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Paths of Civilization

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Ghostdevil said:
NOOOO, PESSIMIST!
You will not bring me down!
We WILL stand the test of time!
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We can certainly, with preparation, make sure our culture stands the test of time. (at the very minimum, we need to make sure every settlement can feed itself locally)

The issue though, when you look at history, no organized states lasted forever. They always broke under enough stressers.

Our ecological management techniques definitely make us more resilient but looking at indigenous american societies before colonization where eco-management was fairly common, collapses still happened.

We're not going to be an exception but it'll be fun to lose (temporarily) and rebuild. :)
 
Citino said:
So, why exactly are people so eager to take the festival this turn? What exactly do we get from it that we won't get next turn when we have a nice solid Econ score?
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Festival is to counter the stability drop from taking in the Nomads, cause there's the very real possibility taking it as a main will give us +1 stability, meaning we wont finish the turn in the negatives. There's a small risk that we'll take an econ hit before the other actions kick in, which could lead to a stability hit, but it's a smaller risk than than just taking the nomads but not taking festival.
 
Citino said:
So, why exactly are people so eager to take the festival this turn? What exactly do we get from it that we won't get next turn when we have a nice solid Econ score?
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The great enemy died, some of their children are asking to join us, and northern settlement joined; a good time to celebrate our successes.

Our people should have fun every so often.
 
minerva-n-memes said:
We can certainly, with preparation, make sure our culture stands the test of time. (at the very minimum, we need to make sure every settlement can feed itself locally)

The issue though, when you look at history, no organized states lasted forever. They always broke under enough stressers.

Our ecological management techniques definitely make us more resilient but looking at indigenous american societies before colonization where eco-management was fairly common, collapses still happened.

We're not going to be an exception but it'll be fun to lose (temporarily) and rebuild. :)
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NO. Were different than the Native Americans, they were stuck far behind technologically than the ones who murdered them, we will Stand the Test of time NO MATTER WHAT :D
 
Ghostdevil said:
NO. Were different than the Native Americans, they were stuck far behind technologically than the ones who murdered them, we will Stand the Test of time NO MATTER WHAT :D
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We're definitely different, but I wouldn't say indigenous american societies were technologically backwards, they just went down different tech paths than in Eurasia.

The only reason why europeans were able to colonize the americas was because of disease, which caused a massive collapse in indigenous societies as eurasian diseases spread throughout their trade networks.

If it hadn't been for that, there would have been no way settler-colonialism would have happened in the Americas, because the populations would have dramatically outnumbered any would-be colonists.

anyhow, we should be very careful to avoid hybris
 
minerva-n-memes said:
I don't think our current civilization will stand the long test of time, all states are bound to collapse sooner or later.

I'm mainly pushing so we have enough infrastructure, logistics, techniques, culture, etc... that if we ever balkanize or get successfully taken over by another power, that one of the fragments will absorb the others/the invading force gets integrated into our societies and milieus and revitalizes our society rather than tearing it down.

I essentially want us to have the endurance and rebuilding process that China has had throughout history.
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While that is normally true I feel like a case could be made for our civilization never actually collapsing due to one major factor, that factor being that we are guiding it. Most other civilization's aren't enacting the will of people who know how civilizations advance, who know how and why civilization's fall and are actively working to prevent similar situations.
 
Potato and Chip said:
While that is normally true I feel like a case could be made for our civilization never actually collapsing due to one major factor, that factor being that we are guiding it. Most other civilization's aren't enacting the will of people who know how civilizations advance, who know how and why civilization's fall and are actively working to prevent similar situations.
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- looks back at previous disasters and failures in previous SV/SB quests -

Ah, yes, our current political entity will definitely last forever. :V
 
Despite the fact that I voted for it, I'm not certain that inviting these nomads into our civilization is worth the risk of the strife it will cause.
 
[X] If you behave yourselves, you may settle (strong chance of causing strife)

[X][Main] Step-Farms
[X][Secondary] Establish Annual Festival
[X][Secondary] New Settlement
 
*̖ͅvo̷̩̠̣̳̻̙m͚̦͔͉̻̪̲i͏͖t̞̤͉̲̫̩͓͘s̲̞͓̱ ̫̘̝́t̢a͠l͍͓̠̰̀ͅl̜͎y̞̰̰̗*̖͚

Vote Tally : Paths of Civilization | Page 267 | Sufficient Velocity
##### NetTally 1.7.10.1
[37] If you behave yourselves, you may settle (Strong chance of causing strife)
[6] Escort them to the lowlands, where they can be safe from their relatives but are on their own after
[5] You must live as half-exiles until you can demonstrate proper behaviour (Strong chance of being rejected)
[1] Step-Farms
——————————————————————————————————————————————Task: Main
[29][Main] Establish Annual Festival
[13][Main] New Settlement
[7][Main] Step-Farms
[6][Main] Expand Fishing
[1][Main] Expand Forests
——————————————————————————————————————————————Task: Secondary
[37][Secondary] Step-Farms
[29][Secondary] New Settlement
[18][Secondary] Expand Pasture
[16][Secondary] Expand Fishing
[5][Secondary] Expand Forests
[3][Secondary] Establish Annual Festival
[2][Secondary] Study Forests
[1][Secondary] New Settlement x2
Total No. of Voters: 56
 
Academia Nut said:
Through Inkarnate I present to you a crude and not to scale map of the rough relationships between significant settlements and rivers for the Three Peoples. I tried to get more of the other groups in, but the scaling didn't look right because again, everything is loosey-goosey. Improving the trails has massively cut down on travel times though, so its only about ten days between the upper valley village and the coastal village instead of a month. The river with the waterfall is not easily navigable.

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It's right here :ninja::ninja::ninja:
 
K so the vote is basically Invite; M Fest; Step; settle.

What should we vote next turn? P & F & ?
 
There's still the argument for Pastures instead of step-farms, since AN said Pastures has synergy with the nomads.
 
[X][Main] Step-Farms
[X][Secondary] Establish Annual Festival

Do it in this order pls?

We've done one step farms action, and know we have many more hills to shape before we prefect and incorporate the technology.

As a secondary action, it's not unreasonable to expect that we'll still have more to do, and have to invest a third action into it.

As a main action however, it's more likely that step farms be finished properly with this one turn.

Furthermore, as our economy is low from lack of food stores, and the festival is an action that explicitly focuses on the consumption of food, having the consumption of food take priority over the growth of our food stocks means our economy may actually decrease, or at least stay low, rather than grow back up to comfortable levels.

Please reconsider the priorities of these two actions. Especially with a new settlement likely being the third.
 
redzonejoe said:
[X][Main] Step-Farms
[X][Secondary] Establish Annual Festival

Do it in this order pls?

We've done one step farms action, and know we have many more hills to shape before we prefect and incorporate the technology.

As a secondary action, it's not unreasonable to expect that we'll still have more to do, and have to invest a third action into it.

As a main action however, it's more likely that step farms be finished properly with this one turn.

Furthermore, as our economy is low from lack of food stores, and the festival is an action that explicitly focuses on the consumption of food, having the consumption of food take priority over the growth of our food stocks means our economy may actually decrease, or at least stay low, rather than grow back up to comfortable levels.

Please reconsider the priorities of these two actions. Especially with a new settlement likely being the third.
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Seeing how 29 people have already voted for the festival as the main action, it seems unlikely that it would be switched around.
 
Ok look, I kinda skipped the past 10 pages or so. Just read the update, saw the bandwagon building, skipped to the end, saw the vote, wanted to address the thing I was worried about.

On that note, AN said there's a risk of going negative as is. So I'm not entirely unjustified here.

However, if arguments have been brought up that adequately address my concerns, I'll get around to reading them... eventually.

hylas240 said:
Seeing how 29 people have already voted for the festival as the main action, it seems unlikely that it would be switched around.
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it does with that attitude.
 
[X] You must live as half-exiles until you can demonstrate proper behaviour (Strong chance of being rejected)
[X][Main] Establish Annual Festival
[X][Secondary] Expand Pasture
[X][Secondary] Expand Fishing
 
hylas240 said:
There's still the argument for Pastures instead of step-farms, since AN said Pastures has synergy with the nomads.
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There are arguments on both sides.

For step farm
  • Finishing the step farm will integrate the practice into regular "expand farm" actions
  • Part of bring land under our management tendency
  • Relative low risk, nomads not required
  • More stable food production, add synergy with new settlement
For pasture
  • Nomad contributes their experience on beast handling
  • More beast for other heavy labor
  • More animal protein and calcium
 
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