I mean, I tend to count econ and wealth as being worth the same despite us being able to generate econ more cheaply, since econ overflows into wealth and it is really easy to make that happen. In light of that, the "net" cost is 1 art to produce 3 LTE, which seems on par with the black-soil major.
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Paths of Civilization
- Thread starter Academia Nut
- Start date
- Original
Godwinson
"Well, I've got nothing."
pblur
Reminiscing over the halcyon days of Ymaryn
- Location
- Lawrence's Wagon
Primal shadow was talking about 3 Main Build Mills.
Umi-san
Procrastinating.
- Location
- ꙮ
... true. We probably definitely will, I think, since we'll be unlikely to finish off the Xoh this turn.
If they're not finished off I will probably push for non-north-specific roads. Increased ease of travel/aid to the warfront will help make our secondary still have an impact.
Why? Restoration actions are looking pretty good right.
Abby Normal
High Clerk of the Ymaryn
- Pronouns
- He/Him
But we already have de facto tanistry, just among all de facto noble lines instead of just one, andonly making it harder for commoner heroes to be king instead of completely locking them out. How is locking out a bunch of possible hero sources in favor of deciding that 3 and a half heroes means the line will always have a good heir as an option supposed to be a good thing? I'm legitimately confused by your argument here
Ghostdevil
The Devil of Ghosts
- Location
- United States
- Location
- Australia
I'm not. Totally not saying that at all. The worst we've done is neglect the north, but the oligarchs have used that neglect as an opportunity to entrench power against the north. See here:
Not specifying means we choose the actions the Ymaryn will take will be to build roads, but it'll be "interpreted" by the people in-universe - not the players - so that what'll happen is that the north doesn't get roads. At least, that's the idea.
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After reading through the arguments, updating my vote to do Kick+Mill.
[X] [War] Withdraw main forces to defend Redhills, leave vassals and Red Banner
[X] [Boat] New design: Seaworthiness
[X] [Mill] Greater permission (-3 Wealth, -1 Art, -2 Centralization, +3 Econ, increased potential for innovation)
[X] [WC] Lesser assistance (-2 Art, -1 Centralization, Stallions pleased, ???)
-[X] [Main] Kick the Megaproject (Pay 1 Stability, gain another Main action)
[X] [Main] Main Build Mill
[X] [Refugee] They accepted all who came (Chance of stability loss, +2 Econ)
Guaranteed completion of the megaproject = bonus econ, +1 Stability.
Remember, every -1 Centralization that we don't spend is +1 Stability via Enforce Justice. We stay on Restoration, and we are actually in a pretty good position. With -3 Centralization now, we'll have the space to double-main New Trails and still have the provinces do a secondary Enforce Justice.
This vote does bring us a little low in Art and Wealth, but Sacred Forest might even count as an engineering project. If not, we have plenty of art-boosters anyway, and have positive wealth income.
[X] [War] Withdraw main forces to defend Redhills, leave vassals and Red Banner
[X] [Boat] New design: Seaworthiness
[X] [Mill] Greater permission (-3 Wealth, -1 Art, -2 Centralization, +3 Econ, increased potential for innovation)
[X] [WC] Lesser assistance (-2 Art, -1 Centralization, Stallions pleased, ???)
-[X] [Main] Kick the Megaproject (Pay 1 Stability, gain another Main action)
[X] [Main] Main Build Mill
[X] [Refugee] They accepted all who came (Chance of stability loss, +2 Econ)
Guaranteed completion of the megaproject = bonus econ, +1 Stability.
Remember, every -1 Centralization that we don't spend is +1 Stability via Enforce Justice. We stay on Restoration, and we are actually in a pretty good position. With -3 Centralization now, we'll have the space to double-main New Trails and still have the provinces do a secondary Enforce Justice.
This vote does bring us a little low in Art and Wealth, but Sacred Forest might even count as an engineering project. If not, we have plenty of art-boosters anyway, and have positive wealth income.
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pblur
Reminiscing over the halcyon days of Ymaryn
- Location
- Lawrence's Wagon
We've never done that though. We've never overflowed Econ into Wealth (probably because we use econ a lot.) So I wouldn't view it that way.
I'd have to work out the math to compare that case though; IIRC secondary black soil is more efficient than Main. I'd have to check though, and I don't have time atm.
- Location
- Hell
Learn to read
Anything else is inference from other Posts AN has made. I was only posting the raw costs and benefits from each action.
Good day to you.
Well War Policy Switches are free. So would not have to do that.
- Location
- USA
[X] [War] Withdraw main forces to defend Redhills, leave vassals and Red Banner
[X] [Boat] New design: Seaworthiness
[X] [Mill] Lesser permission (-3 Wealth, -1 Art, -2 Centralization, +3 Econ, increased potential for innovation)
[X] [WC] Lesser assistance (-2 Art, -1 Centralization, Stallions pleased, ???)
-[X] [Main] Kick the Megaproject (Pay 1 Stability, gain another Main action)
[X] [Main] Main Build Mills
[X] [Refugee] They accepted all who came (Chance of stability loss, +2 Econ)
We need to go down 2 stability to build roads, and both of these seem really interesting, but I really don't want to go down any more then that. Just seems to likely to get things closer to blowing up.
[X] [Boat] New design: Seaworthiness
[X] [Mill] Lesser permission (-3 Wealth, -1 Art, -2 Centralization, +3 Econ, increased potential for innovation)
[X] [WC] Lesser assistance (-2 Art, -1 Centralization, Stallions pleased, ???)
-[X] [Main] Kick the Megaproject (Pay 1 Stability, gain another Main action)
[X] [Main] Main Build Mills
[X] [Refugee] They accepted all who came (Chance of stability loss, +2 Econ)
We need to go down 2 stability to build roads, and both of these seem really interesting, but I really don't want to go down any more then that. Just seems to likely to get things closer to blowing up.
Ghostdevil
The Devil of Ghosts
- Location
- United States
Because those commoners are already completely locked out and not one of these Nobles in the oligarchy have produced a hero in a while, Hell our current line I am talking about is from the Stallions who are most likely PURE heredityBut we already have de facto tanistry, just among all de facto noble lines instead of just one, andonly making it harder for commoner heroes to be king instead of completely locking them out. How is locking out a bunch of possible hero sources in favor of deciding that 3 and a half heroes means the line will always have a good heir as an option supposed to be a good thing? I'm legitimately confused by your argument here
- Location
- The willow crowned hill
- Pronouns
- She/They
[X] [War] Withdraw main forces to defend Redhills, leave vassals and Red Banner
[X] [Boat] New design: Size
[X] [Mill] Greater permission (-3 Wealth, -1 Art, -2 Centralization, +3 Econ, increased potential for innovation)
[X] [WC] Lesser assistance (-2 Art, -1 Centralization, Stallions pleased, ???)
-[X] [Main] Kick the Megaproject (Pay 1 Stability, gain another Main action)
[X] [Main] Main Build Mill
[X] [Refugee] They accepted all who came (Chance of stability loss, +2 Econ)
[X] [Boat] New design: Size
[X] [Mill] Greater permission (-3 Wealth, -1 Art, -2 Centralization, +3 Econ, increased potential for innovation)
[X] [WC] Lesser assistance (-2 Art, -1 Centralization, Stallions pleased, ???)
-[X] [Main] Kick the Megaproject (Pay 1 Stability, gain another Main action)
[X] [Main] Main Build Mill
[X] [Refugee] They accepted all who came (Chance of stability loss, +2 Econ)
Umi-san
Procrastinating.
- Location
- ꙮ
it was just to let people know the stat prices. Chillax.
eh.... I guess because I'd rather not burn econ on festivals. It will depend on where we are.
Interesting. Not really what you said, as infrastructure =/= influence networks, but I get you.
I'd note that our influence networks have probably always been somewhat entrenched against the north. We've only had 2 northern kings, now, after all.
E: Oh. Didn't notice the road comment. We could always specify North for one of the main actions but not the other. They're both Build Roads.
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?
What about when we were maxed on econ before the climate crisis? Pretty sure we were overflowing econ -> wealth all the time then.
Probably since we snubbed two northern heroes seeking the Kingship in a row.
Umi-san
Procrastinating.
- Location
- ꙮ
a while ago, but yeah that would have added to it
Considering that we'll be decreasing our centralization this turn, that apparently the HK and TH will back off if we get a sudden swell of military to spend, our constant worries about the north breaking away, and the fact that next turn our diplomacy will be at 6...
If it's possible does anyone want to aim to integrate the Stallion Tribes next turn?
Granted that would leave us at diplomacy 0, but apparently everyone around us wants us dead as soon as possible so I can't really think of a way that things could get worse for us diplomatically.
[X] [War] Withdraw main forces to defend Redhills, leave vassals and Red Banner
[X] [Boat] New design: Speed
[X] [Mill] Lesser permission (-2 Wealth, -1 Art, -1 Centralization, +2 Econ, potential for innovation)
[X] [WC] Lesser assistance (-2 Art, -1 Centralization, Stallions pleased, ???)
[X] [Main] Sacred Forest Renewal Completion (-2 Econ, -2 Mysticism, -1 Art)
[X] [Refugee] They were helping to create refugees, they should help more (-1 Stability, chance of further loss, +4-5 Econ)
If it's possible does anyone want to aim to integrate the Stallion Tribes next turn?
Granted that would leave us at diplomacy 0, but apparently everyone around us wants us dead as soon as possible so I can't really think of a way that things could get worse for us diplomatically.
[X] [War] Withdraw main forces to defend Redhills, leave vassals and Red Banner
[X] [Boat] New design: Speed
[X] [Mill] Lesser permission (-2 Wealth, -1 Art, -1 Centralization, +2 Econ, potential for innovation)
[X] [WC] Lesser assistance (-2 Art, -1 Centralization, Stallions pleased, ???)
[X] [Main] Sacred Forest Renewal Completion (-2 Econ, -2 Mysticism, -1 Art)
[X] [Refugee] They were helping to create refugees, they should help more (-1 Stability, chance of further loss, +4-5 Econ)
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Umi-san
Procrastinating.
- Location
- ꙮ
Yes. Not next turn, but afterward.
Probably want to combine it with a switch to Trade, as that will help us rebound our diplomacy and pull together the art necessary for the Palace.
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That would bring us to 0 diplo, which increases the chances of our vassals breaking away (noting that the Hat are currently the most likely to try to break away).
If you're worried about stability, Enforce Justice is freaking amazing. We're on Restoration, so the provinces will do that all they can. It'd be best if we could ensure that it is so by lowering Centralization as much as we safely can. Centralization 2 is low, but it's not dangerously so (we sometimes randomly get -1 and need to stay positive). It'll be shooting right back up no matter what we do next turn, so let's use it as much as we safely can.
Especially when it gives us bonus econ to make sure we don't die there.
Especially when it gives us bonus econ to make sure we don't die there.
That's not an option, Lesser permission only has potential, not increased potential and gives -2 Wealth, +2 econ, -1 Centralization.
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- Location
- Philippines
Hmm I wonder if we will get a legacy for taking xohyr if we win.
Umi-san
Procrastinating.
- Location
- ꙮ
hat aren't vassals they're a colony made by us
it doesn't increase chances of peripheral states breaking away, iirc, and might not do that for vassals either. It just makes other polities have less of a reason to not attack us.
- Location
- Canada
[X] [War] Withdraw main forces to defend Redhills, leave vassals and Red Banner
[X] [Boat] New design: Seaworthiness
[X] [Mill] Lesser permission
[X] [WC] Lesser assistance (-2 Art, -1 Centralization, Stallions pleased, ???)
-[X] [Main] Kick the Megaproject (Pay 1 Stability, gain another Main action)
[X] [Main] Main Build Mills
[X] [Refugee] They accepted all whocame (Chance of stability loss, +2 Econ)
[X] [Boat] New design: Seaworthiness
[X] [Mill] Lesser permission
[X] [WC] Lesser assistance (-2 Art, -1 Centralization, Stallions pleased, ???)
-[X] [Main] Kick the Megaproject (Pay 1 Stability, gain another Main action)
[X] [Main] Main Build Mills
[X] [Refugee] They accepted all whocame (Chance of stability loss, +2 Econ)