing by Gazul. Not to mention the odd phenomena encountered during and on the way there; like the passing of time, the magic-wielding Dawi and the armoured Beastmen.
[X] [Forger] Both.
Do both. The knowledge has been proven, the usefulness undeniable, therefore it must be shared with all the speed and efficiency the Dawi can bring to bear when sufficiently motivated. It will be expensive and it will be very unorthodox, but the results will speak for themselves. Cost: [1 actions] Locked in for 4 turns. Take on Book Binding: Cost: [6 actions] Peerless Production will proc.
- [X] [When] Write-in: Beginning of Turn 42

 

[MrHobbit]

I think people are really overstating the dangers here with the books, these are runelords and that means they are going to put these books with a dwarf level of security then more some.

Click to shrink...

The books are going to go out to all Runesmiths. You can hardly say that all Runesmiths are that cautious with their books. They certainly would not be at the pinnacle of their profession's craft and wisdom.

 

[UlseDovThur]

[X] Gromthi Rinri: Hearth
[X] [Dum] Be factual and as objective as possible. You are here to inform and give opinions if asked, nothing more, nothing less. You can't say for certain if it's the best use of the opportunity, but some people will doubtlessly appreciate your attempt at objectivity. The question is whether they'll be Dwarfs whose opinions you particularly care for.
[X] [Forger] Teaching.
- [X] [When] Write-in: Beginning of Turn 42

 

[Fayhem]

We generally profit more from 3 or 4 actions spent though and we do have 1 action things we can do there. For example we can slot in one of the odd places.

Click to shrink...

Only Soul of the Earth can benefit from 4 actions specifically, actually. Everything else either only procs on 3 actions, or in the case of Peerless production it procs on 2 actions, then 3 actions, then again on 5 actions (and then now there's the 40% chance for a free action per action thing, but that's not contingent on using any specific number of actions together). Having two actions available gives us more maximally efficient choices than only having one action does, while not ruling out any of the options that can be done with one action. So since I don't have anything specific in mind, I'm choosing to expand the possibility space that options can reasonably be selected from.

 

[aceraptor]

I think people are really overstating the dangers here with the books, these are runelords and that means they are going to put these books with a dwarf level of security then more some. The chances of landing with chaos dwarfs and then figuring it out or second to none and as snorri said if they get, if they break the cyphers, if they figure out how to rune make, and if they have knowledge to do it.... well we got much much bigger problems. Also I would not that gromli is still incredibly rare too and will not even be close to something that many dwarfs will use, it not iron or steel more, think of it like super super rare earth metal that also has a narrow application to it(that we know) also if we keep the plan going and make it so every master dwarf smith then do it then teaching it doesn't stop that cause chance are they will write it down. Furthemore their is a chance that all this could be lost, we have not stop the rise of skaven, or the war of vengeance or perhaps a war with the orges(since the orks aren't anymore slowing them down we are expanding further east, their a chance and it more than this rune as well. It establishing a tradition of writing down knowledge so that it not lost forever and can add to collective runamking, but I am still fine with teaching it though

Click to shrink...

Its not just Runelords that will be getting the books. Snorri wants to share it with all those in the Guild that is capable of it. That means Master Runesmiths as well.

Also, its not just the security of the books that should be considered but also the political backdrop of the situation. As I brought it up before the Runesmiths/Runelords are very prickly and paranoid about who and how they share Runic knowledge to. Dum was a exceedingly close call in terms of runic knowledge leaking to those that should not have it.

The worry isn't about a Runesmith potentially being a Chaos dorf (which will hopefully never happen) but the real worry is if a Hold falls, whether from Chaos Dorf infiltration or from external attack, if Runic knowledge is written down and the tomes are recovered by adversaries to Karaz Ankor then sooner or later the cypher will be broken.

With the example of Dum so recent and fresh in everyone's mind it may well be a bridge too far for many a runesmith/runelords.

Edit: After all, had runic knowledge been written down at Dum then all the Frundar would have had to do is decipher tomes they would have captured. And they would have had centuries to do so.

 

[DkArthas]

[X] Gromthi Rinri: Hearth
[X] [Dum] Tailor your Report
- [X] Yourself: Emphasize what actually interests you and what you feel is most important. The potential research, the survival of the untainted and their subsequent clearing by Gazul. Not to mention the odd phenomena encountered during and on the way there; like the passing of time, the magic-wielding Dawi and the armoured Beastmen.
[X] [Forger] Teaching.
- [X] [When] Write-in: Beginning of Turn 42

Books are too easily stolen

 

[hcvquizibo]

[X] Gromthi Rinri: Hearth
[X] [Dum] Be factual and as objective as possible. You are here to inform and give opinions if asked, nothing more, nothing less. You can't say for certain if it's the best use of the opportunity, but some people will doubtlessly appreciate your attempt at objectivity. The question is whether they'll be Dwarfs whose opinions you particularly care for.
[X] [Forger] Teaching.

 

[Dark as Silver]

I misspoke. I should have used Noble, instead of Royal.



My Read on it, is that only Noble clans are eligible for Kingship, and that in Modern times (going by the Zornish politics sections), Nobility is most easily defined as descendant from the ancestors. Even the Zornish clans that predate the ancestors are falling in line with that custom.

So Winterhearth is a noble clan, having their own does not make them Royal, but it does make them eligible for Kingship. Kingship happens when a hold turns into a Karak, case in point, when Otrek was made King.

We are a noble clan whose preferred occupation is Runesmith, with a tendency to favor Valaya related occupation. Snorri, Fjolla and Jorri (and Snerra) are half-bard due to Iggun Frostbraids being from a Clan of Skalds, but it doesn't extend to the whole Clan Winterhearth.

Click to shrink...

Ah in that case I'd agree with the correction. And thanks for correcting me about the Skald thing being from Snorri's mum's clan.
Although to extend your point a little, Kraka Drakk was a Karak before it had a king, I'd suggest holds become Karaks (and need kings) when they have multiple different clans and thus a mediator is needed between them.

 

[Rotekian]

[X] Gromthi Rinri: Hearth
[X] [Dum] Tailor your Report
- [X] Yourself: Emphasize what actually interests you and what you feel is most important. The potential research, the survival of the untainted and their subsequent clearing by Gazul. Not to mention the odd phenomena encountered during and on the way there; like the passing of time, the magic-wielding Dawi and the armoured Beastmen.
[X] [Forger] Teaching.
- [X] [When] Write-in: Beginning of Turn 42

 

[NSMS]

There are situations where I believe runelore should be written down, but this isn't one of them. This isn't a cheap, entry-level rune that means little if it gets out, and this isn't a rune that's at risk of being lost if we die (and we're not at imminent risk of dying anyway), so keep to tradition.

[x] [Dum] Tailor your Report
-[X] Yourself: Emphasize what actually interests you and what you feel is most important. The potential research, the survival of the untainted and their subsequent clearing by Gazul. Not to mention the odd phenomena encountered during and on the way there; like the passing of time, the magic-wielding Dawi and the armoured Beastmen.
[x] [Forger] Teaching.

 

[spiritualatheist]

[X] [Dum] Tailor your Report
- [X] Yourself: Emphasize what actually interests you and what you feel is most important. The potential research, the survival of the untainted and their subsequent clearing by Gazul. Not to mention the odd phenomena encountered during and on the way there; like the passing of time, the magic-wielding Dawi and the armoured Beastmen.

 

[Jreengus]

Only Soul of the Earth can benefit from 4 actions specifically, actually. Everything else either only procs on 3 actions, or in the case of Peerless production it procs on 2 actions, then 3 actions, then again on 5 actions (and then now there's the 40% chance for a free action per action thing, but that's not contingent on using any specific number of actions together). Having two actions available gives us more maximally efficient choices than only having one action does, while not ruling out any of the options that can be done with one action. So since I don't have anything specific in mind, I'm choosing to expand the possibility space that options can reasonably be selected from.

Click to shrink...

It's not about individual traits but how they combine. Journeyman of the Odd applies to our entire research queue so everything gets +2 at 3 actions, for stuff where that's the only thing that procs it means we get +66% extra actions if we spend 3 actions. For stuff that also procs soul of the earth we get +50% actions for 2 actions and +100% actions for 3 or 4 actions. If it triggers mind for constructs we get nothing at 2 and +100% for 3. Looking through our research list from Turn 41 the only thing that wouldn't benefit from being bumped up to 3 actions is the firebird feather and maybe the lion autopsy (Depends on what we would get from the 2 overflow that spending 3 actions in one go would give.)

 

[DerechteNikolaus]

[X] Gromthi Rinri: Hearth
[X] [Dum] Be factual and as objective as possible. You are here to inform and give opinions if asked, nothing more, nothing less. You can't say for certain if it's the best use of the opportunity, but some people will doubtlessly appreciate your attempt at objectivity. The question is whether they'll be Dwarfs whose opinions you particularly care for.
[X] [Forger] Teaching.
- [X] [When] Write-in: Beginning of Turn 42

 

[Dutch]

[X] Gromthi Rinri: Home

 

[tygerbright]

[X] Gromthi Rinri: Hearth
[X] [Dum] Be factual and as objective as possible. You are here to inform and give opinions if asked, nothing more, nothing less. You can't say for certain if it's the best use of the opportunity, but some people will doubtlessly appreciate your attempt at objectivity. The question is whether they'll be Dwarfs whose opinions you particularly care for.
[X] [Forger] Teaching.
- [X] [When] Write-in: Beginning of Turn 42

 

[Dutch]

I do want to point out that the book isn't "add water and sugar, then stir for 15 minutes."

It'll be a mess of klinkarun, vague text, riddles, puzzles and ciphers several layers deep. Can a book be stolen? Yes. But even decipher basic klinkarun is mess. Let alone whatever maddness Snorri comes up with.

 

[Woltaire]

The books are going to go out to all Runesmiths. You can hardly say that all Runesmiths are that cautious with their books. They certainly would not be at the pinnacle of their profession's craft and wisdom.

Click to shrink...

ah my bad don't know why I said runelords it going to masterrunsmiths still very good secruity and stuff my mistake though

Its not just Runelords that will be getting the books. Snorri wants to share it with all those in the Guild that is capable of it. That means Master Runesmiths as well.

Also, its not just the security of the books that should be considered but also the political backdrop of the situation. As I brought it up before the Runesmiths/Runelords are very prickly and paranoid about who and how they share Runic knowledge to. Dum was a exceedingly close call in terms of runic knowledge leaking to those that should not have it.

The worry isn't about a Runesmith potentially being a Chaos dorf (which will hopefully never happen) but the real worry is if a Hold falls, whether from Chaos Dorf infiltration or from external attack, if Runic knowledge is written down and the tomes are recovered by adversaries to Karaz Ankor then sooner or later the cypher will be broken.

With the example of Dum so recent and fresh in everyone's mind it may well be a bridge too far for many a runesmith/runelords.

Edit: After all, had runic knowledge been written down at Dum then all the Frundar would have had to do is decipher tomes they would have captured. And they would have had centuries to do so.

Click to shrink...

yah my bad on that, I think since it the runelord conference and everything I was just though just to runelord my bad

well to rune in the first place though you got to have basic knowledge and much more knowledge on runes as well to get even close to attempting a rune, it like being reading reading a book on non euclidean geometry then figuring out basic geometry from it but harder. Also a sorcerer could easily just steal information from a runemith mind too. Like their a risk a super low low low low risk but yah it could happen. Also this assuming they get the book break Snorri cyphers, and then don't get killed by angry dwarfs. Also chaos dwarf having do something similar to dum is basically non existent, chaos cults yes but allowing them to rise up... no know that we know all the signs of it, I think zero chance of a dum situation especially since every dwarf who knows of them will bring their hammer on them so fast if their are any signs of it. Also my worry is that this isn't like the rune of stone this is comparatively will always be a rare used rune, since you got to be super rich to be able to use it. Also as snorri option says this will rankle the most conservative only and has been used before so many other runelords think this is a perfectly safe method of distributing knowledge. Also that means some conerative will be fine with it too.

 

[Bark]

[X] Gromthi Rinri: Hearth
[X] [Dum] Tailor your Report
- [X] Yourself: Emphasize what actually interests you and what you feel is most important. The potential research, the survival of the untainted and their subsequent clearing by Gazul. Not to mention the odd phenomena encountered during and on the way there; like the passing of time, the magic-wielding Dawi and the armoured Beastmen.
[X] [Forger] Teaching.
- [X] [When] Write-in: Beginning of Turn 42

 

[Jreengus]

For anyone who missed Soulcake said about the book and Frurndar:

As for arguments about the Frurndar gaining access to Gromril Chainmail with a Chainforger.

There would be far more significant problems at play if there are Chaos Dwarfs with access to, let alone the ability to make, a Chainforger is all I'll say on the issue.

Click to shrink...

So I don't think chorfs might get it and build their own to be a very good argument against writing a book; however I still think it's a bad idea to write a book.

Writing a book is unorthodox and Snorri has been majorly pushing it with his unorthodoxy, I really don't want to push it to far on that front and go from being an unorthodox but respected runelord to a disgracefully unorthodox one. While I don't think this book will be the straw that breaks the camels back there I do think it will be a completely unnecessary load on the camel. This is especially true considering Snorri's recent actions, in particular allowing non dwarfs into his retinue and teaching the rune of forged limb to whoever wants it; either of those actions could lead to something bad happening in the future and if that happens having written a book instead of teaching the traditional way isn't going to reflect well on us. Add onto that all worry around the chorfs getting rune lore that will have the runelords even more on edge than usual and it's just not worth it for an opportunity to (probably) save 1 action.

 

[Ptolemy03]

[X] Gromthi Rinri: Hearth

 

[Woltaire]

For anyone who missed Soulcake said about the book and Frurndar:


So I don't think chorfs might get it and build their own to be a very good argument against writing a book; however I still think it's a bad idea to write a book.

Writing a book is unorthodox and Snorri has been majorly pushing it with his unorthodoxy, I really don't want to push it to far on that front and go from being an unorthodox but respected runelord to a disgracefully unorthodox one. While I don't think this book will be the straw that breaks the camels back there I do think it will be a completely unnecessary load on the camel. This is especially true considering Snorri's recent actions, in particular allowing non dwarfs into his retinue and teaching the rune of forged limb to whoever wants it; either of those actions could lead to something bad happening in the future and if that happens having written a book instead of teaching the traditional way isn't going to reflect well on us. Add onto that all worry around the chorfs getting rune lore that will have the runelords even more on edge than usual and it's just not worth it for an opportunity to (probably) save 1 action.

Click to shrink...

I don't want to redo the whole debate but in many people opinion teaching it to the master rune smiths who show up is the traditional option though that what hammerspite(I think that his name) is doing down south and when the trial vote came up it talked about others had the same thing/ it was seen by many that not teaching it to everyone was not the traditional option and was seen as trying to form a voting block and going into runesmith politics and some other stuff I am probably forgetting. Also note the radicals, moderates and some conservatives will be fine with it only the MOST conservative will be grumbling at us. So while it not the norm, it not like the Brana one. I am still fine with doing teaching though fyi