Carrnage
Human
- Location
- New Zealand
Spirit channel march.
Paths of Civilization
- Thread starter Academia Nut
- Start date
- Original
ExNihilo
SPACE!
- Location
- USA
- Pronouns
- He/Him
They're great names, but we have enough. I want something fancy, like our banners. Shieldwall or RaidersBane or something.
Faction Overview: Urban Poor
Faction Ability
+1 Max Legitimacy every 3 full power. The Urban Poor have by far the most useful ability of all the Faction, allowing us to more easily stay at high stability/legitimacy, more easily get Golden Ages, and actually see the effects of Stability and Legitimacy above 3.
Dangerous Actions
{S} EP - Block Housing: -3 Econ, -3(+1) Tech, True City Gets Bigger*
{S} EP - Aqueduct: -3 Econ, -3(+1) Tech, New True City Candidate*
*Any time we add a new City or a new City Level, we need to build a bunch of health infrastructure to make sure it isn't a cesspit. Furthermore, runaway urbanization exposes us to new crises, and extra cities means our Factions have more places to put their pet projects, which can mean a resource drain we would rather have not had.
Expensive Actions
DEVELOP INTRIGUE WEB: -6 Wealth, -3 Diplo, +2 Intrigue
{S} EP - BATH: -6 Wealth, -4(+1) Tech, 1 sustainable forest used, +1 LTE, Improved Disease Resistance
Wonderful Actions
BUILD THEATRE: -1 Econ, -4 Wealth, -1 Culture, +4 Culture end of turn, +2 Culture next turn, other effects
BUILD WALL: -4 Econ, +1 Massive Walls
IMPROVE ANNUAL FESTIVAL: -2 Econ, -4 Wealth, +1 Stability, +4 Culture, chance for additional effects
{S} EP - COLOSSAL WALLS: -3 Econ, -1 Martial, City Protected
Summary
The Urban Poor have a great Faction Power, but even their best actions are pretty lackluster - while their worst actions rush us headlong into rapid urbanization.
Faction Ability
+1 Max Legitimacy every 3 full power. The Urban Poor have by far the most useful ability of all the Faction, allowing us to more easily stay at high stability/legitimacy, more easily get Golden Ages, and actually see the effects of Stability and Legitimacy above 3.
Dangerous Actions
{S} EP - Block Housing: -3 Econ, -3(+1) Tech, True City Gets Bigger*
{S} EP - Aqueduct: -3 Econ, -3(+1) Tech, New True City Candidate*
*Any time we add a new City or a new City Level, we need to build a bunch of health infrastructure to make sure it isn't a cesspit. Furthermore, runaway urbanization exposes us to new crises, and extra cities means our Factions have more places to put their pet projects, which can mean a resource drain we would rather have not had.
Expensive Actions
DEVELOP INTRIGUE WEB: -6 Wealth, -3 Diplo, +2 Intrigue
{S} EP - BATH: -6 Wealth, -4(+1) Tech, 1 sustainable forest used, +1 LTE, Improved Disease Resistance
Wonderful Actions
BUILD THEATRE: -1 Econ, -4 Wealth, -1 Culture, +4 Culture end of turn, +2 Culture next turn, other effects
BUILD WALL: -4 Econ, +1 Massive Walls
IMPROVE ANNUAL FESTIVAL: -2 Econ, -4 Wealth, +1 Stability, +4 Culture, chance for additional effects
{S} EP - COLOSSAL WALLS: -3 Econ, -1 Martial, City Protected
Summary
The Urban Poor have a great Faction Power, but even their best actions are pretty lackluster - while their worst actions rush us headlong into rapid urbanization.
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- Location
- Huezil
That's the best honor we can give them.
- Location
- his hidden lair
So, I think by this point we can all agree that war with the HK is something of an inevitability. But how decisive are we willing to go with this? Mass Levy rooting them out of their homes and outright conquest? Pushing them back and throwing some Terrifies at them to try and get them to bend the knee?
Because as tempted as I am to say going all in and finally putting the screws to them is worth it... if we've seized all their holdings outside the hills/rough terrain and then proceeded to consolidate our hold on the Lowlands like we're intending, it might be worth not completely trying to ruin their parade in favor of consolidating our gains in the Lowlands more rapidly.
Simply put, how much do we honestly think a turn of Mass Levy will cost us in terms of opportunity elsewhere? I'm not even going to pretend I have a good enough grasp on the numbers by that point to say anything with certainty.
Because as tempted as I am to say going all in and finally putting the screws to them is worth it... if we've seized all their holdings outside the hills/rough terrain and then proceeded to consolidate our hold on the Lowlands like we're intending, it might be worth not completely trying to ruin their parade in favor of consolidating our gains in the Lowlands more rapidly.
Simply put, how much do we honestly think a turn of Mass Levy will cost us in terms of opportunity elsewhere? I'm not even going to pretend I have a good enough grasp on the numbers by that point to say anything with certainty.
- Location
- Toronto, Ontario(occasionally)
I honestly don't know, but we at minimum need to take some territory this time, so they no longer hold that critical pass into turkey, and we can plop down a March to watch whatever's left on the land we took from them.
Also it seems like they think they can win, maybe it'd be a good idea to learn why.
- Pronouns
- They/Them
Intrigue mission? Maybe if we get an intrigue-specced king...
DocMatoi
Theoretical Lover of Girls
- Location
- within 2 hours of the White House
- Pronouns
- They/Them
current running theory is religious fervor, but we don't know for sure yet
- Location
- Voidbetweenstars
Small nations beating larger ones is not unheard of.
- Location
- Australia
Conquest is a bad idea. We're at 21 roads and already capped on cent tolerance increases until we evolve our government. We are way too overextended and taking over a hostile population who doesn't like you will play havoc with our administration. It'll also force us to be repressive if we want to keep control of the area, turning us into assholes.
- Location
- Voidbetweenstars
All I am hearing is that accidently purging the entire place and leaving a desolate wasteland is in order?/s
Jokes aside we truly cant afford anything other then a ending were we don't get more land to rule.
And vassalage will most like end... badly.
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As of this midturn, our econ expenditure per turn should be:
3 Level 1 True Cities (6) [Valleyhome, Blackmouth, Sacred Forest]
2 Level 1 Free Cities (2) [Valleyguard, Redhills]
1 Level 3 Free City (3) [Redshore]
2 City Support Policies (-8)
Total (3).
By next midturn, our econ expenditure per turn should be:
2-3 Level 1 True Cities (4-6) [Valleyhome, Stallionpen, Lower Valleyhome]
3 Level 1 Free Cities (3) [Valleyguard, Redhills, Sacred Forest]
1 Level 2 Free City (2) [Blackmouth]
1 Level 3 Free City (3) [Redshore]
2 City Support Policies (-10)
Total (2-4).
So the mass levy should be relatively sustainable so long as we enter it with high econ.
3 Level 1 True Cities (6) [Valleyhome, Blackmouth, Sacred Forest]
2 Level 1 Free Cities (2) [Valleyguard, Redhills]
1 Level 3 Free City (3) [Redshore]
2 City Support Policies (-8)
Total (3).
By next midturn, our econ expenditure per turn should be:
2-3 Level 1 True Cities (4-6) [Valleyhome, Stallionpen, Lower Valleyhome]
3 Level 1 Free Cities (3) [Valleyguard, Redhills, Sacred Forest]
1 Level 2 Free City (2) [Blackmouth]
1 Level 3 Free City (3) [Redshore]
2 City Support Policies (-10)
Total (2-4).
So the mass levy should be relatively sustainable so long as we enter it with high econ.
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- Location
- his hidden lair
That and I'm pretty sure the sheer scope of Mass Levy is something that has to be seen to be believed. We've fielded a force of nearly 80,000 centuries ago, the thought that the Ymaryn who don't have some large standing military besides the obvious Companies suddenly fielding hundreds of thousands? This is potentially far beyond the scope the Highlanders are capable of realizing.
We're going to have to push them out of anything besides their hills as is- anything less is practically congratulating them. Is absorbing another province or two and dealing with the strain so much worse than simply letting them fuck with us yet again?
But can we really afford to let the HK go yet again? How many times have they pulled this shit? How many more times would it happen if we don't bring them to heel one way or another?
We're going to have to push them out of anything besides their hills as is- anything less is practically congratulating them. Is absorbing another province or two and dealing with the strain so much worse than simply letting them fuck with us yet again?
- Location
- United States
I honestly don't think we need Mass Levy to push them out of the Lowlands.
We have light cav of 5, which will work really well in the open Lowlands, as seen with the Pure Nomads.
We have our 3 merc companies, who are all elite units that can go toe to toe with the best of them.
We will have the help of our Lowlands Vassals, as well as likely the Hamurri.
Pushing them back into their Core before they've had the chance to completely consolidate, and maybe even after, should be possible without Mass Levy.
Mass Levy would definitely be needed if we wanted to assault their Core, but for now we should just punt them back and give the rest of the Lowlands to Txolla.
Wiadi
Uncompromising Radical Leftist
- Location
- Something Clever
- Pronouns
- She/Her
It does also block Wealth-generating actions, which with increased costs will lock us out of almost all Wealth-spending actions for the duration too.
They are pulling this shit because the priests upslurp the King's authority and because they were too isolated for so long. We made the strategic mistake of not inviting the Highlanders to The Games all those years ago and not bothering to send trade missions to ensure that they stay connected to the outside world.
The Banner companies would had solved the massive issue if it weren't for the superplague.
- Location
- Voidbetweenstars
No their pulling this bullshit because we spread our religion to them at the start of the plague.
which then changed to fit their culture because our religion fractures easily.
Personally if we let them alone instead of 'helping' them (or kill them) we be fine.
keenscythe
No longer NEET
- Location
- WA, USA
Regarding the difficulty of, (what is the word? Digesting?) Digesting the Highlander Core: They have been stuck in a little tiny space for a very long time, they have most likely built up as tall as they could. Getting them up to the Ymaryn Standard should be cheaper than normal.
1) We will likely expel the Highlanders from their lowland territory, and hopefully the pass, so there's no revolt issues to deal with.
2) We will probably let Txolla have the fun of administrating the new land. They like being big.
- Pronouns
- They/Them
Personally I'm in favor of founding a new March in the HK's lowlands territory, to keep the HK bottled up nice and tight. If we ever normalize our diplomatic relations again they could be transitioned to a colony.
- Location
- United States
The problem would be less with building them up, and more with integrating an extremely Xenophobic group of people who were insular for hundreds of years and likely hate the Ymaryn and everyone around them.
We would have to send a bunch of Influences towards them, and they would fight it the whole way.
We frankly do not have the time or resources to properly deal with them, and if we ate them they would just fester until they could break away at an inopportune moment.
True, but we currently have a net positive wealth income. Net negative wealth/econ incomes give us a hard timer for how long we can afford to be under the mass levy policy or risk destruction. Whereas net positive wealth/econ incomes limit the number of opportunities that we can pursue while under said policy.
Considering that a mass levy policy is probably only going to be use if we are heavily committed to a war, and that we get our wealth and econ scores added to our temp martial score*, we probably would be throwing most of our actions at the war/raising stability rather than anything that would cost noticeable amounts of econ or wealth even if they weren't locked by the policy.
*For reference, a main raise army would cost 3 econ and 10 wealth, and would generate 9 martial. Which would be a 4 point decrease to our effective martial score under a mass levy.
- Location
- Voidbetweenstars
Wiadi
Uncompromising Radical Leftist
- Location
- Something Clever
- Pronouns
- She/Her
True, but things like Warships and Sacred Orders are also potentially relevant to a war effort, and those are extremely Wealth-expensive. So if we want to go Mass Levy we should at minimum try and make sure Navy/Cavalry/etc. are as high as we'll want them for the war first.