Are you under the impression that stability loss from refugees isn't a source of corruption, or did you just botch an argument against spending stability at all?
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Paths of Civilization
- Thread starter Academia Nut
- Start date
- Original
Ghostdevil
The Devil of Ghosts
- Location
- United States
Oh your right , mah bad
But its strange to put that in a vote title since it doesn't really mean anything, its to wishy washy to be not IC
- Location
- United States
This quote is from last turn, so that leaves us with 1-2 progress left.
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- Location
- Philippines
The least you guys could do is take the middle refugee option with we have reserves it would make our martial into at least ten which should be enough to deter the HK and TH.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
In this case, no. This vote is a combination of the actions of an individual who does not have all the facts, and the efforts of everyone else as the king has kind of left them to their own devices to a large extent.
Neither side wants to settle.
Rulwyna I was raised by her father fighting in Hatriver, and doing so helped develop horse couriers.
Given that the damage for the turn is done, no
Ah, yes, the Western Wall growing increasingly developed will eventually lead to making the north as a whole more likely to break away.
Alchemy, Forests, and building more libraries.
You are falling behind in terms of religious authority compared to the other pilgrimmage sites.
One more action will complete it.
Yes.
They would be falling back through your territory the whole time.
Kicking lets you gain an additional action because you only need one more action to complete.
- Location
- Hell
Cleaner Tally So people can better see what is leading in each option
Vote Tally : Original - Paths of Civilization | Page 2655 | Sufficient Velocity [Posts: 66365-66567]
##### NetTally 1.9.9
Task: War
[31][War] Withdraw main forces to defend Redhills, leave vassals and Red Banner
[2][War] Withdraw all forces (-1 Legitimacy, Rulwyna becomes queen)
——————————————————————————————————————————————Task: Boat
[23][Boat] New design: Seaworthiness
[7][Boat] New design: Size
[2][Boat] New design: Speed
——————————————————————————————————————————————Task: Mill
[21][Mill] Lesser permission (-2 Wealth, -1 Art, -1 Centralization, +2 Econ, potential for innovation)
[13][Mill] Greater permission (-3 Wealth, -1 Art, -2 Centralization, +3 Econ, increased potential for innovation)
[2][Mill] Denied
——————————————————————————————————————————————Task: WC
[29][WC] Lesser assistance (-2 Art, -1 Centralization, Stallions pleased, ???)
[6][WC] Greater assistance (-3 Art, -2 Centralization, Stallions very pleased, ???)
——————————————————————————————————————————————Task: Main
[35][Main] Sacred Forest Renewal Completion (-2 Econ, -2 Mysticism, -1 Art)
-[6][Main] Kick the Megaproject (Pay 1 Stability, gain another Main action)
[1][Main] Main Build Mill
——————————————————————————————————————————————Task: Refugee
[21][Refugee] They accepted all who came (Chance of stability loss, +2 Econ)
[11][Refugee] They were helping to create refugees, they should help more (-1 Stability, chance of further loss, +4-5 Econ)
[3][Refugee] They should take in as many as they could (-2 Stability, chance of further loss, +6-8 Econ, overcrowding)
Total No. of Voters: 36
Vote Tally : Original - Paths of Civilization | Page 2655 | Sufficient Velocity [Posts: 66365-66567]
##### NetTally 1.9.9
Task: War
[31][War] Withdraw main forces to defend Redhills, leave vassals and Red Banner
[2][War] Withdraw all forces (-1 Legitimacy, Rulwyna becomes queen)
——————————————————————————————————————————————Task: Boat
[23][Boat] New design: Seaworthiness
[7][Boat] New design: Size
[2][Boat] New design: Speed
——————————————————————————————————————————————Task: Mill
[21][Mill] Lesser permission (-2 Wealth, -1 Art, -1 Centralization, +2 Econ, potential for innovation)
[13][Mill] Greater permission (-3 Wealth, -1 Art, -2 Centralization, +3 Econ, increased potential for innovation)
[2][Mill] Denied
——————————————————————————————————————————————Task: WC
[29][WC] Lesser assistance (-2 Art, -1 Centralization, Stallions pleased, ???)
[6][WC] Greater assistance (-3 Art, -2 Centralization, Stallions very pleased, ???)
——————————————————————————————————————————————Task: Main
[35][Main] Sacred Forest Renewal Completion (-2 Econ, -2 Mysticism, -1 Art)
-[6][Main] Kick the Megaproject (Pay 1 Stability, gain another Main action)
[1][Main] Main Build Mill
——————————————————————————————————————————————Task: Refugee
[21][Refugee] They accepted all who came (Chance of stability loss, +2 Econ)
[11][Refugee] They were helping to create refugees, they should help more (-1 Stability, chance of further loss, +4-5 Econ)
[3][Refugee] They should take in as many as they could (-2 Stability, chance of further loss, +6-8 Econ, overcrowding)
Total No. of Voters: 36
Ghostdevil
The Devil of Ghosts
- Location
- United States
I guess the point of tension is that more than a few people think that the very vote is lying to us, not the title of it, nor the IC part, but the vote itself is lying
The Sandman
So Zetta Slowpoke
- Location
- Wherever I am, which isn't where I'm not
We don't want to risk collapsing our civilization with a stabhit when we already want to take a stabhit to kick the megaproject. That's why we want the small refugee influx option.
Reminder: we're still eating random Econ loss. We need end turn Econ of 5 to be safe(Double Main Trails -2, Expand Econ +2) next turn
Factor in random loss. We can die from Econ loss as well as cent
Guile
Having a really great time right now
Do you really think we'll be able to take any actions we want next turn? That we can afford to take a bunch of Trails to get our Cent back up with a 2- or 3-front war on the horizon and lowlanders gaining the secret of iron if we fail there?
Do you REALLY want to put us 1 Stability point away from exploding, with plague and multi-front wars on the horizon and an Intrigue hero? Why.
A good benefit of taking the three centralization hit now is that it can potentially reduce some negatives next turn given it's highly likely we're going to take double main trails. This automatically gives us +2 centralization which leaves us at 4 which is just below the yellow mark - which is fine - but it also ensures that just in case we get additional centralization from the synergy of double main trails (and the innovation follow up implied) it should only push us into yellow centralization instead of all the way into red.
Side note - I dislike the options going to maximum refugee's. I'd much rather save the stability so we have a larger buffer, go double main trails and secondary switch to balanced next turn, then the following turn start the palace and pump the stability into there given the palace has a good chance of resolving this crisis via providing additional administrative and logistical innovation where as more refugee's in this current time only makes it more perilous if we have people coming in who don't have the institutional knowledge of the People's laws and customs.
That'd be why I changed my vote to include kicking for a Main Build Mills, yes.
- Location
- Australia
But what if Rulwyna II was malevolent? Or the intrigue hero was non-Ymaryn?
I am aware that stability loss from refugees is a source of corruption. I just think that in that case it's worth it, since it reinforces and advances Cosmopolitan Acceptance, but for merely getting more Economy it's not worth it. That said, enough corruption is generated by going into negative Stability that taking in enough refugees to take us there should be done carefully, with a Restore Order prepared to be used.
No, you see.
Centralization is explicitly needed to keep us safe here. Too much is bad, -2 is cutting it close and only even remotely sensible because they help put out some fires.
- Location
- Philippines
See guys this is why we should raise religious authority but considering that the other pilgrimage sites are theocracies it is still quite an achievement to be able to compete against them.
We're real short on econ slots at the moment. Go with the Build Mills option.
- Pronouns
- They/Them
Expand economy won't work if we're taking in more refugees than the bare minimum, since our expansion slots are fairly low. If you want more econ build mills is better.
Umi-san
Procrastinating.
- Location
- ꙮ
1) = more econ, innovation. Less wealth, centralization 2.
2) = cent 3.
Going super low in centralization has been stated to make us more fragile.
@pblur in case u didn't read it. I think you were the one talking about not doing the WC thing? Ugh... WC... so weird to be using that again.
pblur
Reminiscing over the halcyon days of Ymaryn
- Location
- Lawrence's Wagon
Alright, with WoG on the completion:
[X] [War] Withdraw main forces to defend Redhills, leave vassals and Red Banner
[X] [Boat] New design: Seaworthiness
[X] [Mill] Greater permission (-3 Wealth, -1 Art, -2 Centralization, +3 Econ, increased potential for innovation)
[X] [WC] Lesser assistance (-2 Art, -1 Centralization, Stallions pleased, ???)
-[X] [Main] Kick the Megaproject (Pay 1 Stability, gain another Main action)
[X] [Main] Main Build Mills
[X] [Refugee] They accepted all who came (Chance of stability loss, +2 Econ)
This is simply mathematically better than more refugees + megaproject. We lose 1 Stability either way, this way we gain 3 Econ, with refugees we gain 2-3 econ, and lose 2-3 econ slots.
[X] [War] Withdraw main forces to defend Redhills, leave vassals and Red Banner
[X] [Boat] New design: Seaworthiness
[X] [Mill] Greater permission (-3 Wealth, -1 Art, -2 Centralization, +3 Econ, increased potential for innovation)
[X] [WC] Lesser assistance (-2 Art, -1 Centralization, Stallions pleased, ???)
-[X] [Main] Kick the Megaproject (Pay 1 Stability, gain another Main action)
[X] [Main] Main Build Mills
[X] [Refugee] They accepted all who came (Chance of stability loss, +2 Econ)
This is simply mathematically better than more refugees + megaproject. We lose 1 Stability either way, this way we gain 3 Econ, with refugees we gain 2-3 econ, and lose 2-3 econ slots.
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- Location
- Voidbetweenstars
when we finish the project this turn we will get 1 stab.
This is a fucking long-term shiny. Drop it and pay attention to surviving.
pblur
Reminiscing over the halcyon days of Ymaryn
- Location
- Lawrence's Wagon
Yeah, but AN settled my concern about it a few pages ago.
- Location
- Canada
Ah yes forgot about the econ slots.