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Pet Peeves in Fanfiction

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Yeangst said:
I'm not personally interested in the 'coffeeshop AU' thing, though I could imagine it being interesting for if:
1. It turns out running a small business is really hard. The story is like The Bear where there's a ton of stress that makes characters have breakdowns and strains their relationships with each other
2. Keep the cozy feel, but really nerd out about premodern coffee making and logistics chains. not just a handwave and be like this magitech contraption is the equivalent of a modern espresso machine. Or maybe do have magitech espresso machine, but get into more detail about who invented it, how it works, how to repair it, etc. Change the vibe up so it's not like a starbucks, but maybe like a 18th century French salon or Ottoman coffeehouse.
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Those would be interesting literal interpretations of the idea, but I think the real purpose of most "Coffeehouse AUs" is as an excuse for the authors to write fluffier stories about characters they like in a setting more familiar to them.

On that note, I am not a big fan of Modern/Nonmagical AUs, especially based on works that rely heavily on fantasy elements. I know those stories hold value to a lot of people, but I think it's often a wasted opportunity.
 
If I see one more magicless Buffy fanfic it'll have been too soon.
 
I would be far more interested in the idea of the "coffee house" fluffier setting for characters, if they just went a little bit farther. They are basically making a sitcom/slice of life manga. Do a crossover with one of those or even a fusion with the setting if you don't want the extra characters.
 
Limabot said:
On that note, I am not a big fan of Modern/Nonmagical AUs, especially based on works that rely heavily on fantasy elements. I know those stories hold value to a lot of people, but I think it's often a wasted opportunity.
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Yeah, I'm largely in agreement with you on that. There are exceptions, of course, but a lot of the time it feels to me like they're removing what made these characters and their relationships interesting to begin with.
 
Coming at it from the other direction, there's also the Slow Life Isekai stories where the MC is dumped into a new world... and starts a coffee shop.
I don't have any problem with the idea in principle, and I have no problem with characters having a job, but if you were granted the chance to have anything you wanted, would you really choose retail?

Because that happens sometimes.
They don't just settle on it because it's available.
They have a god or a system offering them any kind of life they want, and they choose running a shop.
Which they then do badly.

Generally they have lots of advantages covering up their failures, and they don't need the money, but it still feels weird to have them insist on starting a coffee shop, then refuse to hire help, then refuse to open consistently, then go charging off towards the plot for months at a time.

Really it comes down to a very superficial attitude towards owning a business.

"Hmm, hanging out in a coffee shop is fun. If I owned one, then I'd be doing that all the time! And if I lived there, then I'd be living in a coffee shop! With random strangers walking into my living room and demanding coffee!"

"Wait, what was that last part?"
 
Blaflaix said:
Coming at it from the other direction, there's also the Slow Life Isekai stories where the MC is dumped into a new world... and starts a coffee shop.
I don't have any problem with the idea in principle, and I have no problem with characters having a job, but if you were granted the chance to have anything you wanted, would you really choose retail?

Because that happens sometimes.
They don't just settle on it because it's available.
They have a god or a system offering them any kind of life they want, and they choose running a shop.
Which they then do badly.

Generally they have lots of advantages covering up their failures, and they don't need the money, but it still feels weird to have them insist on starting a coffee shop, then refuse to hire help, then refuse to open consistently, then go charging off towards the plot for months at a time.

Really it comes down to a very superficial attitude towards owning a business.

"Hmm, hanging out in a coffee shop is fun. If I owned one, then I'd be doing that all the time! And if I lived there, then I'd be living in a coffee shop! With random strangers walking into my living room and demanding coffee!"

"Wait, what was that last part?"
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... I'm feeling called out, despite having (almost) never actually written that SI story.

Okay, I had a single one shot of my fursona for a SV valentines event, but at least I try and come up with interesting retail experiences. Like being a transformation shop instead of a coffee shop.

That said, it sounds like the real problem here might be people who want to have "runs a shop" on their character sheet but still want to be critical to the main plot. Which is missing the point of a shop story in my opinion. The point of a shop story is either that you have a unique viewpoint for all the weird shit that goes down in the main plot, without actually needing to be a main combatant in said main plot, or that you are dealing with the alternate situation of owning a shop.

... huh, there might be a lot of reasons why despite being very tempted to find a way to write one of these, I don't think I've actually read very many that were worthwhile.
 
There's nothing wrong with having the protagonist be a shop owner.
Story just needs to understand that.

Like, one of my old favorite tv shows, Lovejoy.
The main hcaracter is an antique dealer, and the story is generally about antiques, or chains of deals.
Or crimes that the titular Lovejoy gets involved in (usually, but not necessarily, involving antiques).

Problem comes when the protagonist is a merchant, but it is more of an informed attribute and story seems to treat it as a hobby to be done on the side when convenient, and to be dropped when not, at which point, why bother.

I have read a few stories that started out as being about merchant in a fantasy world, generally they are utterly uninterested about the store and become generic power fantasies very quickly.
 
Blaflaix said:
"Hmm, hanging out in a coffee shop is fun. If I owned one, then I'd be doing that all the time! And if I lived there, then I'd be living in a coffee shop! With random strangers walking into my living room and demanding coffee!"
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"... And me being able to tell anyone who behaves like that to fuck right off. "

There are people on this Earth right now who not only chose to work as baristas off their own free will but some of them even stay in this job for years and then choose to open a shop of their own, after having undergone all that experience.
 
E.I.G. said:
That said, it sounds like the real problem here might be people who want to have "runs a shop" on their character sheet but still want to be critical to the main plot. Which is missing the point of a shop story in my opinion. The point of a shop story is either that you have a unique viewpoint for all the weird shit that goes down in the main plot, without actually needing to be a main combatant in said main plot, or that you are dealing with the alternate situation of owning a shop.
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Third option: you're the wise mentor character, dropping semi-cryptic advice on the characters. In which case, you're probably looking at a sort of fix-it/therapy hybrid-fic, where the consequences of your actions are largely presented as Noodle Incidents
 
Valmond said:
I have read a few stories that started out as being about merchant in a fantasy world, generally they are utterly uninterested about the store and become generic power fantasies very quickly.
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Said fantasy merchants conveniently sidestep all the problems of actually doing business. They never miss their market predictions, never sell at a loss, don't pay for storage, have no need for advertising, don't worry about their stuff going unsold/spoiled/stolen. Things rarely get more complex than "buy cheap, sell high".

Hell, even video games are (usually) more "realistic" in those aspects. You usually have to put some effort to actually make a profit, read the market properly, invest a lot of (ingame) time, possible get involved in politics... and you can still get screwed over by rng. At very least, they make it clear that being a merchant is a serious job, not some random chore you can do in a weekend while still making a fortune.
 
KaPe said:
Said fantasy merchants conveniently sidestep all the problems of actually doing business. They never miss their market predictions, never sell at a loss, don't pay for storage, have no need for advertising, don't worry about their stuff going unsold/spoiled/stolen. Things rarely get more complex than "buy cheap, sell high".

Hell, even video games are (usually) more "realistic" in those aspects. You usually have to put some effort to actually make a profit, read the market properly, invest a lot of (ingame) time, possible get involved in politics... and you can still get screwed over by rng. At very least, they make it clear that being a merchant is a serious job, not some random chore you can do in a weekend while still making a fortune.
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It's worth noting that being a merchant in a pre industrial society was even harder than today. As trade routes and getting supplies was aredrous and you could get ganked by pirates/bandits.

A show about slowly becoming a merchant prince in a fantasy world dealing with market crashes, drought, war breaking out in your suppliers could be really interesting.

Most Iskakai protagonists has a cheat power making producing stuff pretty easy but they still have to get a licensee
 
Blaflaix said:
Not only do they not need advertising, they often actively conceal themselves.
Can't let people know you have good stuff, they might actually want you to sell it!
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That's not necessarily a bad take, assuming the merchant in question is of the "mysterious store you could have sworn was not there previously, and now can't find again to return this cursed mcguffin you bought" variety.

KaPe said:
Things rarely get more complex than "buy cheap, sell high".
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Sometimes they skip both of those steps as well.
And instead go for "get for free (possibly by killing monsters in a dungeon), and undercut every other merchant with unsustainably low (for anyone who has actual bills to pay) prices".
 
Valmond said:
That's not necessarily a bad take, assuming the merchant in question is of the "mysterious store you could have sworn was not there previously, and now can't find again to return this cursed mcguffin you bought" variety.
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Unfortunately that isn't the way it goes.

Here's the story model I've seen several times.
1) Poor MC is driven to some extreme situation due to debt
2) They discover a shop/farm/crafting/mine that can solve their problems! With minimal effort!
3) They get some High Quality goods, and immediately decide that nobody can know of it because people might do something. They can't do anything because the source is magically bound to the MC, but they might try to do something and that would be annoying.
4) They hold back everything but the lowest garbage resources, which they sell at a minor profit that barely keeps them afloat, and they use magic powers to conceal the source. Not cunning, or planning, or personal ability. Powers granted from the source that appears when they decide they want to stay secret.
5) They complain about being poor and in debt.
6) Someone does absolutely ridiculous shenanigans to discover the MC. Not anything like a Quest, just randomly grabbing something that nobody would ever care about and performing magic CSI to track them down.
7) They discover the MC, get slightly more than garbage resources, then get sworn to secrecy.
8) Repeat steps 5-7 for the rest of the story.

It's annoying because the central premise (Secret Resource Farmer) is directly in conflict with any engaging with anything. Characters, plot, the world...
And the magic resource generator will enable them endlessly, so they just end up hiding in a hole wanking over their collection.
Then the author realizes that they don't have anything to write about, and they have to jump through endless hoops to justify forcing the MC to interact with something, but they still want to be Secret...

And the story is still completely about the MC, none of the "visitors" can contribute anything meaningful because only the MC can do stuff.
Unless they are a Love Interest, in which case they stand around looking pretty and never actually advance the relationship.
 
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Blaflaix said:
Unfortunately that isn't the way it goes.

Here's the story model I've seen several times.
1) Poor MC is driven to some extreme situation due to debt
2) They discover a shop/farm/crafting/mine that can solve their problems! With minimal effort!
3) They get some High Quality goods, and immediately decide that nobody can know of it because people might do something. They can't do anything because the source is magically bound to the MC, but they might try to do something and that would be annoying.
4) They hold back everything but the lowest garbage resources, which they sell at a minor profit that barely keeps them afloat, and they use magic powers to conceal the source. Not cunning, or planning, or personal ability. Powers granted from the source that appears when they decide they want to stay secret.
5) They complain about being poor and in debt.
6) Someone does absolutely ridiculous shenanigans to discover the MC. Not anything like a Quest, just randomly grabbing something that nobody would ever care about and performing magic CSI to track them down.
7) They discover the MC, get slightly more than garbage resources, then get sworn to secrecy.
8) Repeat steps 5-7 for the rest of the story.

It's annoying because the central premise (Secret Resource Farmer) is directly in conflict with any engaging with anything. Characters, plot, the world...
And the magic resource generator will enable them endlessly, so they just end up hiding in a hole wanking over their collection.
Then the author realizes that they don't have anything to write about, and they have to jump through endless hoops to justify forcing the MC to interact with something, but they still want to be Secret...

And the story is still completely about the MC, none of the "visitors" can contribute anything meaningful because only the MC can do stuff.
Unless they are a Love Interest, in which case they stand around looking pretty and never actually advance the relationship.
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Oh yes, it is pretty much always handled terribly.
But the idea of a merchant who actively avoids notice and picks their customers, instead of other way around, is solid in itself.
Or would be, if done by a semi competent writer who was actually engaging with it, instead of slapping "merchant" title on a character who is almost anything but.
 
I've noticed that there is a number of writers that write what I call "fallout 3 ending*" moments in their story where I think that they wanted to have some big moment that shows how morally upstanding the protagonist is and tunnel vision it in at the expense of any practical means that could solve the problem without that level personal expense in addition to keeping to their morals.

in f3 before the dlc you have the choice of following your father's example and sacrificing yourself via radiation poisoning to purify a river so that everyone can have clean drinking water or sending in your human BOS buddy to do it instead.
But earlier in the story you gain super mutant companion who had previously helped you get a quest item in area with too many rads for a human to survive and he grabs it for you no problem, but he refuses because, apparently, it's your destiny to die in a situation where everyone could have survived.
Then there's the optional ghoul companion who's literally brainwashed to obey whatever his contract holder (you) tells him to, and he just doesn't because he doesn't feel like it.
If you do have the dlc and send in a rad-proof companion the ending narrator whines about how terrible a person you are for not following your father's example, despite there being no need to.
 
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Brain Spiders said:
I've noticed that there is a number of writers that write what I call "fallout 3 ending*" moments in their story where I think that they wanted to have some big moment that shows how morally upstanding the protagonist is and tunnel vision it in at the expense of any practical means that could solve the problem without the level personal expense in addition to keeping to their morals.

in f3 before the dlc you have the choice of following your father's example and sacrificing yourself via radiation poisoning to purify a river so that everyone can have clean drinking water or sending in your human BOS buddy to do it instead.
But earlier in the story you gain super mutant companion who had previously helped you get a quest item in area with too many rads for a human to survive and he grabs it for you no problem, but he refuses because, apparently, it's your destiny to die in a situation where everyone could have survived.
Then there's the optional ghoul companion who's literally brainwashed to obey whatever his contract holder (you) tells him to, and he just doesn't because he doesn't feel like it.
If you do have the dlc and send in a rad-proof companion the ending narrator whines about how terrible a person you are for not following your father's example, despite there being no need to.
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The Fallout 3 example is especially galling, because it would have been fairly easy for them to tack on a section that removes your other companions from the scenario: e.g. if they are with you, then they head outside to secure the area after the big fight you just had, and chime in over radio instead of in-person. Add a time-limit to make the choice, and you've got "unfortunately, there are only 2 options available" rather than "there are 3 options, and one of them is by and far the best, but if you select it we're just going to say 'nope, pick again'."
 
"Wow this looks like an interesting premise'

"Wow, the grammer and spelling is awful"

"Wow song lyrics in the first chapter"

"Author's notes scattered throughout the page"

*Closes tab*
 
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Waxing poetic over mundane things. Like writing a soliloquy on how deep and meaningful chess is. It's a solved game with a finite state space that at a high level involves mostly pattern recognition. It's not some soulful revelatory tool of insight.

Or going full emo monologue over taking a test, like it's some kind of seminal pivoting point for the narrative when in reality it influences nothing and never comes up again.

Some of it is about establishing character perspective but damn, did you have to spend all that effort on a piece of toast?
 
Yes, I must spend hundreds of words in ever increasing shades of purple to establish that the toast was that damn good. :V
 
Chess actually isn't solved! And it likely won't be solved for a while, if ever. Its state-space is finite, but it's stupidly huge, and so its game-tree complexity is ridiculously high. Top chess engines can outplay top humans, but they still don't have perfect play; it's based on finite-depth searches and heuristics to analyze boardstates. (Of course, some positions are solved as being a draw e.g. just two kings, or as a mate-in-X for a side.) Probably doesn't affect your point, but it's neat I think.

I've found chess an insightful tool, personally; just, uh, the insight is that I tunnel vision way too hard on what I want to do and don't sufficiently catch on to what my opponent could do to interrupt that. I'm really bad at chess.
 
Yeah the backlash to chess being a useful tool for training the basics of tactical thinking is honestly just as annoying as the initial overzealous CHESS LE AWESOME trend, which I suppose will count for my peeve, when backlash to a trope or narrative trend reaches the same hieght as the thing its criticizing.
 
yrsillar said:
Yeah the backlash to chess being a useful tool for training the basics of tactical thinking is honestly just as annoying as the initial overzealous CHESS LE AWESOME trend, which I suppose will count for my peeve, when backlash to a trope or narrative trend reaches the same hieght as the thing its criticizing.
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Katanas. Oh god the katana discourse.

There was a point a couple years back where any mention of a katana in fiction would have a bunch of assholes storming in the comments to explain how it was a shit sword used only by idiots and akshually Japanese smiths were dumb and inferior compared to glorious European tempered steel.

Like, yeah it was a reaction to the previous "glorious nippon steel folded a thousand times" thing, but honestly the counter-katana backlash felt worse because I feel like there was also a decent dose of racism mixed in.
 
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