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Paths of Civilization

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Manget said:
my point is if we need too, one or two distributing lands when we road blitzing is ok. as over centralization is super bad. we just need to keep it on the table.
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Unless PSN never trigger during the initial phase of the roadbuilding project, we shouldn't ever need to use Distribute Land.

And it will take only two turns to simply start banking centralization tolerance, which is a small window for us to start screwing up. The only issue where this becomes a problem is when we're getting too many True Cities at once.
 
Kiba said:
Unless PSN never trigger during the initial phase of the roadbuilding project, we shouldn't ever need to use Distribute Land.

And it will take only two turns to simply start banking centralization tolerance, which is a small window for us to start screwing up. The only issue where this becomes a problem is when we're getting too many True Cities at once.
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we are talking about the road blitz plan, this is 4 centralization every turn. i can see us needing to Distribute Land or go 5 free cites. i do not want anyone to vote against the road blitz plan just to avoid Distribute Land, as it is not as bad as some people think.
 
notgreat said:
Right, well then, Megaproject Support is looking more and more reasonable to me. We can double the dam's cost and make it super useful, a wonder-tier megaproject. Here's hoping we don't need to go to war next turn!
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If we can afford it. For example, AN mentioned Mills, those cost Wealth.
We will see what we can and cannot afford. Guild Panic is determined at midturn, not "whether we touched it via ordering", so taking wealth-producers as guild actions can balance it out.
 
Carrnage said:
We also need gymnasiums for the middle class and theatres for the lower class.
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The Yeomen don't know they want it. The Urban Poor are more concerned with being clean.
Manget said:
we are talking about the road blitz plan, this is 4 centralization every turn. i can see us needing to Distribute Land or go 5 free cites. i do not want anyone to vote against the road blitz plan just to avoid Distribute Land, as it is not as bad as some people think.
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Uh, no it won't. We'd cap out on Road Cent gain before it becomes a problem, considering how fast we PSN burn cent AND we already have a quest demanding lots of free cities.
 
Manget said:
we are talking about the road blitz plan, this is 4 centralization every turn. i can see us needing to Distribute Land or go 5 free cites. i do not want anyone to vote against the road blitz plan just to avoid Distribute Land, as it is not as bad as some people think.
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If we make Blackmouth a FC and reduce our centralization to 3, we will be fine. The final result will be 11 centralization and 13 centralization tolerance. 2 centralization tolerance margin.

More if PSN triggers during two turn we're blitzing past 28. What might screw us is the need to use EJ, but we should be fine if we can use IF or PG istead.
 
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Manget said:
we are talking about the road blitz plan, this is 4 centralization every turn. i can see us needing to Distribute Land or go 5 free cites. i do not want anyone to vote against the road blitz plan just to avoid Distribute Land, as it is not as bad as some people think.
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Roads stop giving cent once we get over 50%, but continue to increase the cap.
 
> Academies add Religious Authority tolerance
> we desperately need to outdebate our southern neighbour if we want to protect our religion

Well, Academies has just risen to the near-top of priorities.
 
One more thing: if we went past 28 connectivity, we probably won't gain any more centralization. Instead of 13, we will be 12 at. Thus, we should be safe during our roadbuilding blitz to get to our centralization limit. But we need to make sure we have at least 6 econ in our gas tank and we need to watch our tech spending carefully.

If we're doing it with MP support, we're going to be spending 12 econ in any given turn.

ctulhuslp said:
> Academies add Religious Authority tolerance
> we desperately need to outdebate our southern neighbour if we want to protect our religion

Well, Academies has just risen to the near-top of priorities.
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I am afraid we're going to be squeezed for action here, between temples, governor palaces, libraries, baths, aqueducts, colossal walls, and annexes. Our passive policies probably aren't going to cut it anymore, not unless we want to sacrifice very necessary policies such as skullduggery and diplomacy.
 
Kiba said:
I am afraid we're going to be squeezed for action here, between temples, governor palaces, libraries, baths, aqueducts, colossal walls, and annexes. Our passive policies probably aren't going to cut it anymore, not unless we want to sacrifice very necessary policies such as skullduggery and diplomacy.
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Well yes, but since our religion is noted as being especially vulnerable to being used as fodder for next generation and next generation is so far very xenophobic, Academies+Temples are very high priority.
And Academy is only 1 action, so we do not need passives to do those.
 
ctulhuslp said:
Well yes, but since our religion is noted as being especially vulnerable to being used as fodder for next generation and next generation is so far very xenophobic, Academies+Temples are very high priority.
And Academy is only 1 action, so we do not need passives to do those.
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The One True God that resided in the Ymaryn is far more likely to spread than the xenophobic religion espoused by the Highlanders. Really, attack by the Highlanders aren't likely to endear themselves to anybody, unless they are strong enough to force conversion at the point of swords.
 
Kiba said:
The One True God that resided in the Ymaryn is far more likely to spread than the xenophobic religion espoused by the Highlanders. Really, attack by the Highlanders aren't likely to endear themselves to anybody, unless they are strong enough to force conversion at the point of swords.
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Nah, our theological skills are likely to spread, not our religion itself.
Which means that people take in part of the benefits of PK - better debating skills and logic - without paying the cost. Meaning every two-bit xenophobe is going to be using advanced theology to fuel his biases and agenda.

Our religion would be more 'in control' if it was orthodox-type; instead, it's Syncretic - meaning that instead of converting locals to our ideals, locals convert tools of religion to suit their ideals, maybe adapting bits of religion that do not contradict their values too much in the process.
 
ctulhuslp said:
Nah, our theological skills are likely to spread, not our religion itself.
Which means that people take in part of the benefits of PK - better debating skills and logic - without paying the cost. Meaning every two-bit xenophobe is going to be using advanced theology to fuel his biases and agenda.

Our religion would be more 'in control' if it was orthodox-type; instead, it's Syncretic - meaning that instead of converting locals to our ideals, locals convert tools of religion to suit their ideals, maybe adapting bits of religion that do not contradict their values too much in the process.
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I was comparing the xenophobic religion espoused by the Highlanders and the religion espoused by the One God worshippers in Ymaryn land, and the latter is far more likely to spread than the Highlanders, since the Highlanders likely create the religion to protect their distinctness rather than for maximal viral spread, while the religion in Ymaryn land had to learn to adapt to the new conditions that the Ymaryn offered.

So that's why I am not too worried, though I agree that temples and academies are priorities.
 
ctulhuslp said:
Which means that people take in part of the benefits of PK - better debating skills and logic - without paying the cost. Meaning every two-bit xenophobe is going to be using advanced theology to fuel his biases and agenda.
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I'm sure the Trelli thought Currency and Mercenaries were a brilliant idea they got for free :D
And the Highlanders thought the Law was a sweetass concept to build their whole civilization around it.

The cost is that basically every twobit heresy out there is going to have the debate tools to poke holes in their leading doctrines, and without the large urban and academic institutions or the four thousand years of continuous recordkeeping, who wins is largely random!
ctulhuslp said:
Our religion would be more 'in control' if it was orthodox-type; instead, it's Syncretic - meaning that instead of converting locals to our ideals, locals convert tools of religion to suit their ideals, maybe adapting bits of religion that do not contradict their values too much in the process.
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Syncreticism was basically a given in first generation religions because it spreads like wildfire. Monotheism was a common second generation spawn because its very good at keeping internal consistency and avoiding doctrinal drift, but was less good at appealing to established local faiths.

Think in terms of the low centralization Western Confederacy government vs the high centralization kingdoms that arose after.
 
I wonder if building more observatories would make Study Stars automatic, or just make the results better. Or unlock an Astrology passive policy.
 
bluefur87 said:
Hmm...
Is that option actually useful enough to put an action towards it anymore?

Astrological predictions are nice and honestly the cost itself isn't much, but the cost of an action is rather annoying.
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There are progress towards mathematical innovations as well as optics and measurements. Just you know, talking to the King about the mystical significants of sine ratios gets you a blank stare. It's not relevant at our level.
 
veekie said:
There are progress towards mathematical innovations as well as optics and measurements. Just you know, talking to the King about the mystical significants of sine ratios gets you a blank stare. It's not relevant at our level.
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This depends on King: Uvothyn would probably result in priests giving him blank stares in such discussion.
 
Observing the stars would absolutely improve navigation. Very important for both trade and warfare. It could also lead to better time measurement and complax mathematics.
 
EWilanO said:
Observing the stars would absolutely improve navigation. Very important for both trade and warfare. It could also lead to better time measurement and complax mathematics.
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Study Stars don't give out new innovation anymore, just new astrological predictions which we must be careful to interpret. So, what exactly is going on here?

We might be making progress, in which case, as you said, will lead to improvement in navigation, mathematics, and timekeeping.

Or we might already be at the limit our ability, waiting for new scientific instruments or geometrical knowledge before we can progress further.
 
Kiba said:
Study Stars don't give out new innovation anymore, just new astrological predictions which we must be careful to interpret. So, what exactly is going on here?

We might be making progress, in which case, as you said, will lead to improvement in navigation, mathematics, and timekeeping.

Or we might already be at the limit our ability, waiting for new scientific instruments or geometrical knowledge before we can progress further.
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Mmmm...I think that observation records are going to be extremely useful in any case.
Besides, we do not even have calender yet. That's one reason for building Observatory somewhere focused on Sun and Moon, which would require Temple beforehand.
 
Kiba said:
Study Stars don't give out new innovation anymore, just new astrological predictions which we must be careful to interpret. So, what exactly is going on here?

We might be making progress, in which case, as you said, will lead to improvement in navigation, mathematics, and timekeeping.

Or we might already be at the limit our ability, waiting for new scientific instruments or geometrical knowledge before we can progress further.
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It seems possible that we're limited by our infrastructure, and that further innovations require more observatories that grant different perspectives. If so, I'd expect to be getting Priest Quests to build more at some point.
 
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