Vote tally - Puella Magi Adfligo Systema
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[X] Rules: Do not reveal loops, do not witchbomb, do not potential bomb. Do not interrupt others, break update for vote if a response is required that is not covered by this vote. Sabrina's tone should be calm, thoughtful, conciliatory. No braindamage, full serious mode.
[X] Take a moment to calm down. Apologize to Sayaka. You had honestly been wanting to establish general process for handling future events, and didn't think about how manipulative it might look. Offer cleanses.
[X] Make it clear that you won't do anything different regarding O&K without express agreement from the entire group.
[X] Arrange for privacy for all four, by timestop or griefhax. If griefhax is used, employ grief fog to hunt down hidden Incubators within field.
[X] Establish your motives. Explain that you knew about O&K, just like the others. That your knowledge includes things that have been or could have been. Describe events feeding into Oriko's self-destructive approach to "heroism", and how your metaknowledge indicates she would only act if she thought it would be self-sacrificingly "heroic". Apparently whoever it was that gave you that knowledge made sure that you couldn't help but feel empathy for Oriko, despite her attacking you and your friends.
[X] Establish your position. House arrest keeps Oriko in place she found her father's body. Justice is one thing, that is something else. Your objections aren't over imprisonment or punishment, but that it be humane. House arrest also has only worked because Oriko has cooperated.
[X] Establish situation. The people involved, the limitations on our actions, our options for handling O&K, and the ramifications of those options. (See below the vote for details on this.) Don't delve into Homura's concerns, she knows them and doesn't want them brought up.
[X] Make proposal:
-[X] Change imprisonment location. Add electronic security to location.
-[X] Add mundane and magical tracking to O&K. Mami tracking ribbon and house arrest ankle tracker as concrete examples.
-[X] Scheduled outings with guard(s) -- prisoners get yard time, after all.
-[X] Bring up having a Sayaklone guard.
-[X] Continued community service.
-[X] Any anti-magic used on security measures, or other sort of break-out attempt, escalates our response and their punishment. Make this clear to O&K.
-[X] Make it clear you'd accept suggestions. This isn't "my way or the highway".
-[X] If proposal is insufficiently punishing, ask what would be sufficient.
[X] OOC meta-note: Take as much screen-time as needed to fully detail Sabrina's motives, position, and thoughts on the matter, even if it takes multiple updates or requires a time-skip to preserve proper story flow. We've repeatedly run into issues where Sabrina breezed through things that votes had intended to go over more fully, or had Sabrina act in ways counter to the intent of the vote, due to the "150 words of vague direction" limitation. I'm utterly ignoring that limitation here, because I think it would do vastly more harm than good to try to play wordgames instead of actually addressing the update.
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[X] Rules: Do not reveal loops, do not witchbomb, do not potential bomb. Do not interrupt others, break update for vote if a response is required that is not covered by this vote. Sabrina's tone should be calm, thoughtful, conciliatory. No braindamage, full serious mode.
[X] You're doing the thing where you fail to actually answer her question again, aren't you?
[X] The full explanation for that is going to be a little long but needs to happen. There's a lot of background. Before that, apologize to Sayaka -- You had honestly been wanting to establish general process for handling future events, and didn't think about how manipulative it might look.
[X] Arrange for privacy for all four, by timestop or griefhax. If griefhax is used, employ grief fog to hunt down hidden Incubators within field.
[X] Go over your metaknowledge of Oriko's pre-contracting background in detail. Cover all the traumas and their impacts on her. This might take a while but it needs to be done and it needs to be done thoroughly. Two goals: humanizing Oriko, making it clear that the house arrest is Not Good For Her. Also, cover the contents and context of her wish.
[X] Cover what you believe about the (mal)function of Oriko's precognition, stemming from her traumas and background.
[X] Cover Kirika's wish, its results, what you said about it to Oriko in On A Rail 31, her reaction, and the implications involved in all of it.
[X] The house arrest is unhealthy and problematic, and you would like to set up some different arrangement if they (M, H, S) will accept it. That doesn't mean that O&K should just be free to do whatever they want or etcetera -- but you have some thoughts on alternatives, and if they (M, H, S) have any ideas you'd really like to hear them.
-[X] Change imprisonment location. Add electronic security to location.
-[X] Add mundane and magical tracking to O&K. Mami tracking ribbon and house arrest ankle tracker as concrete examples.
-[X] Scheduled outings with guard(s) -- prisoners get yard time, after all.
-[X] Bring up having a Sayaklone guard.
-[X] Continued community service.
-[X] Any anti-magic used on security measures, or other sort of break-out attempt, escalates our response and their punishment. Make this clear to O&K.
-[X] If proposal is insufficiently punishing, ask what would be sufficient.
[X] OOC meta-note: Take as much screen-time as needed to fully detail Sabrina's motives, position, and thoughts on the matter, even if it takes multiple updates or requires a time-skip to preserve proper story flow. We've repeatedly run into issues where Sabrina breezed through things that votes had intended to go over more fully, or had Sabrina act in ways counter to the intent of the vote, due to the "150 words of vague direction" limitation. I'm utterly ignoring that limitation here, because I think it would do vastly more harm than good to try to play wordgames instead of actually addressing the update.
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[X] Since we have limited resources and people to handle this, and imprisoning meguca is expensive and difficult, meguca justice has to be about preventing further harm, not punishment. We applied that principle in Sendai, and it worked well. Like with Sendai, we don't have to like it, but it has to work, and it has proven itself so far.
-[X] Emphasize to Sayaka the harm Sendai group caused over the years, and how light their "punishment" was. But the outcome was successful.
-[X] Explain to Sayaka that, as misguided and wrong as Oriko's actions were, they were done with the intention of saving Sayaka's life from a threat she didn't understand and couldn't figure out how to deal with. One that Sayaka should already know is real and dangerous--it nearly killed her just before she contracted, after all.
[X] To mollify Homura's concerns, propose making a robust Grief Lie Detector construct, and testing it yourselves. Propose using it to question Oriko and Kirika.
[X] O&K suffering real harm right now. Meguca more vulnerable to emotional harm than anyone. Accommodations must be made, for their health.
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[X] Proposal: exile the Kures to a desert island somewhere, maybe under a nondetection field.
-[X] Oriko seemed to think something would assassinate her if she didn't stay close to us, but maybe the nondetection field would prevent that.
[X] Proposal: send the Kures to Fukushima as prisoners.
[X] Proposal: gem the Kures, hold their soul gems, store them (maybe in hammerspace?) until after Walpurgisnacht.
-[X] Arguably this is their best chance of surviving the month.
[X] Proposal: Sayaka, would beating them up make you feel better? We don't really like violence, but if this would solve the problem...
[X] If none of this seems to work, back down and apologize.
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[x] Request timestop. Sayaka wants to decide when Oriko has been sufficiently punished? She gets to decide.
[x] Lay out every fact you have.
-[x] Explain the format of your metaknowledge: Pasts and futures that never happened and cannot happen, but that illustrate how people behave.
--[x] Take care to communicate to Homura that you are not discussing her loops. Not every alternate past or future is about her.
-[x] Oriko's history. The possible alternate Orikos and their stories.
--[x] When you get to the part where Oriko killed Madoka, let Homura confirm that Madoka contracting would be game-over and refuse to explain further.
-[x] All of your hypotheses about Oriko's psychology, how she was trying to commit honorable suicide, and how you're pretty sure the house arrest was the best her power could find for that after you captured her.
-[x] The hole you've dug for yourself by not letting Homura execute her on the spot, why you need to resolve this before it tears the Mitakihara group apart and ruins everything.
-[x] All of the possible courses of action you have for dealing with Oriko and mitigating this catastrophe. Exile, relocation, chaperones, whatever.
[x] Leave nothing out. If it takes six hours, if Firnagzen has to write the quest's first material timeskip, so be it, we have timestop and we've fucked this up too often by trying to be open and honest while shouting through a 150-word-long garden hose.
[x] So, Sayaka. What do you want to do?
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[X] Tone: Weary. Tired of fighting over this, and getting nowhere, over and over.
[X] Walpurgisnacht is coming. There is a very real chance some of us will get hurt or die defending the city. Are Sayaka and Homura willing to let O&K help?
[X] If so, then we'll owe them something for it, more than just locking them out of sight and throwing away the key.
[X] But until that time, you're done talking about this. And sorry for bringing it up in the first place.
[X] Ask Sayaka, as a personal favour, to give some thought to what she wants from Oriko. Actual thought and deliberation, and not a snap judgement made in anger. She might not see it, but this is for her own sake as well.
[X] Thank them for listening to you. An additional, smaller thanks to Homura via telepathy.
[X] Lean on Mami and rest. It's been a long day.
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[X] Mami:
-[X] Ask if she could track O&K like she did Anri. Homura or Sayaka could hold the other end?
[X] Homura:
-[X] Ask to talk privately.
-[X] Take a moment.
-[X] I understand I'm pushing but how much? I can't help but think that if we go around detaining people indefinitely without at least a coherent policy on when do so, we're just as bad as any of the more exploitive magical girl groups out there. Is the line Arson? Assault? Things the media would call an act of terrorism? How much does intent matter?
-[X] Talk about Oriko?
--[X] Is there a middle ground between indefinite detention/execution and full liberty you can tolerate? Take her answer into account as much as possible.
--[X] Ask if there's anything you can do, to help Homura trust you with this.
---[X] Tracking measures? If Homura could know where O&K are all the time?
---[X] Explain your views of Oriko? At length?
--[X] Mention the problems with the house arrest. Psychological harm, long term viabilty, death by stir-crazyness induce gem blackening and subsequent cleanup not fitting the crime...
--[X] Apologize for needing to put her through this.
--[X] Ask her to consider it.
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[X] abstain
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