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Paths of Civilization

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[X] [War] Withdraw main forces to defend Redhills, leave vassals and Red Banner
[X] [Boat] New design: Size
[X] [Mill] Lesser permission (-2 Wealth, -1 Art, -1 Centralization, +2 Econ, potential for innovation)
[X] [WC] Lesser assistance (-2 Art, -1 Centralization, Stallions pleased, ???)
[X] [Main] Sacred Forest Renewal Completion (-2 Econ, -2 Mysticism, -1 Art)
[X] [Refugee] They should take in as many as they could (-2 Stability, chance of further loss, +6-8 Econ, overcrowding)

Total costs:
-4 Art
-2 Cent
-2 Myst
-2 Wealth
-2.5 Stab

For:
  • +8-10 Econ when we are currently low and in desperate need of resources for the coming turns (Palaces and Roads aren't cheap!)
  • Premptively lowers Cent so we can build roads next turn if possible actions are available
  • Maintains a Token force for our vassal while defending our flanks
  • Hopefully (Fingers Crossed!) finishes our Rank 2 Forest megaproject which will hopefully immunize us against Climate change.
  • keep the ST content and hopefully not eager to tear at our government considering we are very fragile right now
  • Get Size to raise our bulk shipping to further reduce our logistics issues at the coastlines so we can redistribute our wagon trains.
  • Get our mills online as it seems we are going to have Tech our way out of this for the moment.
 
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pblur said:
On the basis of the WoGs from last update that giving the north goodies NOW would actually empower them to break away. I THINK that will be more important than them being 'happy' in terms of their likelihood to revolt.

The fact they aren't running this through the official government channels only reinforces that concern for me.
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Yes, but note AN saying they will develop this stuff anyway and helping the ST will help their civility with the south in the short term. I'm guessing that sending minimal aid will at least let us know what the hell they're doing whereas if we refuse all aid it may be a secret they use to economically fuel their secession.
 
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Karugus said:
The Xoh are sieged and are for all intensive purposes incapable of projecting any meaningful force correct? Even if they do have a military left, they can't afford to spare the manpower from repairing the fields or they'll suffer mass starvation and unsupported charioteers aren't really a threat to the Red Banner.

If our Chief is truly really good at martial, and we have enough evidence to be certain the TS and the HK are conspiring against us- what's stopping him from wheeling his armies around and slamming into the HK from the East? Even if he can't decisively sack the fertile flood plains, that puts a huge Ymaryn army that the HK can't afford to leave in being as they assault Redhill.
And if that's the case the Lowland minors and the HH can support Redhill against the TS.
Yeah, it involves convincing the King to quit the siege, but for other incredibly lucrative targets that he doesn't have to siege.
It just feels weird that the Ymaryn, who are something of a military juggernaut at this point, and who have an intelligent and aggressive military commander are going to sit back and let their enemies launch a coordinated assault when those two enemies are on opposite sides of the theater of war.
I get it kinda runs counter to voter sensibilities and general Ymaryn defensive mentality, but this is exactly IC for Ork!King if the evidence was remotely there. Hell, he probably wouldn't even demand that much proof.
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You are assuming intelligence travels fast over a land of poor roads and seasonal flood, and that our hero king is going to abandon his agenda of destroying baby killers with hearsay of HK/TS moving to attack us.

Remember that it takes a long time to move to attack either nations and we do not have casus bellis to attack them.
 
[X] [Main] Sacred Forest Renewal Completion (-2 Econ, -2 Mysticism, -1 Art)
[X] [Mill] Greater permission (-3 Wealth, -1 Art, -2 Centralization, +3 Econ, increased potential for innovation)
[X] [WC] Lesser assistance (-2 Art, -1 Centralization, Stallions pleased, ???)
[X] [War] Withdraw main forces to defend Redhills, leave vassals and Red Banner

Holding off on boats and CA
 
Academia Nut said:
He will command the Red Banner and the vassal forces unless everything is withdrawn, which is why he has to die for everything to be withdrawn. Vassals will fall back to their own territory to defend against the Xoh retaliation.



Near term it should placate them quite well, but you should definitely move to improve the situation within the next three turns so that the next generation doesn't feel neglected and have more infrastructure. However, note that they will develop this anyway, this just helps them do it faster.
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Well then!
[] [War] Withdraw main forces to defend Redhills, leave vassals and Red Banner
[] [Boat] New design: Seaworthiness
[] [Mill] Greater permission (-3 Wealth, -1 Art, -2 Centralization, +3 Econ, increased potential for innovation)
[] [WC] Lesser assistance (-2 Art, -1 Centralization, Stallions pleased, ???)
[] [Main] Sacred Forest Renewal Completion (-2 Econ, -2 Mysticism, -1 Art)
[] [Refugee] They accepted all who came (Chance of stability loss, +2 Econ)
 
Basically, helping the Stallions with this will give us a three-turn window of opportunity to address the problem. Taking -2 to centralization to be able to afford a double-main New Trails is critical to being able to address the long-term problem.
 
The Sandman said:
@Academia Nut, is it reasonable to say that the current refugees are mainly Xohyssiri and that the ones we don't take will settle down in the Highland Kingdom and Thunder Horse territory?
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Former Xoh subjects are a large part, but there is also a plague ravaging the region so there are also people fleeing from all over, including the Highlanders and the Thunder Speakers.

SpeckofStardust said:
:sad:
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Fun fact, the vote about how Rulwyna I was to be raised was also a vote about how she would take over. She could have been a mafia don if raised in the city, become a priestess and converted the People to a theocracy if sent to the temple, or a conquering warlord if sent to the Stallions.

Abby Normal said:
How much do the Western Wall count as the north, as far as rebellion decisions go, given that they're rapidly creating infrastructure with their actions?
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They would either join the Stallions or become independent if the Stallions broke away.

Umi-san said:
Will displeasing the ST by not providing aid make them more likely to want to depart?
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Absolutely. If they developed their find on their own they would also have a stronger sense of "We don't need the south".
 
@Academia Nut A few questions.

Is there any info on the properties of what the ST have found?

How likely is it that getting Seaworthy vessels will mitigate/remove the disrupted trade status?

How are the TS doing?
 
SpeckofStardust said:
:sad:
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Can you imagine how miserable she'd have been as puppet king? Poor kid. At least now she can claim the throne on her own merits.

[X] [War] Withdraw main forces to defend Redhills, leave vassals and Red Banner
[X] [Boat] New design: Size
[X] [Mill] Greater permission (-3 Wealth, -1 Art, -2 Centralization, +3 Econ, increased potential for innovation)
[X] [WC] Lesser assistance (-2 Art, -1 Centralization, Stallions pleased, ???)
[X] [Main] Sacred Forest Renewal Completion (-2 Econ, -2 Mysticism, -1 Art)
[X] [Refugee] They should take in as many as they could (-2 Stability, chance of further loss, +6-8 Econ, overcrowding)

+7-9 econ will massively shoot up our military, giving us the best chance of discouraging the Thunder Speakers and Highland Kingdom from having a go at us. The overcrowding is bad but manageable; we will continue to gain econ slots next turn thanks to our true cities. Stability from completing the sacred forest will leave us at 0 in the best case scenario.

In case the above is losing because people once again don't want to take advantage of good old Cosmopolitan Acceptance,

[X] [Refugee] They were helping to create refugees, they should help more (-1 Stability, chance of further loss, +4-5 Econ)
 
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Academia Nut said:
War Preparations
[] [War] Hope the king wins quickly
[] [War] Withdraw main forces to defend Redhills, leave vassals and Red Banner
[] [War] Withdraw all forces (-1 Legitimacy, Rulwyna becomes queen)
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@Academia Nut - is there a reason negotiated settlement isn't one of the ways we can end this conflict, as it means we can disengage from the conflict with the Xohsiyrri (and from their traits, it's quite likely they're liable to keep their word particularly if they believe this war is any indication of how a future conflict would go) and pull back and consolidate, given the information about the Thunder Speakers and High Kingdom should increase their threat which the King should know about.

A peace settlement should also mean that you can acquire various things, whether that's just some stats from tribute payment, technology, favorable trade rights, or perhaps a changing of some laws given they are quite literally being sieged; and given it's a true city with the density of population that implies, their lack of food production causing starvation, and general unhygienic and unhealthy condition it must be horrendous there. OOC it would also be an incredibly fun vote to have given the nature of how these types of votes go, and the interest that they pick up.
Academia Nut said:
Prestige 30
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Didn't you previously mention we'd go to Dominant in Pilgrimage with some more prestige, and we've gained quite a bit since then.
 
[X] [War] Withdraw main forces to defend Redhills, leave vassals and Red Banner
[X] [Boat] New design: Seaworthiness
[X] [Mill] Greater permission (-3 Wealth, -1 Art, -2 Centralization, +3 Econ, increased potential for innovation)
[X] [WC] Lesser assistance (-2 Art, -1 Centralization, Stallions pleased, ???)
[X] [Main] Sacred Forest Renewal Completion (-2 Econ, -2 Mysticism, -1 Art)
[X] [Refugee] They accepted all who came (Chance of stability loss, +2 Econ)
 
Academia Nut said:
Former Xoh subjects are a large part, but there is also a plague ravaging the region so there are also people fleeing from all over, including the Highlanders and the Thunder Speakers.



Fun fact, the vote about how Rulwyna I was to be raised was also a vote about how she would take over. She could have been a mafia don if raised in the city, become a priestess and converted the People to a theocracy if sent to the temple, or a conquering warlord if sent to the Stallions.



They would either join the Stallions or become independent if the Stallions broke away.



Absolutely. If they developed their find on their own they would also have a stronger sense of "We don't need the south".
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So, what actually won? I don't remember the "How is she raised" vote happening. Though finding out she turned out to be literally The Deep State in the end is hilarious.
 
Concho117 said:
Can we get numbers on this?
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Someone doing numbers would be nice; I'm too new to the system to know all relevant factors.
The primary points I'm considering are doing Double Main Trails next turn at -1 Econ per Main and then wanting to start work on the Grand Palace the next turn which costs 1 Econ and 1 Art per action.
I also don't know if Econ is one of the stats where things are worse if it's at 0.
 
Academia Nut said:
Fun fact, the vote about how Rulwyna I was to be raised was also a vote about how she would take over. She could have been a mafia don if raised in the city, become a priestess and converted the People to a theocracy if sent to the temple, or a conquering warlord if sent to the Stallions.
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O.O... Wow BULLET FUCKING DODGED :p
 
VoidZero said:
You are assuming intelligence travels fast over a land of poor roads and seasonal flood, and that our hero king is going to abandon his agenda of destroying baby killers with hearsay of HK/TS moving to attack us.

Remember that it takes a long time to move to attack either nations and we do not have casus bellis to attack them.
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We barely had one against the Xoh, and we have horseback couriers, we literally have the fastest transmission of info in the region right now. Fast enough that we could reveal that information than the TS and HK could move.

As for evidence, Rulwyna is the golden child, if she returns out of the aether bringing this kind of news- it's going to have far more legitimacy to it than mere hearsay normally deserves.
 
Alectai said:
So, what actually won? I don't remember the "How is she raised" vote happening. Though finding out she turned out to be literally The Deep State in the end is hilarious.
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We got the nomad king from the north. The baby was kicked between families to control her families' resources.
 
pblur said:
No, I'm not. Like I said, I'm including a bad roll on climate damage giving -1 stability next turn.
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bluefur87 said:
Compared to what most people are voting for, at -1 Stability as worst case scenario and 3 legitimacy, it's the same. Hopefully we're all smart enough to take no more than 2 cent drop, because doing more than that would be disastrous. Even then, we're going to gain stability from the megaproject finishing.
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It's worth noting you're wrong. The stability roll of next turn isn't going to come before the increase in the megaproject stability at the second half of this turn. Only a critical failure would stop that, which could be mitigated with a cunning and wise hero.
 
Alectai said:
So, what actually won? I don't remember the "How is she raised" vote happening. Though finding out she turned out to be literally The Deep State in the end is hilarious.
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That was her grandmother. She ended up raised by her father general on the battlefield.
 
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