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Paths of Civilization

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Andres110 said:
Kicking isn't to complete the megaproject. What kicking does is give us another option ON TOP of completing the megaproject. Working on it REGARDLESS of whether we kick it or not will complete it.
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No, it won't. One more action puts us at 9 out of a possible 10 needed. We don't KNOW one action will suffice.
 
George said:
I think Greater Assistance to the Stallions is extremely dangerous; developing their infrastructure gives them the means to rebel.
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It will help in the short term but in three turns by word of AN they will start to have thoughts of breaking away again
Academia Nut said:
Near term it should placate them quite well, but you should definitely move to improve the situation within the next three turns so that the next generation doesn't feel neglected and have more infrastructure. However, note that they will develop this anyway, this just helps them do it faster.
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[X] [War] Withdraw main forces to defend Redhills, leave vassals and Red Banner
[X] [Boat] New design: Seaworthiness
[X] [Mill] Lesser permission (-2 Wealth, -1 Art, -1 Centralization, +2 Econ, potential for innovation)
[X] [WC] Lesser assistance (-2 Art, -1 Centralization, Stallions pleased, ???)
[X] [Main] Sacred Forest Renewal Completion (-2 Econ, -2 Mysticism, -1 Art)
[X] [Refugee] They accepted all who came (Chance of stability loss, +2 Econ)

A nice slow drop by 2 points which lets us stay in our sweet spot of 3 cent and lets us double main trails soon enough.
 
pblur said:
No, it won't. One more action puts us at 9 out of a possible 10 needed. We don't KNOW one action will suffice.
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We DO know. Read the action. It says Completion. There is no question at all of whether it'll be completed. The only question is if we want another action or not for a Stability cost. It's still 1 action being spent on the megaproject either way.
 
Concho117 said:
What's the difference between this:

1)
[War] Withdraw main forces to defend Redhills, leave vassals and Red Banner
[Boat] New design: Seaworthiness
[Mill] Greater permission (-3 Wealth, -1 Art, -2 Centralization, +3 Econ, increased potential for innovation)
[WC] Lesser assistance (-2 Art, -1 Centralization, Stallions pleased, ???)
[Main] Sacred Forest Renewal Completion (-2 Econ, -2 Mysticism, -1 Art)
[Refugee] They accepted all who came (Chance of stability loss, +2 Econ)

and this:

2)
[War] Withdraw main forces to defend Redhills, leave vassals and Red Banner
[Boat] New design: Seaworthiness
[X] [Mill] Lesser permission (-2 Wealth, -1 Art, -1 Centralization, +2 Econ, potential for innovation)
[WC] Lesser assistance (-2 Art, -1 Centralization, Stallions pleased, ???)
[Main] Sacred Forest Renewal Completion (-2 Econ, -2 Mysticism, -1 Art)
[Refugee] They accepted all who came (Chance of stability loss, +2 Econ)

In terms of end results?
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1) is 1 Cent closer to having the People explode into warring city states. Both are - in my own opinion - foolish votes for that reason.
Glassware said:
Can you imagine how miserable she'd have been as puppet king? Poor kid. At least now she can claim the throne on her own merits.

[X] [War] Withdraw main forces to defend Redhills, leave vassals and Red Banner
[X] [Boat] New design: Size
[X] [Mill] Greater permission (-3 Wealth, -1 Art, -2 Centralization, +3 Econ, increased potential for innovation)
[X] [WC] Lesser assistance (-2 Art, -1 Centralization, Stallions pleased, ???)
[X] [Main] Sacred Forest Renewal Completion (-2 Econ, -2 Mysticism, -1 Art)
[X] [Refugee] They should take in as many as they could (-2 Stability, chance of further loss, +6-8 Econ, overcrowding)

+7-9 econ will massively shoot up our military, giving us the best chance of discouraging the Thunder Speakers and Highland Kingdom from having a go at us. The overcrowding is bad but manageable; we will continue to gain econ slots next turn thanks to our true cities. Stability from completing the sacred forest will leave us at 0 in the best case scenario.
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... You realize we would then have a 50/50 chance of exploding, right? -2 Stability with chance of further loss.

And then with -3 Centralization, we'd also be on the edge of exploding a different way, into warring city-states.
 
Hangwind said:
Look, guys, we need to push now. WOG is that we're going to be facing some nasty stuff soon unless we get really lucky. This is what we need-a bit of breathing room. Are all the refugees going to cause problems? Sure. Is resource loss on inventions going to hurt? Sure. Will low Centralization make things dangerous? Sure. But without pushing things as high as we can while we can, we're certain to fracture.
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Very true, but i rather not risk pushing too hard to snap the red tape. It's the only thing holding our nation now.
 
Andres110 said:
The only question is if we want another action or not for a Stability cost.
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Note that 1 Stability for a [main] Build Mills or Expand Economy is better than we get for 1 stability worth of refugees.
Adhoc vote count started by Candesce on Jul 2, 2017 at 11:00 PM, finished with 66560 posts and 35 votes.
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[X] [War] Withdraw main forces to defend Redhills, leave vassals and Red Banner
[X] [Boat] New design: Seaworthiness
[X] [Mill] Lesser permission (-2 Wealth, -1 Art, -1 Centralization, +2 Econ, potential for innovation)
[X] [WC] Lesser assistance (-2 Art, -1 Centralization, Stallions pleased, ???)
[X] [Main] Sacred Forest Renewal Completion (-2 Econ, -2 Mysticism, -1 Art)
[X] [Refugee] They were helping to create refugees, they should help more (-1 Stability, chance of further loss, +4-5 Econ)
 
Academia Nut said:
[] [Main] Sacred Forest Renewal Completion (-2 Econ, -2 Mysticism, -1 Art)
-[] [Main] Kick the Megaproject (Pay 1 Stability, gain another Main action)
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pblur said:
No, it won't. One more action puts us at 9 out of a possible 10 needed. We don't KNOW one action will suffice.
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Seriously, are you just refusing to read the options?
pblur said:
[X] [Main] Sacred Forest Renewal Completion (-2 Econ, -2 Mysticism, -1 Art)
-[X] [Main] Kick the Megaproject (Pay 1 Stability, gain another Main action)
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It's even in your own vote!

That said, thanks for pointing that out @Andres110 I didn't notice our ability to kick to gain another action...
 
C'mon guys we can afford to send major support to the stallions and we are planning to make trails anyway so it should be doable to create infrastructure before the three turns are up.
 
Andres110 said:
We DO know. Read the action. It says Completion. There is no question at all of whether it'll be completed. The only question is if we want another action or not for a Stability cost. It's still 1 action being spent on the megaproject either way.
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Look at the context:
Academia Nut said:
The Sacred Forest Renewal seems to be on the verge of completion, but can the People afford it?
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"Seems to be" is not the same as "is"
 
Sorry to keep pinging you, @Academia Nut, but one more thought I had: if we go with the "pull out our own dudes while leaving the vassals and mercs" option, would we be able to get passage through the HK and/or TH territories for our return home? Idea is to do a carrot/stick thing, where the carrot is our soldiers leaving behind Xohyssiri loot in the brothels, taverns, gambling dens and marketplaces throughout their territory, and the stick is to make a point that our troops are well-armed and well-trained, with a side order of "we heard you were thinking about starting some shit, so don't think you can surprise us with a backstab".
 
[X] [War] Withdraw main forces to defend Redhills, leave vassals and Red Banner
[X] [Boat] New design: Seaworthiness
[X] [Mill] Greater permission (-3 Wealth, -1 Art, -2 Centralization, +3 Econ, increased potential for innovation)
[X] [WC] Lesser assistance (-2 Art, -1 Centralization, Stallions pleased, ???)
[X] [Main] Sacred Forest Renewal Completion (-2 Econ, -2 Mysticism, -1 Art)
-[X] [Main] Kick the Megaproject (Pay 1 Stability, gain another Main action)
[X] [Refugee] They accepted all who came (Chance of stability loss, +2 Econ)

Going to go with the kick. I really would like to go with the second Refugee option. We would need it for Trails next turn.
 
Guile said:
... You realize we would then have a 50/50 chance of exploding, right? -2 Stability with chance of further loss.

And then with -3 Centralization, we'd also be on the edge of exploding a different way, into warring city-states.
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We're at 1 stability currently. -2 from that puts us at -1, with a chance of further loss to put us at -2. Then the megaproject completes to put us at -1 in the worst case.
 
pblur said:
Look at the context:

"Seems to be" is not the same as "is"
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Sorry, but that's a shitty argument since that is said in a POV post from someone that isn't involved with the megaproject, that's Shamans and Priests and Rulwyna isn't a mysticism hero
Look I know language is hard (not sarcastic it is hard) but when a non pro is asking about something they don't know and a pro answers then they will think it SEEMS to be.
Sry if that's hard to understand as I said language is hard
 
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Candesce said:
Note that 1 Stability for a [main] Build Mills or Expand Economy is better than we get for 1 stability worth of refugees.
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That's correct, but you're thinking in pure numbers. Stability loss - especially if we go into the negatives - results in corruption. Frankly, we don't need it and until this whole crisis arc is over we shouldn't so freely spend Stability like that.

Also, bringing in more refugees makes progress towards evolving Cosmopolitan Acceptance, so saving Stability to take in more refugees has an advantage over spending Stability on more Economy-efficient activities.
 
Okay, enough of this.

@Academia Nut People are confused about whether or not kicking allows us to take an additional action or is done as a 'definitely complete' the megaproject. Please clear things up.
 
[X] [Main] Sacred Forest Renewal Completion (-2 Econ, -2 Mysticism, -1 Art)
[X] [War] Withdraw main forces to defend Redhills, leave vassals and Red Banner
[X] [Boat] New design: Seaworthiness
[X] [WC] Lesser assistance (-2 Art, -1 Centralization, Stallions pleased, ???)
[X] [Refugee] They accepted all who came (Chance of stability loss, +2 Econ)
[X] [Mill] Greater permission (-3 Wealth, -1 Art, -2 Centralization, +3 Econ, increased potential for innovation)

Sadly I can't stay(damn fool phone is dying and I have no charger >.>), and can't really do more than quick math for this vote.

I think this stallion vote is risky, buuuuut... ehh I'll think about it. One part says leave them, another says take the risk.

Let's get this dang fool mega done. :p

Also Intrigue heroes are broken as heck and pure awesome in human form. Please don't nerf.

So glad the warnings were given. Looks like we can squeeze through.
 
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